They Repossessed My Car-- Not for Payment Related Issue

[Chicago526]

The same thing recently happened to me. My father passed away back in June and we had an SUV on his name with my name on the title as well. He was the only one listed on the loan and so I called and spoke with them about a week after he passed to find out what could be done. The representative at the bank told me that as long as the payments were made on time and in full every month there should be no problem but she would have someone get back to me. So I ater not hearing back for two weeks I called back and they said everything was fine.

So I continued making payments and then this past Friday I recieved a message from the company asking to call back about an important matter. It was after hours and I was gone all day Saturday (they have no Sunday hours) so I was going to call first thing Monday morning. Well I was awoken by the alarm on the car going off at 6:15 am Monday morn. So I ran to the back door to see the guy taking the car away. He stopped and informed me the car was being repossed and gave me a card with a number to call on it.

I called as soon as they opend at 8am and was told be a very snotty employee that they had been calling for the past 2 months to speak with me (the only message I ever recieved was the one from friday no others were left) and since they had not heard back they repossed the car. I argued that I was making payment on time and had spoken to two representatives (had their names and when I spoke with them written down) that as long as the payments were on time there was no problem. She proceeds to tell me that since I am unemployed (how they knew that is beyond me I never gave them that info) they could not continue the loan and that we could pay for the car in full if we wanted it back. Then she tells me if it goes to auction we are responsible for any difference between what the loan was for and what they sell it for.

I am so upset and have no clue what to do. Why should my employment status have anything to do with it if the payments have been on time for the entire length of time we have had the car?

I'm not an expert, but common sense says that if your father was the only one on the loan, you are NOT responsible for the balance after they sell the car at auction, only his estate would be. The bank doesn't get to have it both ways, they can't reposes the car because you aren't on the loan and then make you be legally responsible for the payment. The bank may have the legal right to take the car since your father has died, but I can't imagine how you'd then owe on the balance of the loan.

Post your situation on this forum: http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/index.php, the people there are very helpful and if anyone knows the next step you should take, they will. I don't think they have a specifc board for Repos, try posting under "Collections". The moderator will move your post if there is a better spot for it.

 

[manning]

When a person dies he/she leaves no debts. The deceased estate pays all debts before any assets are distributed. If all assets have been exhausted before all debts are paid then all unpaid debts are cancelled. Heirs do not assume deceased debts.

 

[C.Ann]

Yikes! This really happens to people when they're still paying faithfully on the car? That's pretty scary..

 

[RitaZ.]

Wow! I didn't know this could happen. OP, what will happen to the payments that you made? Will they refund that money to you?

Good luck!

 

[PaulaSB12]

When a person dies he/she leaves no debts. The deceased estate pays all debts before any assets are distributed. If all assets have been exhausted before all debts are paid then all unpaid debts are cancelled. Heirs do not assume deceased debts.

I hope the banks over in the US honour that rule. The banks in the UK tried to scare me into paying the money my father owed I didn't pay but it was a lot of money.

 

[dalt01]

the car was financed by my grandfather-in-law because we could not get a loan at the time. Because he didn't even have a drivers license anymore the car was insured and registered to us-- and then my husbands name and grandfathers name were on the title together.

a couple things dont add up............you cannot have ownership without financial responsiblity..... in other words your husband would need to be on the loan with gfil in order to be on the title together.............also...........the title and registration should match but you say the registration is just in your name......... if both names are indeed on the title your husband is the co owner of the vehicle and as long as the loan is not in arrears............generally 90 days or more............they would have no legal right to take the vehicle even if it is an estate issue because ownership would fall to the survivor...........make sure your name is on the title as you say...........however i do not know how you know that because MOST states require that a recorded lien be held by the lender untill paid off which would give you no access to the title to see whos name is on it.

 

[tinatark]

Banks also commonly have a cross-collateralization clause - if your grandfather owed loans or credit cards there, which were in default due to his death, the collateral from the other loan he has (the car) could be repossessed.

As far as the title being held in 2 names, loan in one, that is not common but is definitely possible. The title should read "or" which means that either owner can sell/borrow/trade against the car.

A PP mentioned sometimes credit unions pay off their loans upon deaths - you should check and see if this loan had credit insurance.

The thing is, when a person passes away, their debts do not go away. Their estate is responsible for paying the debts, either in cash or by liquidating possessions to pay outstanding bills. Once those debts are paid, the remaining estate can be distributed to heirs.

