The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[wideeyedwonder]

This may be good news for Canada and other places that have wider time spacing between the two injections needed for some vaccines, due to supply and/or policy (note that the study has not yet been peer reviewed):

Delayed second Pfizer COVID-19 shot produces more antibodies - study

“The study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, looked at 175 people aged between 80 and 99, and found that extending the second dose interval to 12 weeks increased the peak antibody response 3.5-fold compared to those who had it at three weeks.

Antibodies are one part of the immune system, and vaccines also generate T cells. The peak T cell responses were higher in the group with a 3 week interval between doses, and the authors warned against drawing conclusions on how protected individuals were based on which dosing schedule they received. “

https://www.yahoo.com/news/delayed-second-pfizer-covid-19-230806800.html

 

[HiStitch626]

Would you agree or disagree with that decision? If the vaccine works, why would you have to wear a mask in those means of transit?

It works, but there is still a chance that you can get the virus and pass it on. It's a much smaller chance, but still possible. It's an enclosed space with people who are not in your family. In the case of local mass transit, there is also a lot of movement in and out of buses and trains, so more people come in contact with each other.

Vaccines are a huge help, but gaps still exists which is why there are measles outbreaks now and then. It took almost 200 years to eradicate smallpox and it has taken 65 years to eradicate polio (well, almost, wild polio now only exists in Afghanistan and Pakistan).

 

[DCLMP]

duplicate

 

[wideeyedwonder]

Thats the kind of conflicting CDC guidelines that make zero sense.

I don’t expect any government agency or any significantly large or powerful organization or group to make sense 100% of the time.

PS: Like him or hate him, Bill Maher just tested positive and he’s fully vaccinated, but asymptomatic. His studio does weekly PCR tests, which is how they found out.

Not unexpected, as a 66% effective rate (J&J) or a 95% effective rate (Pfizer, Moderna) still means that *some* will still be infected, although with a much smaller chance, and much less severe symptoms (or no symptoms), and with very little chance of infecting others.

 

[DCLMP]

I fixed it for you. Masks are still recommended for non vaccinated people.
The new guidelines also do not include transportation like airplanes, subways, etc.

Please do not edit what I post. That should be against the rules. I can tolerate a lot, but please do not edit what I type and then say you fixed it for me. I don't if that is against forum rules, but it should be.

 

[AquaDame]

Please do not edit what I post. That should be against the rules. I can tolerate a lot, but please do not edit what I type and then say you fixed it for me. I don't if that is against forum rules, but it should be.

It's not, and at least they did bold what they changed/admitted they messed with it right there, but I agree that can easily be in bad taste and probably should be avoided... TFTFY definitly comes across as condescending. They could have easily just mentioned that your statement was for VACCINATED individuals without editing it. As I said a bit ago this thread is getting too heated... I already had to delete another mask debate comment. Lets take a pause until tomorrow on this thread.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

Sadly though, that assumes that people get the vaccine. Have you seen the mental gymnastics people perform to not take it?

Yep, I’ve seen in front and center as a nurse!

 

[wideeyedwonder]

More on the NY Yankees “breakout” cases, basically what I’ve been saying:

““How many Yankees *would* have gotten infected *without* the vaccine? Difficult to estimate know without a thorough epidemiologic investigation. But say it’s 24 (a bit over half the travel party, plausible based on other sports outbreaks). That would translate to 8 cases instead of 24, or a vaccine that reduces infections/transmission by 67%. That’s within the realm of prior estimates — in other words, what we expected.””

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...nkees-covid-outbreak-vaccines/?outputType=amp
In other words, none of the vaccines is 100% effective, but they are *highly* effective at preventing infection, *greatly* effective at preventing severe infections, and enormously effective at preventing the spread of COVID-19, even if you test positive...and that’s why the CDC is ok with dropping the mask mandate except in specific cases, and Dr. Fauci is ok with vaccinated people not wearing a mask while around people of unknown vaccination status.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

From November of last year:

I remain optimistic about cruising next fall and remain hopeful for more widespread [vaccine] distribution by June.

VERY good call, Spiders!

 

[mevelandry]

Quebec vaccine news: Happy to report that we had a « boom » in vaccines availability this week. Extra doses arrived early. Since thursday evening, vaccination is open to all adults 18+. We were worried that the 18-25yo would not respond well to the vaccine campaign because some of them might feel invincible but so far, they seem to respond. They have opened « walk-in » spots and tickets are usually gone within one hour. Friends of mine have received calls to get their 1st shot appointments earlier than planned.

