Thoughts on Immigration from a Teacher's Husband

[Charade]

This may come as a surpise, but Illegals CAN'T VOTE.

and it may come as a surprise to the Republican's who have been kissing their behinds, because many of the latinos who are in the US legally do NOT support giving the illegals a free ride. Doing so is costing them business and income. (Because they are trying to conduct businesses legitamently, by hiring only legals, and when the government looks the other way when their competitors use illegals, they can't make the same low bids for jobs).

But if they are granted "amnesty" and a fast track to US citizenship, they WILL be able to vote. That's what the two parties are fighting for. Future votes PLUS the votes of the rest of the LEGAL Hispanic population.

 

[CheshireVal]

A few thoughts.

1. Most individuals here illegally know full well that they have zero chance of ever getting here legally. To all of you who take the copout road and say things like "I'm in favor of LEGAL immigration" ... short of being sponsored by big business (a five-figure cost on that one) or marrying, it's virtually impossible to get into this country. I dated a college-educated, white, healthy, native-English speaking athletic scholarship recipient (University of Arkansas) from an underrepresented country (New Zealand), and he cannot become a legal immigrant to the US. He's put over $4K into immigration lawyers and he still couldn't get an extension on his visa - and he has a full-time job. He goes back to NZ this summer. Do you all honestly think that fourth-grade educated window washers from Tijuana believe that they have any chance of getting here legally? They don't. Can we legitimately blame them for running over the border and trying to salvage any kind of meaningful life where their kids are fed? I can't. If I were 18, and Mexican, and female, and living in a mud hut in Guadalajara, I'd be swimming the Rio Grande so fast that heads would spin, enchanted by the prospect of earning seven U.S. dollars per hour dishwashing. I cannot blame people for doing exactly the same thing I would do.

That's just too bad for them. Immigration laws exist for a reason, and you'll find the same sorts of laws in countries all over the world. You think it would be easy for any of us to just pick up and move to England or Australia or Germany? They've got tough immigration laws as well.

I agree that it is pretty darn difficult to get in this country legally, but that still does not excuse those coming here anyway and thumbing their noses at our laws. Perhaps the laws should change to be made easier, but I don't think we should just open the floodgates and let just anyone in here. Our economy couldn't support it.

 

[Chuck S]

I couldn't care less what language someone wants to sing the "Star Spangled Banner." Saying they have "no right" to change "our song." They lyrics, yes, they were written by Francis Scott Key...anyone know where the melody came from? An old British pub/gentlemens club ditty making reference to the ancienct gods of drink and love. For its time a very bawdy piece.

I'm not so sure we had any more right to change the lyrics of a song published in 1799, if you claim the Hispanics don't have the right to sing it in Spanish.

 

[Crankyshank]

Doesn't appear to be all that impossible. According the State Dept. website:

I agree. I know many people that were able to come to this country without being sponsored by big business or marrying a US citizen.

What I don't understand is why it's ok to want the great education and American ideals for Mr & Mrs X from Guatemala but we can't be bothered helping Suzie Q from Appalachia rise out of the poverty that has plagued her area for generations where she's likely to face just as much of a hardship and astronomical odds of getting ahead as Mr & Mrs X's children back home in Guatemala.

and why is it ok for other countries (including Mexico) to have strict immigration guidelines and be just as hard (if not harder) to emigrate to but it's not ok for the US to have them? And spare me the quote from the Statue of Liberty please -that was inscribed by the French before they presented Lady Liberty to us as a gift. I would love to be able to pack up and move to several countries but that's not happening and yet you don't see me swimming the Atlantic Ocean or crossing over into Canada and demanding I be made a citizen and to be given the same rights they bestow on their citizens and that the gov't bust its hump to work around me and my needs. Hell I don't even get that from the US and I was born here - why should someone who doesn't even have the respect for the country to come here legally be given a better leg up than people born here?

 

[Galahad]

I couldn't care less what language someone wants to sing the "Star Spangled Banner." Saying they have "no right" to change "our song." They lyrics, yes, they were written by Francis Scott Key...anyone know where the melody came from? An old British pub/gentlemens club ditty making reference to the ancienct gods of drink and love. For its time a very bawdy piece.

I'm not so sure we had any more right to change the lyrics of a song published in 1799, if you claim the Hispanics don't have the right to sing it in Spanish.

Perhaps this is what they really mean:

"Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico."
- David Crowe on immigration

 

[MosMom]

On a side Disney note - Imagine going to the AMERICAN ADVENTURE at Epcot. And listening to 'Spread your Golden Wings' In Spanish. Listening to John F. Kennedy ask 'Its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country' In spanish!? Well heck, lets listen to in a native american language, they were here first!

You are such a racist. You told Miss Jasmine to grow up for mentioning your racist blog but I remember it too. I think she has a point to mention that because when you are a bigot to begin with, you see anything that has to do with a different race through tainted eyes.

