The Running Thread - 2016

[Kathymford]

QOTD: Today we will discuss shoes. Do you have a pair of trainers and a racing shoe? Do you train with your racing shoes, if so what type of workouts do you do? Do you have a pair of shoes you only use for short distance races versus longer races or training runs? If you have a pair of racing flats, what kind and what do you think about them?

I have a hard time with shoes. It starts with the fact that I have bunions ... or, bunion. I've had surgery on one foot, but not the other. So I need wide width. But as I'm sure you all know, not all wide width is the same. Because of the bunions I over-pronate, so I've always been told I need a stability shoe. I did the treadmill test (barefoot) and that seemed to confirm it. That was when I first started running. So I returned a pair that wasn't working for me anymore and they brought out every pair of wide width stability shoe they had in the store. ONE was wide enough. NB 1260v5. It even lets me wear thicker socks. It's amazing. I even bought a second pair in a different color so I could rotate. The second pair don't seem to fit quite the same, but they are still good. Or so I thought.

As I'm getting over my injury, whenever I wear these shoes, my injured adductor hurts MORE. Like going from not hurting at all, to hurting. That doesn't seem quite right, but they are the only shoes I have to run in right now. I'm starting to think I don't need the stability shoe after all.

It's always like this for me. A shoe seems great and I love them, until I get about 100-150 miles on them and then all of a sudden. NOPE. I've been wanting to try Altras, so that might be my next move. Also, I know I lot of people swear by the Hokas but those are some pretty giant looking shoes ...

 

[Kathymford]

ATTQOTD: Like @PrincessV my shoe search history is long and complicated. But to answer the original question, I only have one model of shoe that I do all my running in, races and training. I do currently have 2 pairs of that model (Altra Olympus) in rotation depending on what color I feel like wearing. I have one unboxed pair to add to the lineup at some point. I bought 4 pairs of them on super sale about a year ago.

I don't believe that I would really see any benefit to having different types of shoes for races/speed work vs other runs... I feel like that's the kind of thing people much faster than me need to worry about? I don't know though.

I have been thinking of getting another different brand pair, but I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of vain and I want my shoes to look cute, and I have a women's wide foot which limits options because most manufacturers offer limited offerings in a D width. If I wanted to wear men's shoes, I'd be fine, since D is a men's regular width, but I don't. I have tried Brooks Glycerin and New Balance 1080. I feel like maybe I could give the Brooks a chance again, those were at least 5-6 year ago Glycerins. The NB 1080 were not cushioned enough, which is too bad, because NB has more width options than anyone else. I tried Asics Gel Nimbus because I wanted more cushion, but then I found them to be way too squishy for running, but I love them for walking. That's when I ended up in the Altra Olympus. I had wanted a pair of the Paradigms (the road version), but the new models were out and full price while the Olympus (technically the trail version, but I read a lot of reviews that said they were good on the road too) were due for a model update and the previous ones were on super sale. I ended up really liking the cushion on them. They have a big stack height, almost like a Hoka, but the cushion is very firm. Oh right! I also tried a pair of Hoka Bondis in between the NB and the Asics, but those never made it outside the house before being returned. They were way too narrow and I felt like I was going to twist my ankle every time I took a step between the narrowness and the stack height.

Some shoes I'm looking at possibly trying are the Saucony Triumph and Hoka Claytons. The Hokas still don't come in a D width, but I've seen some mention that they are wider than the other models, so it might work. I don't know if I'd like Hokas though if the cushioning is really soft.

I think you are my shoe spirit animal. lol

 

[IamTrike]

I was hitting 60 mpw about a month out from my marathon and this is roughly what I was doing those weeks...

Monday - 8 miles at around a 6:30 pace (Tempo-15)
Tuesday - Hansons Strength day, so 4x1.5 miles , 2x3m, 3x2m, trying to hit 6:05-6:20/mile for the intervals depending on the distance
Wednesday - 10K around a 6:30 pace (Tempo-15)
Thursday - 9 mile Tempo (6:15 pace)
Friday - 10K around a 6:30 pace (Tempo-15)
Saturday/Sunday - I would do either a Long Run (16-19 miles at long run pace around 6:40) with a 10K at T-15 the next day, or back to back 10-mile runs at T-15

This was pretty typical for most weeks, and somehow I didn't manage to get hurt. While there certainly were physical gains being made during this training block, the biggest gains were mental. This training taught me how to run fast and made me believe that I could not only BQ but get a sub-3 as well. I ran my half marathon PR about a month before this training started and it was 1:29...that's what made me decide to see how far I could push it. Breaking the 1:30 HM barrier was huge for me and made me believe. This training confirmed my belief and the race itself played out perfectly. I always smile when I think back to that day, but it was months of HARD training that let me get to that place.

