The Running Thread - 2021

January running: 81.75 miles

That's a little lower than it should be - I missed two runs this month. I was originally really mad at myself for missing those runs, but in the grand scheme of things, I suppose only missing two runs out of 14 weeks of training isn't so bad.

In other news, after 16 years my treadmill has officially died and is likely beyond repair. I've been looking into getting a new one and I'm somewhat overwhelmed, so if anyone has bought one recently, I would love to hear recommendations.

Sole F63. It was on sale for about $1,000 and I think it still is. We got it mostly for my wife but I've used it and it is really solid for that price point

I've done the first round of maintenance and it was pretty easy too which is an important factor for long life. I took off the motor cover to vacuum, cleaned off the deck, and re-oiled the deck.

We do wipe it down with a water and vinegar mix after each use because I've heard it is better than heavy cleaning agents.

All that being said if money was no object I would get a Woodway.
 
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Thank you to all who shared their thoughts on my question of running through cemeteries. I appreciate this forum to ask questions and also for all the encouragement everyone gives!
 
Has anyone tried the Yaktrax run traction cleats? I'm trying to find something that will allow me to feel stable running on thick black ice.
I use Yaktrax. They are good spikes and wearing them in slippery conditions prevents runners to open their feet (bad form that can easily lead to injuries). Like others have mentioned, there is a limit to what they can do (I mean, they can’t be used to do ice climbing) but if they were any grippier, there would also be risk of injuries because they could bite too much and get a leg or knee twisted. Slowing down in wintery road conditions is definitely a must.

In the three years I had my Yaktrax Run, there was only two or three times when the conditions were too dangerous to go, even with them. I do not recommend them on dry pavement for a long period of time, they are just anoying. My pair broke recently and I reordered the same.
 

January Training Summary

Total Miles: 48.31
Total Time: 7:31:34
Average Pace: 9:21/mi
Average HR: 140/min

Rested a hamstring a decent amount this month. Just looked back on Garmin and that was my lowest mileage since September 2014... before I even found this group. It was sorta nice being off, but I like really like running in the winter.
 
Anyone have any good tricks/suggestions for hitting target paces during speedwork--outdoors, no TM? I have a Garmin Vivoactive3, but the target pace feature isn't really helping (plus my running glasses are not progressive and so reading the watch while trying to run fast is not happening!)

Today I did a speed workout (3 sets of 4x1 minute at 5k pace with rest/recovery). I and ended up running all 112 intervals at more like 7-7:30 mpm pace instead of the 8:20-8:30 I should have. So yeah, a little too fast. OTOH, I did them all and felt fine afterwards, but I know this isn't sustainable.

I have previously always done my speedwork indoors on a TM, so I'm rusty.
 
In other news, after 16 years my treadmill has officially died and is likely beyond repair. I've been looking into getting a new one and I'm somewhat overwhelmed, so if anyone has bought one recently, I would love to hear recommendations.

I just bought a Proform Pro 2000 v3 (last year's model) and am loving it so far. I've only had it about a month, so can't speak to longevity, but it's a beast and gets great reviews. It came with a free year of iFit, which I am enjoying more than I thought I would. I sold my Peloton to help fund the treadmill and I much prefer the iFit content to the Peloton classes.
 
Anyone have any good tricks/suggestions for hitting target paces during speedwork--outdoors, no TM? I have a Garmin Vivoactive3, but the target pace feature isn't really helping (plus my running glasses are not progressive and so reading the watch while trying to run fast is not happening!)

Today I did a speed workout (3 sets of 4x1 minute at 5k pace with rest/recovery). I and ended up running all 112 intervals at more like 7-7:30 mpm pace instead of the 8:20-8:30 I should have. So yeah, a little too fast. OTOH, I did them all and felt fine afterwards, but I know this isn't sustainable.

I have previously always done my speedwork indoors on a TM, so I'm rusty.
I do have difficulty getting on pace during my speed work as well. The best I can come up with is to program the pace as a secondary variable in the Garmin workout.

553950

I have adapted to not being able to see the watch without my reading glasses by using the audio feature on my watch to tell me if I am on pace or not. I have my Bluetooth headset connected to the watch and am listening to "binge-mode" podcasts right now. It will interrupt the audio to tell me to speed up or slow down; "Pace low"/"Pace high" audio prompts.
 