However, Health Canada has posted their « post-pandemic » plan and they are recommending that we keep most measures in place (no indoor dining, no visitors at home, working from home) until 75% of us have received their 2nd shot. With a 16 weeks delay, that would bring us to November. Their famous « 75% 1st shot-20% 2nd shot » plan is exactly what we are allowed to do right now with the exception of reopening outdoor dining. And no word on removing masks mandates at any time.

Most of us strongly disagree with this plan and I suspect that provinces will start pushing for vaccinal passports and propose their own plan.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

Quebec vaccine news: Happy to report that we had a « boom » in vaccines availability this week. Extra doses arrived early. Since thursday evening, vaccination is open to all adults 18+. We were worried that the 18-25yo would not respond well to the vaccine campaign because some of them might feel invincible but so far, they seem to respond. They have opened « walk-in » spots and tickets are usually gone within one hour. Friends of mine have received calls to get their 1st shot appointments earlier than planned.

However, Health Canada has posted their « post-pandemic » plan and they are recommending that we keep most measures in place (no indoor dining, no visitors at home, working from home) until 75% of us have received their 2nd shot. With a 16 weeks delay, that would bring us to November. Their famous « 75% 1st shot-20% 2nd shot » plan is exactly what we are allowed to do right now with the exception of reopening outdoor dining. And no word on removing masks mandates at any time.

Most of us strongly disagree with this plan and I suspect that provinces will start pushing for vaccinal passports and propose their own plan.

I hope provinces come up with their own plans/goals to reopen. I’m not sure how your government works up there, but 75% is going to be really hard to achieve.

The USA isn’t even at 75%, and Fauci said this week that he estimates only 60% of the staff at NIH are vaccinated.

It sounds like another wasted year for you guys, but I hope not.

 

[DCLMP]

More on the NY Yankees “breakout” cases, basically what I’ve been saying:

““How many Yankees *would* have gotten infected *without* the vaccine? Difficult to estimate know without a thorough epidemiologic investigation. But say it’s 24 (a bit over half the travel party, plausible based on other sports outbreaks). That would translate to 8 cases instead of 24, or a vaccine that reduces infections/transmission by 67%. That’s within the realm of prior estimates — in other words, what we expected.””

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...nkees-covid-outbreak-vaccines/?outputType=amp
In other words, none of the vaccines is 100% effective, but they are *highly* effective at preventing infection, *greatly* effective at preventing severe infections, and enormously effective at preventing the spread of COVID-19, even if you test positive...and that’s why the CDC is ok with dropping the mask mandate except in specific cases, and Dr. Fauci is ok with vaccinated people not wearing a mask while around people of unknown vaccination status.

Chances are these young, healthy men would have no symptoms or mild symptoms with or without the vaccine. It doesn't prove anything except that you can get Covid after vaccination. I'd like to see how it works on a 75 year old morbidily obese person with a lot of co- morbidities.

 

[mevelandry]

I hope provinces come up with their own plans/goals to reopen. I’m not sure how your government works up there, but 75% is going to be really hard to achieve.

The USA isn’t even at 75%, and Fauci said this week that he estimates only 60% of the staff at NIH are vaccinated.

It sounds like another wasted year for you guys, but I hope not.

It is going to be hard to achieve. Maybe not in our province because vaccines are popular (most age categories over 60 yo are currently between 80% and 92% right now, which is amazing) but as a whole country, 75% is going to be hard to reach out.

But they usually leaves it up to the provinces to make their own public health decisions so I’m hopeful ours will create a reasonable plan.

 

[soniam]

More on the NY Yankees “breakout” cases, basically what I’ve been saying:

““How many Yankees *would* have gotten infected *without* the vaccine? Difficult to estimate know without a thorough epidemiologic investigation. But say it’s 24 (a bit over half the travel party, plausible based on other sports outbreaks). That would translate to 8 cases instead of 24, or a vaccine that reduces infections/transmission by 67%. That’s within the realm of prior estimates — in other words, what we expected.””

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...nkees-covid-outbreak-vaccines/?outputType=amp
In other words, none of the vaccines is 100% effective, but they are *highly* effective at preventing infection, *greatly* effective at preventing severe infections, and enormously effective at preventing the spread of COVID-19, even if you test positive...and that’s why the CDC is ok with dropping the mask mandate except in specific cases, and Dr. Fauci is ok with vaccinated people not wearing a mask while around people of unknown vaccination status.

That percentage makes sense with the J&J. I actually breathed a bit of relief when reading that, since studies did show it to be less effective. However, the studies can't be compared explicitly without caveats. Still glad I sucked it up for the 2 doses, despite my phobia of needles.

 

[bcwife76]

It is going to be hard to achieve. Maybe not in our province because vaccines are popular (most age categories over 60 yo are currently between 80% and 92% right now, which is amazing) but as a whole country, 75% is going to be hard to reach out.

