The Running Thread - 2018

Well as you know my plans max out at 3 hrs (if using run/walk at MP + 2 min) whereas Galloway takes you out to the maximal distance (at a pace of MP + 2 min) so dependent on pace that could be 5, 6, 7 or 8 hours. Honestly, thousands of runners have successfully used Galloway's plans to cross the finish line and at the same time I've had a few hundred plans (lots of multiple users) cross the finish line. We do it differently, but get you to the same destination. Now if one of your strong considerations is wanting to go the full distance in training, then that's definitely a push towards Galloway as it goes against one of my core philosophies (duration limit). But I do feel that spreading the training load over the course of the entire week can yield a positive outcome on race day. The testimonials I've gathered from similarly paced runners bears that out. Of the 222 custom plans I've written, I've only had one person really dislike the training methodology. Most others have found the training enjoyable and been quite pleased with the final result.
I really appreciate you always taking the time to answer questions and such. Honestly, I don't particularly like the idea of 5-6 hour training runs. In some ways, that idea has held me back from the marathon for a long time.

My reasoning for believing that I need 5-6 hour runs:

1. Fuel. I can run a half with no in race fuel. I do not like to do this, nor do I recommend it. Sometimes I forget to take fuel during a race or in training. For a half, this is not disastrous. But the full is a very different matter.

2. Bathroom breaks. Nobody likes to take these during a race. I've learned from the wrong kind of experience that it's not the end of the world. But again my longest run is a half. I know what to do to hopefully avoid it during a half, but will that translate to a full?

3. Physical impact of 6+ hours running. From what I've read my understanding is that mile 20 on is where the half gets interesting. Where it can start to really play with your mind. Maybe it's just my fear, but part of me feels like in order to know how to deal with the physical test that will come with this, I must have dealt with it in training.

Reasons for a customized plan designed by you:

1. Real feedback on what's going right and what isn't going right. Ability to safely adjust training during a period when a max run of 1 hour is a huge sacrifice considering 6-7 days of work a week with long hours to boot.

2. A concern that the Galloway plan calling for intense finishes to the running week will make it difficult to recover and risk over training heading into marathon weekend.

3. I've learned so much from the Galloway plan. In fact it's the very reason why I'm still at this. But that doesn't mean that I can't learn more and possibly find a way that works better for me.

Your body is capable of doing far more than your mind thinks it can. When I finally had that click, it made running and approaching races far less stressful and intimidating. I can’t imagine running 5-6 hours in training runs. That would be a bigger barrier to me than the race itself. I heartily recommend you give @DopeyBadger a chance to set something up for you. Galloway is what you know, but you may be missing out on something that could work better for you. Don’t let your fears and your mind hold you back!
I really appreciate this. While I do not relish even the thought of 5-6 hour runs regularly, based on my most recent fastest time of 3:06 in a half, I have to operate under the assumption that I'm looking at 6+ hours to finish the full. My January attempt to increase my speed ended in runners knee. Time off and resuming training previous speeds proved enough to finish all 3 Dark Sides races. This time around, I'm hoping to address the issues that caused the runners knee before it causes a problem.
 
I need to catch up on race results:
@LSUlakes
Star Wars runDisney:
SWDS 10k Mr. 1:06:07
SWDS 1/2 Mr. 2:15:15

SWDS 1/2 Mrs. 3:28:09 Ring the PR bell!

Corning Glassfest 8k Mr. 45:58 I really enjoyed this race, and would do it again in a heartbeat. If Corning organizes all their races this well, I see their half (at least) in the future. Technically a PR, as I've never run this exact distance before.
 
This one gets its own post:

6/9/18 Run Like an Animal 5k Mr. 23:10* (2.5 miles) Is that asterisk large enough? I did NOT PR this race. There were significant on-course direction issues, which led to 3 different distances being run. Most of us ran 2.5 miles, myself included. The course included a loop we were to run twice in a residential neighborhood. Unfortunately, many runners went down the wrong street during their 2nd trip through the loop.