 

[ms1031]

Are there any heirs to the estate that may not agree with you having possession of the car? Who has legal right to it? When the will of the deceased was probated, the vehicle should have been addressed.

Also, if you are not on the actual loan, the bank has every right to take the vehicle, whether you are making the payments or not. You cannot just assume a bank loan by simply taking over payments.

 

[kilee]

you cannot have ownership without financial responsiblity..... in other words your husband would need to be on the loan with gfil in order to be on the title together

Absolutely not true.....my grandfather-in-law was the only person on the loan but my husband was in fact on the title w/ him and the registration was in fact solely in my husbands name. As a matter of fact we have a harley that is financed in my name, titled to me, but registered to my husband. The titled to and registered to do not need to match.

make sure your name is on the title as you say...........however i do not know how you know that because MOST states require that a recorded lien be held by the lender untill paid off which would give you no access to the title to see whos name is on it.

We have the title, so I don't understand this part. However, it does have a lien holder on it. I have always had the title for all my vehicles whether they had a lien holder or not.

I was able to secure my personal property today and the plates from the car--- for a fee of $20.00. The gentleman at the bank kept telling me that he could only speak to my grandfather-in-law because nobody else was set up on the loan to talk to. It was very frustrating.

My grandfather did not leave behind anything....there is no formal estate. He did not have a home (he lived w/ his daughter), he did not have even a life insurance policy. The little he had in savings was gone the week he died to pay for his funeral.

The part that is the most frustrating is I called to verify all of this within the same month he died....then we get nothing but a tow truck showing up to take the car 6 months later after all payments were still made on time. Not even as much as a letter was sent.

This is how economically intelligent this decision was on the bank.......they just incurred the fee to repo the car and want $6200 (ish) to get the car back. There is no estate and the only person on the loan is my grandfather-- so they'll get no money. The car payment was being paid on every month on time. So they were getting their money. Now they don't have their money, nor will they. Also, they now have a car w/ almost 100,000 miles on it that they'll get maybe $1500 for at auction.

Ultimately they will be the ones who took a loss in the end. Our credit will not be effected as we were no where on that loan and cannot be held liable for it. I just don't understand where this was a "smart decision" on their part. I think I'm the angriest because I thought I already resolved this back in May.

 

[kilee]

Are there any heirs to the estate that may not agree with you having possession of the car? Who has legal right to it? When the will of the deceased was probated, the vehicle should have been addressed.

Their were no assets or goods to have a will for, so there was not one. As for any heirs.....no that wasn't the issue. The only person who could of contested would of been one of his children....none of them did.

 

[C.Ann]

Absolutely not true.....my grandfather-in-law was the only person on the loan but my husband was in fact on the title w/ him and the registration was in fact solely in my husbands name. As a matter of fact we have a harley that is financed in my name, titled to me, but registered to my husband. The titled to and registered to do not need to match.



We have the title, so I don't understand this part. However, it does have a lien holder on it. I have always had the title for all my vehicles whether they had a lien holder or not.

I was able to secure my personal property today and the plates from the car--- for a fee of $20.00. The gentleman at the bank kept telling me that he could only speak to my grandfather-in-law because nobody else was set up on the loan to talk to. It was very frustrating.

My grandfather did not leave behind anything....there is no formal estate. He did not have a home (he lived w/ his daughter), he did not have even a life insurance policy. The little he had in savings was gone the week he died to pay for his funeral.

The part that is the most frustrating is I called to verify all of this within the same month he died....then we get nothing but a tow truck showing up to take the car 6 months later after all payments were still made on time. Not even as much as a letter was sent.

This is how economically intelligent this decision was on the bank.......they just incurred the fee to repo the car and want $6200 (ish) to get the car back. There is no estate and the only person on the loan is my grandfather-- so they'll get no money. The car payment was being paid on every month on time. So they were getting their money. Now they don't have their money, nor will they. Also, they now have a car w/ almost 100,000 miles on it that they'll get maybe $1500 for at auction.

Ultimately they will be the ones who took a loss in the end. Our credit will not be effected as we were no where on that loan and cannot be held liable for it. I just don't understand where this was a "smart decision" on their part. I think I'm the angriest because I thought I already resolved this back in May.

