Things that make you shake your head!

[DMRick]

Then run for office and change things. You need to find solutions, not just complain IMO. While it might be my business and interest to talk with those in power, I still feel it doesn't give me the right to judge a person's cart, not knowing anything about that person (and I was judged over and over, when buying for my dad with cancer, and thus needing high calorie foods). And while I think it's terrible to judge someone on one cart, not knowing any of the persons history, it's even worse, to make it sound like all she had was the candy, and later say there might have also been food in the cart, they didn't look. In other words, the $174 might not have been all candy..maybe not even mostly.

It is your business if you pay taxes.

 

[tinkarooni]

You are correct, it shouldn't be any different. That was actually the point I was trying to make. Just because we are the taxpayers, why should we get to pick and choose where our tax dollars are going and what's best for people. That's why we have people who dod that. We should leave that to those who are better equipped to do that. And decisions on what can be bought with food stamps have been made by those equipped to make them...they should not be made by a quick look in a cart, not having any background info.

I'm glad to see that we agree on the point that it should be regulated in some way, although I certainly am not the expert to do it, but think that a lot of us have valid opinions on the problems with it. The program is not being regulated properly. Even the politicians know it which is why we are constantly being inundated with political ads on tv these days about cutting wasteful spending yada yada yada. I think these type of programs while not wasteful in their entirety, do have waste in them. I personally think the WIC program is a good example of the way food stamps should possibly be. Having worked as a cashier for several years I had a lot of first hand experience. They received a check or voucher and on it was exactly what they could buy, peanut butter, juice, milk, bread, cereals baby formula. Of course it would have to be expanded but it is a good idea in theory.

My opinion is that if I didn't have any food to feed my children and somebody told me that I could have cereal, chicken, juice, milk, bananas and noodles for the week I would be thrilled to take it. My first thought wouldn't be "But I should have the right to buy soda and candy with food stamps" my first thought would be thank god somebody is helping me feed my children. We seem to have gotten away from the real purpose of the food stamp program.

 

[Colleen27]

Trust me, I won't need it, because I made choices in my life that allow me to have some money put aside..I support myself, I work in healthcare too, so my job market is very stable. I also have life insurance/short term disability insurance, money put aside for retirement and a hefty "rainy day" fund. I also probably wouldn't qualify because I have no children, a "disability" or a drug problem. That sounds bitter but RI has a very lax disability/welfare program.

I wasn't raised rich-my dad worked two jobs as I was growing up, my maternal grandparents were immigrants-there was no welfare for them when they came over. My grandma actually turned down the welcome basket from the church, because she didn't want to take charity.They both worked, my grandpa had the day shift, my grandma worked nights. I worked my way through nursing school. So, I'm not real receptive to the "someday that could be you" spiel, because unlike many, I have some pride and I'm aware that your choices come back to bite you in the butt if they're not good ones.

But good choices don't guarantee good outcomes. They make a good outcome more likely, but there are no sure things in life. We know plenty of people right now who made good choices - college to trade school to enter so-called recession-proof or outsourcing-proof fields - only to end up down on their luck anyway. We know certified teachers, now laid off, who are on food stamps, licensed tradesmen with years of experience who need medical assistance to keep their kids insured, degreed professionals working at McDs and losing their homes to foreclosure because they can't find work that pays a living wage. These are all people who thought their fields were stable and their savings would carry them through any short-term unemployment, but the reality is that most people just can't prepare for the years-long unemployment that is so frighteningly common right now.

 

[Colleen27]

Yes, sadly I find most of them are just lazy or not raised right. Come to my state and you'll see what I mean. My hospital is in a urban, kind of tough part of town. I counted one day the number of satillite dishes on the houses nearby..almost every house had a least a couple(3 familiy houses).

So if someone loses a job and applies for assistance, he should be thinking about climbing up on the roof to take down the satellite dish because cancelling the service isn't an obvious enough cutback for passers by? Every house we've lived in except this one has had a satellite dish, and we've never even had satellite TV; they just aren't something people take down when they cancel the service or move.

