The Running Thread - 2020

Well i ended up with new balance 880s. I was really pretty underwhelmed with the in-person fitting and everything. I need a neutral shoe (which the brooks virtual fit also recommended) and I tried a few on, but it was basically just trying on shoes. Idk. She kept saying “I can bring out more shoes” and asking if i prefer a lighter or heavier shoe, etc and I really have no idea what I like. I’m just hoping this solves my ankle irritation issues.
 
I really have no idea what I like.

So I've found that I really need to run in the shoes a couple times before I know if I like them or not. I've tried on a few pairs that I've been like "wow these are awesome/perfect" in the store and then run in them and been underwhelmed. And there's been some that I've been "meh" about trying on (the new Nike Vomero for example) and when I ran in them I decided I loved them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. It just may be some trial and error for the first few couple of pairs. And then once you find your shoe(s) you have to hope the company doesn't change/discontinue them!!
 
So I've found that I really need to run in the shoes a couple times before I know if I like them or not. I've tried on a few pairs that I've been like "wow these are awesome/perfect" in the store and then run in them and been underwhelmed. And there's been some that I've been "meh" about trying on (the new Nike Vomero for example) and when I ran in them I decided I loved them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. It just may be some trial and error for the first few couple of pairs. And then once you find your shoe(s) you have to hope the company doesn't change/discontinue them!!
Yeah, my shoe was recently discontinued. 🥺
I hate trying to find new shoes after one has been working really well for me for several years! I recently bought a pair, ran a couple of miles in them, and then remembered that I used to have issues of half my feet/toes going numb after a mile or two in new shoes. I haven’t dealt with this in a while! Usually the numbness works itself out once the shoes are broken in, but I don’t want to deal with it! I returned those, and bought the other two that I had been deciding between. One of those also gives me numb feet, I will return them, and the other doesn’t.There are a couple things that makes me a little cautious with these - it could just be circumstances with tired feet from standing all day prior to running...
I went ahead and bought a last pair of my old running shoes from Running Warehouse. These (and a relatively new pair) will hopefully get me through the fall ‘racing’ season (if any races happen).
I’m glad I have a store where I can return shoes after I have ran in them. Hopefully that new style shoe will work out.
 


I don't think I ever posted June totals 🤦‍♀️
June Totals:

90.3 miles
I have no idea about the other totals because I didn't keep up with them. 5 days recovery from minor surgery kept me from triple digits.

July Totals:

103.9 miles
13:56 average pace
10:13:59 cross training hours

Other news:
- gained 5 lbs. I enjoyed vacation a little too much 😉
- I started my new training plan even though W&D weekend isn't happening. I went with the refund but I'm going to continue training. I do better when on a plan.
- Most of my runs have been on the new treadmill because summer...it's hot!
 
Welcome. I have no idea what hip/knee issues you were having and it sounds like you have a PT that can help but I highly recommend this book for mobility work. Many, though by no means all, problems people have with running and walking are muscle imbalances and lack of mobility and are correctable with some dedicated attention.
Thanks!!
 
A couple of months ago, I got new shoes. I always get gray, but this time I got white ones for fun.

Fresh out of the box, with Mikey assisting.

516399

Here's the second pair, with 135 miles on them. This time, Bert is assisting. It's been so hot and dry here, that is almost all trail dust and not mud.

516400

Guess I'm going back to gray!
 


So I've found that I really need to run in the shoes a couple times before I know if I like them or not. I've tried on a few pairs that I've been like "wow these are awesome/perfect" in the store and then run in them and been underwhelmed. And there's been some that I've been "meh" about trying on (the new Nike Vomero for example) and when I ran in them I decided I loved them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. It just may be some trial and error for the first few couple of pairs. And then once you find your shoe(s) you have to hope the company doesn't change/discontinue them!!
Whenever I have spare money in my budget for shoes, even if I don't need new running shoes yet, I check around for sales and keep checking until I can pick something up--I have a really hard time finding shoes that fit me right since I wear men's sizes but most men's shoes are too wide for me, so I stock up whenever the ones I like drop below $100/pair and I have the money to spare. Really grateful that Hoka's Arahi 3 actually fits me better than the Arahi 2; that was a pleasant surprise after a lot of worry when I realized the 2's were being discontinued. Planning to break my Arahi 3's in sometime around November and use them for the WDW Marathon, leave my last pair of unused Arahi 2's for next year unless the current pair give out this fall. But yeah, if you find something you like and you have the opportunity to stock up, build that stockpile!