I really think you may need to consult a lawyer about this because I seem to recall that once you start paying on a deceased persons debt (which would be the car in your case), you are then legally obligated to continue paying until the loan (or CC or whatever) is paid in full.. Something about your payments meaning you have "assumed responsibility for this debt"..

Like you really needed this with just being sick and all - huh?

Sure hope you can get something straightened out.. What a headache!

 

[bicker]

We have the title, so I don't understand this part. However, it does have a lien holder on it.

Essentially, the lien is why the bank is able to take the car if the debtor deceases.

The gentleman at the bank kept telling me that he could only speak to my grandfather-in-law because nobody else was set up on the loan to talk to. It was very frustrating.

That's why I asked you earlier about the executor. That's who was supposed to talk to the bank and get this worked out for you.

My grandfather did not leave behind anything....there is no formal estate.

Then that's why things got frustrating for you. Without anyone to represent him after your grandfather passed away, there was no one with legal standing to protect the loan from being called in, no one to respond to the call, and no one to prevent the repossession. This really underscores why everyone should have a will, unless they have absolutely no assets or liabilities whatsoever.

Not even as much as a letter was sent.

Again, it's unlikely that no notification was provided. You may simply not know what legal notification was provided.

This is how economically intelligent this decision was on the bank.......

This isn't a financial decision (at least not at its core). Rather, it is a compliance decision. There are rules that a bank must follow, legal rules. Even if those rules end up hurting the bank financially, they still have to follow them.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Absolutely not true.....my grandfather-in-law was the only person on the loan but my husband was in fact on the title w/ him and the registration was in fact solely in my husbands name. As a matter of fact we have a harley that is financed in my name, titled to me, but registered to my husband. The titled to and registered to do not need to match.



We have the title, so I don't understand this part. However, it does have a lien holder on it. I have always had the title for all my vehicles whether they had a lien holder or not.

I was able to secure my personal property today and the plates from the car--- for a fee of $20.00. The gentleman at the bank kept telling me that he could only speak to my grandfather-in-law because nobody else was set up on the loan to talk to. It was very frustrating.

My grandfather did not leave behind anything....there is no formal estate. He did not have a home (he lived w/ his daughter), he did not have even a life insurance policy. The little he had in savings was gone the week he died to pay for his funeral.

The part that is the most frustrating is I called to verify all of this within the same month he died....then we get nothing but a tow truck showing up to take the car 6 months later after all payments were still made on time. Not even as much as a letter was sent.

This is how economically intelligent this decision was on the bank.......they just incurred the fee to repo the car and want $6200 (ish) to get the car back. There is no estate and the only person on the loan is my grandfather-- so they'll get no money. The car payment was being paid on every month on time. So they were getting their money. Now they don't have their money, nor will they. Also, they now have a car w/ almost 100,000 miles on it that they'll get maybe $1500 for at auction.

Ultimately they will be the ones who took a loss in the end. Our credit will not be effected as we were no where on that loan and cannot be held liable for it. I just don't understand where this was a "smart decision" on their part. I think I'm the angriest because I thought I already resolved this back in May.

Sounds like you were upside down on the loan on the car anyway? They did you a favor if the car was 6200 outstanding in debt, right?

At least that is how I am reading your post here.

 

[charming23]

The part that is the most frustrating is I called to verify all of this within the same month he died....then we get nothing but a tow truck showing up to take the car 6 months later after all payments were still made on time. Not even as much as a letter was sent.

Ultimately they will be the ones who took a loss in the end. Our credit will not be effected as we were no where on that loan and cannot be held liable for it. I just don't understand where this was a "smart decision" on their part. I think I'm the angriest because I thought I already resolved this back in May.

Kilee, I agree that the most frustating part is that you did in fact speak with them and that they did nothing at that time and thought everything was resolved. I think it is irresponsible of them to not even send you a letter so that you had warning to work things out.

Also I would make sure that if they do try and "bully" you into paying what is left after auction to consult a lawyer. We talked with our lawyer friend this morning and he said it is illegal for them to harass you if you are not on the loan and the one who was is deceased.

 

[Geoff_M]

My grandfather did not leave behind anything....there is no formal estate. He did not have a home (he lived w/ his daughter), he did not have even a life insurance policy. The little he had in savings was gone the week he died to pay for his funeral.

The part that is the most frustrating is I called to verify all of this within the same month he died....then we get nothing but a tow truck showing up to take the car 6 months later after all payments were still made on time. Not even as much as a letter was sent.

