The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[sethschroeder]

not felt a need to go be a zombie and eat brains.

Eh don't trust them probably just saying that to get at your juicy brains. hahaha

 

[sullivan.kscott]

Thank you. Much appreciated.
Are the newer flu shots you speak of all non-egg whites preserved? I'll check with my family doc.
Are you a physician ? you sound very knowledgeable

I’m a health professional, but not a physician. I’m blessed to have a wife at home who is way smarter than myself tied to pharmaceutical research as a consultant.
As to all flu shots and their method of manufacture, I don’t know. It’s why I suggest speaking to someone locally.

here’s a quick rundown on the new methodology:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/cell-based.htm

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Eh don't trust them probably just saying that to get at your juicy brains. hahaha

Nah, she can be distracted by Korean BBQ. She also is on a COVID ward so all communications is screen based, as you can imagine.

 

[cmph]

Will do. And don’t blame you at all. If you, or anyone else, is at all up to it, I’d strongly urge trying the flu vaccine again. Since you last got it, they’ve made some pretty big advances, the biggest being growth media for the virus itself. As opposed to egg whites preserved in thimerosol (which were culprits for a lot of the garbage feelings I can fully relate to), most manufacturers now use plant cell growth media that is far better tolerated. As an added benefit, people with egg sensitivity like my wife are now eligible for the newer vaccines.
This year’s flu shot is a “quad” (four strains), so the injection site side effects have been reported to be a little more pronounced, but being laid up in bed like days of old hasn’t been a widely reported issue.
Not trying to sway one way or the other unless you have a history of pneumonia or something. But definitely talk to your PCP or pharmacist.

I'd also love to know your experience! 10 days until I get the vaccine. I have (knock on wood) never had a reaction to a vaccine other than maybe a sore arm for a day or 2, and I get my seasonal flu vaccine religiously each year. I didn't even have any soreness this year, so that's interesting that some have had more side effects. Pulling the band-aid off was by far the worst of it!

 

[Canadian Girl]

There is a big difference between reacting to a vaccine and the effects of your body building immunity. Sometimes people also coincidently pick up a virus around the same time they are vaccinated and think it’s from the shot. Adverse reactions happen within a few minutes from what I understand. And it takes a couple of weeks to be protected from the flu after vaccination. Some Covid shots require 2 doses. I plan to get it even though I have some drug allergies. Never had a bad reaction to a vaccine at the time I received it though. Fingers crossed. I want to cruise again.

 

[Snowwhyt]

I wanted to ask, if by “required” are you all talking about excluding people who can not for health reasons get the vaccine? I’m guessing we will have a vaccine that will eventually be safe for almost everyone. But still some people are living on the edge and might be too risky. (Maybe my just dad according to our doctor)
But I wonder if a religion doesn’t allow the shots, then the religion could advise you to avoid places that require the shot? Or get a shot with forgiveness? I’m just looking at “Required” problems.

Interesting side note as all this rolls out. A physician friend of mine said that "if you really want it soon, you'll probably be able to get it". The point is that even in the healthcare settings, something like 60-70% of people are wanting to take it initially and because it's under an EUA, they can't require it. So, the thing with Pfizer, apparently, is that once these vials come out of the freezer/box, they have a limited amount of time to give out the shots. If they go through the list of "approved" people and some decline and there is an amount left over, they will use it on whomever.

Now, this is probably a few weeks down the road, but is what they were being told by the Dept. of Public Health, was to have a backup plan to make sure that none of the vaccine is "wasted".

I’m so surprised by this. I was just at the hospital on Friday and my doctor told me her and her staff are not able to get the vaccine yet. She said their hospital was unable to receive the first shipment so they will wait for the the next and maybe they will be included in that one. It is a teaching hospital in Milwaukee so maybe that is a reason to be lower on the list? They will not receive the Pfizer vaccine there is just not enough.
So send those extra/wasted shots to Wisconsin! The hospital’s new advertising moto is “Find a comfy chair in the waiting room, because we we are going treat you right there. Our hallways are full but we will squeeze you in!” Actually it’s bad, but we do have a place at the state fair grounds just down from the animal barns where we can get free medical attention unless we have to be moved to a hospital.
It’s so weird the variety of death, infections and restrictions are from state to state.

