The Running Thread - 2021

[GreatLakes]

Submitting an item for QOTD consideration...

It's about to get HOT down here in the FLA, which means it's time to slooooooow my roll and just get through the endless summer without dying. So my question to all, but mostly those who do run-walk intervals, is:

How do you slow down? What's your methodology here: do you do longer walk intervals? Slow your cadence? Shorten your stride? Take stop-and-contemplate-the-universe breaks?

Most runs I go by perceived effort with an eye on the HR to make sure I'm at least close to the zone I intend to be in. When it gets hot, and more importantly for me humid, running that way generally take care of the pace itself. I don't really add in walk breaks on the road but when we aren't in a pandemic I do stop by some drinking fountains and take a little drink break as needed. On the trails I carry water and will walk/hike more of the uphills as the temps go up.

 

[azrivest]

Maybe Des Linden inspired me.

Had a crummy day yesterday, but I got my new Endorphin Speed in the mail. So went out for an easy run last night and... PR'd my 5k time! I was so excited. Goes to show that even at 37 going at 38, I can always improve

 

[xjillianpaige]

My facebook status from 8 years ago today...


Remembering Krystle Campbell, Lu Lingzi, Martin Richard, Sean Collier, Dennis Simmonds. In Boston, this day is recognized as One Boston Day where the victims are remembered and honored through acts of kindness.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

Remembering Krystle Campbell, Lu Lingzi, Martin Richard, Sean Collier, Dennis Simmonds. In Boston, this day is recognized as One Boston Day where the victims are remembered and honored through acts of kindness.

 

[purifiedtemp]

First time posting here.
Around May of 2020 I saw youtubers doing a "perimeter walk" around Disneyland (3 miles if you park at Gardenwalk). I decided to do it myself since we were all locked up, and I find a long walk relaxes my mind. The streets were COMPLETELY empty in May. Some interesting sights were the top of the matterhorn visible near Panera on Harbor Blvd, the new Runaway Railway building (got to see if from start to finish), and the Ferris Wheel + Incredicoaster from Disneyland Drive.
Walking was cool but I felt antsy one day and ran a few blocks. Now on my days off work I do the 3 mile perimeter run, have a small meal at Downtown Disney, then run it again (in the reverse direction and a bit slower since I have food in my stomach). I'm looking forward to upping my mileage to be able to run the next Disney half marathon, whenever that is.

 

[GreatLakes]

First time posting here.
Around May of 2020 I saw youtubers doing a "perimeter walk" around Disneyland (3 miles if you park at Gardenwalk). I decided to do it myself since we were all locked up, and I find a long walk relaxes my mind. The streets were COMPLETELY empty in May. Some interesting sights were the top of the matterhorn visible near Panera on Harbor Blvd, the new Runaway Railway building (got to see if from start to finish), and the Ferris Wheel + Incredicoaster from Disneyland Drive.
Walking was cool but I felt antsy one day and ran a few blocks. Now on my days off work I do the 3 mile perimeter run, have a small meal at Downtown Disney, then run it again (in the reverse direction and a bit slower since I have food in my stomach). I'm looking forward to upping my mileage to be able to run the next Disney half marathon, whenever that is.

Welcome. Walking is great for mental health in my opinion. I know walking, running, really any outdoor movement really makes me feel better and clears my mind.

 

[Dopey 2020]

First time posting here.
Around May of 2020 I saw youtubers doing a "perimeter walk" around Disneyland (3 miles if you park at Gardenwalk). I decided to do it myself since we were all locked up, and I find a long walk relaxes my mind. The streets were COMPLETELY empty in May. Some interesting sights were the top of the matterhorn visible near Panera on Harbor Blvd, the new Runaway Railway building (got to see if from start to finish), and the Ferris Wheel + Incredicoaster from Disneyland Drive.
Walking was cool but I felt antsy one day and ran a few blocks. Now on my days off work I do the 3 mile perimeter run, have a small meal at Downtown Disney, then run it again (in the reverse direction and a bit slower since I have food in my stomach). I'm looking forward to upping my mileage to be able to run the next Disney half marathon, whenever that is.

