The Running Thread -- 2022

Advertisement

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
@DopeyBadger I am starting my Return to Running Protocol next week based on the Runners Connect seven week plan and I am somewhat nervous about a recurrence of my shin splints. Hence, I am taking a very conservative approach to my running. Originally, I was planning on trying out the Hanson's marathon training plan. However, I am concerned that running six days a week will potentially lead to an injury and I signed up for the Princess Half Marathon with my daughter following Marathon Weekend in January in which I am already signed up for the Goofy Challenge. If I were to do one of the speed/strength or Tempo workouts each week, would I still get the benefit of them? So, I would do the speed/strength workouts one week and a tempo workout the following week. I understand that I would be doing half of the speed/tempo workouts that the training plan calls for (six instead of 12), but I am assuming that I would benefit from greater recovery time.
 

Bree

Runs on Coffee
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
@DopeyBadger I am starting my Return to Running Protocol next week based on the Runners Connect seven week plan and I am somewhat nervous about a recurrence of my shin splints. Hence, I am taking a very conservative approach to my running. Originally, I was planning on trying out the Hanson's marathon training plan. However, I am concerned that running six days a week will potentially lead to an injury and I signed up for the Princess Half Marathon with my daughter following Marathon Weekend in January in which I am already signed up for the Goofy Challenge. If I were to do one of the speed/strength or Tempo workouts each week, would I still get the benefit of them? So, I would do the speed/strength workouts one week and a tempo workout the following week. I understand that I would be doing half of the speed/tempo workouts that the training plan calls for (six instead of 12), but I am assuming that I would benefit from greater recovery time.

There’s a FB group for Hanson training - LHR Running Community. Lots of fast runners, but many mid pack and slower runners too. I mostly lurk, but there’s lots of great info in there and the people in that group are very positive and supportive.

If you think 6 days would lead to injury, there is a 5 day beginner marathon plan. You have to purchase it on Final Surge. The nice thing about having my plans in Final Surge is that it sends my daily workout to Garmin.

Edited to add link: https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lu...e0&level=5824c60e-4230-4b5b-8de6-2966511f0267
 
Last edited:

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
There’s a FB group for Hanson training - LHR Running Community. Lots of fast runners, but many mid pack and slower runners too. I mostly lurk, but there’s lots of great info in there and the people in that group are very positive and supportive.

If you think 6 days would lead to injury, there is a 5 day beginner marathon plan. You have to purchase it on Final Surge. The nice thing about having my plans in Final Surge is that it sends my daily workout to Garmin.

Edited to add link: https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lu...e0&level=5824c60e-4230-4b5b-8de6-2966511f0267
Thank you for your response, but I was really just trying to inquire about the effectiveness of doing only one speed/strength/tempo workout per week as opposed to twice a week as per the Hanson's plan. I could see it not being as effective since I would only be getting half of the workouts, but it's probably better than nothing at all.
 

striker1064

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
This summer has not been a good one for running so far. I'm really struggling in this heat and humidity. Not sure if it's age catching up with me, accumulated fatigue or something else, but I'm struggling to maintain even adjusted pacing on runs over ~8 miles when the T+D gets over 150 or so and I've seen them up to 171 so far this summer. It doesn't help that I think my back bruising issue from last month must've involved my ribs, too, because it didn't fully clear up until last week. Couple all that with the stress of a couple of outside audits at work and I've been mentally exhausted before I even get to my runs in the evening.

Ah, well, enough pity party for now. At least I'm able to be out there running. Here are the numbers for June:

June Summary
Running Miles: 159.24
Running Time: 27:59:20
Average Pace: 10:32/mi
Average HR: 150/min
YTD Running Miles: 939.74

Extras:
Walking Miles: 37.69
Rolling 12mo Running Miles: 1,964.07

As a bonus for this month, puppy pics! We lost one of our 2.5yo bulldogs suddenly and unexpectedly just before Christmas last year. Bella was DWs heart dog and she's been feeling the loss acutely. As a teacher, now is the time for her to bond with and train a new puppy, so she'd been looking and we went to meet the litter a couple of hours from home last weekend.

