This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[lifesavacation]

How do you know this?

The initial report stated she fell out of his arms while holding her out the window. The family is contesting that. Surely the lawyer would ask to see the video.

Later articles are saying the investigation is continuing including investigations of the cruise ship. These were 2 and 3 days ago. If the video shows exactly what the police said, why would they continue investigating the ship?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...falling-arms-cruise-ship-arrives-Chicago.html
Officers were unable to find a first-hand witness to her last moments last Sunday when they boarded the $800 million Royal Caribbean ship that can carry up to 4,500 passengers.
However a source close to the investigation confirmed the entire incident was caught on camera.

 

[sam_gordon]

The only eyewitness isn’t speaking to the police. What is being reported came from video evidence.

Then why does the story keep changing? "He was dangling her", "he was swinging her", "he stood her on the rail".

Police made a statement on the first day IIRC. I don't think the video was mentioned until day 3-4.

 

[Suger Mag]

How do you know this?

The initial report stated she fell out of his arms while holding her out the window. The family is contesting that. Surely the lawyer would ask to see the video.

Later articles are saying the investigation is continuing including investigations of the cruise ship. These were 2 and 3 days ago. If the video shows exactly what the police said, why would they continue investigating the ship?

they are not investigating the ship right now, the cruise is still going on, this incident happened at the beginning of the cruise, the article posted above says they MAY look at the ship again when it returns.

 

[msjprincess]

they are not investigating the ship right now, the cruise is still going on, this incident happened at the beginning of the cruise, the article posted above says they MAY look at the ship again when it returns.

It returned and left again yesterday.

 

[lifesavacation]

Then why does the story keep changing? "He was dangling her", "he was swinging her", "he stood her on the rail".

Police made a statement on the first day IIRC. I don't think the video was mentioned until day 3-4.

If I remember correctly, the dangling out the window came from crew members (plural), but I've seen it in several places that there were no first hand witnesses.

 

[luvsJack]

they are not investigating the ship right now, the cruise is still going on, this incident happened at the beginning of the cruise, the article posted above says they MAY look at the ship again when it returns.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/ne...cle_5c78ffa8-ec50-5c9a-bb2d-9dd128f4ad32.html

 

[DLgal]

If I remember correctly, the dangling out the window came from crew members (plural), but I've seen it in several places that there were no first hand witnesses.

I believe they said they had no PASSENGER witnesses. Or, they had not been able to find any on the day the incident happened. They were going to attempt to find some when the cruises returned on Sunday. I believe the crew members who gave the initial story were on the dock and saw the girl actually fall. I am not positive about that, though I think I read that somewhere.

 

[DLgal]

Then why does the story keep changing? "He was dangling her", "he was swinging her", "he stood her on the rail".

Police made a statement on the first day IIRC. I don't think the video was mentioned until day 3-4.

Exactly. Why does the story keep changing? Because the lawyer keeps changing it.

 

[DLgal]

How do you know this?

The initial report stated she fell out of his arms while holding her out the window. The family is contesting that. Surely the lawyer would ask to see the video.

Later articles are saying the investigation is continuing including investigations of the cruise ship. These were 2 and 3 days ago. If the video shows exactly what the police said, why would they continue investigating the ship?

The lawyer has NOT seen the video yet. RCCL and the local police are the only ones who have seen it. The police offered the parents the opportunity to view it, but not the GF or the lawyer.

The lawyer doesn't have an automatic right to the video unless and until his client has been charged with a crime. The police and RCCL may choose to share it, but that is at their discretion.

Also, videos are ONE part of an investigation. You don't just stop because you have a video. They need to do a complete, by the books investigation, covering all angles, gathering evidence, interviewing people, etc.

 

[luvsJack]

Exactly. Why does the story keep changing? Because the lawyer keeps changing it.

The lawyer hasn't said swinging or dangling.


Looking at the pictures of the grandfather and granddaughter, in one he is holding her up to a large character of some sort. I wonder if he was holding her this same way on the ship, resting his arms on the ledge. She leaned forward to bang on the glass, only there wasn't any glass and she fell. This would explain each description the lawyer used and he is the one that actually spoke to the grandfather.

The lawyer has NOT seen the video yet. RCCL and the local police are the only ones who have seen it. The police offered the parents the opportunity to view it, but not the GF or the lawyer.

The lawyer doesn't have an automatic right to the video unless and until his client has been charged with a crime. The police and RCCL may choose to share it, but that is at their discretion.

Also, videos are ONE part of an investigation. You don't just stop because you have a video. They need to do a complete, by the books investigation, covering all angles, gathering evidence, interviewing people, etc.

