The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Mousequake]

Guys, you do know that Wikipedia is not a real encyclopedia and that it is edited by anyone who has an axe to grind and wants to edit it. One of the founders of Wikipedia has also lamented that it has been hijacked by Leftists. Not my language but his. I don’t have any personal feelings on Wikipedia except that it is not a serious source. I can tell you that my teenage son edits Wikipedia all the time. Lol.
But what you have both done here is the problem with our world today. People just label people and their ideas in order to dismiss them. I’ve just said that there are other ideas out there and that we might want to give those ideas a full hearing. And what happens? People very aggressively try to shut me down. Believe me, as I’ve said, I pray that those vaccines work and do not have any long term side effects. But for now, I’m exercising caution. What’s the rush? And there is no way I will vaccinate my kids. And my kids are currently vaccinated for everything else. But more people have died from these vaccines in the last few months than have died from all combined vaccines in the last 20 years. That is actual data from VARES. And yet if you google it, you will find many msm articles about how it is not true. Why would the news report that when the data is right there? It is truly bizarre. It is all very strange.

So in the very same post, you're criticizing Wikipedia as an unreliable data source, then citing VAERS as your data source?

This is their own disclaimer on the VAERS database:

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

Famously, VAERS once contained an entry claiming that a vaccine turned someone into the Incredible Hulk because he wanted to show that anyone could enter anything with no verification. The only reason it's not still in there is he lobbied VAERS to remove it. It is one of the least reliable sources out there. VAERS is the Wikipedia of vaccines, without the ability to link to external sources for verification.

 

[soniam]

CVS is allowing appointments for 12+ for anyone interested.

Got one for son on Friday. He will just barely get his 2nd before heading to the grandparents for a month. He will be fully vaccinated before our July trip!!!! It's a big load off of my mind.

 

[anricat]

This chart is so fantastic from today. Red is placebo (unvaccinated) and blue is vaccinated. Just 10 days after done one and BAM flat line. These vaccines are incredibly effective in this age group.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

This chart is so fantastic from today. Red is placebo (unvaccinated) and blue is vaccinated. Just 10 days after done one and BAM flat line. These vaccines are incredibly effective in this age group.

This age group has had no issues with the virus all year, it’s not because of the vaccine. Efficacy trials can be misleading.

For illustration sake, let’s say 20 people are in the trial, 10 vaccinated, 10 placebo. Neither the doctors or patients know who is getting what during the study. No one is intentionally exposed to the virus to see if it worksheet, as that would be unethical if someone with the placebo was infected with COVID intentionally and died.

The results depend entirely on if the participants go anywhere or sit at home all day during the trial. If everyone sat at home and never left, you’d most likely get 100% efficacy, but it’s effective because no one was ever exposed to anyone or went outside their home.

Some I’ll informed politicians actually said people were distributing less effective vaccine to black communities because they dont care about black people, referring to J&J. Well, the J&J trials were done in late fall, early winter in South Africa and Brazil, and the efficacy % was based on battling the crazy NEW variants, not the original like Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were trialed against early summer 2020 here.

 

[BlueBayou]

I’m actually looking forward and wondering booster need/availability. My “kids” (barely 18 and 20) get their second Moderna this week. My DH and I both had Pfizer- I got my second dose in February.

By the time our merrytime cruise rolls around - I’ll we 10 months out from my second dose. Will it be booster time?

And while we are talking antidotal- My mom’s closest friend died from COVID the week before vaccines became available. My dad’s cousin’s wife died two months ago. And in January a former coworker’s wife in her 40s died. Now I know 20 or more people who recovered fine. And a couple of long haulers.

Bottom line - I’ve never know people to die like this from flu. My mom’s been hospitalized (extreme high risk) and a child from my church almost died from N1H1. It is just not the same as the toll COVID is taking.

 

[Trera]

I’m actually looking forward and wondering booster need/availability. My “kids” (barely 18 and 20) get their second Moderna this week. My DH and I both had Pfizer- I got my second dose in February.

By the time our merrytime cruise rolls around - I’ll we 10 months out from my second dose. Will it be booster time?

And while we are talking antidotal- My mom’s closest friend died from COVID the week before vaccines became available. My dad’s cousin’s wife died two months ago. And in January a former coworker’s wife in her 40s died. Now I know 20 or more people who recovered fine. And a couple of long haulers.

Bottom line - I’ve never know people to die like this from flu. My mom’s been hospitalized (extreme high risk) and a child from my church almost died from N1H1. It is just not the same as the toll COVID is taking.