 

[AquaDame]

I wanted to ask, if by “required” are you all talking about excluding people who can not for health reasons get the vaccine? I’m guessing we will have a vaccine that will eventually be safe for almost everyone. But still some people are living on the edge and might be too risky. (Maybe my just dad according to our doctor)
But I wonder if a religion doesn’t allow the shots, then the religion could advise you to avoid places that require the shot? Or get a shot with forgiveness? I’m just looking at “Required” problems.

Personally, I do think IF they decide to make it required here in the US then yes, it won't matter why you can't take it - at least to start. I don't think they will unless it is absolutely necessary. Once things are better under control I can see them loosening guidelines as quickly as possible. I do honestly think other nations will be more stringent, especially when it comes to travel. New Zealand for example made certain to secure enough vaccines for every citizen AND enough for their surrounding islands AND a few other countries they intend to create a bubble with so their people have somewhere to vacation. No way they will go to such lengths just to let anyone in without it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...rus-vaccines-to-residents-neighboring-nations

 

[jane01jp]

Personally, I do think IF they decide to make it required here in the US then yes, it won't matter why you can't take it - at least to start. I don't think they will unless it is absolutely necessary. Once things are better under control I can see them loosening guidelines as quickly as possible. I do honestly think other nations will be more stringent, especially when it comes to travel. New Zealand for example made certain to secure enough vaccines for every citizen AND enough for their surrounding islands AND a few other countries they intend to create a bubble with so their people have somewhere to vacation. No way they will go to such lengths just to let anyone in without it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...rus-vaccines-to-residents-neighboring-nations

With all due respect, who is the "they" that will require the vaccine? Isn't this country governed by the people? I would much prefer to refer to it as if we require the vaccine. I know this may sound pedantic to many on this board, but can't we at least maintain the illusion of a government of the people, by the people, and for the people?

 

[sullivan.kscott]

I wanted to ask, if by “required” are you all talking about excluding people who can not for health reasons get the vaccine? I’m guessing we will have a vaccine that will eventually be safe for almost everyone. But still some people are living on the edge and might be too risky. (Maybe my just dad according to our doctor)
But I wonder if a religion doesn’t allow the shots, then the religion could advise you to avoid places that require the shot? Or get a shot with forgiveness? I’m just looking at “Required” problems.

I agree with @AquaDame on this. At first, no exceptions can be allowed in order to create a bubble. If cruises wanted to go this route to provide a more normal/less restricted experience prior to the pandemic being over, then this will have to be the way. Once the pandemic either wanes or ends, we'll likely see loosening of such requirements. Remember, of course, that these are private companies and not government entities. Much like the no shoes/no shirt rules, they could enact something like this and quickly update their ticket contracts. I see concert halls, sports, and Broadway going the same way if they want a more timely return, so long as those businesses can find a way to securely verify status without requiring other health history. School vaccination forms, for example, don't divulge a student's entire history and are within HIPAA and FERPA guidelines.

As far as WHO is requiring it, I really think it will be the port authorities of the small nations in the Caribbean. Having spent a couple years living in the Dominican Republic, there is just no way their health system can manage a major outbreak. Sure, there have been cases and deaths, but they've been very fortunate in being able to isolate and control. Their governments won't want to jeopardize that when there's a vaccine available, experimental still or not. Our territories are receiving vaccine but still have some level of sovereignty in regards to entry/exit requirements, so I wouldn't be surprised if USVI and Puerto Rico had some vaccine or quarantine mandate.

Our Canadian friends can be more precise with this, but my understanding is that they have purchase agreements for their population five times over. They have every intention of sharing the excess, and with the loose ties to the Commonwealth could easily prioritize the Caymans, Jamaica, and BVI. The UK could theoretically do the same with their excess purchases. Point being theses nations could begin vaccinating their citizens, as well, and might prioritize tour operators after their health staffs because of the massive impact on their economies.