We went with one of the boys of the litter in mind, but it was one of the girls that kept our hearts as we drove home. We won't be able to bring her home until the 13th or so, but in the meantime I present to you Luna, in all her glory and attitude:

View attachment 680804

View attachment 680805

Those puppies are adorable. DW and I both graduated from Mississippi State University, so the bulldog is held in very high regard in our household. I don't like the idea of having a dog in an apartment, but in the future when we're in a house... hopefully!
 

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
This summer has not been a good one for running so far. I'm really struggling in this heat and humidity. Not sure if it's age catching up with me, accumulated fatigue or something else, but I'm struggling to maintain even adjusted pacing on runs over ~8 miles when the T+D gets over 150 or so and I've seen them up to 171 so far this summer. It doesn't help that I think my back bruising issue from last month must've involved my ribs, too, because it didn't fully clear up until last week. Couple all that with the stress of a couple of outside audits at work and I've been mentally exhausted before I even get to my runs in the evening.

Ah, well, enough pity party for now. At least I'm able to be out there running. Here are the numbers for June:

June Summary
Running Miles: 159.24
Running Time: 27:59:20
Average Pace: 10:32/mi
Average HR: 150/min
YTD Running Miles: 939.74

Extras:
Walking Miles: 37.69
Rolling 12mo Running Miles: 1,964.07

As a bonus for this month, puppy pics! We lost one of our 2.5yo bulldogs suddenly and unexpectedly just before Christmas last year. Bella was DWs heart dog and she's been feeling the loss acutely. As a teacher, now is the time for her to bond with and train a new puppy, so she'd been looking and we went to meet the litter a couple of hours from home last weekend.

We went with one of the boys of the litter in mind, but it was one of the girls that kept our hearts as we drove home. We won't be able to bring her home until the 13th or so, but in the meantime I present to you Luna, in all her glory and attitude:

View attachment 680804

View attachment 680805
The puppy pics are so freaking cute!
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
His statement about hitting the wall reminded of something that I heard from Chris Twiggs (who works for Jeff Galloway as a run coach) in an interview with the Rise and Run podcast when he was discussing hydration. He was talking about the danger of hyponatremia (1:01:41) and he made the recommendation to "drink to thirst when you feel thirsty, but otherwise don't force it." Mind you, I live in South Florida so I am concerned with dehydration because I run in the high heat and humidity for most of the year, but I was floored when I heard this. He did not mention doing a sweat test at all! Moreover, once you are feeling thirsty you are already in the beginning stages of dehydration.

This is a common topic of research in endurance running. I've attached a good summary paper. There are times when "drink to thirst" and when "planned consumption rates" can be useful strategies.

@DopeyBadger I am starting my Return to Running Protocol next week based on the Runners Connect seven week plan and I am somewhat nervous about a recurrence of my shin splints. Hence, I am taking a very conservative approach to my running. Originally, I was planning on trying out the Hanson's marathon training plan. However, I am concerned that running six days a week will potentially lead to an injury and I signed up for the Princess Half Marathon with my daughter following Marathon Weekend in January in which I am already signed up for the Goofy Challenge. If I were to do one of the speed/strength or Tempo workouts each week, would I still get the benefit of them? So, I would do the speed/strength workouts one week and a tempo workout the following week. I understand that I would be doing half of the speed/tempo workouts that the training plan calls for (six instead of 12), but I am assuming that I would benefit from greater recovery time.

Choose the training plan that you feel is right for you with as few as edits from the author's original writing as possible. So no, I would not suggest doing the Hansons 6-day a week Beginner plan but alternating the SOS every other week. It's definitely doable, but how your body will respond to the training won't be the same. The SOS workouts in the Hansons plan are progressive. So alternating them every other week means that you're missing out on key workouts that bridge from one to the next. That means your next attempt at a Strength workout goes from 6 x 1, passes over 4 x 1.5 and goes to 3 x 2. Without the 4 x 1.5, you'll be less prepared for the 3 x 2. Can you do it? Sure. But your body may not tolerate it as much as was originally intended by the author when both were included. The best training plan is the one you can do with as few edits from the author's original writing. So choose a training plan that is five days per week with a single hard day.