Welcome!

 

[Guidman]

If any of you have HBO, the newest episode of Real Sports has a great profile of Dave McGillivray and the Barkley Marathon. The episode should be on HBOMax tomorrow.

 

[SarahDisney]

I know we've discussed local races returning in here, so here's some new info from NYC:
NYRR is doing their first "large-scale" event in June, the Mini 10K. They haven't said what "large-scale" means, but I think that race traditionally has like 10,000 people (maybe a little less? I might be remembering wrong and can't check past results at the moment), so I'm guessing not full capacity, but more people than what they've been doing lately.

 

[GreatLakes]

Here in NE Ohio we are seeing more and more in-person races return. Most weekends you can find at least one withing 25 miles.

 

[Herding_Cats]

"RunMichiganCheap" has been posting/scheduling a LOT of races this week. I'm pretty sure they run most of their stuff in parks with paved trails, or on recreational trails (like converted rail-trails.) I haven't done any of these events, but I have at least one penciled in on my calendar now. They look like they're small events, pretty much show up, get your bib/chip and run.


I have a garmin VO2max question (and I promise I've googled.) I'm not hung up on the number, because it's just a number and isn't going to change my training, but I'm annoyed by it. I have a Forerunner35, and until about a month ago only wore it when I ran (to track cumulative mileage, and compare HR data with my fitbit.) My VO2max hasn't changed since I got my garmin. At first I thought it was maybe because of incomplete data, since I only wore it during exercise. So around a month ago I decided to try to make the switch off my fitbit because wearing 2 trackers all the time looks silly, and I figured maybe that would get me an actual vo2max number. But it's still the same. Google tells me that maybe this number is only affected when you do OUTDOOR runs? I haven't gotten a ton of these in, but even then.....it hasn't changed since February, when I was definitely in worse shape and ran outside. For full disclosure, it says it's 34, and my fitbit (which has 3 years worth of data) says I'm closer to 37-39. My garmin connect screen TODAY says I'm in the "bottom 40%, poor" for my age and gender, and then right below says my "fitness age is that of an excellent 20 year old" which is an enormous contradiction. Anyone have any idea what's going on with this?

 

[GreatLakes]

"RunMichiganCheap" has been posting/scheduling a LOT of races this week. I'm pretty sure they run most of their stuff in parks with paved trails, or on recreational trails (like converted rail-trails.) I haven't done any of these events, but I have at least one penciled in on my calendar now. They look like they're small events, pretty much show up, get your bib/chip and run.


I have a garmin VO2max question (and I promise I've googled.) I'm not hung up on the number, because it's just a number and isn't going to change my training, but I'm annoyed by it. I have a Forerunner35, and until about a month ago only wore it when I ran (to track cumulative mileage, and compare HR data with my fitbit.) My VO2max hasn't changed since I got my garmin. At first I thought it was maybe because of incomplete data, since I only wore it during exercise. So around a month ago I decided to try to make the switch off my fitbit because wearing 2 trackers all the time looks silly, and I figured maybe that would get me an actual vo2max number. But it's still the same. Google tells me that maybe this number is only affected when you do OUTDOOR runs? I haven't gotten a ton of these in, but even then.....it hasn't changed since February, when I was definitely in worse shape and ran outside. For full disclosure, it says it's 34, and my fitbit (which has 3 years worth of data) says I'm closer to 37-39. My garmin connect screen TODAY says I'm in the "bottom 40%, poor" for my age and gender, and then right below says my "fitness age is that of an excellent 20 year old" which is an enormous contradiction. Anyone have any idea what's going on with this?