When it comes to the US government, or our individual states, it gets a little murky because of the EUA designation right now. But the most feasible possibility I can imagine would be either the CDC or State Department requiring vaccine or quarantine for re-entry after international travel. With a few exceptions, international travel is by definition not essential and may be subject to tighter restrictions than free movement within your community or the nation. So, Florida (or whatever home port state) residents might have it easy, but families like mine couldn't get off a cruise ship and board a plane without fulfilling one of the requirements. Individual states, while largely unenforceable like now, could have similar travel requirements with fines for breaking quarantine. I think incentives work better, so maybe WA (random example) could give travelers a WA winery gift card for arriving vaccinated from any other state.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

Also, for those interested:

After 24 hours, my soreness is nonexistent unless I purposefully feel the injection site. No visible bruising, and the tenderness never got worse than a sibling playing "slug bug" during a road trip (is my age showing? ). Out of curiosity, I checked my temp before bed and this morning to catch even a low-grade fever. Nothing.

Dose two is scheduled for 1/8. So, unless something changes between now and then that proves to be vaccine related, I'll post a personal experience update then.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

There is a big difference between reacting to a vaccine and the effects of your body building immunity. Sometimes people also coincidently pick up a virus around the same time they are vaccinated and think it’s from the shot. Adverse reactions happen within a few minutes from what I understand. And it takes a couple of weeks to be protected from the flu after vaccination. Some Covid shots require 2 doses. I plan to get it even though I have some drug allergies. Never had a bad reaction to a vaccine at the time I received it though. Fingers crossed. I want to cruise again.

Yeah, I do wish we had a better term than the blanket "adverse event reporting." You're spot on that if someone puts a needle even into the fattier part of you're muscle, there's bound to be a little bruising or swelling. Low-grade fever, sometimes even requiring Advil or Tylenol, is a by-product of the increased activity (metabolism) of the immune system learning something new. Also true that full protection takes "a minute," as they say in the South. According to phase 3 data on the two vaccines currently authorized it's at full effect roughly two weeks after second dose, with some perceived level of protection as early as nine days from dose one (though studies, by design, can't confirm that).

Just let the pharmacist or clinic staff (wherever you end up getting it) know about your allergy history. At my hospital we had a holding room of sorts where we all had to sit surfing our phones for 15 minutes. They ask the same at our CVS/Target when we get the flu shot, but so long as we're in store it's Kosher.

 

[lanejudy]

With all due respect, who is the "they" that will require the vaccine?

“They” in this context can have a rather broad meaning and not necessarily the US. I do not expect US government to require vaccination during EUA status. However for non-essentials (which includes cruising) it may be possible that a business entity (i.e. DCL, RCCL, etc.) could require vaccination without exceptions regardless of reason. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if other countries (such as port stops or non-US embarkation) might require vaccination for international travel to enter that country.

 

[DisneYE]

With all due respect, who is the "they" that will require the vaccine? Isn't this country governed by the people? I would much prefer to refer to it as if we require the vaccine. I know this may sound pedantic to many on this board, but can't we at least maintain the illusion of a government of the people, by the people, and for the people?

Airlines, cruises, professional sports and concert venues, and yes, even employers.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...s-can-require-workers-to-get-covid-19-vaccine
I don't agree with that measure at all, I believe in people's freedom of choice, but its coming.
I know, you're going to say that it infringes on the US Constitution , and you would be correct.
But the constitution gets flouted everyday, in various degrees, by all kinds of ppl & institutions, so it's moot.
Theres nothing you can do. I mean, you could vote people or parties out, but things remain the same.

Anyway, there is a crisis, they will impose the vaccines on certain instances and industries. Its coming.
And I will take it, because I miss traveling, I travel for my business and I miss cruising.
It is what it is.
I just hope this nightmare ends with the vaccines.

 

[DisneYE]

Also, for those interested:

After 24 hours, my soreness is nonexistent unless I purposefully feel the injection site. No visible bruising, and the tenderness never got worse than a sibling playing "slug bug" during a road trip (is my age showing? ). Out of curiosity, I checked my temp before bed and this morning to catch even a low-grade fever. Nothing.

