Thoughts on Measles outbreak?

Hopefully you also discourage your children from bringing your grandkids to the playground, participating in dance/sports or going to Disney, since they would then be a public health hazard.

And since so many others have followed suit, they would also face the very real possibility of contracting an illness due to not being vaccinated.

The only good that may come from this outbreak is hopefully waking some up to the need of vaccinations.
 
Our state still has religious and personal exemptions for opting out for public school. Our state is trying to remove those exemptions. I was watching the local government channel last night and the arguments in favor of being able to send their unvaccinated children to public school were terrifying; no basis in science at all.

Since the state is not taking away the choice to vaccinate, only the choice to attend public school, it looks like thankfully, the measure is going to pass. I am hoping to see more and more restrictions on unvaccinated children participating in group activities.

No problem if some don't want to vaccinate. But stay away from society as the WHO considers them one of the top 10 Global Health Threats.
 
You can still get the chicken pox if you've had the vaccine (about 2% will), but it should be a very mild case. But if you do get it, then you can get shingles.

My son is fully vaccinated and he was one of the 2% who still got chicken pox and yes, it was a very mild case. I've never been confirmed to have had chicken pox and I was born before the vaccine so when DS had them I got checked and I have an immunity likely from a very mild unknown case of it. My doctor recommended that I get the shingles vaccine at that time which I did, although he never mentioned anything about being too young to get the vaccine.


Before the transplant, did he have chemo? Chemo will kill the immune system, and so you'd need new vaccines, when it is safe.

Interesting, I've had chemo and none of my oncologists nor family doctors ever mentioned that I should get re-vaccinated.
 
Feeling extremely bad for a flight attendant who is fighting for her life because of measles at this very moment. She is in a coma. She was flying from NYC to Israel, I believe, and a passenger exposed her to it. Measles can kill.
 

Feeling extremely bad for a flight attendant who is fighting for her life because of measles at this very moment. She is in a coma. She was flying from NYC to Israel, I believe, and a passenger exposed her to it. Measles can kill.
Would like this post, but seems wrong to like a post where someone is fighting for their life. It does underscore the need for vaccinations
 
Interesting, I've had chemo and none of my oncologists nor family doctors ever mentioned that I should get re-vaccinated.

Chemo before a bone marrow transplant is to wipe out the old to make way for the new - you can have different levels of chemo, so I'm guessing yours wasn't to wipe out your whole system. But I'd ask your doctor, just in case.
 
Epstein Barr. Can we please get a vaccine for that one soon?

Dd has something odd right now. Waiting on test results.

Symptoms point to Epstein Barr or Lupus- which in my reading, seem related.

Epstein Barr can do a lot of lingering damage.
 
Hrhpd, I understand. It was no the World News tonight but this popped up in my feed. https://kdvr.com/2019/04/17/israeli...oyhbEE1KUmgZUdLvO3z5z9NIa7tnFXccaDr_8cPZN-Dzs


So so sad. And, so unnecessary. While I do not wish death on anyone (and clearly not on those who have tried to do the right thing by being vaccinated), I do think some deaths is what it is going to take to wake those strident anti-vaxxers up about how these are NOT some "innocent" diseases that they can "fight off" with herbs and oils. Their children can DIE. Of course, they may be so far in denial that not even that will work. SMH.
 
So so sad. And, so unnecessary. While I do not wish death on anyone (and clearly not on those who have tried to do the right thing by being vaccinated), I do think some deaths is what it is going to take to wake those strident anti-vaxxers up about how these are NOT some "innocent" diseases that they can "fight off" with herbs and oils. Their children can DIE. Of course, they may be so far in denial that not even that will work. SMH.
(Snark On)But, hey, look on the "bright side"... if she survives she'll have "lifetime immunity" from Measles. She may end up with permanent neurological damage, but she won't have to give any money to those greedy vaccine makers!(Snark Off) In reality, this case perfectly exhibits how someone's choice may end up impacting others with serious consequences.