I do firmly believe that the nature of one's interaction with the poor/people on public assistance makes all the difference in one's opinions of those programs. I've seen both sides; I worked in a Detroit welfare office where abuses and learned dependance are common, and now I live in a blue collar small town where people desperately want to work but there are no jobs to be found. Yes, generational poverty is a problem but I don't think for a second that those families represent all or even most of the population that benefits from public assistance. And they certainly shouldn't be the basis for making it so that the laid off teacher or the former autoworker scraping by on a couple of part-time minimum wage jobs can't buy a birthday cake or Halloween candy for the kids that are already learning to do without sports and vacations and new toys/clothes.

 

[Colleen27]

Here in Michigan the Bridge Card (EBT) will pay for the deposit on your pop. I do think that is wrong.

That annoys me a bit too, but I understand it - in most stores point-of-sale systems, the defining characteristic that decides whether something is food stamp eligible or not is whether it is subject to state sales tax. Since deposits are untaxed because they are attached to a tax-exempy product, the register considers them a food product.

Something else that annoys me about the system here, much more than the bottle deposits do, is that according to the USDA seeds and plants that produce food are eligible food stamp purchases but I don't know of any stores that will honor them for that. Stupid, really, when you can grow 20 tomato plants from a $2 seed packet or pay $2 for a single pound of tomatoes. But again it comes back to using sales tax status to determine which items are eligible; since the seeds or seedlings are taxed, the system disqualifies them from food stamp payment.

 

[robsmom]

But good choices don't guarantee good outcomes. They make a good outcome more likely, but there are no sure things in life.

To me this hits the nail on the head. Good choices increase the odds of good outcome and on the flip side bad choices often lead to bad outcome. To me, the billion dollar question is how do we as a society protect the first group (good decisions, bad outcome) while not rewarding the second (bad decisions, bad outcome). I want to have social systems that provides support in the situations that you describe. That is what a good society does for its members. I am less inclinded to want to help those who are not willing to help themselves. A prior posted used examples of a woman left with a child when the father abandons her, a grandmother raising her grandchild etc. While these are sad situations that may not always be the fault of the person needing help, they are the fault of someone. Somewhere along the line a woman had a baby with a man that was not a good choice and a man/woman/both chose to not step up to responsibilities If we can figure out a way to correct some parts of the system, we would have alot more help available as a safety net for those that just get unlucky.

 

[Colleen27]

The thing I don't get about the Judgy McJudgerson discussions about what "they" buy with foodstamps is that for every post or thread on buying junk there is a flip side discussion of the food being "too nice". I'm 100% positive that it wouldn't take too much digging here on DIS (or elsewhere) to find posts wherein someone saw a grocery cart full of fresh fruits and veggies, supplies for homemade baking and lean meats and got all indignant upon happening to notice how the buyer paid because "ZOMG! "They" get better groceries than I do and I pay taxes!"

So, which is it? Do foodstamp recipients - as a group, remember, since it seems too much trouble to regard these encounters as involving actual individuals or families with unique and unknowable circumstances - buy food that is too junky or too good? What threshold of "being responsible" allows one the right of setting menus of others in our community to make sure they're neither above nor below the mean in terms of cost and content?

I think they're all supposed to be taking cooking lessons from that Duggar woman's website - how to cook up a mess of ground meat and cheap starches to feed an army on $50 a week.

Of course, then people will complain about how their diet of hamburger and white starches is contributing to the obesity epidemic and be all outraged over the idea that the taxpayers might be paying for their health care.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm glad to see that we agree on the point that it should be regulated in some way, although I certainly am not the expert to do it, but think that a lot of us have valid opinions on the problems with it. The program is not being regulated properly. Even the politicians know it which is why we are constantly being inundated with political ads on tv these days about cutting wasteful spending yada yada yada..

Well, no. Politicans run those ads because they are what people want to hear, and because the poor are a convenience and mostly voiceless scapegoat. Keeping people worked up over $174 in candy bought with food stamps is a good way to keep attention off of the waste that is more dear to our representatives' hearts - the pleasure travel disguised as business, the kickbacks and tax breaks for good donors, the bailouts for industries that use them to increase profits rather than protect jobs, etc. The poor don't contribute to campaigns, and many don't even vote. Politicians have little to lose by alienating them, and much to gain by keeping attention off of what's going on behind the curtain.

 

[DMRick]

I agree. I actually get to know some of the people who come into the mission for meals. We sit with them and talk with them, and for the most part, this isn't the life they want. Getting out of this life with little education, that's the hard part.

