The Running Thread - 2016

[ZellyB]

I don't usually worry about sticking with a plan on vacation. Some vacations are easier than others to plan some runs, but generally I just don't worry much about it.

 

[Barca33Runner]

QOTD: Vacation and running, are you able to stick to your plan during a trip?

If I run at all during a vacation I consider it a win. Most of the time I stick to what I want to do, but I'm not setting a high bar for myself on that front. I'm more active on vacation than I am in my day-to-day life, so I think that balances some things out as well.

 

[Dis5150]

ATTQOTD: All my vacations lately have been at WDW and we did not really get our runs in. We ran on the treadmill a couple of times in September but it was so stinking humid outside we only did that once. In Feb. before Princess we did run 3-4 times because we were there the week before the race and wanted to keep up with our training plan. The only other place I ever vacation is to visit DD26 and now that she is in NC instead of CO I may run with her more. The altitude in CO is killer when you are used to sea level and she would always just leave me in the dust.

 

[Ariel484]

Do you run on the gym treadmill or around the tracks on the ship? I've always wondered if it feels different being on a boat doing either of those.

Gym treadmill. I tried running around the ship once and found it to be sooooo boring. And I kept losing count of what lap I was on.

The treadmill is weird though because you're running perpendicular to the way the ship moves, if that makes sense. It's disorienting!

 

[Baloo in MI]

ATTQOTD: I try to stick to my training plan. But much of my travel is either work (and I love running in new areas/cities), camping (so lots of trails to run), Disney (I am either at a runDisney event and running or getting out to explore the resorts/mapping together a run), or we are at our timeshare in Mexico (all inclusive, if I don't stick with my plan I gain 10 pounds in weeks vacation!). I do tend to push long runs to before or after the trip though.

 

[croach]

ATTQOTD: honestly most of my vacations are for destination races so running is guaranteed to be involved. But on the occasional non running trips I usually try to get some running in. It can be a good way to get out and explore wherever you are while getting in some exercise.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

 

[croach]

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

I'm not an expert on running science but I would just say make sure this isn't causing you to overstride. If you keep your data in some sort of running app, check your cadence to see if it is has dropped.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: Vacation and running, are you able to stick to your plan during a trip?

I have a very hard time keeping to a running schedule on a trip, so I will usually alter my training schedule to get my runs in before/after.

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: I usually have good intentions on vacation, but most of the time I don't run much on vacation. I have gotten better at this though in the past 6 months and planning for next year I'm thinking I will have to be more diligent if I want to meet my goals.

@LSUlakes welcome back! I have a couple of races to add to complete my 12 months of races:

November 24 - michigandergirl - East Grand Rapids Gobble Wobble 4.3 miles - NG
December 31 - michigandergirl - Wolverine Resolution Run 4 Miles - NG

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

I made the same change a number of years ago with the same impact - about 1 min/mile faster at the same heart rate. I just bring my back leg up parallel to the ground. To do this without slowing your cadence or over-striding you have to kick off a tiny bit, but it doesn't feel like you are kicking off. All elite runners run this way.

The other change that I made which also gave me an immediate increase in pace without extra effort was going from a heel striker to a mid-foot striker. This allowed me to kick even more on each stride without extra effort. Got faster at the same heart rate.

But here is my cautionary tale: I then tried to go to a forefoot strike and totally messed up everything. I started getting plantar fasciitis and Achilles tendonitis injuries, eventually breaking bones in my left foot. Even after a few years of running this way, my body failed to adapt. Me feet simply are not constructed in a way that will allow it for me.

So, try changing things up, just be careful as you do so. What works for one person might not for you (or me).

 

[BuckeyeBama]

ATTQOTD - I try to run every day, including on vacation. I might shorten my runs based on the things happening, but I still get out there - especially at WDW. I love my morning runs at WDW.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

I'll start by saying running form is definitely something I need to continue to improve upon. So my ideas and articles are me also trying to maximize this area of my running repertoire. I found a few articles that may be of interest:

How to Improve Your Speed: Step Frequency and Step Length
What Does Good Running Form Feel Like?
Can Form Drills Help You Become a More Efficient and Injury-Resistant Runner

I believe your improvement can be a good one, as long as it doesn't coincide with your foot falling outside your center of gravity (the form drills will help confirm the correct feeling). I'd bet (and I haven't seen anything to confirm this and this is me spitballing) that how much your leg kicks back is a function of your speed relative to your vVO2max. The faster you run relative to your current fitness level, the more back kick you'll naturally develop into. The necessity of the back kick comes from the power you are generating into the ground with each step. The reason you may see two people both at 9:00 min/mile one with back kick and one without, may be related to the relative % of vV02max that they are running at. It would also explain why you see elites with massive back kick from the 3k to the marathon. Because no matter the distance, their % vVO2max is very high. Whereas, most of us don't reach the level of % vV02max to justify the necessity (or naturalness of the major back kick).

