The Running Thread - 2016

[roxymama]

I think I glide the whole way until I see a finish line clock that has a number I like on it and then I morphe into some kind of super-gazelle. So my gazelling is generally about 1% of my race. So don't ever base anything from what you see of my finish line photos
Although I was pretty glidey on my last race because I didn't have much "gazelle" left in the tank.

My 4 year old daughter is pure gazelle though.

 

[JulieODC]

QOTD: Depends on the type of trip and where -- we often head to the lake in NH, and I love running on the rails-to-trail up there, and around the area -- so I keep right on running as usual. I also think that getting out for a run is a fun way to explore a new place -- I am heading to the UK for work in January, and will be in the thick of training, so am already anticipating a run around Bristol (anyone been??). However, if I am on a WDW trip, I count the daily walking as exercise enough, and if headed for a relaxing vacation, I'd probably use it as an excuse to rest and recharge.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

All that said, there are some debates about whether one is better than the other. There is a very good video on YouTube showing the two styles. Search for "Ironman Run Technique - Gliders vs Gazelles"

It depends on how fast you are trying to run. I am not sure that it is possible to run a 5 minute mile while gliding. Your cadence would have to be about 220. But if you are running more slowly, either can work for you. When I was in the Army, I was taught to run as a Gazelle. I was young and trying to break a 4 minute mile (closest that I ever got was 4:34 ). When I started running for pleasure, I switched to the "glider" mode (I call it a shuffle step). But I found that I started landing too far out in front with my lead foot when I got tired, which acted as a brake on my running and caused me to slow even more. This is why I moved to something in between both. I now lead with my knee while getting my rear foot up quickly on each stride, but without jumping up into the air much (very little vertical movement). It means that I need a higher cadence to avoid braking, but I run faster with the same effort.

 

[virtuoso1989]

ATTQOTD: I try to do as much of the plan even on vacation, trying to fit in the exercise with the schedule. As an example, we are going home tonight from WDW after a 3 day conference. I did Higdon's 8 miles yesterday but unfortunately could do only 16 miles today, as we had to check out at 11am. I didnt do the entire 18 miles prescribed but feel good that i was able to run at all.

Btw, the boardwalk is probably my favorite running path in WDW so far. You can get almost 2 miles around and to and from the DHS path.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I think I understand about 1% of what you just said, but even that 1% I'm really not sure about

I made this change after reading a book (the Cool Impossible, I believe) where the author described the motion as feeling like you were striding over the top of a log on each step, requiring you to lift your knee to keep from tripping on the log. Obviously an exaggerated description, but it clicked for me mentally. I've noticed that trail running really helps me with this, because if I don't pick up my feet, I find myself face first in the dirt.

All that said, there are some debates about whether one is better than the other. There is a very good video on YouTube showing the two styles. Search for "Ironman Run Technique - Gliders vs Gazelles"

It depends on how fast you are trying to run. I am not sure that it is possible to run a 5 minute mile while gliding. Your cadence would have to be about 220. But if you are running more slowly, either can work for you. When I was in the Army, I was taught to run as a Gazelle. I was young and trying to break a 4 minute mile (closest that I ever got was 4:34 ). When I started running for pleasure, I switched to the "glider" mode (I call it a shuffle step). But I found that I started landing too far out in front with my lead foot when I got tired, which acted as a brake on my running and caused me to slow even more. This is why I moved to something in between both. I now lead with my knee while getting my rear foot up quickly on each stride, but without jumping up into the air much (very little vertical movement). It means that I need a higher cadence to avoid braking, but I run faster with the same effort.

@JeffW and @BuckeyeBama thanks for sharing. This helps solidify it in my mind.

-Glider can be more efficient at slower paces.
-Glider likely has a lower injury risk because the potential for force to ground is less.
-Gazelle has the opportunity to be faster.
-A 2:50 marathon is possible using Glider or Gazelle (from an example of one person).