My first question is do you do hard efforts often enough? Here is some information from Garmin:

Running VO2 Max Estimate
For most devices, the activity must be recorded using the Run activity profile. The Trail Run activity is supported, but only on select devices.

• Running Activity must be 10 minutes or longer in length
  • vivosport requires up to 15 minutes in length
• Activity must be recorded outdoors with a GPS signal
• Heart rate data from either a built-in optical heart rate sensor or from a chest strap
• Heart rate must be elevated to at least 70% of your maximum heart rate for at least 10 minutes continuously
  • vivosport requires up to 15 minutes continuously

So, basically, do outdoor runs using the run profile, run at 70% of your maximum heart rate, and make sure you heart rate settings are accurate.

 

[Herding_Cats]

My first question is do you do hard efforts often enough? Here is some information from Garmin:

Running VO2 Max Estimate
For most devices, the activity must be recorded using the Run activity profile. The Trail Run activity is supported, but only on select devices.

• Running Activity must be 10 minutes or longer in length all of my outdoor runs are usually 40min or longer, and I spend most of my run in "zone 4" according to my watch
  • vivosport requires up to 15 minutes in length
• Activity must be recorded outdoors with a GPS signal it is recording my run with gps....the little map shows up at the end of where i went.
• Heart rate data from either a built-in optical heart rate sensor or from a chest strap it has the optical sensor, and i get all of the hr data for each run
• Heart rate must be elevated to at least 70% of your maximum heart rate for at least 10 minutes continuously
  • vivosport requires up to 15 minutes continuously

So, basically, do outdoor runs using the run profile, run at 70% of your maximum heart rate, and make sure you heart rate settings are accurate.

I feel like I'm hitting all of these points. My hr usually averages out around 150-160. I seriously doubt my max is 214 so I should also be over the 70% threshold.

 

[The Expert]

Sharing for those who follow Jeff Galloway:


After a career of being the cheerleader and coach for those who have come back from injuries and illness, I will now be the athlete on the recovery trail.
Last Monday I was just finishing up a short Elliptigo and rowing session when I got up and suddenly experienced a dizziness that I hadn’t had before. After trying to walk around the house to settle myself, the symptoms got worse - nausea and extreme fatigue. I had suffered a heart attack.
Ten days of tests, surgeries, monitoring, and more have revealed that I had a 100% blockage, survived a major heart attack, and had another heart attack while in the hospital.
With 5 stents and a pacemaker/defibrillator now implanted, I’m now on the road to recovery. My health and the Piedmont team allowed me to survive the heart attacks, but even those advantages won’t make it easy to get back to full strength.
My family and I thank you for your support during this recovery time. I will be taking some downtime to recuperate, but I can’t wait to be back seeing everyone at events, retreats, and virtually. I want to thank the team at Piedmont Hospital, my cardiologist Dr. Carlisle, and the amazing surgeons on the “plumbing” and “electrical” teams at Piedmont for giving me the chance to have this recovery. A special thanks goes to my wife, Barb, for celebrating our 45th anniversary by my side as my biggest supporter.
I hope you can get out today and run or walk, hug or call a loved one, and if you are feeling bad GO SEE SOMEONE about it. Doctors and science are pretty amazing!
Jeff

If you have questions or concerns, you may email info@JeffGalloway.com. Cards or letters for Jeff can be sent to Galloway Productions, 4651 Roswell Road, i-802, Atlanta GA 30342
Chris Twiggs
Chief Training Officer
Galloway Training

 

[DopeyBadger]