To their credit: the race organizers quickly recognized the error, and requested anybody who had a tracking device that showed fewer than 5k to please inform timing and scoring. Overall monetary prizes for 1-2-3 were suspended pending review the following week. Age group awards were given out day-of the race. And- they announced (twice, so they made sure you heard it) that everyone who ran would be given free entry into the 2019 race, as a gesture of apology. There are some races in the area who had some "troubles" with cancellations/weather in 2018 (I'm looking at you- Hershey 10k). I made sure to tell them before I left that I thought their offer was more than fair, to me.

Post race food: Rita's Italian Ice (mango and watermelon). Bagels, bananas, and lots of yummy treats. You see- the race started, ended, and was sponsored by a local cookie company. They had tons of their product, as well as product from their Japanese parent company.

Post race door prizes: They had around 50 door prizes for just under 200 runners. You had to be present to win. Some did win twice; one woman won THREE times! I won a bag containing about 5 pounds of the company's products. Prizes included: MLB tickets, HersheyPark tickets, Zoo America tickets, $100 from the local running store, $150 from a really nice restaurant downtown, and a DeWalt cordless power drill! I'd do this race again for the door prizes and snacks alone!
 
Since the pizza topic continues (and why shouldn't it? Pizza is amazing!) What is everyone's favorite pizza (or "flatbread") at WDW?

I've heard a lot of people rave about the in-room pizza. But, I just can't imagine it compares to TS pizza at WDW! I enjoy Mama Melrose and Wofgang Puck Express. Who else offers yummy pizza pie?
 

Since the pizza topic continues (and why shouldn't it? Pizza is amazing!) What is everyone's favorite pizza (or "flatbread") at WDW?

I've heard a lot of people rave about the in-room pizza. But, I just can't imagine it compares to TS pizza at WDW! I enjoy Mama Melrose and Wofgang Puck Express. Who else offers yummy pizza pie?
Blaze at DS! I love it (and the similar Pizza Press near DLR).
 
QOTD: Today is the first day of summer with fall starting 9/22. What are your running goals this summer?

Continue my efforts to get back into running shape. Slow and steady.

Hey guys - been absent for a while. Had abdominal surgery (cancer scare) in late January/early February. I am finally past the surgery and have started running again. So this QOTD is very appropriate for me as I reassess my running goals for the year.

Essentially, my VO2 Max went from 51 to 38 from months of forced layoff from all exercise (seriously, I wasn't allowed to do anything but walk for months, and much of that was very slow). I started jogging again 4 weeks ago and have already improved my VO2 Max to 42, but man is it going to be hard to get back above 50. I have to put together a training plan to get there, and I haven't been this weak (as a runner) in my adult life. Really not sure what that will look like yet, but instead of taking the "stay healthy" approach during these months I am going to be pushing myself.

I would love to hear thoughts from others who have faced a similar hurdle. I don't have any races planned, but I really want/need to improve my VO2 Max.

From mid-October of last year to mid-March this year (so, over a five-month period), I had surgery, I changed jobs such that I had to leave earlier in the morning, and then, right as I was getting to the end of surgery recovery, I broke my wrist (snowboarding). Even though I could have returned to running a couple weeks after the wrist injury (towards the end of January), by that time, I was no longer in the habit of running every day, and I didn't really feel like running in a cast, so I continued my errant ways. Anyway, my VO2 Max went from 56 to 45 during that time, so I understand your position.

I basically just started back at square one in mid-March with a simple goal of consistently running 3-4 times per week and very slowly ramping up the mileage (started in the 2-3 mile range). For the first two months, I only ran at easy paces and increased up to a max of 5 miles on the runs. For the last month, I have started adding some short tempo and speed workouts once a week (at conservative paces) while still increasing my "long" run (currently at 6 miles). I am still not in great running shape, but I'm slowly working my way back and, most importantly, staying injury-free. My VO2 Max has only risen from 45 to 48, but at least it's moving in the right direction.
 