But they usually leaves it up to the provinces to make their own public health decisions so I’m hopeful ours will create a reasonable plan.

Same in BC. Our health plans and restrictions have never been what Tam has suggested. We're expecting a reopening plan for lessening of restrictions after the long weekend and generally, BC has been more 'open' than most provinces during this whole pandemic.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

That percentage makes sense with the J&J. I actually breathed a bit of relief when reading that, since studies did show it to be less effective. However, the studies can't be compared explicitly without caveats. Still glad I sucked it up for the 2 doses, despite my phobia of needles.

Do you understand the J&J efficacy percentage and why it is what they reported?

The trials were conducted not just in USA, but Brazil and South Africa where wild variants were the dominant strains going around in each respective country.
Read the 67% number as efficacy against these variants, not the one in USA that Moderna and Pfizer trialed against.

 

[soniam]

Do you understand the J&J efficacy percentage and why it is what they reported?

The trials were conducted not just in USA, but Brazil and South Africa where wild variants were the dominant strains going around in each respective country.
Read the 67% number as efficacy against these variants, not the one in USA that Moderna and Pfizer trialed against.

That's why I said they "can't be compared explicitly without caveats". I fully understand the differences between the 3 studies.

 

[Intr3pid]

Peak vaccination is the next area of concern. The 'herd immunity' target of vaccinating 70% of the population looks like a tough nut to crack. At least by this summer.

Here are some charts based on the data from:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
United States

The US has opened up vaccine eligibility to pretty much everyone 16+, so most adults who want one already have at least one shot in their arms. Yet, the chart is leveling off at a level that is a far cry from herd immunity:




Less than 10% of the population has had the infection, so that still doesn't get us to the 70% number. Plus, a large proportion of them are already included in the vaccination counts.

The newly expanded 12-15 demographic is going to provide some support in the short-term. (I will keep an eye on the data.) On a daily basis, peak vaccination was on April 3, 2021, when 2.4 million newly vaccinated joined the ranks. That number is now down to 630,000 yesterday.

UK

In the UK, they haven't yet filtered through all age groups (still working on the 30+ demographic). There was a steep dropoff after the negative AstraZeneca news broke out., but we are seeing some uptake as they open up more age groups. We will have a better idea once the 16+ or 12+ groups start getting their shots.




Canada

Understandably, Canadians are yet to reach peak vaccination. The pace seems to be picking up actually. It might have to do with the strategy to getting more folks vaccinated than fewer more quickly. There is also an incentive to get one shot before the summer - and to exit those lockdowns.



It looks like you tend to level off as you approach the 50% mark, so it will be interesting to see if the Canadians follow the Americans and the Brits into the final stretch.

Of course, not everyone has to be vaccinated. What's a good level to leave it at? Looks like quantity may not be as important as quality:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...ated-countries-heres-why-the-us-should-worry/

 

[jrapps]

I was at a family dinner tonight and an interesting conversation came up around vaccines. This could be quite humorous if it wasn't all so real.

The pro-vaccine people think that anit-vax people are crazy for not believing in the vaccine, that one day a mutation will appear and everyone not vaccinated will fall victim to an even more devastating pandemic. Best case, they have life altering side effects from the illness, worst case a huge death toll.

The anti-vaccine people think pro-vax people are insane for trusting an experimental drug that could have long term side effects. Best case, those vaccinated start to develop life altering side effects. Worst case, they become sterile and can't have children, or begin to die from vaccine complications.

Worse case..everyone is right and we are all DOOMED! LOL

I feel like there is a dystopian movie plot in here somewhere.

 

[mevelandry]

Peak vaccination is the next area of concern. The 'herd immunity' target of vaccinating 70% of the population looks like a tough nut to crack. At least by this summer.

Here are some charts based on the data from:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
Canada

Understandably, Canadians are yet to reach peak vaccination. The pace seems to be picking up actually. It might have to do with the strategy to getting more folks vaccinated than fewer more quickly. There is also an incentive to get one shot before the summer - and to exit those lockdowns.

View attachment 575348

It looks like you tend to level off as you approach the 50% mark, so it will be interesting to see if the Canadians follow the Americans and the Brits into the final stretch.

Of course, not everyone has to be vaccinated. What's a good level to leave it at? Looks like quantity may not be as important as quality:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...ated-countries-heres-why-the-us-should-worry/

One more for you... From Quebec (Canada) It is in french but I am sure most will undertand. Our « dashboard » if you look on top, from the middle column to the column on your right, you can see the rates by age group. Keep in mind that people under 55 have only been eligible to get vaccinated starting April 30 (Staggered, new groups being eligible every monday-wednesday-friday, the last group being 18-24 on friday May 14, 2021).