January:
Total: 115.5 miles
Avg pace: 8:56

Anyone have any good tricks/suggestions for hitting target paces during speedwork--outdoors, no TM? I have a Garmin Vivoactive3, but the target pace feature isn't really helping (plus my running glasses are not progressive and so reading the watch while trying to run fast is not happening!)

Today I did a speed workout (3 sets of 4x1 minute at 5k pace with rest/recovery). I and ended up running all 112 intervals at more like 7-7:30 mpm pace instead of the 8:20-8:30 I should have. So yeah, a little too fast. OTOH, I did them all and felt fine afterwards, but I know this isn't sustainable.

I have previously always done my speedwork indoors on a TM, so I'm rusty.


Like @shellot-hill, I program the work out in my garmin. Usually my watch makes special beeps when I'm too fast/too slow/just right and others for when the interval is about to start or about to end. I just look at the watch when I'm off pace to adjust. So I try not to have my ear buds on too loud so I'm aware.

Also, right before a specific work out, I'll look at the paces I'm trying to hit and for how long etc so I'm mentally prepared.
 
Anyone have any good tricks/suggestions for hitting target paces during speedwork--outdoors, no TM? I have a Garmin Vivoactive3, but the target pace feature isn't really helping (plus my running glasses are not progressive and so reading the watch while trying to run fast is not happening!)

Today I did a speed workout (3 sets of 4x1 minute at 5k pace with rest/recovery). I and ended up running all 112 intervals at more like 7-7:30 mpm pace instead of the 8:20-8:30 I should have. So yeah, a little too fast. OTOH, I did them all and felt fine afterwards, but I know this isn't sustainable.

I have previously always done my speedwork indoors on a TM, so I'm rusty.

I would suggest, like both the previous posters, playing with workouts on the Garmin. I have the 945 and it started showing suggested workouts recently so that is my only experience with Garmin workouts for the moment but during those workouts my main screen has a gauge of my time vs goal time. I it large and graphical and it does also beep when I am out of the "green" zone indicating I'm either too fast or too slow.

It is surprisingly difficult to find a good image online but this will give you an idea but I've never seen step distance as an option and I'm not totally sure if it will be a little different on the VA3.

554077
 
@shellott-hill @dis_or_dat @GreatLakes ........Thanks for your comments. I had the workout programmed on my Garmin, it's really a matter of the Vivoactive 3 cues. It is a watch that has no audible cues, only haptic, and the level of vibration is not always strong enough to be felt. I'll have to see if there's a way to have a very large font ;) single screen with current pace--then it's just a matter of how accurate that live pacing is. Probably need to approach the interval as a ramp up instead of a step-increase in speed.

@DopeyBadger....what say you?
 
@shellott-hill @dis_or_dat @GreatLakes ........Thanks for your comments. I had the workout programmed on my Garmin, it's really a matter of the Vivoactive 3 cues. It is a watch that has no audible cues, only haptic, and the level of vibration is not always strong enough to be felt. I'll have to see if there's a way to have a very large font ;) single screen with current pace--then it's just a matter of how accurate that live pacing is. Probably need to approach the interval as a ramp up instead of a step-increase in speed.

@DopeyBadger....what say you?

I have a target pace that I’m trying to hit every time I run, so pace adjustment on the fly is a constant. I’ve found the Garmin pace alerts to be too finicky and intrusive, not to mention too sensitive to transient running conditions. Setting my Garmin to auto-lap every 1/4 mile works well. I know what the 1/4 mile split target time should be for each phase of my run and can adjust up or down depending on what the lap split tells me. This also has the benefit of smoothing out the natural pace variability across a reasonable distance so I’m not constantly having to adjust to pace alerts every few seconds.
 
@shellott-hill @dis_or_dat @GreatLakes ........Thanks for your comments. I had the workout programmed on my Garmin, it's really a matter of the Vivoactive 3 cues. It is a watch that has no audible cues, only haptic, and the level of vibration is not always strong enough to be felt. I'll have to see if there's a way to have a very large font ;) single screen with current pace--then it's just a matter of how accurate that live pacing is. Probably need to approach the interval as a ramp up instead of a step-increase in speed.

@DopeyBadger....what say you?

There may be some ConnectIQ apps that are better for that than the built in Garmin apps. I can't say I've dug that deeply into it myself.
 