However, at some point one must switch to Gazelle to get even faster. That level may not be a set min/mile for everyone, like say "all runners must switch to a Gazelle at a 6:30 min/mile" (maybe not true). But something like, "all runners must switch to Gazelle to run 85% of maximum running". For some runners, 85% maximum running is 5k pace. For other runners, 85% maximum running is marathon pace. So that's why some people would glide at a marathon, whereas others would Gazelle, and yet they could be running the same pace, but different relative fitness levels. It's a thought.

Here's an interesting article.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

I would be happy to 'step-up' to the Glider ranks, let alone Gazelle.

My gait seems to be more like 'Millipede'!

 

[croach]

@JeffW and @BuckeyeBama thanks for sharing. This helps solidify it in my mind.

-Glider can be more efficient at slower paces.
-Glider likely has a lower injury risk because the potential for force to ground is less.
-Gazelle has the opportunity to be faster.
-A 2:50 marathon is possible using Glider or Gazelle (from an example of one person).

However, at some point one must switch to Gazelle to get even faster. That level may not be a set min/mile for everyone, like say "all runners must switch to a Gazelle at a 6:30 min/mile" (maybe not true). But something like, "all runners must switch to Gazelle to run 85% of maximum running". For some runners, 85% maximum running is 5k pace. For other runners, 85% maximum running is marathon pace. So that's why some people would glide at a marathon, whereas others would Gazelle, and yet they could be running the same pace, but different relative fitness levels. It's a thought.

Here's an interesting article.

I think what you are saying about the race type is important. Was discussing all this with my PT this afternoon and he was saying that your form will likely change some for a 5k to a marathon to a trail run. For a 5k you are more likely going all out and not as concerned with conserving energy. This opposed to a marathon where you may want to conserve your energy and go to more of the "shuffle".

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

QOTD: Doing something active in the morning always sets me up for a good day, whether I'm at home or vacation. I won't stick to my running schedule though. If I'm at home visiting family, I'm happy if I get a 5 mile walk with my in-laws instead of a run. I try to go with the flow while also getting my heart rate up in way or another At WDW, I do not run at all. We are rope drop to close type people, and I'm not willing to wake up earlier than that on vacation!

 

[roxymama]

I would be happy to 'step-up' to the Glider ranks, let alone Gazelle.

My gait seems to be more like 'Millipede'!

Don't knock the millipede....if we all had 1000 legs imagine how fast we could shuffle...
*waits patiently for @DopeyBadger to do the math*

 

[cavepig]

ATTQOTD - no running plans on vacations, heck I don't follow a set plan at home.

As for form and pictures, it can be very deceiving. I know many runners that shuffle that are fast, they have a fast turnover, their feet never come up high. Others, look like they have great strides but really may be bouncing up and down too much and wasting energy. So, my take on photos is be careful changing form on a still photo.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I think what you are saying about the race type is important. Was discussing all this with my PT this afternoon and he was saying that your form will likely change some for a 5k to a marathon to a trail run. For a 5k you are more likely going all out and not as concerned with conserving energy. This opposed to a marathon where you may want to conserve your energy and go to more of the "shuffle".

Agreed!

Don't knock the millipede....if we all had 1000 legs imagine how fast we could shuffle...
*waits patiently for @DopeyBadger to do the math*

Looks pretty quick to me!

 

[LSUlakes]

Great QOTD everyone. I am going to answer last weeks questions here.

QOTD: Flash Forward. Today is November 14th, 2017. When you look back on the last year of your running career, what do you want to say about it? Limit of 5 words or less.

ATTQOTD (11/14) - "I am still improving."

Today's QOTD - lets go streaking! Have you ever been or are you a streaker? Running at least a mile a day for a month, 100 days with the Penguin, or even a year or more counts. Going past the cabin of the opposite sex at camp in your youth does not.

ATTQOTD (11/15) On facebook I am in a group called the 100 mile a month group. A goal of mine is to make it 12 plus month, which on paper sounds easy, but life has been happening a lot lately. I'm kinda dreading my run today, not because I hate running but because I drove for 10 hours and got home at 10 last night, and have work today. Also still have this stupid cold for over 2 weeks now.