Wow I got tired just reading this. It's really impressive that you were able to sustain this.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

If I have a weak point in my anatomy, it is my feet. They are very strong, but they are easily injured because of the length of the bones - where each terminates at the biggest toe knuckle. Because my feet have always been my weakness, I have spent a huge amount of time and money finding the right shoes for me. Right now, that is the Nike Pegasus model 31 (the 2014 model). And, because my feet are my weakness, I race in the same shoes that I train in.

This question reminds me - I need to order 2 more pair.

 

[dis_or_dat]

ATTQOTD: I've been running in Asics Nimbus forever. I tend to buy a lot on sale and slowly work through them since they're so expensive. I still have 1 brand new pair I bought 4 years ago. I tried a few others, but not successful yet. Mizuno Wave Rider is giving me blisters, but I'm still running in them until I feel I got my money's worth! Tried the Saucony Zealot, but I think it aggravated some of my old running injuries. But it might have been because my treadmill cranked up to 10% incline when I tried out its "hill workout". That was .... rough.

Just bought some Brook Glycerins, looking forward to trying them on. But now I remember I didn't like the Brook Ghost, so I hope I didn't make a huge mistake.

ATTQOTD (previous): My first half was last year and was 1:43:54 and 5 weeks later I was able to shave about 1:30 off.

As an aside: Ran on the track today and a friendly older gentleman kept giving me high fives and words of encouragement when we passed each other. He seems to be well known since all the high school kids said hi to him too. When I told him I was on my last speed session, he asked me to walk with him and his friend as a cool down. They regaled me with stories of their running heydays (110+ miles per week!) and running All.The.Marathons and knowing Bob Anderson and Runners World when it was just Distance Running News. Gave me lots of encouragement and advice. He said I was a really good runner and that's why he asked me to walk with them, so that made my year (since I honestly have no idea if my form is correct or how I look running). It was a really awesome experience.

 

[LSUlakes]

As an aside: Ran on the track today and a friendly older gentleman kept giving me high fives and words of encouragement when we passed each other. He seems to be well known since all the high school kids said hi to him too. When I told him I was on my last speed session, he asked me to walk with him and his friend as a cool down. They regaled me with stories of their running heydays (110+ miles per week!) and running All.The.Marathons and knowing Bob Anderson and Runners World when it was just Distance Running News. Gave me lots of encouragement and advice. He said I was a really good runner and that's why he asked me to walk with them, so that made my year (since I honestly have no idea if my form is correct or how I look running). It was a really awesome experience.

You just never know who you will run into. Thanks for sharing. At WDW this January I was walking around HS and a man stopped me because I was wearing a Boston marathon type of shirt. We spoke about running for a while, but DD was ready to go so we had to take off. About 10 minutes later it hit me I was talking to Bill Rodgers. Kinda wish I would have recalled his face earlier and took a picture with the man. Point of story, its cool meeting runners that have accomplished great things.

 

[CherieFran]

Wow, this thread really leaves you in the dust when you go on vacation! I'm not even going to attempt to catch up with all the QOTD that I missed, so I'll just pick back up with this week!

QOTD: What is the difference between your first marathon (or longest race) and your fastest? If you have only done one, then what is your goal?

My first marathon was WDW Marathon in 2013. I finished around 5:30-ish and was very happy to finish with lots of great character photos. My fastest (and only other) marathon was Marine Corps Marathon in 2014. I finished in 4:49:XX. I was disappointed because I had hoped to break 4:30 but the second half of the race was really rough for me. I'd love to run a 4:00 marathon some day, but I'm just not sure I'm willing to put in the training that is required. Right now, I'm happy sticking to, and trying to improve, in the half marathon.