I have a target pace that I’m trying to hit every time I run, so pace adjustment on the fly is a constant. I’ve found the Garmin pace alerts to be too finicky and intrusive, not to mention too sensitive to transient running conditions. Setting my Garmin to auto-lap every 1/4 mile works well. I know what the 1/4 mile split target time should be for each phase of my run and can adjust up or down depending on what the lap split tells me. This also has the benefit of smoothing out the natural pace variability across a reasonable distance so I’m not constantly having to adjust to pace alerts every few seconds.

I agree. I do that when I am doing longer distance sessions. I have run 5ks with that same strategy. It is helpful. Unfortunately, the speedwork I am doing started with 1 minute segments, whic is trickier to deal with.
 
A little late but January totals (including my virtual Goofy that I did after New Years):

Run = 108.3mi
Bike = 310 mi
Swim = 4300yds (yikes, I need to get back into some kind of swim routine!)

Something new that I am doing is that I started doing bike races on Zwift - I joined a team and we race on Tuesday nights. It is scary and humbling but I am hoping that it helps make me stronger on the bike!
 
Anyone have any good tricks/suggestions for hitting target paces during speedwork--outdoors, no TM? I have a Garmin Vivoactive3, but the target pace feature isn't really helping (plus my running glasses are not progressive and so reading the watch while trying to run fast is not happening!)

Today I did a speed workout (3 sets of 4x1 minute at 5k pace with rest/recovery). I and ended up running all 112 intervals at more like 7-7:30 mpm pace instead of the 8:20-8:30 I should have. So yeah, a little too fast. OTOH, I did them all and felt fine afterwards, but I know this isn't sustainable.

I have previously always done my speedwork indoors on a TM, so I'm rusty.
@shellott-hill @dis_or_dat @GreatLakes ........Thanks for your comments. I had the workout programmed on my Garmin, it's really a matter of the Vivoactive 3 cues. It is a watch that has no audible cues, only haptic, and the level of vibration is not always strong enough to be felt. I'll have to see if there's a way to have a very large font ;) single screen with current pace--then it's just a matter of how accurate that live pacing is. Probably need to approach the interval as a ramp up instead of a step-increase in speed.

@DopeyBadger....what say you?

So a couple of considerations.

First, ask yourself why you're doing the training you are right now. Because to an extent that's going to dictate how specific you want to try and be with pacing. If you're aiming for structured training with the intent of improving current fitness, then you'll probably want to be more specific. If you're aiming just to go out and have some fun and change things up a bit, then I wouldn't stress about the accuracy of your pacing as much. As long as you complete the workout without a fade and have good form, then you're doing alright.

Second, when it comes to speed work, I'd say ditch the idea of working with your watch when the interval length is 2-3 minutes or less. The shorter the length of time or distance the less accurate the watch will be within that timeframe because it'll have less data points to draw from. That will heavily influence the ability of the watch to do "instant pacing" or recognize "current lap pace" in a fast enough manner for it to be relevant. So my advice is that when the intervals are short like this workout (1 min at 5k pace with goal pace of 8:25), then instead you should figure out the distance you're aiming for and use Google Maps to pre-measure the distance on your normal road route. So let's use these 8:25 min/mile reps of 1 minute. That's 0.118 miles or 191 meters. So I would hop on Google Maps, find a nice stretch of road (ideally flat and straightish with limited road crossings) or track and measure out 191 meters. I prefer trying to find man made objects to use as start and stop points on the route. So like a mailbox or a driveway. Once I have those locations, then when I do the workout, I start my new lap at the mailbox and hit the lap button at the end of the driveway (or wherever the 191m mark is). Then I'll look and see how close I was to 60 seconds. I'd give myself a 1-2 second window (so 58-62 seconds). If I was 55 seconds, then I know I need to slow down on the next one. If I was 65 seconds, then I know I need to speed up on the next one. Anywhere inside my window is completely acceptable. Then I'll make my way back to the start of where the interval is and prepare for the second one. By having the same start and stop, you'll better be able to compare the intervals when they're this short. And you're then only relying on the watch to be able to tell time, not distance. Because you're looking at a start/stop place and the duration it took you to get there. That allows for better comparison and adjustment of effort.

It's not until I get past intervals of 3 minutes or so before I do any checking of pace mid-interval. When it's in that 0-3 min range, I run what feels right and then adjust based on how close each interval was to goal splits. So after the first 7:15 min/mile rep, which would be 0.138 miles or 222 meters, I would say, well I need to slow down on the next one. Conversely if you use the distance based conversion method above, you would have finished your 191 meter rep in 52 seconds. Far far under your 60 second goal and clearly a need to adjust to slower on the next one.