Regarding the Measles outbreak here in Michigan, Dr. David Gorski, who teaches Oncology at Wayne State U. and is a surgeon in Detroit, has an interesting article about the contrast in the outbreaks among the Orthodox Jewish communities here in Michigan and the one in New York. It also addresses the misconception that vaccination is against Orthodox Jewish rabbinical law. In fact, low vaccination rates are a matter of practice, not policy, within those groups. The same is true of the Amish.

Also, it makes me fume that the anti-vaxxers just keep coming up with new ways to spread their misinformation and sow confusion. Last month, anti-vax rock star Robert F. Kennedy Jr., was suddenly hit with a new notion after reading a CBS article about the large jump in depression and anxiety found in teenagers in recent years. He reasoned that it wasn't the "shifting cultural trends over the past decade, including increased use of electronic communications and digital media" and decreasing time spent face-to-face with peers in social settings that mental health experts cite in the CBS piece as the most likely primary root causes. Nope, all that was brushed aside by RFK Jr. Because if you've followed the anti-vax crowd long enough, you'll know that it's ALWAYS because of vaccines. He opined:
"@CBSNews reports sharp unexplained rises in #depression + #anxiety in American teens. Shouldn't we ask whether these trends are associated with the neurotoxic aluminum we are giving young teens in Gardasil #vaccine?"
 
(Snark On)But, hey, look on the "bright side"... if she survives she'll have "lifetime immunity" from Measles. She may end up with permanent neurological damage, but she won't have to give any money to those greedy vaccine makers!(Snark Off) In reality, this case perfectly exhibits how someone's choice may end up impacting others with serious consequences.

Regarding the Measles outbreak here in Michigan, Dr. David Gorski, who teaches Oncology at Wayne State U. and is a surgeon in Detroit, has an interesting article about the contrast in the outbreaks among the Orthodox Jewish communities here in Michigan and the one in New York. It also addresses the misconception that vaccination is against Orthodox Jewish rabbinical law. In fact, low vaccination rates are a matter of practice, not policy, within those groups. The same is true of the Amish.

Also, it makes me fume that the anti-vaxxers just keep coming up with new ways to spread their misinformation and sow confusion. Last month, anti-vax rock star Robert F. Kennedy Jr., was suddenly hit with a new notion after reading a CBS article about the large jump in depression and anxiety found in teenagers in recent years. He reasoned that it wasn't the "shifting cultural trends over the past decade, including increased use of electronic communications and digital media" and decreasing time spent face-to-face with peers in social settings that mental health experts cite in the CBS piece as the most likely primary root causes. Nope, all that was brushed aside by RFK Jr. Because if you've followed the anti-vax crowd long enough, you'll know that it's ALWAYS because of vaccines. He opined:
Here’s one thing I would like explained - why are toxic heavy metals including mercury (thimerosal) used in vaccines? There has to be some alternative. 20 years ago when it was emerging as an issue (moreso in dental work but also in relations to vaccines) we paid OOP for single dose vials to avoid it. At the time our doctor had no real explanation.

I’m not asserting that it causes any specific condition like autism or depression but those elements simply do not belong in our bodies.
 
Here’s one thing I would like explained - why are toxic heavy metals including mercury (thimerosal) used in vaccines? There has to be some alternative. 20 years ago when it was emerging as an issue (moreso in dental work but also in relations to vaccines) we paid OOP for single dose vials to avoid it. At the time our doctor had no real explanation.

I’m not asserting that it causes any specific condition like autism or depression but those elements simply do not belong in our bodies.

Thimerosal was used in multi-vial vaccinations to prevent bacteria from entering the vial once it was opened. If bacteria entered the vial and was injected into the patient, it is considered lethal. Multi-vial are still used for things like the flu shot because of demand, but aren't for child vaccines.
 