Seems like the BBQ discussion has died down a bit, so it's my turn to stir the pot. I grew up in Texas and spent much of my life there through age 26, so I definitely started life with the Texas-BBQ-is-the-way-to-go mentality. That being said, I have lived and visited (on a long-term basis) many places throughout the U.S., and I have come to respect other BBQ as well. The bottom line is that you can find really good and really bad BBQ in every place you visit: yes, even in Texas. I have even come to appreciate some of the sauces (although I'm not one to smother anything in a sauce).

My favorites are still sliced brisket and dry rubbed ribs. In fact, my first order at any new BBQ joint is sliced brisket because I think you can tell a lot about a BBQ place by their brisket. Unfortunately, I have lived up North way too long, and although there are a few respectable BBQ places in the Chicago area, I mostly just use my own smoker for BBQ here. I have been working on making the perfect brisket, and after trying for over 10 years, I still haven't made it, but that won't stop me from trying for another 10 years.

ETA: I just realized there was not one running-related thing in this post, so... "I run so I can eat more BBQ."
 
@Sleepless Knight, I can see where you're coming from. Let me address your concerns as best I can.

1. Fuel. I can run a half with no in race fuel. I do not like to do this, nor do I recommend it. Sometimes I forget to take fuel during a race or in training. For a half, this is not disastrous. But the full is a very different matter.

Agreed. A full is absolutely different than a half marathon when considering fuel. It's entirely possible to finish a HM without taking in fuel. But finishing a marathon without fuel is significantly more difficult. I'll spare the math, but if a normal person with a normal metabolic efficiency where to run a marathon, they'd run out of glycogen in the body at about mile 16-19. If the person were to run slower, then that value could be extended outwards. If faster, then it would come sooner. Assumptions are being made with that calculation, but it goes to show how a HM could be done without fuel but a marathon is a different matter.

Now, the point would be asked then, could you practice fueling for a marathon in training without having to do 5-6 hour runs? Yes, you can. In my training programs I assign no fuel to be consumed on runs less than 90 min (electrolytes are acceptable). For all training runs longer than 90 min, nutrition/fuel practice is required. Unless someone is highly trained and looking to squeeze that last bit of juice then we'd play around with glycogen depletion training. But I don't pull that tool from the toolbox unless I have to. During those runs of longer than 90 min is when you find what works best for you. Do you like chews, gels, drinks, etc.? Do you like flavors or brands? How much water do you need to consume for things to appropriately digest? All these things can be accomplished during training runs that occur between 90-180 min.

The one thing you can't do on a training run limited to 180 min is test how your body will respond to fuel in the very late stages of a race. And that's a completely valid point. As most people find, as the race goes longer and longer the body becomes less and less tolerant to actually absorbing whatever you throw at it. The best thing to do is to load up on a decent amount of carbs in the early stages of the race when the body is more tolerant. That includes taking a bolus dose of carbs about 15 min prior to the start since this is like a "free time" where the body isn't focused on racing quite yet. Then load up on carbs early and often (with a plan in mind) as to continue to push back that glycogen depletion wall. The maximal per hour carb consumption limit is 90 g. If one were to consume 90g per hour, then a 250 pound male marathoner (just as an example and not to be a guess about you) running around a 6 hour marathon would consume around 560g carbs which by the average calculation would last a person ~37 miles (assuming they had the fitness to run a marathon around 6 hours). Far more than the 26.2 needed to go the distance. Although I don't recommend aiming for 90g since it's quite close to the tolerable limit. But just as an example.

So yes, limiting a run to 180 min in training could be a concern for the purpose of practicing late stage fuel consumption.

2. Bathroom breaks. Nobody likes to take these during a race. I've learned from the wrong kind of experience that it's not the end of the world. But again my longest run is a half. I know what to do to hopefully avoid it during a half, but will that translate to a full?