QOTD: Today we will discuss shoes. Do you have a pair of trainers and a racing shoe? Do you train with your racing shoes, if so what type of workouts do you do? Do you have a pair of shoes you only use for short distance races versus longer races or training runs? If you have a pair of racing flats, what kind and what do you think about them?

I generally have a pair of long run shoes (I've been using the Asics Nimbus for several years) and a pair or two of short run shoes (These I've experimented with more. Right now I have a pair of Asics DFA and New Balance 1500v2). I run in the same shoes I train in. The New Balance claim to be a racing flat so I've been using them exclusively for speed work and plan to race my upcoming 5K in them. So far I think I like them but don't think I'd use them for longer distances.

 

[LSUlakes]

For those with a Garmin that has the race predictor, how do you feel about the times it gives you? I had a good laugh, and then said well these are actually near my goals, then laughed again, then thought well at least my watch thinks I can do it.
Below is what the watch says:
5k - 18:48
10k - 39:01
13.1 - 1:26:18
26.2 - 3:00:04

My sig below has my actual current PR's lol. It also claims my VO2max is 55. Perhaps it just doesn't have enough data yet and as I continue to get some runs in, it will adjust.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

For those with a Garmin that has the race predictor, how do you feel about the times it gives you? I had a good laugh, and then said well these are actually near my goals, then laughed again, then thought well at least my watch thinks I can do it.
Below is what the watch says:
5k - 18:48
10k - 39:01
13.1 - 1:26:18
26.2 - 3:00:04

My sig below has my actual current PR's lol. It also claims my VO2max is 55. Perhaps it just doesn't have enough data yet and as I continue to get some runs in, it will adjust.

5K - 21:16
10K - 44:06
13.1 - 1:37:42
26.2 - 3:23:16

These are pretty close to your actual PRs! It gives my VO2max as 49, but after having one of these for almost a year, I know how to game it, and could probably get myself into the 50s if I was willing to suffer for it.

BUT... speaking of suffering for it, I'm pretty sure I could hit the 5k and 10k if I truly went for it. (I've done a 10k in 49:00, and was pretty fresh at the end of it.) I don't know about that half, if I don't want to go to the hospital. And since I haven't done the big one yet, 3:23 would be a frickin' miracle.

 

[dmross]

As an aside: Ran on the track today and a friendly older gentleman kept giving me high fives and words of encouragement when we passed each other. He seems to be well known since all the high school kids said hi to him too. When I told him I was on my last speed session, he asked me to walk with him and his friend as a cool down. They regaled me with stories of their running heydays (110+ miles per week!) and running All.The.Marathons and knowing Bob Anderson and Runners World when it was just Distance Running News. Gave me lots of encouragement and advice. He said I was a really good runner and that's why he asked me to walk with them, so that made my year (since I honestly have no idea if my form is correct or how I look running). It was a really awesome experience.

That is a great story! Made me smile.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: Today we will discuss shoes. Do you have a pair of trainers and a racing shoe? Do you train with your racing shoes, if so what type of workouts do you do? Do you have a pair of shoes you only use for short distance races versus longer races or training runs? If you have a pair of racing flats, what kind and what do you think about them?

All of my shoes I train with but I only race in the ones I like the best. I currently have 2 but just bought a 3rd I'll work in. Distance doesn't really matter for my shoes.

 

[Slogger]

ATTQOD: Saucony Ride is the only shoe I've run in. I'm on my 8th or 9th pair. I usually try on other brands when it's time for new shoes, but always end up with these! The wider toe box works for me.

And now, for your laugh of the day: DH and I ran at the local high school track this morning. Apparently, Runkeeper was in a playful mood this morning. After 1 minute of running, it tells me, "Time: one minute. Distance: 0.25 miles."

Being on the track, it was pretty obvious I had not run a lap. But I had fun telling DH that, acording to Runkeeper, I can run a 4 minute mile pace!


After the first minute, Runkeeper quit joking and went back to my normal pace.

I've had the same issue with RunKeeper.......wouldn't it be amazing to run that fast?!!!!

I've been using Garmin exclusively since May and had no issues.