Dose two is scheduled for 1/8. So, unless something changes between now and then that proves to be vaccine related, I'll post a personal experience update then.

Good to hear.
No effects whatsoever? No headaches, sniffles, coughs?
If so, that's great news.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

Good to hear.
No effects whatsoever? No headaches, sniffles, coughs?
If so, that's great news.

Nothing to report. A case of no news being good news. I’m glad to be boring in this instance

 

[DisneYE]

“They” in this context can have a rather broad meaning and not necessarily the US. I do not expect US government to require vaccination during EUA status. However for non-essentials (which includes cruising) it may be possible that a business entity (i.e. DCL, RCCL, etc.) could require vaccination without exceptions regardless of reason. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if other countries (such as port stops or non-US embarkation) might require vaccination for international travel to enter that country.

Certain countries, if not most, will definitely require the vaccine.
Brazil requires a yellow fever card to get into the country. Others as well, but I say Brazil bc I remember the struggle to get the card when I traveled there a few years ago.
CV is much more widespread than yellow fever, so yeah, expect several nations to ask for a proof of cv vaccine to let you in.

 

[AquaDame]

With all due respect, who is the "they" that will require the vaccine? Isn't this country governed by the people? I would much prefer to refer to it as if we require the vaccine. I know this may sound pedantic to many on this board, but can't we at least maintain the illusion of a government of the people, by the people, and for the people?

As others have said 'they' was used because at present there is no requirement from any entity to have the vaccine. At present it might be a government (ours or another) or businesses, or schools (eventually), or our workplaces, etc etc, that could and maybe would require it. I chose 'they' because it is all inclusive and vague.

Since you pointed it out though I did take a moment just now to consider the "we" and I think I still stubbornly wouldn't use it. Frankly I think one of our issues right now is that we have NOT come together of one mind - each state and even sometimes each county has been making their own decisions on how to tackle the virus. I don't have any reason to assume it will be different when the vaccine comes around that our federal government, made up of ALL of us, will overrule what the States themselves wish to do.

 

[disneyholic family]

DH and i are getting our pfizer vaccines (first dose) on Wednesday morning.
I'll let you know how it was (like if i grow horns or something )
Although from what i understand, the significant side effects hit with the second dose.
But they also disappear after about 24 hours.
Still better than getting the disease (given that i'm 65 and about 35 pounds overweight)
.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Will do. And don’t blame you at all. If you, or anyone else, is at all up to it, I’d strongly urge trying the flu vaccine again. Since you last got it, they’ve made some pretty big advances, the biggest being growth media for the virus itself. As opposed to egg whites preserved in thimerosol (which were culprits for a lot of the garbage feelings I can fully relate to), most manufacturers now use plant cell growth media that is far better tolerated. As an added benefit, people with egg sensitivity like my wife are now eligible for the newer vaccines.
This year’s flu shot is a “quad” (four strains), so the injection site side effects have been reported to be a little more pronounced, but being laid up in bed like days of old hasn’t been a widely reported issue.
Not trying to sway one way or the other unless you have a history of pneumonia or something. But definitely talk to your PCP or pharmacist.

My employer (hospital) also gave us this quadrivalent flu vaccine this year. I've never had anything more than a sore arm from vaccines but we're all different.

 

[sethschroeder]

Theres nothing you can do. I mean, you could vote people or parties out, but things remain the same.

Actually there is. You don't get one.

I know people taking a wait a see approach as things roll out but if the Federal government mandates then 0% chance they get it. I could see states even stepping up and fighting the policy.

Not happening and part of it will be politics. Mandating the vaccine kills any intital momentum Democrats have starting in January. Sure they might bring it up but it won't go anywhere likely more of a threat for other restriction concessions.

I doubt every Democrat in the House and Senate approve it and I doubt any Republican does. Sure Biden tries to pull an end around with an executive order but then the Supreme Court can rule it unconstitutional or Congress overturn it.