Thimerosal was used in multi-vial vaccinations to prevent bacteria from entering the vial once it was opened. If bacteria entered the vial and was injected into the patient, it is considered lethal. Multi-vial are still used for things like the flu shot because of demand, but aren't for child vaccines.
Of course I understand the need for preservatives - just not why they need to be neurotoxic heavy metals.
 
Of course I understand the need for preservatives - just not why they need to be neurotoxic heavy metals.

It's not mercury, it's an organic compound that contains mercury and studies have concluded that the trace amounts are not neurotoxic. There are other preservatives, but the fear is that it would modify the efficacy of the injection.
 
Here’s one thing I would like explained - why are toxic heavy metals including mercury (thimerosal) used in vaccines? There has to be some alternative. 20 years ago when it was emerging as an issue (moreso in dental work but also in relations to vaccines) we paid OOP for single dose vials to avoid it. At the time our doctor had no real explanation.

I’m not asserting that it causes any specific condition like autism or depression but those elements simply do not belong in our bodies.
I think that yours is a reasonable question, but there's some good answers. First of all, short of things like Plutonium, nothing is categorically "toxic." Toxicity is a function of two things: the substance and its concentration. Even water is toxic to humans at a high enough concentration. This overall notion is often referred to as The First Rule of Toxicology: "The dose makes the poison."

Secondly, the toxicity of a given element varies greatly based on its molecular form. Consider these two elements: Chlorine and Sodium. Both of these elements are pretty nasty substances on their own. Chlorine gas is very poisonous to humans and is banned as a chemical weapon. Sodium is a volatile metal that reacts violently with water to produce highly caustic lye. No one in their right minds would ingest either elemental Chlorine or Sodium. But when combined, the situation is totally different. You get Sodium Chloride, AKA "table salt". While, as with anything, you can die from eating too much table salt. We're talking an orders of magnitude difference in toxicity between the elemental forms of Sodium and Chlorine and table salt. But just like RFK Jr. claiming that a vaccine contains a "neurotoxin", I can claim that the stuff you season your ear of sweet corn with contains a "deadly chemical weapon."

Regarding mercury, it is sometimes used in multi-dose vials of vaccines to prevent fungal contamination of vials once the seal is broken when they start using the vial. If you'll recall, a few years ago there were a large number of people who were sickened or killed due to contamination of vials of steroids produced by a "compounding pharmacy" with poor sterile conditions. Mercury-containing Thiomersal is used, in very low concentrations, in order to prevent such tragedies. But the mercury is not elemental, it's in a compound (like my salt example): ethylmercury. While ethylmercury isn't nearly as "safe" as table salt and is hazardous at high enough levels, it's no where nearly as dangerous as the other common mercury compound: Methylmercury. Methylmercury is some pretty nasty stuff. One key difference is that our bodies have a very hard time removing methylmercury from our blood and tissues. Because of this methylmercury is considered a "bioaccumulative environmental toxicant." Again, Thiomersal doesn't contain the methylmercury form of mercury. Instead is contains the less concerning ethylmercury and our bodies can remove. Also, thinking back to the First Rule of Toxicolgy, vaccines use/used very very small volumes of Thiomersal, of which only one ingredient is ethylmercury.

Now let's look at RFK Jr's boogey man, Aluminum. Why is it in vaccines? Vaccines usually have two important components: antigens and adjuvants. Antigens are the dead or weakened parts of the target virus or bacteria that your body then reacts to in a "immune response" and learns how to manufacture antibodies against for the future when the real virus or bacteria shows up. Along the way, scientists learned that you can boost a body's initial immune response against an antigen by adding other things to the vaccine along with it. These became known as "adjuvants" (Latin for "Help towards"). The end result is that adjuvants improve vaccine effectiveness down the road. Many of the best adjuvants that we use are aluminum salts (remember that table salt is a "Sodium salt" in the same sense of the term). It's also important to remember that your body rids itself of both antigens and adjuvants that are contained in vaccines. What protects you long-term is the "knowledge" that your immune system gains by its brief encounter with the antigens and adjuvants contained in the vaccine. It's a common misconception that vaccines just "build up" in your body as they are administered to you.
 