Other problem I have is that my right foot is half a size smaller than my left. So I end up with shoes that fit great on my left but I end up adjusting the laces on the right multiple times over the course of a long run and it's never quite right. Thinking about taking up wearing two socks on the right foot to see if that helps.
 
+1 for stockpiling when I find a shoe I love and it goes on sale. I failed recently, though: was holding out for an even bigger price drop on Brooks Glycerin 17s when the 18s released... and they were GONE by the time I tried to buy more. Luckily, I still have one pair of 16s and one pair of 17s in boxes, plus one 16 on its last legs, one 16 about 75% done, and a 17 with about 30 miles on it, so I'm good for a while. Hopefully until the 18s go on sale! I did pick up a pair of Launch 7s on sale today, so I won't get shut out on those.
 
Speaking of that, the Ghost 13 is out, so time to stock up on 12s. I ordered 3 pair today (not white!).

I‘ve still got 4 or 5 pairs of Ghost 11s left right now. I’ve been rotating Ghost 10s and 11s for the past year or so. I did pick up a pair of the 12s when they hit the first price drop and they’re currently in the rotation making sure they’ll be ok to move on to after the 11s. So far, so good. I’m paranoid about not having a workable shoe to run in after the Glycerin 14 debacle!
 
Did a mile PT-approved test run today....it did not really go well. From the first steps, the bouncing just exacerbated my neck/shoulder /arm symptoms, causing me to feel discomfort in spots that I thought had healed. On a positive note, the symptoms stopped when I stopped running. ("Doctor, it hurts when I do this....Doctor:"Then don't do that")

So I guess I'll stick to my original plan not to run til September. But I think PT has helped me reach the asymptote of recovery. Hoping to get discharged next week.

Also, I decided to treat myself to a virtual race. I signed up for Beat the Blerch. I have no intent to race, just run, and only a 5k distance whenever.
 
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I know this has been a common complaint during the end of month summary, but does anyone else's training quality really suffering from lack of races due to lack of other runners? I'm definitely am someone who needs competition to do my best.

Me on my training run today: plodding along at 10:00/miles feeling like that is fast enough with the heat + humidity
Me suddenly spotting two men running faster on the opposite of the street from me: sudden transition to 8:00/miles for the next 2 miles with no increase in breathing and barely an increase in heart rate.
 
I know this has been a common complaint during the end of month summary, but does anyone else's training quality really suffering from lack of races due to lack of other runners? I'm definitely am someone who needs competition to do my best.

Me on my training run today: plodding along at 10:00/miles feeling like that is fast enough with the heat + humidity
Me suddenly spotting two men running faster on the opposite of the street from me: sudden transition to 8:00/miles for the next 2 miles with no increase in breathing and barely an increase in heart rate.

I try very hard not to get competitive with anyone else during training. One thing that I have found to really help as far as keeping the effort level up, though, is the Hanson’s-based target paces that come along with @DopeyBadger training plans. With the cancellation of my latest two races, I reset my training to target a NYC Virtual Marathon run. That gives me the target mileage and pacing to stay on track. Even though I’m not a fan of virtual runs, the benefits of this approach should outweigh that. Even if you don’t have his pacing, Hanson’s can be used to set something similar up.
 
I know this has been a common complaint during the end of month summary, but does anyone else's training quality really suffering from lack of races due to lack of other runners? I'm definitely am someone who needs competition to do my best.
I definitely need a race to inspire my training. Fortunately, the Run the Bluegrass HM in Lexington, KY is still on for it's new date of October 3rd. It's a bit of a drive from the northwest suburbs of Chicago, but it will be well worth it if it really happens.
 
I know this has been a common complaint during the end of month summary, but does anyone else's training quality really suffering from lack of races due to lack of other runners? I'm definitely am someone who needs competition to do my best.

Me on my training run today: plodding along at 10:00/miles feeling like that is fast enough with the heat + humidity
Me suddenly spotting two men running faster on the opposite of the street from me: sudden transition to 8:00/miles for the next 2 miles with no increase in breathing and barely an increase in heart rate.

Any group runs in your area that you could join up with? Or just challenge random other runners to impromptu races? I've done impromptu races from time to time with random kids (sometimes on bikes). Darn girl with the streamers and saying "Vroom, Vroom" to me. Still can't believe I lost that one...

Like @camaker I like structure that comes with a training plan. So that's with variable pacing across the spectrum as well as a progressive increase in volume. So my training quality is based on my desire to meet my expectations of my structured training with my motivation tied to what I hope will be long term gains. Plus, I just enjoy it in general. I'm hoping to do a time trial this winter (either HM or M) and am aiming for a PR.