QOTD: Today, let's discuss good running form. What do you think about while running in order to maintain good running form?

ATTQOTD (11/16) I do not put enough thought into this. One thing I do concentrate on during easy runs is the motion of my arms. I have a bad habit of them swinging across my chest, which adds a lot of unnecessary motion to my runs. I am getting a little better at it.

QOTD: Who is your personal running hero? By this I don't mean Meb or Pre or even Forrest Gump...I mean who is the person in your life that inspires you and makes you want to get out running yourself. This could be the person who first introduced you to running or someone you met along the way of your running journey...it's your hero so you can make up the rules

ATTQOTD (11/17) No one I know really got me running I guess. To be honest, I started running because I failed. Let me explain that last statement. As a freshman in high school I failed to make the basketball team. This was a devastating blow, not so much for me, but for my family. My two older sisters were both offered scholarships to play basketball in college (only one did) and my dad played on the LSU freshman team at the time Pete Maravich (Pistol Pete) was a senior. So, I couldn't just not do anything, so I friend recruited me to the CC team and the coach let me on even though I had missed all of the summer season. (More on that on rteetz QOTD). After high school I stopped running until a couple of years ago I realized a failed again. I was very unhealthy and wanted to change my life. I put the fork down and put the shoes on the pavement. So my biggest hero of running is running itself. It is always there to pick me up (health and attitude) and helps make me a better person.

QOTD: “WOULD YOU RATHER”: DIS-RUNNER EDITION! Answer A or B (reasoning welcome)

ATTQOTD: (11/18) Answers in RED

Race in thick jeans OR An itchy wool sweater

Free entries+flights to races for a year OR Free shoes for a year (you can stockpile!)

Harassed by bees OR Chased by an angry Chihuahua

Race through WDW with no characters OR Race at home with Disney characters

GPS runs out of batteries pre-race OR Drop your headphones in the porta-potty - I don't listen to music while I run, so this one is easy.

Bonus Dole Whip Aid Stations OR Bonus Mickey Waffle Aid Stations I am ashamed to say this, but I don't like either of those items...

“We’ve run out of free food” OR “We’ve run out of free beer”

Uphill course with perfect weather OR Downhill course and 100+F heat

Last place in the Olympics vs First place at every small local race this year

Straight out and back marathon with no scenery OR 26+ one mile laps

Only Winter training for a Spring race OR Summer training for a Fall race

Blink in every picture but your form looks perfect OR Face looks great but form is schlumpy mess

Handed only money at every aid station OR get charged for water&fuel at every aid station

WDW triathlon 2018 or WDW marathon team relay 2018

Wear a red sparkle skirt OR A pink sparkle visor

QOTD: I don't think we have answered this one here before but what was your first race? What was the distance? Where was it? Anything else special about it?

ATTQOTD (11/19) - As mentioned in a earlier QOTD in this post I started running my freshman year in high school (First running life). Well I missed most of the training because I hadn't planned on running CC, but here I was with the first meet in 2 weeks and the most I have ever run was probably a mile for PE. Well, the good news is I finished and was not last. The bad news but also inspiring part that kinda got me hooked was since I was so slow nearly the whole team came and found me on the course with about a mile to go and ran/walk with me to the finish. I don't recall the exact time but it was 40+ min for a 5k which in high school was not ideal. lol But thanks to my teammates I kept with it through high school and things got much better.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Excited to see so many "gliders" out here, thought I was the only one. My husband taped me during my last half and I was completely shocked how crazy my gait looked. I used to have a more traditional gait, but naturally switched when I felt it doing a number on my knees. Even now, when I've tried to slow my cadence with increased back kick, the amount that my knees have to absorb on landing is just too much for me. My cadence gets up to 210s for my speed runs and halfs (and I'm nowhere close to 6:30) so I do feel like I'm giving up efficiency to save my knees.