This is the 5-day plan @Bree mentioned:

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21136

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21094
 

Attachments

  • Drinking Strategies.pdf
    592.6 KB · Views: 6

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
This is a common topic of research in endurance running. I've attached a good summary paper. There are times when "drink to thirst" and when "planned consumption rates" can be useful strategies.



Choose the training plan that you feel is right for you with as few as edits from the author's original writing as possible. So no, I would not suggest doing the Hansons 6-day a week Beginner plan but alternating the SOS every other week. It's definitely doable, but how your body will respond to the training won't be the same. The SOS workouts in the Hansons plan are progressive. So alternating them every other week means that you're missing out on key workouts that bridge from one to the next. That means your next attempt at a Strength workout goes from 6 x 1, passes over 4 x 1.5 and goes to 3 x 2. Without the 4 x 1.5, you'll be less prepared for the 3 x 2. Can you do it? Sure. But your body may not tolerate it as much as was originally intended by the author when both were included. The best training plan is the one you can do with as few edits from the author's original writing. So choose a training plan that is five days per week with a single hard day.

This is the 5-day plan @Bree mentioned:

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21136

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21094
I hope to be back to form in seven weeks with my conservative protocol, but do you think that I am being overly cautious with avoiding a 6 day a week running plan? What I don't want to happen is have another shin splint issue following Marathon Weekend and screw up our training for the Princess Half Marathon.
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
I hope to be back to form in seven weeks with my conservative protocol, but do you think that I am being overly cautious with avoiding a 6 day a week running plan? What I don't want to happen is have another shin splint issue following Marathon Weekend and screw up our training for the Princess Half Marathon.

That's a hard question to answer definitively. It sounds as if you're trying to balance making good gains and being well prepared for MW against the injury risk that may put Princess in jeopardy. Only you can answer the level of risk you're willing to incur with these two objectives. If Princess matters to you, then I suggest being more conservative on the marathon training. There are plenty more individual marathons in your career, but potentially only this singular Princess event with your daughter.

Additionally, you did suffer an injury during your last training plan. I don't know the smaller details to your training methodology, pacing, ramp rate, etc. to say what put you at more risk for shin splints previously. From memory, I believe you came out of your "A" race (MW?) without issues, and then proceeded to jump right back into training towards a HM only a few weeks later that had an uphill/downhill that you weren't quite prepared for, you went out super aggressive in the pacing during the race, and you also did a really hard run only a few days prior to the HM to test your fitness. Again, that's from memory so I don't quite remember everything. So I think where you may need to be more cautious is the bridging between MW and Princess moreso than the training leading into MW. But still with that being said, be more conservative, see how your body responds to a moderate plan, come out injury free, and then build to a more aggressive plan after proving to yourself that you can handle something more moderate. That's what I would suggest.
 

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
That's a hard question to answer definitively. It sounds as if you're trying to balance making good gains and being well prepared for MW against the injury risk that may put Princess in jeopardy. Only you can answer the level of risk you're willing to incur with these two objectives. If Princess matters to you, then I suggest being more conservative on the marathon training. There are plenty more individual marathons in your career, but potentially only this singular Princess event with your daughter.

Additionally, you did suffer an injury during your last training plan. I don't know the smaller details to your training methodology, pacing, ramp rate, etc. to say what put you at more risk for shin splints previously. From memory, I believe you came out of your "A" race (MW?) without issues, and then proceeded to jump right back into training towards a HM only a few weeks later that had an uphill/downhill that you weren't quite prepared for, you went out super aggressive in the pacing during the race, and you also did a really hard run only a few days prior to the HM to test your fitness. Again, that's from memory so I don't quite remember everything. So I think where you may need to be more cautious is the bridging between MW and Princess moreso than the training leading into MW. But still with that being said, be more conservative, see how your body responds to a moderate plan, come out injury free, and then build to a more aggressive plan after proving to yourself that you can handle something more moderate. That's what I would suggest.
Thank you. It's always nice to be on the same page with someone else who considers the daddy-daughter race to be your "A" race.
 