If it's something you wish to pursue, then my advice would be the same for anyone looking to make changes in their stride. Do it slowly and progressively over the course of months. Incorporate a little change in a single run for a brief time period. Then for a whole run. Then a few runs per week. Then all of your runs. If you make a dramatic change in your stride you may start using muscles/bones differently and they may not be prepared to handle the rigor of the new workload.

I'm not an expert on running science but I would just say make sure this isn't causing you to overstride. If you keep your data in some sort of running app, check your cadence to see if it is has dropped.

Agreed. This would be the first thing I would be concerned about. And it may not be something that shows up immediately from a single run that improves, but from over time and consistent training with an overstride.

 

[cburnett11]

ATTQOTD: If I'm training for a specific race, I'll do all my workouts as "prescribed" even while on vacation... but it's never been at Disney. However if I'm in between any race-specific training, my running will be spotty at best. Now I've never gone to Disney while training for anything, so not really sure how I'd work in any real running while there. We tend to go wire-to-wire when we are at WDW.

 

[PrincessV]

QOTD: I don't think we have answered this one here before but what was your first race? What was the distance? Where was it? Anything else special about it?

ATTQOTD: My first was the PHM Royal Family 5K in 2012, "run" with my son. It was a lot of fun and totally started my relationship with rD!

1. How do you help yourself overcome the mental hurdles when you feel like you're tired and the goal race seems like it'll be unbearably long?

2. How do you deal with having to do a runDisney race weekend solo? I'm hoping to meet up with some various running group people, and one of my friends might be able to come cheer me on for the marathon, but otherwise I think I'll be going solo for the weekend, which is making me feel like it won't be a very fun trip. The accomplishment of finishing the Goofy Challenge just seems less exciting without someone there to share it with me.

1. First, if I'm really physically tired, I listen to my body and give it extra rest. The mental part for me is about running the mile I'm in - and if that miles happens to suck, knowing that a new mile is coming up. Running out and backs and knowing that I have to finish in order to get home helps, too!

2. I'm a solo runner to start, so I'm probably not a good resource here. I have a bunch of running friends who will be there, too, and plenty of opportunities to socialize, but I need to make sure I get plenty of alone time. I will say, though, that there will be thousands of fellow runners there to celebrate with - you need not be alone if you don't want to be!

QOTD: Vacation and running, are you able to stick to your plan during a trip?

ATTQOTD: I try not to schedule trips during critical runs so I have the luxury of skipping them as needed. My teen son doesn't like to wake up until noon on vacation, which can make it easy for me to work in a morning run... but if we stay out late the night before, forget it. Sleep/rest/relaxation comes first on my vacation!

 

[Burgundy Rose]

ATTQOTD: It hasn't happened to me yet but if I were suddenly whisked away on holiday tomorrow, I think my running would depend on the type of holiday. Like @roxymama, if I'm going on an active holiday (lots of sport or even a theme park) then I'm not going to run on top of it all or I'll be too exhausted. If I'm going on a relaxing holiday (my family lives near the beach and when I go see them, I do nothing but read on the beach and eat my weight in ice cream) then I'll run, if only because I like to explore and move about (I enjoy walking too).

I had an awesome run today. I checked online to see when the sunset was supposed to happen and I went out ten minutes before. Was treated to the most beautiful scenery ever. I snapped a few pics and just took it all in. It was truly gorgeous to run around the Disney lake with the sun setting behind it. Despite my stopping a few times for photos, I PRed - that's how motivated I was by the colours of the sky!