I can see this. I've typically found that consumption of water and pace will be a determining factor for whether one needs to use the bathroom. Generally that urge to go happens during the early stages of the race and not as often during the late stages (usually a tad more dehydrated in the late stages). For me, I practice this on a daily basis. I aim not to take in any liquids within 120 min of starting a run. I've done this thousands of times now and only a mere handful as it ever caused me an issue where I had the urge to go mid-run. So my suggestion is to practice on a daily basis the timing of liquid consumption pre-run and see if you get the urge.

But at the end of the day, even in the most planned outcomes, when you have to go you have to go. And there really isn't any amount of practicing that's going to change that. So if you find you train multiple 5-6 hour training runs and never have to use the bathroom, but on race day it happens. There's not much else to say except, time to go.

3. Physical impact of 6+ hours running. From what I've read my understanding is that mile 20 on is where the half gets interesting. Where it can start to really play with your mind. Maybe it's just my fear, but part of me feels like in order to know how to deal with the physical test that will come with this, I must have dealt with it in training.

Also valid. It is completely true that the point in the race that is usually the crux for most runners occurs around mile 18-20. It's true of those who do 11 mile max LRs and true for those who do 23 mile max LRs. Since the LR is going to be much slower than the actual race day pace (if following either Galloway or my plan correctly), then you won't really be simulating that true feeling that comes at mile 20. But we can get close to simulating it.

Galloway gets there by providing a single day stimulus up to that 24, 25, or 26 mile max run. I provide that stimulus by not allowing you to be "fresh" entering the LR. Instead of the super LR, you instead do two runs consecutively that carries some fatigue from one day to the next. The idea is that allowing the body some rest between these bouts of exercise mitigates the risk of a super LR but yields a similar training stimulus both physically and mentally. And that's an important consideration with my plans. While I might not do a 24, 25, or 26 mile LR, it by no means means my plans are easier than Galloway's. The plans I write are tough at the end of them, but the payoff can be big and it's my goal to get you to the starting line as healthy as I can. There's risk in consecutive LRs and there's risk in a super LR. Neither is the right way, just two different ways to garner the same adaptation response in the body to yield the necessary tools to finish the race.

One thing I offer is to consider my consecutive training runs not as they appear. On the schedule it might say 7 LR + 11 LR on the weekend. That 11 LR isn't like training for miles 0-11 of the marathon. Because of the fatigue from the 7 mile LR the day prior, it's more like training for miles 14-26. Is it a perfect simulation? Most definitely not. The end of the marathon is super tough. It generally takes me 2 weeks to recover from the race and another 2-4 weeks before I feel normal again. That's not true of a single training run that I do. By the time that 2.5 hr training run comes on Sunday (granted at MP + 9% so it's slower), I'm ready for another 1.5-2 hr training run on Tuesday. I'm able to stack multiple quality workouts close to each other because I don't require a massive recovery period. But as soon as I cross that threshold and go to my marathon pace and distance of 26.2 miles, then suddenly I'm taking as much as 4-6 weeks to fully recover and be normal again. So that's 2 days vs 4-6 weeks. A significant amount of damage occurs during a marathon. Dependent on how close you race to your maximal capability makes that recovery period longer and longer.

But at the end of the day, I won't be able to squash that fear for you. Only you can take that leap of faith that says "yes, a 3 hr run/walk max LR can lead to a successful marathon day". But just remember that the LR is merely a single piece in the entire puzzle. It gets a lot of buzz, but no one run defines the training cycle. It's the cumulative effect of all the training put together that leads to a successful day. I've had races where I missed or had to cut short the final LR. I never hit the maximal distance. And yet on race day, I usually do as good as I expected. And that's because of all the other 99% of training runs, not simply the one longest one.

1. Real feedback on what's going right and what isn't going right. Ability to safely adjust training during a period when a max run of 1 hour is a huge sacrifice considering 6-7 days of work a week with long hours to boot.

Valid. My goal is to make the training plan fit around your life. Not make you fit your life around the training plan. You tell me what you can do. I tell you what to do with that time. But I'm always honest in what I believe the outcome will be. So someone could come to me and say I want to run a BQ but I can only train one day per week (an admittedly extreme example) and I'll simply say that it's going to be a really tough endeavor.

