The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Intr3pid]

Moderna's booster shot results are starting to trickle in, and the early indications are good:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/cov...omising-immune-response-against-variants.html
Some highlights:
* While the booster targets all variants, it is showing promise against the trouble maker - the South African variant.
* We don't yet know what specific numbers we are talking.
* The company is also testing another vaccine that borrows from the original but is targeted specifically at the South African variant. This new vaccine is looking even more promising (again with data yet to be shared):

"The company also said a booster shot of its other vaccine, which it is calling mRNA-1273.351, generated an even better immune response over its current vaccine against the B.1.351 variant from South Africa. The new vaccine is a variant-specific booster shot intended to target B.1.351."

 

[Intr3pid]

Remember Vaxart? Yup, that's the biotech firm developing an oral vaccine. Their Phase 1 data is showing promise.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/data-vaxart-oral-covid-19-210600367.html
"In a comparative experiment conducted by Vaxart, Phase I study data was compared to T-cell responses from volunteers subsequently vaccinated with the Moderna or Pfizer mRNA vaccine, indicating the mRNA vaccines induced fewer T-cell responses."

 

[sabrecmc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1390021205974003720

Biden said as much during the campaign, so nice to see the follow-thru. Will be interesting to see how it all develops.

 

[mevelandry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1390021205974003720

Biden said as much during the campaign, so nice to see the follow-thru. Will be interesting to see how it all develops.

If I understand correctly, it means that other companies would be allowed to make the same vaccines/use the same "recipe"?

(If that's the case, it's amazing!)

 

[Intr3pid]

If I understand correctly, it means that other companies would be allowed to make the same vaccines/use the same "recipe"?

(If that's the case, it's amazing!)

Correct. And in particular, the Indian manufacturers who can churn these out at a breakneck speed.

 

[sethschroeder]

If I understand correctly, it means that other companies would be allowed to make the same vaccines/use the same "recipe"?

(If that's the case, it's amazing!)

I would also be interested if any of these companies complain how much external funding was given for research vs internal funding.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

I would also be interested if any of these companies complain how much external funding was given for research vs internal funding.

Doubt it. They’ve made big $$ back via EU and North American contracts. Through the UN, the WHO has also made sizable purchases. In a way, this absolves the US from its contract language of not donating overage doses to other nations. Bourla (Pfizer CEO) in particular has been saying all the right things about this being a global effort bigger than any one company. Plus, they wouldn’t dare make the PR blunder of speaking out publicly - even if they grumble in the boardroom.

 

[bcwife76]

More good news for Canadians. Per AP the Health regulator will authorize the Pfizer vaccine for 12 and up

https://twitter.com/x/status/1389942280585371651

Yep!
Now our province (British Columbia) has announced they would like to try and get the 12-15 vaccinated with the first dose by the end of June when school ends.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You seem intent on being overly aggressive and trying to twist my words into saying that I’m speaking of everyone not getting vaccinated right now.

That is absolutely not what I’m saying. I said very specifically ANYONE USING THE EUA AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO GET THE VACCINE will likely pivot to a different excuse, i.e. a subset of those currently not getting vaccinated. Not all of them. A part. Not the whole. Greater than zero, less than 100%. I’m not sure how I could state that any more clearly.

Except you don't know that is the case..... There are people that are waiting on actual formal approval of the vaccine.



Well you said



Its fairly clearly that you are 99.999% positive that people just pivot to random excuses it seems. Oh and you threw in a very friendly smile for good measure as well.

Done with this back and forth at this point but I am hardly putting words in your mouth.