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

I'll start by saying running form is definitely something I need to continue to improve upon. So my ideas and articles are me also trying to maximize this area of my running repertoire. I found a few articles that may be of interest:

How to Improve Your Speed: Step Frequency and Step Length
What Does Good Running Form Feel Like?
Can Form Drills Help You Become a More Efficient and Injury-Resistant Runner

I believe your improvement can be a good one, as long as it doesn't coincide with your foot falling outside your center of gravity (the form drills will help confirm the correct feeling). I'd bet (and I haven't seen anything to confirm this and this is me spitballing) that how much your leg kicks back is a function of your speed relative to your vVO2max. The faster you run relative to your current fitness level, the more back kick you'll naturally develop into. The necessity of the back kick comes from the power you are generating into the ground with each step. The reason you may see two people both at 9:00 min/mile one with back kick and one without, may be related to the relative % of vV02max that they are running at. It would also explain why you see elites with massive back kick from the 3k to the marathon. Because no matter the distance, their % vVO2max is very high. Whereas, most of us don't reach the level of % vV02max to justify the necessity (or naturalness of the major back kick).

If it's something you wish to pursue, then my advice would be the same for anyone looking to make changes in their stride. Do it slowly and progressively over the course of months. Incorporate a little change in a single run for a brief time period. Then for a whole run. Then a few runs per week. Then all of your runs. If you make a dramatic change in your stride you may start using muscles/bones differently and they may not be prepared to handle the rigor of the new workload.



Agreed. This would be the first thing I would be concerned about. And it may not be something that shows up immediately from a single run that improves, but from over time and consistent training with an overstride.

I think I understand about 1% of what you just said, but even that 1% I'm really not sure about

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

Thanks for the feedback, @croach , @BuckeyeBama, and @DopeyBadger,

I will watch the over-striding and make sure to make the change slowly. I've never been big on running drills, but need to start incorporating them into my routine.

...was going from a heel striker to a mid-foot striker...

I'm in the process of making that change too. It was not a conscious effort but seems to be a by-product of hill training with a weighted backpack in preparation for a hilly 5k with great swag (Bobble-head fireman!)

Note: While running hills with the backpack is a great confidence and conditioning builder, I am not recommending it.

BTW, it worked and I now have a 1st place AG bobble-head fireman!

 

[JeffW]

I made this change after reading a book (the Cool Impossible, I believe) where the author described the motion as feeling like you were striding over the top of a log on each step, requiring you to lift your knee to keep from tripping on the log. Obviously an exaggerated description, but it clicked for me mentally. I've noticed that trail running really helps me with this, because if I don't pick up my feet, I find myself face first in the dirt.

All that said, there are some debates about whether one is better than the other. There is a very good video on YouTube showing the two styles. Search for "Ironman Run Technique - Gliders vs Gazelles"

I made a discovery with which led to a giant improvement.

Background: I've done 3 Goofys, 10 marathons, 1 52 mile ultra, and too many 5 and 10ks to count. I been running on and off for 30 years and consistently for 15 years. My real point here is I'm not a rookie; I've been doing this for a while.

What led me to the discovery: It started with the form QOTD. My answer was that I don't keep my arms up high enough (which is what you do when you walk). Then @CheapRunnerMike posted a picture of himself finishing the 2015 marathon. I noticed his 'rear' foot is up so high, it's hidden behind his knee. By comparison, in almost all my race photos, my feet are never more than a few inches off the ground. It seems like in most, they are both on the ground. Not sure how this is even possible!

The discovery: After looking at more of my race photos and comparing them with 'real' runners and doing a little bit of googling, I have come to the conclusion that what I call running is really just fast walking. In walking, you basically lift 1 leg forward and 'pole-vault' over your planted leg. In running, you're storing energy in your planted leg and 'pogo-sticking' off of it.

The improvement: I made an effort to get my feet off the ground. Lifting my knee a little higher in the front, and trying to make more of a 'butt-kick' motion in the back. With just those simple changes, I am about a minute per mile faster at the same effort! Checking my log, the last 3 Mondays I've done 7 miles at 9:40, 10:20, and 10:26 per mile. Today i did 8:57!

Has anyone else made a small change that led to big improvements? For those of you more into the science of running, is my analysis correct? Is this a know problem?

 

[Miranda]

All that said, there are some debates about whether one is better than the other. There is a very good video on YouTube showing the two styles. Search for "Ironman Run Technique - Gliders vs Gazelles"

I am definitely a Glider. I glide so much that I might be called a Shuffler.