I never said that he did see. I said ASK to see it. Two different statements there. And I didn't say he automatically had a right to see it but I could see the parents wanting him to see if rather than themselves.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I saw this in regard to the family lawyer:

”The singular reason they hired me to start was to help with the truth to get out there, because there was a lot of misinformation being spread on the Internet and various sources," Winkleman told ABC News in an interview Tuesday night. "But of course, my primary role as their advocate and the attorney, is to help them seek justice for what happened to Chloe."

"And if that means filing a lawsuit against them, that's certainly something that is in the playbook of options," he added.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnew...e-ship-fall-grandpa-thought/story?id=64212610

 

[Pea-n-Me]

^ Of course, in the same article it says that Chloe was in the children's play area and we know that's not true (it's in the middle of the deck), so it does make one wonder if the lawyer was trying to put a certain spin on things in an attempt to do damage control after what the police in PR said and in setting up the cruise line in the public's eye to be at fault ("Why would you put open windows in a children's play area, I'm not taking my kids on that ship!") - if business drops, they'll settle to make it go away. (They'll probably settle anyway, seeing it is such a heartbreaking tragedy that did occur on their ship - fault aside.)

"Chloe was with her grandfather in the children's water park play area when her grandfather put her on a wood railing in front of a wall of glass windows, Winkleman said at a news conference."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/indiana-toddler-died-cruise-ship-fall-grandpa-thought/story?id=64212610

 

[gwynne]

I saw this in regard to the family lawyer:

”The singular reason they hired me to start was to help with the truth to get out there, because there was a lot of misinformation being spread on the Internet and various sources," Winkleman told ABC News in an interview Tuesday night. "But of course, my primary role as their advocate and the attorney, is to help them seek justice for what happened to Chloe."

"And if that means filing a lawsuit against them, that's certainly something that is in the playbook of options," he added.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnew...e-ship-fall-grandpa-thought/story?id=64212610

And I believe the other reason he's been retained ( which he is very unlikely to admit) is that if charges are filed he's there to help sort out the complicated next steps.
I am not "for" criminal charges, I just recognize they are sadly a possibility.
And until the authorities confirm no charges it will be an open question.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I believe this is the same Michael Winkleman

https://www.lipcon.com/maritime-attorneys/michael-winkleman/

 

[mummabear]

they are not investigating the ship right now, the cruise is still going on, this incident happened at the beginning of the cruise, the article posted above says they MAY look at the ship again when it returns.

And a thorough investigation would have to include the cruise line. It's like in a traffic accident even if someone speeds through a red light in a stolen car and crash into you, they will still check you blood alcohol level

 

[lifesavacation]

There’s a Fundly campaign on behalf of the family. The fundraising goal is 50K.

There's also a gofundme for a bench.

Edited to stay within the rules.

 

[Suger Mag]

https://www.southbendtribune.com/ne...cle_5c78ffa8-ec50-5c9a-bb2d-9dd128f4ad32.html

And a thorough investigation would have to include the cruise line. It's like in a traffic accident even if someone speeds through a red light in a stolen car and crash into you, they will still check you blood alcohol level

of course there is an investigation, I never meant to imply that there was not, i took the original post to mean the ship was parked at the dock while this investigation ... of the cruise line.. of the grandfather... takes place; and that was all I was trying to point out, is that that particular ship is sailing, and as it was pointed out by another poster, the ship has completed the original cruise where the tragedy occurred and are now on another totally different cruise with new passengers.

 

[luvsJack]

Thought I'd provide the Fundly link for anyone who wishes to donate. The fundraising goal is 50K.

<edited>

Wow! the one for the bench is 3500 OVER the target amount and the other one is at 14.000. I don't give to these kind of things because there is no way of knowing who the organizer is or where the money is going to .

 

[Hikergirl]

Wow! the one for the bench is 3500 OVER the target amount and the other one is at 14.000. I don't give to these kind of things because there is no way of knowing who the organizer is or where the money is going to .

I know this sounds insensitive but I don't get asking for 50K and then any funds left will go to the other children's college expenses? I can see when a parent dies unexpectedly, a family is losing someone who provides but for a toddler? It just seems excessive and makes me think that the people who set it up are shady. No way would I donate, if I knew the family personally there are other ways to help even if it's financially.

 

[gwynne]

I know this sounds insensitive but I don't get asking for 50K and then any funds left will go to the other children's college expenses? I can see when a parent dies unexpectedly, a family is losing someone who provides but for a toddler? It just seems excessive and makes me think that the people who set it up are shady. No way would I donate, if I knew the family personally there are other ways to help even if it's financially.

I'm going to hope some kind person in the local community steps forward to help carefully set some goals that are reasonable.
And also gently explain why ( when the goal is met) it can be better to end the go fund me.