And I'm also here every step of the way. Something comes up and almost always in less than 24 hrs I'll tell you how to adjust the plan. I'll look at what I wrote, assess your situation, and then offer a suggested change. I'm always looking to maximize your performance on race day as best I can and that includes making multiple alterations along the way if necessary.

2. A concern that the Galloway plan calling for intense finishes to the running week will make it difficult to recover and risk over training heading into marathon weekend.

Valid. While Galloway's plan will require some serious recovery from the longest run which pushes out the next quality workouts, my plans generally stack them much closer together. But the key difference is that my plans typically don't allow you to fully recover during the training. They keep a low/medium hum of fatigue throughout. The goal for me is to progressively build that fatigue slowly so much so that you barely notice it's building. But ask others what that true taper feels like. Come race day you're going to feel like you've never felt before and realize just what that low/medium hum felt like throughout training.

3. I've learned so much from the Galloway plan. In fact it's the very reason why I'm still at this. But that doesn't mean that I can't learn more and possibly find a way that works better for me.

Just like you, I continue to read. I can not become complacent that I know everything there is to writing training plans. I don't and never will. And that means that plans I wrote 12 months ago look completely different than they do now. I'm always adapting my training techniques based on the individual responses I get from the different people. Some people respond differently to different stimuli. Some people handle more or less training better. Always trying to get a good read on the users so I can better figure out their puzzles. So while I know a lot, I can absolutely keep learning and I think that's true of pretty much everyone.

Galloway's no different. I was listening to a podcast with him a few months ago. They combed their dataset and came to some new conclusions. He then rolled out those conclusions among his users to try and hone in his technique even several decades old now.

I really appreciate this. While I do not relish even the thought of 5-6 hour runs regularly, based on my most recent fastest time of 3:06 in a half, I have to operate under the assumption that I'm looking at 6+ hours to finish the full. My January attempt to increase my speed ended in runners knee. Time off and resuming training previous speeds proved enough to finish all 3 Dark Sides races. This time around, I'm hoping to address the issues that caused the runners knee before it causes a problem.

The speed thing is a matter of how it went about being accomplished. Lots of different ways to attack it and I wouldn't be ready to toss in the towel on improving speed quite yet. Lots of tools in the toolbox to try and solve this one. Another one of my core philosophies is balance in training. It may simply be that you upset the balance in training and this led to some issues you were seeing.
 
I really appreciate you always taking the time to answer questions and such. Honestly, I don't particularly like the idea of 5-6 hour training runs. In some ways, that idea has held me back from the marathon for a long time.

My reasoning for believing that I need 5-6 hour runs:

1. Fuel. I can run a half with no in race fuel. I do not like to do this, nor do I recommend it. Sometimes I forget to take fuel during a race or in training. For a half, this is not disastrous. But the full is a very different matter.

2. Bathroom breaks. Nobody likes to take these during a race. I've learned from the wrong kind of experience that it's not the end of the world. But again my longest run is a half. I know what to do to hopefully avoid it during a half, but will that translate to a full?

3. Physical impact of 6+ hours running. From what I've read my understanding is that mile 20 on is where the half gets interesting. Where it can start to really play with your mind. Maybe it's just my fear, but part of me feels like in order to know how to deal with the physical test that will come with this, I must have dealt with it in training.
Caveat: I've not tried @DopeyBadger's plans, so I can't compare in any way. Nor have I used Galloway's. I make my own, I don't go as high in mileage as Galloway, and I am a 6+ hour marathoner, so I can share my personal experience with the items you mention.

1. Yes... training runs showed me that what I tolerate, and what is helpful, especially in late miles.

2. Less critical for me - the beauty of WDW is restrooms everywhere, so I never worried about needing one and not having one. But learning how to get it done quickly (read: getting sweaty capris back up without taking 10 minutes) in training was helpful!