I actually agree with some points you made but do you have to stick the racist BS in with your points? You totally lose credibility and respect.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I didn't ask her that. Seems if she was here legit,her dog would be licensed under her name not her relative's name. She did say she came to visit 12 years ago,and when she was suppose to return to Ireland,she just didn't return. I was thinking if she was not here ligitimately,she better keep her mouth shut. Its almost like a brag about what she gets away with. My hours have changed at the dog camp,so I haven't seen her or her dog recently. I wonder what she thinks about all these protests...

If she just chose not to return (i.e. overstayed her authorized stay)--then yes she is illegal according to the law. (I posted the statutes onanother thread).

 

[cardaway]

"Americans aren't afraid of Mexicans, Americans are afraid that Mexicans are turning America into Mexico."
- David Crowe on immigration

 

[budbeerlady]

INS can't do anything because INS no longer exists as an agency. It was a post-September 11 casualty.

INS is now U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). It operates under the DHS. I think it's about as useful as the TSA is at this point.

Boilerplate from its website: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was established in March 2003 as the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security. ICE is comprised of four integrated divisions that form a 21st century law enforcement agency with broad responsibilities for a number of key homeland security priorities.

More info if anyone is interested: http://www.ice.gov/about/index.htm

I think the problem with ICE is that its focus is split in a few directions.

Thanks, I was wondering why several photos I had seen had people wearing ICE jackets in the news. Dh thought I was losing it when I told him it was ICE.

 

[vivilasvegas]

You are such a racist. You told Miss Jasmine to grow up for mentioning your racist blog but I remember it too. I think she has a point to mention that because when you are a bigot to begin with, you see anything that has to do with a different race through tainted eyes.

I actually agree with some points you made but do you have to stick the racist BS in with your points? You totally lose credibility and respect.

I remember the blog also, and it was very racist. Just because you erased it doesn't mean you never said it. And I agree with the rest of this post too.

 

[CheshireVal]

If she just chose not to return (i.e. overstayed her authorized stay)--then yes she is illegal according to the law. (I posted the statutes onanother thread).

We don't really know though, in this case. She might have come here on a visa and then applied to change her status.

I guess my point of questioning it was that lots of bona fide Americans abuse the system in the exact same way! I guess having a legal person abuse the system is a little better than having an illegal immigrant abusing the system.

But it's still annoying, either way!

 

[dis ms.]

You are such a racist. You told Miss Jasmine to grow up for mentioning your racist blog but I remember it too. I think she has a point to mention that because when you are a bigot to begin with, you see anything that has to do with a different race through tainted eyes.

I actually agree with some points you made but do you have to stick the racist BS in with your points? You totally lose credibility and respect.

OP, whether you like it or not, MosMom makes an excellent point. Many of us here remember all too well the disgustingly racist things you wrote in your blog. In your own words, you made it quite clear how you feel about Mexicans (illegal or otherwise).

I'm having a hard time believing you're just upset about the ones that are here illegally. Sounds as if you're using the immigration issue as an excuse to rant about Mexicans without being raked across the coals. I'd have more respect for you if you were just honest about your racist opinions. Okay, maybe not, but at least you'd be telling the truth.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We don't really know though, in this case. She might have come here on a visa and then applied to change her status.

I guess my point of questioning it was that lots of bona fide Americans abuse the system in the exact same way! I guess having a legal person abuse the system is a little better than having an illegal immigrant abusing the system.

But it's still annoying, either way!

I think we are getting a little into semantics here.

We know that people do this. And some have the "cojones" to not hide it. People do overstay their welcome and that is why they have laws. The reason they may opt not to lead is they begin to have a life here (illegally). If they overstay less than a year and then leave--they cannot return for 3 years. IF they overstay more than a year and then leave--they cannot return for 10 years.

Regardless if they are abusing the system or not--the mere presence of an undocumented alien is illegal.

And these are able bodied people who could do something (if they were legal) and choose to leach (sp?) the system.

Combining two debates about the abuse of the system by citizens and undocumented aliens (aka illegal imigrants)--is not a valid line of defense for illegal immigrants.


And while WE do not know personally this woman--pretending that she or someone like her does not exist--doesn't make people like that not exist. It is a problem that needs to be addressed quickly. Sadly--those who "hide" out and have someone else assisting them so that they can do things--well that means that TWO people are breaking the law.

FTR I said IF she overstayed and was undocumented that she is illegal.

I didn't say for a fact that she was--she is just as likely either way and to assume that everyone is not illegal until proven otherwise--is what got us into trouble.

But based on the context of the statement of the person who posted about her---she doesn't sound too legal. I would think that those who go through the proper channels would be proud of their path of legal status and share it as she so smugly shared how she gets free healthcare while driving an SUV.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You are such a racist. You told Miss Jasmine to grow up for mentioning your racist blog but I remember it too. I think she has a point to mention that because when you are a bigot to begin with, you see anything that has to do with a different race through tainted eyes.

I actually agree with some points you made but do you have to stick the racist BS in with your points? You totally lose credibility and respect.

Wow--I did not know this about the OP!

 

[Southern4sure]

Originally Posted by greenyskp
On a side Disney note - Imagine going to the AMERICAN ADVENTURE at Epcot. And listening to 'Spread your Golden Wings' In Spanish. Listening to John F. Kennedy ask 'Its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country' In spanish!? Well heck, lets listen to in a native american language, they were here first!