I do firmly believe that the nature of one's interaction with the poor/people on public assistance makes all the difference in one's opinions of those programs. I've seen both sides; I worked in a Detroit welfare office where abuses and learned dependance are common, and now I live in a blue collar small town where people desperately want to work but there are no jobs to be found. Yes, generational poverty is a problem but I don't think for a second that those families represent all or even most of the population that benefits from public assistance. And they certainly shouldn't be the basis for making it so that the laid off teacher or the former autoworker scraping by on a couple of part-time minimum wage jobs can't buy a birthday cake or Halloween candy for the kids that are already learning to do without sports and vacations and new toys/clothes.

 

[tlbwriter]

I agree. I actually get to know some of the people who come into the mission for meals. We sit with them and talk with them, and for the most part, this isn't the life they want. Getting out of this life with little education, that's the hard part.

And that's why I'd rather pay twice as much in taxes if that money was spent on training, childcare, and relocation expenses instead of food. Teach a man to fish, you know...

 

[hambirg]

Well, no. Politicans run those ads because they are what people want to hear, and because the poor are a convenience and mostly voiceless scapegoat. Keeping people worked up over $174 in candy bought with food stamps is a good way to keep attention off of the waste that is more dear to our representatives' hearts - the pleasure travel disguised as business, the kickbacks and tax breaks for good donors, the bailouts for industries that use them to increase profits rather than protect jobs, etc. The poor don't contribute to campaigns, and many don't even vote. Politicians have little to lose by alienating them, and much to gain by keeping attention off of what's going on behind the curtain.

Bingo! We have a winner!

And the reason people are able to buy candy and soda with their food stamps is because there is a HUGE lobby ensuring that they can.

 

[DMRick]

But even those children of poor choices need to be provided for. And again, judging one basket from someone not known (or even if the basket should have been judged, since we don't know if there was 'good' choice food in it) isn't the way to fix the problem. Overhearing someone talking about your choices, will mean nothing to someone who is cheating the system and will only embarass someone who isn't.

And following Wic already has the supermarket's frustrated. I can't imagine trying to do that on a large scale. That's like going back to the pick up of surplus food, where people stood in a long line to get their welfare food (blocks of cheese, large vats of peanut butter, etc). The idea isn't to make people feel bad. Learning to make choices has to be the answer, and that can only come through teaching. So many on here know just what people should be buying, have you thought of volunteering to teach cooking/grocery buying classes at your local mission, at the community rooms of low housing, and help people make what you think are correct choices?? Or would that solution mean we have to get our hands dirty?

Somewhere along the line a woman had a baby with a man that was not a good choice and a man/woman/both chose to not to step up to responsibilities If we can figure out a way to correct some parts of the system, we would have alot more help available as a safety net for those that just get unlucky.

 

[Ava]

I certainly understand the amount is based on income, family size property owned.

Here is the info for NYS if anyone is interested:

http://www.otda.state.ny.us/main/programs/food-stamps/

Everyone participating in this thread should take a moment, click on this link, and look at the income requirements to be eligible for food stamps.

In NY, for a family of 4 with no elderly or disabled members the MAXIMUM gross annual income to be eligible for food stamps is $28,668. I would not want to be trying to support my family on that income. I have friends who are on WIC/food stamps due to job loss, and they are still struggling to pay their bills even with food assistance.

I agree that there are people who abuse the system, and there could be changes made to make it better. But I honestly would NOT want to be in a position that made me eligible for public assistance.

 

[DMRick]

And that's why I'd rather pay twice as much in taxes if that money was spent on training, childcare, and relocation expenses instead of food. Teach a man to fish, you know...

Most people might say that, but would not really want to pay twice the taxes training the poor, childcare, etc. Believe me, getting people to give up money to have training classes at the mission, isn't all that easy LOL. But if you really feel that way, please call your local mission and volunteer some money and time to teach...it's really needed. Our local Girls and Boys club are also looking for money and people to train on computers, cooking classes, even taking a few kids out shopping with you. Get them early...that's our future.

 

[DMRick]

Everyone participating in this thread should take a moment, click on this link, and look at the income requirements to be eligible for food stamps.

In NY, for a family of 4 with no elderly or disabled members the MAXIMUM gross annual income to be eligible for food stamps is $28,668. I would not want to be trying to support my family on that income.