So having other runners doesn't really influence my training. But it definitely influences my abilities on race day as being the Pac-Man is exhilarating. Although pre-COVID19, I was planning on doing a local speed series at the track this summer because I was interested to see what it would be like doing some truly fast paced training with rabbits on the track.
 
... I was interested to see what it would be like doing some truly fast paced training with rabbits on the track.

Now I have a picture of you running around a track chasing a mechanical rabbit and hoping to catch it before it gets back to its box, accompanied by the announcer calling “tally ho!” and a trumpet blast.
 
@camaker Honestly, I'm not a fan of structured training plans. Due to irregular length of work days and an extremely long commute, if the choice is getting an extra hour of sleep or a run to fit the plan, I'm going with the sleep. Fortunately, with the main running motivators being "survive zombie apocalypse" and "burn off dessert", the irregular structure of my week still suffices. I just find it interesting how the perceived effort level of running is different depending on external stimuli (in this case, running faster was the same perceived effort level due to "competition", in others effort level can change depending on how engrossing an audiobook or music can be, ect.)

@DopeyBadger All the local running clubs discontinued their group runs due to Covid, but I'll try looking further afield. If I can find one still holding group runs on the weekend, I'd probably make an effort to go once a month.
 
@DopeyBadger All the local running clubs discontinued their group runs due to Covid, but I'll try looking further afield. If I can find one still holding group runs on the weekend, I'd probably make an effort to go once a month.

Yea, that's understandable. Maybe the next time you see those randos on the street you say, "hey, bet I can beat you to X!"

I just find it interesting how the perceived effort level of running is different depending on external stimuli (in this case, running faster was the same perceived effort level due to "competition", in others effort level can change depending on how engrossing an audiobook or music can be, ect.)

Influencers of perception of effort I summarized some time ago:

Eureka! The Quintessential Running Post

Psychobiological Model: The desire, the motivation, and the ability to block it out!
Alright, so we've got our speed cap (VO2max), our pace before we crash (Lactate Threshold), and our ability to hold the pace prior to crashing (Running Economy), but what happens after the crash begins. Well, I think the Psychobiological model of endurance running can help explain that:

The Psychobiological model is an effort-based decision model based on motivational intensity theory. The model states there are five factors that primarily determine regulation of pacing.

1) Perception of effort
2) Potential motivation
3) Knowledge of distance/time to cover
4) Knowledge of distance/time remaining
5) Previous experience/memory of perception of effort during exercise of varying intensity and duration

The potential motivation is defined, as the maximum effort a person is willing to exert to meet a certain task. The motivational intensity is the amount of effort that people actually expend to meet that task. The combination of these two ideas into the Motivational Intensity Theory creates the framework for why an individual will continue in a task: either the level of potential motivation hasn’t been reached or the task is still viewed as possible. A person will disengage from the task when either the perception of effort outweighs the potential motivation or the person believes they are physically unable to maintain the task (believed to maxed effort).

So what does this mean? Well we can have two people with the same LT pace. They can have equivalent economy and equivalent VO2max and yet they STILL might not finish at the same pace. Why? Because one is more WILLING to tolerate the pain/level of fatigue they're feeling. They might both be at a lactate concentration of 3.5 mmol/L (normal is around 1.0) and yet runner A might have a higher motivational reason for running and thus is willing to tolerate the feeling of 3.5 mmol/L of fatigue by products more so than runner B. Runner A keeps maintaining pace and Runner B succumbs to the feeling of fatigue and slows down.

So can we train our bodies to become more resistant to the feeling of fatigue? Can we alter our perception of effort and thus maintain this higher pain threshold? Yes, you can.

Dampeners of Perception of Effort (Factor 1)

Music
Essentially, it has been shown in many studies that by having music that is enjoyed, self-selected, and has a high bpm the overall perception of effort is decreased. This decreased perception of effort was connected with increased ability when used during races below the anaerobic threshold. I believe this is because in a 5K the physical limitations are what they are and the dampening of effort is ineffective. However, prior to a 5K using amping up music works by raising self confidence and HR. So pump up the jams and you'll reduce your perception of effort. You can run faster listening to music you like that has a high beats per minute.

Caffeine
Apparently an antagonist of adenosine which has a significant number of receptors in the brain that are responsible for sleep, memory, learning and cognition. Since caffeine occupies these receptors without actually activating them it is hypothesized that the perception of effort during endurance events is dampened and performance increases. An 11.2% improvement in performance was seen with a decreased perception of effort by using caffeine during running.