 

[Slogger]

ATTQOTD: I am training primarily with Brooks Glycerine 12s and Saucony Triumph ISO 2, but I have some Glycerine 13s that I haven't used yet and a pair of New Balance shoes I use for the gym and treadmill runs. I have been using the Saucony for my long weekend runs but curious to see how well they do when I start runningm18-25 miles on a weekend.

 

[DopeyBadger]

For those with a Garmin that has the race predictor, how do you feel about the times it gives you? I had a good laugh, and then said well these are actually near my goals, then laughed again, then thought well at least my watch thinks I can do it.
Below is what the watch says:
5k - 18:48
10k - 39:01
13.1 - 1:26:18
26.2 - 3:00:04

My sig below has my actual current PR's lol. It also claims my VO2max is 55. Perhaps it just doesn't have enough data yet and as I continue to get some runs in, it will adjust.

I'll give you my insight into the Garmin race predictor based on what I've learned. It's an absolute best case scenario and makes some very generous assumptions about you. It essentially assumes you have maximized every other aspect of your running performance and the only factor remaining is your VO2max. If you have not maximized your potential in the other running aspects, then you will likely not meet the Garmin race predictor. You will meet about 1% of people who meet their times.

For instance, the marathon Race Predictor is placed at somewhere between 81-85% of VO2max (based on your speed). Only the truly elite (1%) will ever run a marathon at this high of a % VO2max. Rather most of us will run it between 60-70%. That is a better predictor of future race performance. The closer you get to your BQ goal the likelier your VO2max has raised beyond 55 (thus becoming more realistic that you don't have to maximize every running aspect to meet your BQ goal).

 

[Waiting2goback]

Thanks for all the acknowledgments! This is such a supportive group.

Thank you for all of your support - you're the best! 10K is the next milestone.

My pleasure and now that you know where to find me feel free to reach out if you ever need anything.

It happens to me even in training. I want to quit between 1 and 2 miles. One of my favorite YouTubers (Jen/Pretty Neat Living) explained it really well. Your heart rate is getting higher, your breathing is becoming more labored, and your body is working hard. Your body is saying "Hey! I don't like this! We need to slow down!" She suggested (and I try to do this as well) to do a quick check of yourself. Is your heart okay? Is your breathing okay? Are your legs okay? If the answer is yes, keep pushing! It usually gets me over that hump if I can do that.



Mickey Miles is good! I have subscribed to Marathon Show, but haven't really listened yet.

Yep, every training run I start out hating. Everything hurts, it just isn't fun. Once things get warmed up and the blood is flowing I don't want to stop.

Go back and listen to the episodes with Joe when he does the Disney races. So much energy, they always improve my mood on a training run. I feel like I am running in Disney with them.

Had an interesting weekend...set out bright and early Saturday morning with the intentions of doing a 100 mile ride. Nearly 50 miles in (a a loooong way from home) my rear tire blew out. Not just a flat, but a shredded tire and a loud pop, followed by a lot of fishtailing as I brought the bike to a safe stop at the side of the road.

I tried my best to get it patched using a $5 bill, but it only lasted another 10 miles before blowing again. I was a sad triathlete as I called my wife for a rescue ride.

I didn't get too down though...I just treated it as an opportunity to brush up on my flat-changing skills and realized that after nearly 60 miles of riding my legs felt amazing. The time out there flew by and I have next weekend to give it another go. I rebounded on Sunday by hitting the trails to get my 15 mile long run in...first time running with a Camelbak and it made a world of difference out there. I had an awesome run and enjoyed every minute of it. I was a happy triathlete again!

Same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago except I was much closer. I was only about 6 miles into the ride but because of the route I take I was only 3 miles from home. Mine wasn't an obvious blowout though. I just suddenly lost air in my front tire. It was hard to keep it under control. When I tried to patch it I found 2 small holes. Kinda weird how it just happened without hitting anything. I just ran home with my bike next to me.

QOTD: What is the difference between your first marathon (or longest race) and your fastest? If you have only done one, then what is your goal?

ATTQOTD: My goal for the first one was to hopefully finish and to do so under 4 hour. I did not get to that sub 4 hour mark that day. The total time difference is around 30 minutes between my first and fastest time. I hope to have a big PR this year of somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 minutes.

My first marathon was my fastest. My goal remains to get healthy, improve my cross-training, and finally put together a good training cycle and get under 4:00 on my way to eventually qualifying for Boston eventually.