3. This, for sure. For me, there's a period of intense physical discomfort that comes along around mile 17-18ish; if I push through it, I feel better on the other side. Having done that in training, I knew on race day I'd get through it.

The biggest thing training runs of 5+ hours do for me is eliminate the not knowing what it will be like in and on my body. Because I really need to not add that in to the constant mental alertness that comes with navigating a crowded, sensory-stimulating race course. I've finished all 3 marathons mentally exhausted, but physically feeling like I could go another 5 miles. And TBH, I really enjoy those super long training runs! BUT I'm not chasing times or PRs, which I'm sure makes a difference.

Since the pizza topic continues (and why shouldn't it? Pizza is amazing!) What is everyone's favorite pizza (or "flatbread") at WDW?
Via Napoli, Capricciosa! The margherita pizza at Wolfgang Puck Express at Disney Springs is a close 2nd.
 
Back to the pizza debate. I just received a voucher for two $5 code for online Papa Murphy orders as part of a class action settlement, yet our PapaMurphys closed a few years back. Send me a PM if you can use them.
 
I really appreciate you always taking the time to answer questions and such. Honestly, I don't particularly like the idea of 5-6 hour training runs. In some ways, that idea has held me back from the marathon for a long time.

My reasoning for believing that I need 5-6 hour runs:

1. Fuel. I can run a half with no in race fuel. I do not like to do this, nor do I recommend it. Sometimes I forget to take fuel during a race or in training. For a half, this is not disastrous. But the full is a very different matter.

2. Bathroom breaks. Nobody likes to take these during a race. I've learned from the wrong kind of experience that it's not the end of the world. But again my longest run is a half. I know what to do to hopefully avoid it during a half, but will that translate to a full?

3. Physical impact of 6+ hours running. From what I've read my understanding is that mile 20 on is where the half gets interesting. Where it can start to really play with your mind. Maybe it's just my fear, but part of me feels like in order to know how to deal with the physical test that will come with this, I must have dealt with it in training.

Reasons for a customized plan designed by you:

1. Real feedback on what's going right and what isn't going right. Ability to safely adjust training during a period when a max run of 1 hour is a huge sacrifice considering 6-7 days of work a week with long hours to boot.

2. A concern that the Galloway plan calling for intense finishes to the running week will make it difficult to recover and risk over training heading into marathon weekend.

3. I've learned so much from the Galloway plan. In fact it's the very reason why I'm still at this. But that doesn't mean that I can't learn more and possibly find a way that works better for me.

I really appreciate this. While I do not relish even the thought of 5-6 hour runs regularly, based on my most recent fastest time of 3:06 in a half, I have to operate under the assumption that I'm looking at 6+ hours to finish the full. My January attempt to increase my speed ended in runners knee. Time off and resuming training previous speeds proved enough to finish all 3 Dark Sides races. This time around, I'm hoping to address the issues that caused the runners knee before it causes a problem.

I'm only 2 days into my first official marathon training, so I do not have the history or expertise as these veterans on here do. But I know where you are coming from in your questioning and decision making about the training choices.
One thing that I've sort of embraced (and mostly for my very first half marathon but translating it to now) is that the race will be kind of like a continuation of the training. So it will be an experiment. I'm going to get that automatic PR and so all the "what ifs" I am ok with happening. What if I need to take bathroom breaks...I will find out and learn from it. What if I feel a ton of pain or tired at a certain point? I will find out and learn from it.
Instead of doing the 26.2 a few weeks prior to my race to find all these things out...I'm just gonna do the race to find them out. With proper Dopeybadger training prior.
And then if I decide to do a second marathon in my life. Like say...jan 2019...then I'll have that "training run" of a first race to draw from.
But I'm still going to practice all my fueling etc like Billy so eloquently explained above. If I'm gonna suffer for 5 hours (or however long it takes) I'm super okay with only doing that once this year. :)

My humble newbie two cents
 
Re @Sleepless Knight 's question about which plan and how long should the long runs be.