My heritage is Native American. My grandmother (dad side) was full blooded 100% Cherokee Indian. Does that give me the right to kick all of you out?.... J/K

I agree and disagree with some of your original post. I think a HUGE reform is needed, not just certain areas. Let's get back to the basics by learning from our mistakes and improve our systems so we are not in the mess we are in now and heading to.

BTW, WIC and foodstamps are abused by legal American residents just as much as illegal.

 

[DISUNC]

After reading this post All the way through, I think I have a solution. Let the Illegal immigrants stay here and replace them with some of the posters.

I really have no problem with people voicing their opinions, if I agree or not! In fact I enjoy a rowdy debate. But when people ramble absolute BS, under the thought of it being the truth. That just ticks me off!

WOW....I never read such ill informed, completely ignorant racist ramblings...so PROUDLY written & displayed, as if these rantings were even close to being the Truth!

It don't take much for some people to be DIVERTED from what IS the real issues of our times!
We are in a highly questionable War, where thousands of people have been murdered...FOR WHAT REASON IS ANYBODIES QUESS!
We have a health care system in this country that is PARALYZING a nation!
It is 2006 and there are still millions of children going to bed HUNGRY every night...right here in our own backyards.
We have an elected administration who continually IGNORES ALL ADVICE (pleadings) from ALL the EXPERTS!
MY TAX DOLLARS ARE GOING TO SUPPORT HALLIBURTON BOARD OF DIRECTORS!

 

[Charade]

I couldn't care less what language someone wants to sing the "Star Spangled Banner." Saying they have "no right" to change "our song." They lyrics, yes, they were written by Francis Scott Key...anyone know where the melody came from? An old British pub/gentlemens club ditty making reference to the ancienct gods of drink and love. For its time a very bawdy piece.


I'm not so sure we had any more right to change the lyrics of a song published in 1799, if you claim the Hispanics don't have the right to sing it in Spanish.

The fact the melody come from a bawdy English pub song is irrelevant. Only for obscure reasons as you have expressed, no one will equate the two. It's just a little known historical fact that makes you go "hmm.. that's interesting".

If the pub melody was in the public domain, it's fair to use it for whatever you want. I wonder if the Star Spangled Banner (in it's current form) is copyrighted. If not, then it's in the public domain and fair game for whoever wants to butcher it for their own reasons. But that doesn't make it right. Since you "couldn't care less", why do you care that others are upset over the issue now?

I really don't care that much if someone wants to sing it in their native language (I'd prefer hearing in it English) and as long as they sing it for it's true meaning. Not some version hacked up to express a political point.

 

[CheshireVal]

I think we are getting a little into semantics here.

We know that people do this. And some have the "cojones" to not hide it. People do overstay their welcome and that is why they have laws. The reason they may opt not to lead is they begin to have a life here (illegally). If they overstay less than a year and then leave--they cannot return for 3 years. IF they overstay more than a year and then leave--they cannot return for 10 years.

Regardless if they are abusing the system or not--the mere presence of an undocumented alien is illegal.

And these are able bodied people who could do something (if they were legal) and choose to leach (sp?) the system.

Combining two debates about the abuse of the system by citizens and undocumented aliens (aka illegal imigrants)--is not a valid line of defense for illegal immigrants.


And while WE do not know personally this woman--pretending that she or someone like her does not exist--doesn't make people like that not exist. It is a problem that needs to be addressed quickly. Sadly--those who "hide" out and have someone else assisting them so that they can do things--well that means that TWO people are breaking the law.

FTR I said IF she overstayed and was undocumented that she is illegal.

I didn't say for a fact that she was--she is just as likely either way and to assume that everyone is not illegal until proven otherwise--is what got us into trouble.

But based on the context of the statement of the person who posted about her---she doesn't sound too legal. I would think that those who go through the proper channels would be proud of their path of legal status and share it as she so smugly shared how she gets free healthcare while driving an SUV.

Hey, I'm on your side here. I don't support illegal immigration (or illegal immigrants) in any way, shape or form.

I was just questioning that earlier story because it was written in a "here's a specific example of an illegal cheating the system," when the poster really had no idea if the woman in question was legal or not.

I don't think we need to assume people are illegal just because they are cheating the system, because it happens all the time from citizens and non-citizens alike.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I really don't care that much if someone wants to sing it in their native language (I'd prefer hearing in it English) and as long as they sing it for it's true meaning. Not some version hacked up to express a political point.

Hey Charade I agree with you on this..I don't care if someone sins it in Swahili,english or Spanish. Now if there was a movement to actually *change* thelanguage the song is officially sung in ,I would oppose it.

 

[Chuck S]

I really don't care that much if someone wants to sing it in their native language (I'd prefer hearing in it English) and as long as they sing it for it's true meaning. Not some version hacked up to express a political point.

Since it is not copyrighted (who would own the copyright on a song that old?), they are free to butcher it up even for a polital statement...it seems we butchered the bawdy song for a political statement, didn't we?