Last week there was a discussion here about the benefits of slowing down your training paces, especially for the "easy" and "long" runs. I had previously held the belief that I basically had a single running speed - I couldn't run much faster and I definitely didn't want to run much slower. But I have been finding it harder to get to the end of my long runs without feeling completely exhausted, so I thought I would try the advice of slowing it down ... and it worked! My recent long run felt so much better than previous ones, and I managed to complete my longest run to date and still felt good at the end. Yay! Thank you for the tips!

So, while this is great, I am now also wondering how to transition from this slower pace on long runs to my "race pace". Do I keep training at a slow pace and then on race day just start running faster (I'm assuming my tempo runs will help)? Or do I slowly start increasing my "slow pace" in my training runs until I am doing my long training runs at my goal race pace? I am currently prepping for my first 10k at the end of summer ... and I think I will be running that distance within the next 2-3 weeks and will still have 2-3 weeks before my first race, so I can try to use that extra time to work on increasing my pace a bit ... but once I start my half marathon training plan I don't think I will have much time left at the end of the plan to work on increasing my pace, so I assume that has to happen during the training at some point?

If you follow a training plan, where the majority of your mileage is at a slow, easy pace, and you work in some hills and speed work then when race time comes you should be able to put together a faster pace. That's the theory. It takes a few months to see any major changes in your speed but they will come.

Gone for 2 weeks and 30+ page to catch up?! Um, it may not happen, lol! Can I just jump in here and carry on?

Some random updates from my world...

In 9 days at WDW, I managed 3 very short runs. Between the heat and time on my feet, I'm pretty happy with that.

THE HEAT. It has officially reached "Infernal" at this point in west-central FL. And the cumulative effect of being in it so much at WDW made my long run when I got home extra rough. Time to do more running indoors and/or in the pool.

I'm tossing around the idea of upgrading to Dopey, but I'm not sure if that's even possible, let alone financially sane. Currently registered for the 10K and Goofy... anyone know if it's even possible to upgrade both of those registrations into one Dopey? Would that incur 2x the $45 fee? Ugh, I feel sick even thinking about the extra expense.

I know you can change still, I don't know about the $45 fee though. I thought there was only a fee if you deferred, I didn't think they charged one if you moved up your distance. Knowing Disney I am sure they do, I just hadn't heard it.

I'm feeling this way too. Work isn't helping (in fact making it worse), but I'm hoping my first run tomorrow after 3 weeks off will help a little.

So I joined a very basic gym this weekend (Planet Fitness) and actually went! My calves are still sore, but I plan on going tonight and getting some time in on the bike and maybe some core work. I don't want to be too sore to run tomorrow! It's been 3 weeks since my last run. I really hope I'm healed enough.

Work isn't helping me either. Everything, but my runs, are a struggle lately. We'll get through it though. Good job joining the gym.

The Hartford Half was my first half last fall, so I have run it once before. It was a nice course, relatively flat, great course support. Finishing under the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Arch is pretty cool too.
View attachment 181204




I'm glad you made the right shirt choice. Congrats on making your goal! I know it's kind of silly, but I after I didn't die during my second half this spring I signed up for another 3 weeks later so I could make Half Fanatics also. I still need to send in my stuff though.



Congratulations on your race!



Not a typo, I was just last minute in giving you my races. The race went well. We managed to get lucky with overcast skies and 66F at race time - in July! I finished in 28:23 which was 13 seconds faster than my last 5k, so I was pleased. My younger daughters did the kid fun runs (1/2 mile and mile), so it was a fun morning.
View attachment 181206

I will have to look at that race next year for sure. Thanks.

QOTD: Today we will discuss shoes. Do you have a pair of trainers and a racing shoe? Do you train with your racing shoes, if so what type of workouts do you do? Do you have a pair of shoes you only use for short distance races versus longer races or training runs? If you have a pair of racing flats, what kind and what do you think about them?