Some additional data points, in no particular order:

I marathon PRed by 36 minutes using an @DopeyBadger plan, with the longest run being 2.5 hours (16 miles). The idea is that because of cumulative fatigue, the long run simulates the last 16 miles of a marathon, not the first. DB probably already explained that, but just in case.

It doesn't do much good to do those excessively longs runs if you end up injured and don't make it to the starting line.

Re fueling: Pretty easy to practice on the long run and get a feel for what will work. I find that a mix of solids and liquids, especially early on is best. I use salted Fig Newtons, cut in half, in a zip lock bag. For me, getting some solid carbs postpones the point where your body says it has had enough Gatorade/Powerade.

Re bathrooms: My first couple of marathons I excessively hydrated, and had to make a bunch of pit stops. Let's just say maybe I made more pit stops than I visited porta-potties.

I look at it like this: do professional football players play hour long practice games every week? No, because it's too hard on the body. Instead, they work on drills to improve specific skills that all come together on game day to allow them to go full tilt.
 
My fave pizza/flatbread at Disney is the sausage ricotta one at contempo cafe in the contemporary. Not sure if still on the menu. Yum with a beer from the grab n go cooler :)
 
Also re @Sleepless Knight 's long run musings...

I have not done a marathon, but I did do a DB plan for my spring HM (and I still owe him my testimonial :o) but in the past I have felt like I needed that time on my feet to keep the later stages of the race from becoming a death slog.

In particular, last October I ran my 9th HM and I physically felt the worst during it than at any other race. There were a lot of environmental factors (cold and torrential rain) that contributed to that, but also I was coming off an injury for 4 months in the spring and while I did the training plan with my running group for the fall race, their plans always train for time, not distance. So, I put in the same amount of time as everyone else, but I am a much slower runner (my PR is 2:45 from 2.5 years ago and I have not come close to it since... everything has been in the 2:50-3:05 range since then). Our longest long run was, IIRC, 130 minutes, and I barely made 10 miles because I ran around the cemetary when we were done to try and round off the mileage, and I think I ran almost up to 140 minutes. We also were running 3x a week, which I also did for all my previous races, but I ran all my weekend long runs for distance not matter how long they took and topped out at 13 miles for Galloway/runDisney plans and I think 10-12 for most of my other ones. During the race last fall, my legs started shutting down around mile 8-9 and by mile 10, I was walking more than running. I felt like it was because I had barely gotten to 10 miles in the training, even though "everyone" always says you only need to go 10 miles in training (like "everyone" says that about 20 for marathon training).

Well, I was wrong. :) I was really scared of the back to back days for my DB plan. Even though I did not PR or hit my goal time (we weren't training for PR, I am a good 30 lbs heavier than I was when I PR'd before and did not have as good of a base coming off of winter running, plus there were weather issues that slowed me down from hitting goal), I felt really good the whole race... well as good as you can when you are running a HM in T+D of 145-150 with full sun. I maxxed out at 10.5 miles in training for a single run. The difference was that he had me running 4x a week, vs my 3 previously, and previously my Galloway plans (and my other plans that were really just modified Galloway ones) called for 2x 30 minutes during the week then the long run on the weekend. Well, he had me run more than 30 minutes the 3 weekdays, and one of them was always what I would consider a longish run... the day before my long run. So my Fri/Sat near the end of the plan was like 5/8 one week, then 6/10.5 two weeks later. I never dreamed of running a single step the day before my long run before... I was trying to conserve as much energy as I could for my long run. :) It was really scary for me to run back to back days like that after previously never ever running 2 days in a row, I was worried I would get injured or just be too tired to do my long run... but I think that was really the key difference. Sure, I did not get to 13 or 15 or whatever like the more advanced Galloway plans (like I think one of the rD ones went up to like 17 miles for the HM plan) in a single run, but I did run 13 and 16.5 within a 24 hour period.
 
Since the pizza topic continues (and why shouldn't it? Pizza is amazing!) What is everyone's favorite pizza (or "flatbread") at WDW?