Self Talk
When one repeats positive messages to themselves its been shown to improve a test to exhaustion by almost 17%. So keep reminding yourself when you're running how awesome you're doing. Keep blocking out those negative thoughts. This is the main reason I race blind. I like to keep everything positive and I know from my personal experience that if I have GPS feedback on HR or pace that I'll freak out and start to have negative thoughts. By running blind I withhold that information from myself and thus keep those positive thoughts flowing.

Amplifiers of Perception of Effort (Factor 1)

Mental Fatigue
A study was conducted on cyclists that had to perform one of two simple tests. For a period of time prior to cycling the subjects had to state the color of the word. In group A, the color of the word matched the actual word (Word Blue was written in Blue ink), whereas the second group the word blue did not necessarily appear in the color blue. The second group was more mentally challenging, but in the grand scheme of mental tasks was not overly difficult. While the rate at which perception of effort increased equally, the starting point was significantly higher in the group who had to complete the “harder” mental task even though that task had no additional physical component. The harder mental task caused a decrease in performance by about 4% from the easier mental task. It is hypothesized that this harder mental task works in the same area of the brain as adenosine, which might explain the possible increase in perception of effort.

There was also another study similar to this one that put elites against normal cyclists. The small twist was adding in if the word was "red" it always had the answer of red regardless of the color of the word. So, it was like a third variable thrown at the cyclists. The elites were able to answer more words correctly, do it faster, and then afterwards had little to no difference between the easy task and hard task on its affect of a ride to exhaustion. Yet the normal person was slower on these tasks, got more wrong, and showed a large difference in how they responded on the cycle to exhaustion with after the easy task they performed better than after the hard task. So not only were the elite cyclists better cyclists, but they showed the ability to handle mental fatigue better than the normal cyclists.

So what does it mean for me and how can I use this information?

You can potentially decrease the perception of effort by:

-Listening to music you enjoy, makes you happy, and has a higher bpm.
-Use caffeine during exercise (I won’t do this one because caffeine gives me a headache).
-During the entire event use positive thinking. Consistently tell yourself how awesome you are and how awesome you are doing. If a negative thought comes in your head “Why did I sign up for this?” try to counter balance it with positive thoughts. Remember why you signed up for this. Remember how proud you are making someone in your life. Remember that you are rocking this!
-Reduce the amount of things you are thinking about prior to and during running. Set out your clothes in advance. Plan your driving route. Reduce your mental gymnastics by pre-planning as much as possible.

What about the other factors?
Potential Motivation
-One of my biggest motivators is trying to beat others. But something I’ve found for myself is this is self-dampened when there is a staggered start. It’s hard to know whether the person passing you is actually beating you or not because maybe they started ahead of you or behind you. But in a single start race it’s more likely when someone passes you they are actually head of you time wise as well. Are you going for that BQ? Are you going for a new PR? Do you have another race in three weeks and you're wiling to bag this one when it's not going well (a loss in motivation)?

Knowledge of Distance/Time to cover (Factor 3)
-This is hard to manipulate in an actual race because in almost all scenarios you usually know the duration/distance that is going to be covered.

Knowledge of Distance/Time remaining (Factor 4)
-I believe in running by effort and thus ignoring how you’ve been performing. I feel like in the past I have been overly negative during running when a mile split comes in at an unexpected slower pace. In this negative loop this causes me to start thinking about alternative finishing times. Then your goals start to slip away and your motivation wains. Without your motivation your perception of effort increases and makes everything feel harder than it would have been. As you can see I feel these are all connected in a cascade of events. To combat this, I ignore how I’ve been doing and just keep positive thoughts telling myself that I’m crushing it.

Previous experience/memory of perception of effort during exercise of varying intensity and duration (Factor 5)
-This one is physical and mental in my opinion. I believe this is where the training aspect of running comes in physically. The fitter you get the easier something feels. What was once tough is easier because your level of perception of effort has changed for that level of fitness.
-I follow this by trying to memorize what every run feels like. What does an easy run feel like? What does a marathon tempo feel like? What does a long run feel like? What does a full sprint feel like?
-Once you get to race day keep reminding yourself that this race is actually easier then some of your training runs. Keep telling yourself this is not that bad compared to that one training run you did.

A good article: https://www.podiumrunner.com/training/how-perception-of-effort-can-make-or-break-a-race/

*Something weird going on with spoilers today which I can't seem to fix.
 

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