That is why I don't think things will be back to normal as soon as some others in this thread. The transmission and new cases will slow with the vaccine but the virus is still going to be out there. I think an earlier poster said they knew a couple of people that had gotten the virus a second time.

 

[Birdie dog]

Isn't that the case with everything? I personally know 2 people and know of at least 10 more through my sister that have had reactions to the vaccine. Some of them very severe and at least 2 that have died right after having the vaccine that were perfectly healthy prior to taking it. Because the numbers of people having bad reactions to the vaccine are so low we are told to ignore that because of the greater good. And to your point that is all fine and well until its you or a loved one. So it goes both ways...

Also, I hope your friends are able to get well soon! Nothing stinks more than going from healthy to debilitated & I truly hope they are able to recover.

In my experience that's just not true. I'm a ER charge nurse in a large hospital system. I received my first vaccine (along with hundreds of co-workers) in December. I was fully vaccinated in January. I personally have given hundreds of vaccines at vaccine clinics that have vaccinated probably 10 thousand people. (We offer a drive through vaccine clinic). I've seen *one* allergic reaction that was not severe. I've seen multiple people check in to the ER for headaches etc because they're paranoid they have a blood clot or stroke from their vaccination and every one of them have had a negative workup. So you knowing 10 people with "severe reactions and two that have died" is not only very skewed numbers from what I've personally witnessed but way above the national average.

 

[Birdie dog]

I really don't think there will be much that will be limited at all or even for long. Even international travel is looking like you can travel with a negative test if you haven't been vaccinated. The only thing that will most likely be limited is cruising and even that I don't think will be for too long.

The numbers are dropping quickly and when the numbers are low there will be no reason to require a vaccination for anything. Maybe for travel to a hotspot but otherwise no need.

You realise the reason numbers are dropping is because of the vaccine right? So saying, with numbers dropping so quickly, there will be no need for the vaccine is absolutely untrue.

 

[tink2424]

Or maybe they'll require them for a long time to make sure the numbers stay low.

Always a possibility but why ruin your economy over it if the risk is very low? There is a lot of money involved and a lot of risk involved to put these restrictions on businesses or even to employ staff by the government to check these things. Furthermore as I said there is always a testing option so either way it doesn't bother me so much.

 

[Trera]

The Covid vaccine will probably just become like the flu vaccine...............you will get a booster each year to account for any current variant or to boost any fading antibodies.

 

[sabrecmc]

I was able to get my daughter an appointment for tomorrow at our local CVS, though all the appointments are gone for now. I'm sure more will open up soon. Still, good to see. She will be fully vaccinated by our trip to Disney in late June, so I'm very excited for that. If they start cruising again with vaccinated ships, we would love to be on one! Hopefully, soon. My July 2, 2021 cruise still hasn't been canceled, but I don't expect it to sail.

 

[tink2424]

So in the very same post, you're criticizing Wikipedia as an unreliable data source, then citing VAERS as your data source?

This is their own disclaimer on the VAERS database:



Famously, VAERS once contained an entry claiming that a vaccine turned someone into the Incredible Hulk because he wanted to show that anyone could enter anything with no verification. The only reason it's not still in there is he lobbied VAERS to remove it. It is one of the least reliable sources out there. VAERS is the Wikipedia of vaccines, without the ability to link to external sources for verification.

So, what other source would you go to for adverse events? VAERS is considered THE source once a vaccine is on the market. And yes, you are correct that there is no verification. Even in studies ALL events are recorded regardless of whether or not an investigator thinks they are drug related or not. Then in the risk profile events that occur to 2% or greater of the population are included. VAERS is NOT the wikipedia of vaccines, not even close!

 

[tink2424]

In my experience that's just not true. I'm a charge nurse in a large hospital system. I received my first vaccine (along with hundreds of co-workers) in December. I was fully vaccinated in January. I personally have given hundreds of vaccines at vaccine clinics that have vaccinated probably 10 thousand people. (We offer a drive through vaccine clinic). I've seen *one* allergic reaction that was not severe. I've seen multiple people check in to the ER for headaches etc because they're paranoid they have a blood clot or stroke from their vaccination and every one of them have had a negative workup. So you knowing 10 people with "severe reactions and two that have died" is not only very skewed numbers from what I've personally witnessed but way above the national average.

Again, it really doesn't matter what you or I "experience"... It comes down to the data and the fact is that there are some people who are dying and some people who are being severely debilitated by the vaccines. That is a FACT & as a nurse this should be no surprise to you as all interventions have side effects and they are severe for SOME.

The same thing can be said for COVID. There are SOME that are have died and some that have had severe outcomes. So now a person needs to decide for themselves what risk they are willing to take.