The flatbread at Cali Grill is my favorite! The menu changes seasonally, but my recent favorites have been: bahn mi flatbread, philly cheesesteak flatbread, poached pear and the mushroom & burrata flatbread that's on the current menu!
 
Phew! Finally caught up during vacation down time.

BBQ - dry rubs only and I’m a huge fan of brisket. It has to be the fatty/moist part of the brisket though. None of that “lean” crap for me. Ribs and pulled pork are ok and I’ll eat it every now and then. We bought a smoker and honestly have made better bbq than anything around here.

Grocery stores - I shop at Publix and Whole Foods and supplement the rest from Amazon.

Pizza - This along with Chinese food is something that FL can’t get right. A brick oven pizza place (non-chain) opened near our house which is probably the best in town, but quality isn't always consistent.

Saw this squirrel eating pepperoni pizza while running in Washington DC last weekend.

FC305216-503F-4C04-8FCB-7BF842173BF1.jpeg
 
Popping in here with a question. Haven't been diligent in cking this thread in quite some time-sry. My bad.

So...My Q is are there any vegetarians (or mostly vegetarians-I DO eat fish) that have run and trained for marathon distance? I set up my training in my calendar and got to worrying about my nutrition.

Also the pizza question: 1/2 Quattro Formaggi and 1/2 plain pizza at Via Napoli

I'm obvi not a big BBQ person LOL
 
Popping in here with a question. Haven't been diligent in cking this thread in quite some time-sry. My bad.

So...My Q is are there any vegetarians (or mostly vegetarians-I DO eat fish) that have run and trained for marathon distance? I set up my training in my calendar and got to worrying about my nutrition.

Also the pizza question: 1/2 Quattro Formaggi and 1/2 plain pizza at Via Napoli

I'm obvi not a big BBQ person LOL
I've been vegetarian for almost 30 years and a runner for 5 years. I will begin training for my first marathon in September. I have completed 16 half marathons. One of the things I've discovered is that I need to eat a lunch high in protein (I usually go for eggs) on the days I run over 3 miles after work, or, I run out of energy mid run.

I'm curious to hear if any vegetarian marathoners have other tips!
 
Popping in here with a question. Haven't been diligent in cking this thread in quite some time-sry. My bad.

So...My Q is are there any vegetarians (or mostly vegetarians-I DO eat fish) that have run and trained for marathon distance? I set up my training in my calendar and got to worrying about my nutrition.

Also the pizza question: 1/2 Quattro Formaggi and 1/2 plain pizza at Via Napoli

I'm obvi not a big BBQ person LOL
I'm Vegetarian! I do take a multivitamin to make sure I get enough iron, B12, etc. I know if I'm lacking iron I will get lightheaded & lack energy (kind of what would happen in High School but I'm so much wiser 24+ years later).

I do drink milk & eat eggs so lacto-ovo (I tried vegan and it didn't go so well healthwise). I make sure I'm getting protein in my lunch which I eat soon after running, this could be in eggs, beans, or the Gardein & Morningstar Soy products or other non-meat proteins. Peanut butter or nuts are good too, but I don't eat too many as they can upset my stomach. PB & J is a good go to if I have to eat lunch or dinner on the road for work. I have chocolate milk also at lunch daily.

I also make sure my dinner has a different protein than lunch, like only one of those soy processed products a day & the other meal needs to be from something else. Otherwise lots of veggies (spinach almost daily for the iron and other benefits) and fruit just like everyone should. A favorite meal is pasta with some sort of beans to make a complete protein. Oh and breakfast is usually oatmeal or cream of wheat made with milk. Cereal (not sugary ones, but the good for you ones) is my snack, like I need an afternoon snack when marathon training or I'll never make it to dinner :) If I went vegan I would have to find an alternate milk as I find if I don't get milk I get off feeling too.

I eat.. a... lot... so if you have questions just let me know or maybe that was already too much :)
 












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