I would be patient though. It's really easy to over-run the effort on a 3 x (4 x 1 minute) 5k workout. As long as the resting intervals were 60 seconds or longer as well, then that's a fairly easy mile based pace workout as well. So I could see how you could over run this and still feel good. It'll obviously start to catch up with you if you tried to maintain that 7:15 mm pace beyond the 2-3 min mark. As that's where you're going to find yourself in a different place physiologically based on your current fitness. But again, if you're consistent with the pace/duration of these and your form is good, then I wouldn't worry too much unless you're trying to be really systematic about your current training. Just make sure that the easy days stay really easy and that'll play a more pivotal role.
 
So a couple of considerations.

First, ask yourself why you're doing the training you are right now. Because to an extent that's going to dictate how specific you want to try and be with pacing. If you're aiming for structured training with the intent of improving current fitness, then you'll probably want to be more specific. If you're aiming just to go out and have some fun and change things up a bit, then I wouldn't stress about the accuracy of your pacing as much. As long as you complete the workout without a fade and have good form, then you're doing alright.

Second, when it comes to speed work, I'd say ditch the idea of working with your watch when the interval length is 2-3 minutes or less. The shorter the length of time or distance the less accurate the watch will be within that timeframe because it'll have less data points to draw from. That will heavily influence the ability of the watch to do "instant pacing" or recognize "current lap pace" in a fast enough manner for it to be relevant. So my advice is that when the intervals are short like this workout (1 min at 5k pace with goal pace of 8:25), then instead you should figure out the distance you're aiming for and use Google Maps to pre-measure the distance on your normal road route. So let's use these 8:25 min/mile reps of 1 minute. That's 0.118 miles or 191 meters. So I would hop on Google Maps, find a nice stretch of road (ideally flat and straightish with limited road crossings) or track and measure out 191 meters. I prefer trying to find man made objects to use as start and stop points on the route. So like a mailbox or a driveway. Once I have those locations, then when I do the workout, I start my new lap at the mailbox and hit the lap button at the end of the driveway (or wherever the 191m mark is). Then I'll look and see how close I was to 60 seconds. I'd give myself a 1-2 second window (so 58-62 seconds). If I was 55 seconds, then I know I need to slow down on the next one. If I was 65 seconds, then I know I need to speed up on the next one. Anywhere inside my window is completely acceptable. Then I'll make my way back to the start of where the interval is and prepare for the second one. By having the same start and stop, you'll better be able to compare the intervals when they're this short. And you're then only relying on the watch to be able to tell time, not distance. Because you're looking at a start/stop place and the duration it took you to get there. That allows for better comparison and adjustment of effort.

It's not until I get past intervals of 3 minutes or so before I do any checking of pace mid-interval. When it's in that 0-3 min range, I run what feels right and then adjust based on how close each interval was to goal splits. So after the first 7:15 min/mile rep, which would be 0.138 miles or 222 meters, I would say, well I need to slow down on the next one. Conversely if you use the distance based conversion method above, you would have finished your 191 meter rep in 52 seconds. Far far under your 60 second goal and clearly a need to adjust to slower on the next one.

I would be patient though. It's really easy to over-run the effort on a 3 x (4 x 1 minute) 5k workout. As long as the resting intervals were 60 seconds or longer as well, then that's a fairly easy mile based pace workout as well. So I could see how you could over run this and still feel good. It'll obviously start to catch up with you if you tried to maintain that 7:15 mm pace beyond the 2-3 min mark. As that's where you're going to find yourself in a different place physiologically based on your current fitness. But again, if you're consistent with the pace/duration of these and your form is good, then I wouldn't worry too much unless you're trying to be really systematic about your current training. Just make sure that the easy days stay really easy and that'll play a more pivotal role.

When I did these shorter intervals on DopeyBadger's plans, I usually did them on a track, where distances are measured for me. So for instance, the example 191-meter interval, round it up to 200 meters (halfway around the track) and then figure out what time you should finish that in to be doing your desired pace.

So I would set it up as a workout on Garmin and download it to my phone, but use the manual lap option to increment the laps.

I used to have a VA3. The bummer about using the manual lap option is that you have to double tap JUST RIGHT to get the lap to turn over. Honestly, that was one of the most frustrating things about the VA3 for me.
 
I got a treadmill last year, but I haven't been as motivated to use it without races on the horizon. I'm hoping that will change this year.
 












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