HangWithMerida

And away we go!
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
June total: 117.1 miles

Right on the nose with the mileage for my plan. This is by far the largest volume June I have ever had. I looked back on strava for some data and it looks like I am usually around 50 miles for the month of June. It has been a challenge, mostly because of having to work longer runs around my work schedule. That has meant running in the mornings some days and late evenings others, so sometimes there are only 11-12 hours between runs. But, I am learning how to recover better and quicker and realizing that I can do more mileage in the summer than I thought I could.
 

Cabius

More Disney-obsessed than is healthy.
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Just joined DVC (well, just bought some points off resale) and am thinking about Disney Marathon in next couple of years. Haven’t run it since 2005. Still remember my dad (also did it) limping around a bar that had animatronic shows pop up o e in a while. Good times :)

Fast forward 17 years and I’m now a guy who hits the elliptical in my basement every day and walks 2 dogs. Wondering if marathon is worth the effort. (I know only I can answer that hahah).

How’s marathon been for y’all? Any watchouts on planning and such?
My one and only full marathon was this January. I had done a 20-mile (~5 hour) training run a month beforehand which had triggered painful tendonitis, and I stayed off my feet for the month before the race. I still had a bad flare-up and hobbled across the finish line. I limped all over WDW on badly swollen feet for a week afterwards.

It was totally worth it! I'm signed up again for 2023. 👍

(But, I'm also losing weight, doing tendon exercises, seeing a podiatrist about shoe/orthotic choices, and capping my training runs at ~2.5 hours in the future.)
 

Naomeri

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
LOLed at the new activity category. Hopefully one that won't be making frequent appearances? That's also a very specific approximate time 😆
😆😆 My workout app has a “Gardening” workout, and I told it I did 2 hour gardening workouts, and it changed it 1h 59m 28s for some reason. I called it approximate because I didn’t actually pay attention to how long I was working, I just picked a length of time.
 

Bree

Runs on Coffee
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Thank you for your response, but I was really just trying to inquire about the effectiveness of doing only one speed/strength/tempo workout per week as opposed to twice a week as per the Hanson's plan. I could see it not being as effective since I would only be getting half of the workouts, but it's probably better than nothing at all.

Some of the 5 day plans have three easy runs, one speed/strength/tempo and one long run. I was just trying to offer a solution of using one of the 5 day plans instead of trying to piece something together from the 6 day plan. The intentions of the 5 day versus 6 day are different.

Hanson plans are not for the feint of heart and in all honesty, not all his beginner plans are what I would consider "beginner". I was down with an injury at the beginning of the year so I built my base back up to 25 miles a week, moved to one of his 8 week plans running 5 days a week and then moved on to my marathon plan (with help because I'm 45yo and injury prone). I was running 30ish miles a week over 5 days before I started my marathon plan. Today is week 4 of my marathon training and first week of running 6 days, but only 33 miles. Next week is 35 I think. When I was first looking at a Hanson plan waaaaay back in 2018 @DopeyBadger stepped in and put the brakes on that idea. He ended up writing quite a few plans for me :) I'm not trying to discourage you, but Hanson plans can be intense and they ramp up fast. You go from running easy, easy, easy to BAM!!!! Lots of speed and strength. Heck, even "easy" runs have 4 strides at the end which adds about another 1/2 mile onto my run.

So I basically will just concur with everything @DopeyBadger replied to you.
 

kps7795

"It was all started by a mouse."
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Some of the 5 day plans have three easy runs, one speed/strength/tempo and one long run. I was just trying to offer a solution of using one of the 5 day plans instead of trying to piece something together from the 6 day plan. The intentions of the 5 day versus 6 day are different.

Hanson plans are not for the feint of heart and in all honesty, not all his beginner plans are what I would consider "beginner". I was down with an injury at the beginning of the year so I built my base back up to 25 miles a week, moved to one of his 8 week plans running 5 days a week and then moved on to my marathon plan (with help because I'm 45yo and injury prone). I was running 30ish miles a week over 5 days before I started my marathon plan. Today is week 4 of my marathon training and first week of running 6 days, but only 33 miles. Next week is 35 I think. When I was first looking at a Hanson plan waaaaay back in 2018 @DopeyBadger stepped in and put the brakes on that idea. He ended up writing quite a few plans for me :) I'm not trying to discourage you, but Hanson plans can be intense and they ramp up fast. You go from running easy, easy, easy to BAM!!!! Lots of speed and strength. Heck, even "easy" runs have 4 strides at the end which adds about another 1/2 mile onto my run.