So we’ve gone back and forth about what to do and we’ve decided that we are not getting this vaccine regardless. Maybe in ten years when we see how potential autoimmune issues play out. We are not worried about the short term reactions like blood clots or rashes. We are worried about long term damage to the immune system. I do think it is possible that the vaccine is fine, but it is definitely a bit creepy. We’ve had Covid, so we have immunity. Not that we were ever very worried about Covid anyway, 99._% survival rate and all. But really, what gives us pause is the lack of debate. It makes us very uncomfortable that leading doctors who have voiced caution on the vaccine have been silenced. Why? Initially we were actually leaning towards getting it, but we don’t like the inability to discuss potential issues openly. This vaccine changes the definition of vaccine. It is not a regular vaccine. All perspectives on it should be heard. We always get all vaccines otherwise. Flu shot every year etc. But you guys should all be aware that since the vaccine is only under emergency authorization, anyone who gets the vaccine now is actually part of the clinical trials. I personally think it is unconscionable to give it to children at this point. If it was a more deadly disease it might be worse the risk. But this virus is pretty tame in the grand scheme of human existence.

 

[go oilers go]

Vaccine News from Canada: Moderna vaccines coming early. Most of my friends (40-45 yo) who were supposed to become eligible today were able to book appointments yesterday. I know it's just a day early but everyone is really happy. Things are moving faster now. This is all very encouraging.

Still no news about the J&J shots.

Alberta is opening up to 30+ on May 6th, and 12+ on May 10th

 

[mevelandry]

(...) But this virus is pretty tame in the grand scheme of human existence.

The excess mortality due to the virus all around the world in 2020 and 2021 is anything but tame. Especially when we know that in many countries, it's been undercounted.

Also, we cannot simply talk 1% death rate and ignore long haulers.

 

[sabrecmc]

I personally think it is unconscionable to give it to children at this point.

I don't want to get into any kind of debate about the vaccine. I'm glad you made your own decision, but please respect that other parents, like me, made a different assessment of the risks and came to a different a conclusion. Unconscionable is a bit harsh. I don't particularly understand your thinking, particularly when there is the J&J vaccine if you aren't comfortable with the mRNA variety, but I also don't know you or your family and what you might have to deal with in life, so it isn't for me to say. I'm sure you love your children, as I do mine, and want the best for them. It sounds like you gave it a lot of consideration and researched it for yourself. So did I. Like with many things, we have decided differently, but unconscionable? That's awfully judgmental.

 

[Mousequake]

But really, what gives us pause is the lack of debate. It makes us very uncomfortable that leading doctors who have voiced caution on the vaccine have been silenced. Why? Initially we were actually leaning towards getting it, but we don’t like the inability to discuss potential issues openly. This vaccine changes the definition of vaccine. It is not a regular vaccine. All perspectives on it should be heard.

Who are these leading doctors that have been silenced? And, as others have pointed out, if your concern is the new mRNA technology, there's the far more traditional J&J vaccine you can take advantage of.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I don't want to get into any kind of debate about the vaccine. I'm glad you made your own decision, but please respect that other parents, like me, made a different assessment of the risks and came to a different a conclusion. Unconscionable is a bit harsh. I don't particularly understand your thinking, particularly when there is the J&J vaccine if you aren't comfortable with the mRNA variety, but I also don't know you or your family and what you might have to deal with in life, so it isn't for me to say. I'm sure you love your children, as I do mine, and want the best for them. It sounds like you gave it a lot of consideration and researched it for yourself. So did I. Like with many things, we have decided differently, but unconscionable? That's awfully judgmental.

I do agree that parents should be able to make their own decisions concerning their own children. It is not parents I hold responsible for the vaccine situation but governments and drug companies. I do not think they should be doing trials on children at this point. I do think they should wait for a few years to see what happens with adults. I also used to think that the J and J vaccine was safer and does not use mRNA. But then I started reading more about it and it uses a very similar mechanism. My concern with these vaccines is long term autoimmune issues and dementia related illnesses. If you google this, you will find endless articles saying, “nothing to see here,” but, if you did deeper, you find well established scientists urging caution. Believe me, I hope there is nothing to see here. And I do think we are all adults and should make our own decisions. But I do not think we should be coerced, forced, or manipulated into making a particular decision. This discussion should be much more transparent.

 

[mevelandry]

Quebec (Canada) Vaccine News:

-All kids 12-17 yo will receive a first dose before the end of June.