ATTQOTD: I currently have two pairs of shoes. My primary shoe is the Saucony Kinvara 7. I really like this shoe. Out of the shoes I have ran with, I find its decently priced and I can get a lot of mile out of it (+375 Which is a lot for me). I use this shoe for nearly all my training runs. It weighs in at 7.7oz. My other pair is Asics Gel Lyte 33 3, I use this shoe as my "race" shoe. I ran WDW marathon in them I am can say that the shoe was not meant to be on for nearly 4 hours. It weighs in at 7.1oz, which doesn't seem like much, but maybe mentally it makes a difference. I will use these shoes for some of my speed work, but my feet/legs feel beat up after running hard with them when compared to my other pair. I find I do get better runs in with them, but again this may all be mental... I have found the Asics aren't holding up very well, but still offer some support. Both pairs are over 300 miles, so they are nearing the end of being used as a running shoe. I do not have a pair of racing flats, but I am doing some research on them at this time.

This year doesn't count, I am just doing my thing waiting for my surgery. I am 2 weeks away. It's bumming me out that in 2 weeks I am done running. I hate it.

But, last year I had 2 pairs of shoes. I had the Asics Cumulus 17's, and Asics Nimbus 17's. I did my short runs, and much of my mileage, in the Cumulus. I do all my races and my long runs in the Nimbus. I always plan my mileage on the shoes so the Nimbus are broken in but still have plenty of mileage on them for the goal races. I have about 200 miles left on this year's pair, as I am clearly not doing the normal mileage I would be. I had also bought a new pair this spring when they were on sale. So, I have my shoes taken care of through the first few months of next year and I will just be hunting for more sales to stock up in the meantime.

 

[Waiting2goback]

 

[keahgirl8]

QOTD: Today we will discuss shoes. Do you have a pair of trainers and a racing shoe? Do you train with your racing shoes, if so what type of workouts do you do? Do you have a pair of shoes you only use for short distance races versus longer races or training runs? If you have a pair of racing flats, what kind and what do you think about them?

I used to wear Brooks Ravennas for every day and Adrenalines for running. I feel like after my hip injury, my walk must have changed. The Ravennas hurt my feet now, so I am all Adrenalines. Once I get into cross training where I am doing more lateral movement, I am going to look into having different shoes for that. Right now though, the running shoes work for everything. I do have a pair that I predominantly wear for races, but that is because they are the only hot pink ones left in captivity and I don't want to wear them out.

I was a dancer and a college athlete...so I think of my age like dog years. I just times my age by 7 and that's about right. Haha
Also - 35 is still young...just not young enough to stay up until 2am and run the next morning...sigh.

35 is absolutely still young! I am 35!

 

[ebradley23]

For those with a Garmin that has the race predictor, how do you feel about the times it gives you? I had a good laugh, and then said well these are actually near my goals, then laughed again, then thought well at least my watch thinks I can do it.
Below is what the watch says:
5k - 18:48
10k - 39:01
13.1 - 1:26:18
26.2 - 3:00:04

My sig below has my actual current PR's lol. It also claims my VO2max is 55. Perhaps it just doesn't have enough data yet and as I continue to get some runs in, it will adjust.

That race predictor makes me laugh. Here are my current PR/predictor time

5k: 24:19/18:48
10k: 49:22/39:01
Half: 1:53:05/1:26:18
Full: 4:06:59/3:00:04

My VO2 max is also 55. I'm thinking Boston should just take Garmin's word for it and let me in based on my race predictor.

 

[FFigawi]

My race predictor is quite close to my PRs. Spooky considering I've only been using it since January and have done no running-focused training this year.

5k: 23:40/24:xx
10k: 49:07/48:41
Half: 1:48/1:49
Full: 3:45/3:53

 

[Baloo in MI]

QOTD:

My ATTQOTD.

Marathon Times:
Slowest Time - 5:18, 2015 WDW Marathon
PR Time - 4:05, 2015 Deroit Marathon
Goal Time - 3:45, hoping to get there by Grand Rapids Marathon in October

Shoes:
I am committed to Brooks. I run in two types of neutral shoes: Ghost and Glycerin. I train and race in both type of shoe depending on the distance. Anything over the 13.1 distance and I wear Glycerins and everything under I wear Ghosts. I do keep two pair of each shoe and start rotating them once the older pair get to around 200 - 250 miles. THANK GOODNESS for semi-annual sales at my local running store. The Ghost is not to outrageous and often are on sale but the Glycerins are stupid expensive!