So I basically will just concur with everything @DopeyBadger replied to you.
Thank you very much. I know that I brought this injury upon myself because I was arrogantly pursuing a better POT and pushed myself beyond my level of fitness. It gives me pause because I was doing so well having trained for the marathon and the TOT Ten Miler without any injury and then shin splints...all within my first year of running. Now, that I have "enjoyed" my slice of humble pie, I think that I'm going to follow your path and put off the Hanson plan for a while. As I mentioned to him earlier, my focus is on having fun and running with my daughter.

That being said, are you enjoying the Hanson marathon training? Perhaps I'm a masochist, but it looks like fun. I was most looking forward to the speed and strength workouts.
 

Bree

Runs on Coffee
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Thank you very much. I know that I brought this injury upon myself because I was arrogantly pursuing a better POT and pushed myself beyond my level of fitness. It gives me pause because I was doing so well having trained for the marathon and the TOT Ten Miler without any injury and then shin splints...all within my first year of running. Now, that I have "enjoyed" my slice of humble pie, I think that I'm going to follow your path and put off the Hanson plan for a while. As I mentioned to him earlier, my focus is on having fun and running with my daughter.

That being said, are you enjoying the Hanson marathon training? Perhaps I'm a masochist, but it looks like fun. I was most looking forward to the speed and strength workouts.
I have a love/hate relationship with speed and strength. I’ve been doing it for four years and I still get intimidated and nervous before one of those workouts then feel stupid after I finish and didn’t die 🤦‍♀️ 🤣

Reach out to Billy for a plan with speed/strength or take a look at the 5 day 20 week Hanson plan if you have a base of 20 miles a week.

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21095

Description: This is a marathon specific training schedule that is based on the amount of weekly mileage a runner wants and can handle. This schedule is for novice runners who have already been previously running and are hoping just complete a marathon. This schedule starts at 20 miles a week and builds up to running a consistent 30-40 miles by running four to five days a week.

There’s also a Just Finish version, but can’t tell if it has strength or speed.

https://www.finalsurge.com/coach/lukehumphreyrunning/plan/21127

Description: This is for first time marathoners and beginning runners. This program focuses solely on building weekly mileage to safely handle the marathon distance. This is an ideal program for someone who is just looking to cover the distance and have a good experience! In 18 weeks, the runner goes from 12 miles per week to roughly 45 at the peak.

You can also join his FB group and send a message if you need help with picking a plan. He also has an online club on his website, but I find FB to be more active. When my money tree starts blooming I’d really like to hire a personal coach with them 🤓
 

gjramsey

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
June Totals

Total Miles - 79.51 mi
Total Time - 11:31:13 h:m:s
Average Pace - 8:42
Avg HR - 145 bpm

Summer maintenance mode continues. Did spend a couple of weeks back in NC and found a place to move to in late July. The traveling has cut back the miles some. Looking forward to get the move complete and learn some new areas to run, and to maybe find a new running club. Did some runs with a Cary brewery, but googling has not found me a running club like I run with in NW Houston.
 

camaker

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
Joined
May 8, 2015
June Totals

Total Miles - 79.51 mi
Total Time - 11:31:13 h:m:s
Average Pace - 8:42
Avg HR - 145 bpm

Summer maintenance mode continues. Did spend a couple of weeks back in NC and found a place to move to in late July. The traveling has cut back the miles some. Looking forward to get the move complete and learn some new areas to run, and to maybe find a new running club. Did some runs with a Cary brewery, but googling has not found me a running club like I run with in NW Houston.

Are you moving to the Cary area? Holly Springs is pretty close and they have a very active running community that does group runs just about every day. Check out the Holly Springs Run Club on Facebook. I've run with them a couple of times and found them open and welcoming, but group runs just aren't my thing.
 








Top