May have to try to "stride over a log" thing. Since my feet barely lift from the ground, I'm constantly tripping over twigs and uneven pavement. Maybe my pace can improve 1 min/mile, that would be redonculous!

 

[roxymama]

@LSUlakes I'm getting over the "cold that won't end" right now too. I have nothing to offer other than solidarity.

 

[LSUlakes]

A few non running related questions:
1. Any good WDW or Walt Disney book recommendations?
2. What makes a annual pass worth it? Benefits? Discussions have taken place on the 10 hours in the car Sunday... Looking for talking points on this.
3. FSU fans, what is the local media saying about Jimbo to LSU talk?

TIA!

 

[keahgirl8]

Good morning folks! I am trying to catch up from last week and update the OP and respond to at least the QOTD at some point today. The trip was amazing and I hope to make a trip report in the coming days. I brought home some cinnamon rolls from Gaston's Tavern, so I am about to eat one of those while I continue to catch up. A lot of good QOTD's folks! Thanks for keeping things going!!! Got home at 10 PM last night, so I am struggling after a long drive, but it was all worth it.

QOTD: Vacation and running, are you able to stick to your plan during a trip?

ATTQOTD: I failed big time! I did average at least 9 miles a day of walking at the parks, but only ran once... My feet never hurt so much before! So with all the time on my feet and the many many many bad eating choices, and only a few hours of sleep, running got put on the shelf. I think I would have better luck at other destinations.


Side note: Saturday was the busiest I have ever seen the parks. God bless who ever is there for this week or any holiday week, I would need medication with that many folks there.

On non-Disney vacations, I do okay, especially if I have a hotel with a treadmill. On Disney vacations, I have done short runs before, but I do so much walking, it's usually too much for me to keep up with much running.

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

If it works for you, and you feel good, that's great! I'm a glider/shuffler, and I'd still say I'm a "real runner." Galloway method keeps your feet pretty low to the ground, and it is indeed possible to be fast using that method. Jeff Galloway himself has qualified for, and completed, Boston with this method.

I am definitely a Glider. I glide so much that I might be called a Shuffler.

Same here! It works for me!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

A few non running related questions:
1. Any good WDW or Walt Disney book recommendations?
2. What makes a annual pass worth it? Benefits? Discussions have taken place on the 10 hours in the car Sunday... Looking for talking points on this.
3. FSU fans, what is the local media saying about Jimbo to LSU talk?

TIA!

1 - Realityland
2 - As much as we love WDW, for us it is all about the math. We go to WDW many times/year.
3 - Not an FSU fan, but I hope that this hurts their performance against the Gators this week.

 

[croach]

A few non running related questions:
1. Any good WDW or Walt Disney book recommendations?
2. What makes a annual pass worth it? Benefits? Discussions have taken place on the 10 hours in the car Sunday... Looking for talking points on this.
3. FSU fans, what is the local media saying about Jimbo to LSU talk?

TIA!

1 - the Neal Gabler biography of Walt, Disney War, any of the Vault of Walt books by Jim Korkis, I could go on.
2 - can't add much on the AP except it's an excuse to go to Disney
3 - go Hokies!

 

[Ariel484]

A few non running related questions:
2. What makes a annual pass worth it? Benefits? Discussions have taken place on the 10 hours in the car Sunday... Looking for talking points on this.

I only get an AP if I know I'm going to take enough trips to make it worth it, purely from a ticket cost point of view. The benefits, I think, can change at any time so I don't bank on them always being there.

Having said that, I did just get an AP a couple of weeks ago and it's been nice getting 20% off merch*, some discounts on dining* and "free" Memory Maker (which includes WDW race photos).

*these are limited-time offerings - example of benefits changing.

 

[keahgirl8]

1 - the Neal Gabler biography of Walt, Disney War, any of the Vault of Walt books by Jim Korkis, I could go on.
2 - can't add much on the AP except it's an excuse to go to Disney
3 - go Hokies!

Good to know! I've always wondered if that Walt biography was a good one.