And one last point about "skewed numbers", you are only seeing part of the equation. Many of the people that have died are not dying within the 15 minute observation period but within a few days/weeks from administration. And because doctors have been told that vaccines are perfectly safe they don't even think to link the 2. So we are far from perfect with identifying these cases.

 

[tink2424]

You realise the reason numbers are dropping is because of the vaccine right? So saying, with numbers dropping so quickly, there will be no need for the vaccine is absolutely untrue.

I'm not talking about the vaccine here. I'm talking about a requirement to have had the vaccine to participate in a certain activity. Not the same thing...

 

[Birdie dog]

That is a FACT & as a nurse this should be no surprise to you as all interventions have side effects and they are severe for SOME.

You gave specific numbers that are very much not in line with national averages. As a nurse *I* do know that is problematic. Not for the national average- but for your numbers.

 

[Birdie dog]

I'm not talking about the vaccine here. I'm talking about a requirement to have had the vaccine to participate in a certain activity. Not the same thing...

It is absolutely the same thing. The reason the numbers have dropped is because of the vaccine. Saying "the requirement to be vaccinated" should go away because numbers have dropped due to vaccines does not make sense. Once you have 1000 unvaccinated people on a ship and one pops positive, how many will be positive by the end of the sailing? On Diamond Princess the number was 800 plus with 10 deaths.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

It is absolutely the same thing. The reason the numbers have dropped is because of the vaccine. Saying "the requirement to be vaccinated" should go away because numbers have dropped due to vaccines does not make sense. Once you have 1000 unvaccinated people on a ship and one pops positive, how many will be positive by the end of the sailing? On Diamond Princess the number was 800 plus with 10 deaths.

No one knew how it transmitted then, what the symptoms were to look for.

In Ohio, only 1/3 of the population is vaccinated, majority being old people and our case numbers are around 139/100,000.

Our Governor announced yesterday he’s dropping all covid health orders June 2, but that’s also because the Ohio legislature was going to override him on June 23.

For every nurse, doctor, health official that says vaccines are responsible for the drop, there’s a set that says it isn’t.

 

[mevelandry]

Always a possibility but why ruin your economy over it if the risk is very low? There is a lot of money involved and a lot of risk involved to put these restrictions on businesses or even to employ staff by the government to check these things. Furthermore as I said there is always a testing option so either way it doesn't bother me so much.

I don't think it's going to ruin the economy.

In certain parts of the world the vaccines are very popular. (Example: Here in Quebec (Canada), most eligible categories seem to be on their way to reach 80 to 92% vaccination rate).

I'm sure there will be enough vaccinated people to fill up cruise ships.

But it's my opinion/my personal prediction. Time will tell.

 

[Birdie dog]

No one knew how it transmitted then, what the symptoms were to look for.

What symptoms are you looking for? Cough, fever, lost of taste or smell? How about small bowel obstructions, altered mental status, or weakness? The "symptoms you didn't know what to look for" are typical symptoms. There are atypical symptoms, mild symptoms, and asymptomatic carriers. There are also people who won't report mild symptoms or take Tylenol for their fever, "because I paid for this trip". If the ship is vaccinated, no problem. If any number of people are not, then problem.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

A dissenting view on the question of “will we need periodic booster shots after the initial immunization?”...the answer is “maybe”, and not necessarily “yes”:

“Some of these scientists expressed concern that public expectations around COVID-19 boosters are being set by pharmaceutical executives rather than health specialists, although many agreed that preparing for such a need as a precaution was prudent.

...We don't see the data yet that would inform a decision about whether or not booster doses are needed," said Kate O'Brien, director of the Department of Immunization, Vaccines and Biologicals at the World Health Organization (WHO).

..."It's completely inappropriate to say that we're likely to need an annual booster, because we have no idea what the likelihood of that is," Frieden, who now leads the global public health initiative Resolve to Save Lives, said of Pfizer's assertions on boosters.

Pfizer, responding to the criticism, said it expects a need for boosters while the virus is still circulating widely. That could change once the pandemic is more firmly under control, a company spokeswoman said

..."It's quite possible" that boosters would not be needed, Fauci told Reuters. "It is conceivable that the variants will not be as much a problem with a really good vaccine as we might have anticipated."

...Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease doctor at the University of California, San Francisco, said ultimately, decisions on whether boosters will be needed "will best be made by public health experts, rather than CEOs of a company who may benefit financially."

I myself had assumed that the data showed that we will need booster shots. I find it interesting that that is not actually a foregone conclusion...yet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-scientists-covid-19-booster-100317523.html