This is how economically intelligent this decision was on the bank.......they just incurred the fee to repo the car and want $6200 (ish) to get the car back. There is no estate and the only person on the loan is my grandfather-- so they'll get no money. The car payment was being paid on every month on time. So they were getting their money. Now they don't have their money, nor will they. Also, they now have a car w/ almost 100,000 miles on it that they'll get maybe $1500 for at auction.

I think it's awful that the person at the bank you first talked to didn't give you the correct answer about what would happen to the car, but I can see the bank's position in all of this. With your GFIL gone, there's no one left that has a legal obligation to pay off the car loan. You've told the bank that you will continue to make the payments, but all the bank has is "your word". While you may be a honorable person and would live up to the pledge, the bank would view this arrangement as leaving them very exposed as there would be no legal contractual relationship between you and them. True, they could still repo the car if you stopped making payments, but down the road the auction price for the car would no doubt be even less than it is now. In their view, it may be best to either demand that the loan be paid off... and if that can't be done, then auction off the car now to recover the maximum amount of money they can at this point in time. It's the old "bird in the hand..." logic.

One other option would seem to be to try and refinance the car and pay off the original loan, but as previously pointed out, even assuming that the $1,500 number is a wholesale price at a dealer auction, it would seem that you're pretty far upside-down on the loan and it's not likely that you'd find many takers for the re-fi.

It sounds to me like you're in a bad spot with not many good options... sorry.

 

[dalt01]

Absolutely not true.....my grandfather-in-law was the only person on the loan but my husband was in fact on the title w/ him and the registration was in fact solely in my husbands name.

Ultimately they will be the ones who took a loss in the end. Our credit will not be effected as we were no where on that loan and cannot be held liable for it.

that is exactly why it IS TRUE in most states if the car quits running you will stop paying and there is nothing they can do about it.........they are cutting their losses and getting the car back while it still has SOME value. as a matter of fact you were allready thinking about that by they wording of the last sentence.

 

[kilee]

Semi-Funny side note to this today. The company that repo'ed the car gave us the wrong plates back. I didn't even pay attention when they handed them to us because I've been sick and was really run down leaving the house for even that little bit.

They called today and said they made a huge mistake and needed those plates back ASAP. I told them that would be fine but I'd have to charge them $20 (the amount the charged me to get them in the first place). The women on the phone actually asked me "why are you being so mean to me".....I was actually just being smart and didn't mean it.

I spoke w/ a finance person at a local large dealership. Only problem is the payments are almost a $100-150 more than we were paying. DH is just starting a new job driving school bus, only thing is it's a PT job for now, they anticipate FT by next September. So, I just don't know about taking an increase in any household expense right now. My FIL said if dh wanted to put new brakes on his mini-van (it's only a few years old) we could use that for awhile (we have 1 car but need 2 for us both to get to work). They took it off the road, because FIL is unable to drive due to a surgery and most likely won't be driving until spring which he'd want it back then. We are thinking of going this route because then we can use our tax return as a down payment to help get a lower payment and we'll have a better idea of dh's pay by then. Also, I'm supposed to be getting another raise come the 1st of the year.

 

[Geoff_M]

Hey, if you have to take the time to take the plate to them, then I think $20 for your time to correct their mistake would be reasonable!

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Hey, if you have to take the time to take the plate to them, then I think $20 for your time to correct their mistake would be reasonable!

I'm with you. The hospital forgot to snip DD's ID bracelet off when we left the hospital when she was born. They had left a message before we even got home. DH took it back but made them give him an extra diaper bag full of goodies for his time.

OP - Sorry you're going through this. And yes, as a Compliance Officer rules are in place for a reason but unfortunately not all situations are the same. I don't know retail banking rules but I can definitely see this being an issue.

And in NJ the title laws are much different. Unless your name is on the loan the vehicle cannot be in your name. Our RV is in my name and I've never driven the thing. In fact, if anything ever happened to DH I'd have to sell it.
And the lien holder maintains the title until it's paid off. I don't have a copy of any title for a vehicle that has a loan on it. There's no need for it as I can't sell the vehicle without the lien holder signing off on it.

Hope things work in favor but to be honest I would go the route of your FIL's van.

 

[dalt01]

I spoke w/ a finance person at a local large dealership.

this is what i do for a living, for about 30 years, i was not trying to give you a hard time. just relating what i have seen thousands of times...............hope were good...........