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Here’s one thing I would like explained - why are toxic heavy metals including mercury (thimerosal) used in vaccines? There has to be some alternative. 20 years ago when it was emerging as an issue (moreso in dental work but also in relations to vaccines) we paid OOP for single dose vials to avoid it. At the time our doctor had no real explanation.

I’m not asserting that it causes any specific condition like autism or depression but those elements simply do not belong in our bodies.

Thermisol was taken out of childhood vaccines in 2001. Although the trace amounts used wasn't an issue anyway.
Here are some facts from the experts: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html
https://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
 
I think that yours is a reasonable question, but there's some good answers. First of all, short of things like Plutonium, nothing is categorically "toxic." Toxicity is a function of two things: the substance and its concentration. Even water is toxic to humans at a high enough concentration. This overall notion is often referred to as The First Rule of Toxicology: "The dose makes the poison."

Secondly, the toxicity of a given element varies greatly based on its molecular form. Consider these two elements: Chlorine and Sodium. Both of these elements are pretty nasty substances on their own. Chlorine gas is very poisonous to humans and is banned as a chemical weapon. Sodium is a volatile metal that reacts violently with water to produce highly caustic lye. No one in their right minds would ingest either elemental Chlorine or Sodium. But when combined, the situation is totally different. You get Sodium Chloride, AKA "table salt". While, as with anything, you can die from eating too much table salt. We're talking an orders of magnitude difference in toxicity between the elemental forms of Sodium and Chlorine and table salt. But just like RFK Jr. claiming that a vaccine contains a "neurotoxin", I can claim that the stuff you season your ear of sweet corn with contains a "deadly chemical weapon."

Regarding mercury, it is sometimes used in multi-dose vials of vaccines to prevent fungal contamination of vials once the seal is broken when they start using the vial. If you'll recall, a few years ago there were a large number of people who were sickened or killed due to contamination of vials of steroids produced by a "compounding pharmacy" with poor sterile conditions. Mercury-containing Thiomersal is used, in very low concentrations, in order to prevent such tragedies. But the mercury is not elemental, it's in a compound (like my salt example): ethylmercury. While ethylmercury isn't nearly as "safe" as table salt and is hazardous at high enough levels, it's no where nearly as dangerous as the other common mercury compound: Methylmercury. Methylmercury is some pretty nasty stuff. One key difference is that our bodies have a very hard time removing methylmercury from our blood and tissues. Because of this methylmercury is considered a "bioaccumulative environmental toxicant." Again, Thiomersal doesn't contain the methylmercury form of mercury. Instead is contains the less concerning ethylmercury and our bodies can remove. Also, thinking back to the First Rule of Toxicolgy, vaccines use/used very very small volumes of Thiomersal, of which only one ingredient is ethylmercury.

Now let's look at RFK Jr's boogey man, Aluminum. Why is it in vaccines? Vaccines usually have two important components: antigens and adjuvants. Antigens are the dead or weakened parts of the target virus or bacteria that your body then reacts to in a "immune response" and learns how to manufacture antibodies against for the future when the real virus or bacteria shows up. Along the way, scientists learned that you can boost a body's initial immune response against an antigen by adding other things to the vaccine along with it. These became known as "adjuvants" (Latin for "Help towards"). The end result is that adjuvants improve vaccine effectiveness down the road. Many of the best adjuvants that we use are aluminum salts (remember that table salt is a "Sodium salt" in the same sense of the term). It's also important to remember that your body rids itself of both antigens and adjuvants that are contained in vaccines. What protects you long-term is the "knowledge" that your immune system gains by its brief encounter with the antigens and adjuvants contained in the vaccine. It's a common misconception that vaccines just "build up" in your body as they are administered to you.
Wow, I knew these things but not in that kind of detail. What an excellent, concise post. Thanks for the well thought out explanation.
 














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