People working full time, are still under that food stamp amount. With that size family, you would have to earn more than $14 an hour (almost double the minimum wage) to be above the max food stamp level. So I guess we really shouldn't assume people aren't working, if they have food stamps. So we may be judging people that are working full time, not just being freeloaders.

 

[Ava]

People working full time, are still under that food stamp amount. With that size family, you would have to earn more than $14 an hour (almost double the minimum wage) to be above the max food stamp level. So I guess we really shouldn't assume people aren't working, if they have food stamps. So we may be judging people that are working full time, not just being freeloaders.

Definitely. The friends I mentioned who are on food stamps are working, just "underemployed." They have an infant, so only one of them was working full-time. She lost her full-time job several months ago and has not yet been able to find another. They are both working part-time while she looks for another full-time job, but it's not enough to cover their expenses. I think this "profile" of a family on food stamps is probably more common than families who don't work at all & just collect benefits.

 

[tinkarooni]

Well, no. Politicans run those ads because they are what people want to hear, and because the poor are a convenience and mostly voiceless scapegoat. Keeping people worked up over $174 in candy bought with food stamps is a good way to keep attention off of the waste that is more dear to our representatives' hearts - the pleasure travel disguised as business, the kickbacks and tax breaks for good donors, the bailouts for industries that use them to increase profits rather than protect jobs, etc. The poor don't contribute to campaigns, and many don't even vote. Politicians have little to lose by alienating them, and much to gain by keeping attention off of what's going on behind the curtain.

I don't disagree with you at all. The fact is there is wasteful all over this country and this is just one example of many areas that are not handled properly. We're not supposed to get political.....I just wonder if a penny pinching SAH American parent couldn't cut some corners in our govt spending and get us back in shape.

 

[tlbwriter]

Most people might say that, but would not really want to pay twice the taxes training the poor, childcare, etc. Believe me, getting people to give up money to have training classes at the mission, isn't all that easy LOL. But if you really feel that way, please call your local mission and volunteer some money and time to teach...it's really needed. Our local Girls and Boys club are also looking for money and people to train on computers, cooking classes, even taking a few kids out shopping with you. Get them early...that's our future.

I'm already involved, no need to assume I'm just blowing smoke.

 

[cm8]

The thing I don't get about the Judgy McJudgerson discussions about what "they" buy with foodstamps is that for every post or thread on buying junk there is a flip side discussion of the food being "too nice". I'm 100% positive that it wouldn't take too much digging here on DIS (or elsewhere) to find posts wherein someone saw a grocery cart full of fresh fruits and veggies, supplies for homemade baking and lean meats and got all indignant upon happening to notice how the buyer paid because "ZOMG! "They" get better groceries than I do and I pay taxes!"

So, which is it? Do foodstamp recipients - as a group, remember, since it seems too much trouble to regard these encounters as involving actual individuals or families with unique and unknowable circumstances - buy food that is too junky or too good? What threshold of "being responsible" allows one the right of setting menus of others in our community to make sure they're neither above nor below the mean in terms of cost and content?

Agreed, my husband thinks that people who purchase organic foods on EBT should not be allowed too, we had this debate the other night. I told him that it should not matter that they are allowed to purchase organic foods. People want to be healthy and should not be limited to foods that will eventually cause them future medical problems. If they stay with-in the amount that they have been provided with for a month, then really it should not matter what they buy.

 

[Michigan_Minnie]

I was at Walmart this morning doing the weekly shop. I came across this couple shopping for candy in the Halloween section. 2 adorable little kids. The mom started talking to me. Telling me how they are having a huge Halloween party and they had to buy lots of candy for said party. Well, that's wonderful, have fun I said back. I happened to get in the check out line behind them and she is talking back and forth between the cashier and myself about this great party. $172 worth of candy she bought!! Anyway, long story short she pulls out her card and I hear her tell the cashier it will be EBT-food stamps! I almost lost it right there! It makes me sick that some of us are there working our tail ends off and this person can throw a party and our tax $ paid for it!! I don't mind that the help is there for people who need it but, that is just not right!! Am I wrong to feel like that??

This is a shame. Makes me very angry to see where my tax dollars go. I used to work in a grocery store in high school and a family would come in every day and do things like this. They were just total burn outs. They'd spend $100 on lottery tickets and then go back to the meat counter and buy 2 whole New York Strips ($70 each). They'd use food stamps for the meat then buy a couple cartons of cigarettes!