-Everyone who has received at least one shot will receive a QR Code proof of vaccine.

I'm still hopeful that they might be able to resume cruising for folliage season.

 

[ford91exploder]

Who are these leading doctors that have been silenced? And, as others have pointed out, if your concern is the new mRNA technology, there's the far more traditional J&J vaccine you can take advantage of.

plus the mRNA vaccines have been the basis of cancer vaccines for the last decade so by no means 'new', Plus the virii that the mRNA vaccines are working to create immunity for are RNA based virii so it makes sense to use a mRNA vaccine instead of using a 'killed' virus because the mRNA can be effective against classes of virii instead of a specific virus

 

[ford91exploder]

Also CLEAR and a company called gogetvax are both working on a secure method of showing that you have been vaccinated and be able to store that proof in a apple or google wallet

 

[ford91exploder]

I do agree that parents should be able to make their own decisions concerning their own children. It is not parents I hold responsible for the vaccine situation but governments and drug companies. I do not think they should be doing trials on children at this point. I do think they should wait for a few years to see what happens with adults. I also used to think that the J and J vaccine was safer and does not use mRNA. But then I started reading more about it and it uses a very similar mechanism. My concern with these vaccines is long term autoimmune issues and dementia related illnesses. If you google this, you will find endless articles saying, “nothing to see here,” but, if you did deeper, you find well established scientists urging caution. Believe me, I hope there is nothing to see here. And I do think we are all adults and should make our own decisions. But I do not think we should be coerced, forced, or manipulated into making a particular decision. This discussion should be much more transparent.

Here's the problem we are all unique, Medicine still is as much art as science so for some there WILL be bad outcomes from vaccines but overall its a win

 

[Maggie'sMom]

I do agree that parents should be able to make their own decisions concerning their own children. It is not parents I hold responsible for the vaccine situation but governments and drug companies. I do not think they should be doing trials on children at this point. I do think they should wait for a few years to see what happens with adults. I also used to think that the J and J vaccine was safer and does not use mRNA. But then I started reading more about it and it uses a very similar mechanism. My concern with these vaccines is long term autoimmune issues and dementia related illnesses. If you google this, you will find endless articles saying, “nothing to see here,” but, if you did deeper, you find well established scientists urging caution. Believe me, I hope there is nothing to see here. And I do think we are all adults and should make our own decisions. But I do not think we should be coerced, forced, or manipulated into making a particular decision. This discussion should be much more transparent.

It's not like the mRNA technology was completely new and unstudied until this year. Research began in 1989 and picked up steam when it was being studied for the first SARS virus that appeared in 2002 and then MERS in 2012.

The wave hitting India now is affecting youger people, and there is concern a third wave in India will hit even younger children harder. Do we sit and wait for the death rates amoung children to skyrocket before we begin studies? It's being proven safe and effective amoung adults and teens. There's nothing to indicate it won't be the same in children, so it would be irresponsible to delay clinical trials in kids.

The incidence of adverse effects from the vaccine is far less than the incidence of adverse effects from getting COVID. A friend of mine was telling me about a couple she is friends with. Both had moderate cases of COVID. Felt horrible for a couple weeks but didn't go to the hospital. They got better and felt perfectly fine for a few weeks, then the husband developed multiple blood clots in his lungs and was hospitalized for 2 weeks. My sister in law had a mild case of COVID back in November, but has been dealing with severe GI issues ever since and has had 2 trips to the ER due to those problems. A family friend had COVID back in October, wasn't hospitalized for it, but is a long hauler and can't climb a flight of stairs without being out of breath.

 

[sethschroeder]

not like the mRNA technology was completely new and unstudied until this year. Research began in 1989 and picked up steam when it was being studied for the first SARS virus that appeared in 2002 and then MERS in 2012.

This should be very clear though. There is a large difference between smaller studies and smaller use cases compared to full global usage.

Is it new? No

Is it new from the standpoint of wide usage? Yes

And I have been vaccinated and had covid19 prior to being vaccinated.