I have a garmin VO2max question (and I promise I've googled.) I'm not hung up on the number, because it's just a number and isn't going to change my training, but I'm annoyed by it. I have a Forerunner35, and until about a month ago only wore it when I ran (to track cumulative mileage, and compare HR data with my fitbit.) My VO2max hasn't changed since I got my garmin. At first I thought it was maybe because of incomplete data, since I only wore it during exercise. So around a month ago I decided to try to make the switch off my fitbit because wearing 2 trackers all the time looks silly, and I figured maybe that would get me an actual vo2max number. But it's still the same. Google tells me that maybe this number is only affected when you do OUTDOOR runs? I haven't gotten a ton of these in, but even then.....it hasn't changed since February, when I was definitely in worse shape and ran outside. For full disclosure, it says it's 34, and my fitbit (which has 3 years worth of data) says I'm closer to 37-39. My garmin connect screen TODAY says I'm in the "bottom 40%, poor" for my age and gender, and then right below says my "fitness age is that of an excellent 20 year old" which is an enormous contradiction. Anyone have any idea what's going on with this?

Seems like the text (fitness age is that of an excellent 20 year old) is wrong. The following is a chart based on actual VO2max values and not just the estimate the Garmin watch comes up with.



Do the Fitbit and Garmin have the same resting, max HR, and body weight data entered? That could easily influence why the two values are different from each other. Because the VO2max estimation is based on the % values from those two HR data points and the relationship to the pace you're running at that moment. They may also use different lookup tables for their conversion of HRvPace data to an estimated VO2max value.

As for the other part of the question, why isn't your Garmin VO2max value changing? It's important to realize that the Garmin VO2max value is based on the relationship between your HR (relative to your inputted max and rest) and pace during runs. So things that influence your HRvPace relationship can also influence the outputted Garmin VO2max value. Like if the weather suddenly goes from cool weather to super hot weather. The hot weather will make your HR go up at the same pace:



So when that occurs, the Garmin will interpret the data as if you were becoming "less fit", but that's not necessarily the case. Rather the Garmin VO2max value is better explained as a "VO2peak" value. Instead it says this is what your HRvPace relationship is based on the recent conditions (weather and course difficulty amongst others). Similarly, if you went from exclusively training on flat roads, and then suddenly did all your training straight up a mountain, then your HRvPace relationship will change. Making the value drop. Again, not because your fitness is truly less, but rather because under those conditions (mountain) that's a representation of your current fitness under those same conditions.

The more outdoor runs you do, the more accurate the Garmin VO2max will be with the increased number of data points.

I personally track the HRvPace data in the following manner. I track the date, pace, HR, T+D, and adjusted pace of each run. Keeping in mind other possible reasons why a run is not a good representation of current fitness. My route generally stays the same.



I put the data into two week blocks, graph it, and then put a line of best fit (power) to represent the data over time.



What it shows is where my current fitness is at each of those moments. When my line shifts down and to the left, it means that I'm getting faster at the same HR level. And in general, that means I'm getting fitter/faster/have a higher Garmin VO2max value. So using the graph above, when I started in late June at a HR of 136 my pace was a 9:56 min/mile. In Late October at my peak, at the same HR of 136, my pace was a 7:55 min/mile. Comparatively, my Garmin VO2max went from a 49 in June to a 58 in October. Granted for me the relationship between my Garmin VO2max and VDOT performance is a delta of 6.

So if the conditions of your runs are the same (weather, course difficulty, etc.) and your Garmin VO2max value still doesn't change, then it just means you're not responding to the training just quite yet. Granted, the Garmin VO2max value is not purely predictive of performance, it can be a useful tool. In my experience, volume and training load form are the two most key training aspects that influence my Garmin VO2max value.

 

[jmasgat]

"RunMichiganCheap" has been posting/scheduling a LOT of races this week. I'm pretty sure they run most of their stuff in parks with paved trails, or on recreational trails (like converted rail-trails.) I haven't done any of these events, but I have at least one penciled in on my calendar now. They look like they're small events, pretty much show up, get your bib/chip and run.

Exactly this. I did a half a few years ago in the spring. It was very low key, run on a rail trail (and open at roads, but not that much of an issue). No shirts, no water, snacks, etc. I used it probably for a POT for Dopey 2018.

 

[RunDopey]

Seems like the text (fitness age is that of an excellent 20 year old) is wrong. The following is a chart based on actual VO2max values and not just the estimate the Garmin watch comes up with.

View attachment 570009

Do the Fitbit and Garmin have the same resting, max HR, and body weight data entered? That could easily influence why the two values are different from each other. Because the VO2max estimation is based on the % values from those two HR data points and the relationship to the pace you're running at that moment. They may also use different lookup tables for their conversion of HRvPace data to an estimated VO2max value.

As for the other part of the question, why isn't your Garmin VO2max value changing? It's important to realize that the Garmin VO2max value is based on the relationship between your HR (relative to your inputted max and rest) and pace during runs. So things that influence your HRvPace relationship can also influence the outputted Garmin VO2max value. Like if the weather suddenly goes from cool weather to super hot weather. The hot weather will make your HR go up at the same pace:

View attachment 570011

So when that occurs, the Garmin will interpret the data as if you were becoming "less fit", but that's not necessarily the case. Rather the Garmin VO2max value is better explained as a "VO2peak" value. Instead it says this is what your HRvPace relationship is based on the recent conditions (weather and course difficulty amongst others). Similarly, if you went from exclusively training on flat roads, and then suddenly did all your training straight up a mountain, then your HRvPace relationship will change. Making the value drop. Again, not because your fitness is truly less, but rather because under those conditions (mountain) that's a representation of your current fitness under those same conditions.

The more outdoor runs you do, the more accurate the Garmin VO2max will be with the increased number of data points.

I personally track the HRvPace data in the following manner. I track the date, pace, HR, T+D, and adjusted pace of each run. Keeping in mind other possible reasons why a run is not a good representation of current fitness. My route generally stays the same.

View attachment 570012

I put the data into two week blocks, graph it, and then put a line of best fit (power) to represent the data over time.

View attachment 570013

What it shows is where my current fitness is at each of those moments. When my line shifts down and to the left, it means that I'm getting faster at the same HR level. And in general, that means I'm getting fitter/faster/have a higher Garmin VO2max value. So using the graph above, when I started in late June at a HR of 136 my pace was a 9:56 min/mile. In Late October at my peak, at the same HR of 136, my pace was a 7:55 min/mile. Comparatively, my Garmin VO2max went from a 49 in June to a 58 in October. Granted for me the relationship between my Garmin VO2max and VDOT performance is a delta of 6.

So if the conditions of your runs are the same (weather, course difficulty, etc.) and your Garmin VO2max value still doesn't change, then it just means you're not responding to the training just quite yet. Granted, the Garmin VO2max value is not purely predictive of performance, it can be a useful tool. In my experience, volume and training load form are the two most key training aspects that influence my Garmin VO2max value.

Excellent, data driven description as always I always get my drop in the spring and bump in the fall, living in Houston. My new Garmin is supposed to adjust for temp, and I will be interested to see what happens this year.

 

[avondale]

Excellent, data driven description as always I always get my drop in the spring and bump in the fall, living in Houston. My new Garmin is supposed to adjust for temp, and I will be interested to see what happens this year.

Which Garmin are you getting?

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

I'm not in racing shape, but I'm toeing the line this morning!

04/25 - @OldSlowGoofyGuy - Suwanee Arts Center SuperHero 5K (Goal: 25:59 / Results:TBD)

 

[GrandAdmiralStrife]

Man, what a great 3 days of non-scale victories!

First, Friday, regular lab results came back, I am in excellent health, just need to keep meds for cholesterol and blood pressure management (family genetics yay); doc said I have the heart of an athlete, she was shocked.

Saturday: first live race in over a year, Tri Doc 10k, came in last (it's really all super serious runners from Rogue Running group) but set a PR at 1:25;32

Today: Austin Half Marathon, in person, and set PRs for 10k and the Half (10k by 3 at 1:22:17 and the Half by a whopping FOURTEEN MINUTES at 3:11:55)