The renter thing...again

[ScarletFire]

Another post from the viewpoint of the renter...

That's a tremendous amount of risk and trust on the part of the renter. Granted, I know trust is involved on both sides of this transaction, but I don't think I would have been motivated to place that kind of trust in a total stranger with an incentive of <10% savings (AAA or AP savings versus the proposed figure of 75% of Disney room rates). Now, I believe the owners I am working with are all great people, and I am not worried... but I would not have even considered the rental process if the savings would be so minimal. I'm not looking for a debate with these comments... I'm just giving you the flip side from the renter's point of view. ~Ev

Renters are not afforded the luxury of maid service. I believe it is $25 per night or 8% of a studio room rack rate.

I still believe renting is an excellent option. I'm renting for the first time in October. I've already paid in full to a very accomodating DVC owner. However, I've not canceled my POFQ reservations. Disney still has my deposit. There is the risk that my rented studio may be canceled for a number of reasons. I want to be sure my family has an on-site room for our Disney vacation.

Since I rented points, I've been visiting the DVC boards. I've noticed a few DVC owners enjoy bashing renters. It seems to me that the DVC owners have the upper hand in the rental process. I'm only trying to get the best accomodations possible and stay within my budget.

 

[waltfan1957]

Just book a December studio Su-Th standard view (if there is one). Wait a couple months to get inside the DIS 6 month window for posting and you'll have your choice of folks willing to pay $13 per point (can't do that with SSR points!). This is the most efficient way to move your extra points. The beauty of BWV!

although we don't intend to ever rent our points I am curious what do you mean can't do that with SSR

 

[boatboatboat]

Renters are not afforded the luxury of maid service. I believe it is $25 per night or 8% of a studio room rack rate.

owners also pay for this service,if extar nights are requested.

although we don't intend to ever rent our points I am curious what do you mean can't do that with SSR

I think what he is saying is that with BWV being such a in demand venue that a owner can use the 11 mth window to book a stay for a renter. Obvioulsy if a renter wants to stay at a HIGH DEMAND location, and take advantage of the BWV 11 mth booking window, there will be a "cost" of more $ per point. in other words 11 mths out for a PRIME WEEK in a PRIME location an educated owner is going to ask more for the rental.

Now, if you are booking inside of 7 mths, it makes no diff. what the home resort is, so SSR pts carry the same value as other resorts pts.

The bottom line is have you ever seen anyone begging for ssr pts at the 11 mth windo because the renter just is crazy about ssr and that is where they have to stay?=no Have you ever seen anyone scrambling for a bwv room, using the 11 mth window, to get a PRIME DATE=yes.

location,location,location.....

 

[Dean]

I'm not sure what you mean by "not wanting members to rent" - I haven't seen that opinion stated; as far as I know, everything thinks that members should be able to rent.

There are members on this board who feel you should never rent, only rent to family, only rent for the amount of your yearly dues or only rent to other members.

My point is that in all the DVC marketing, there's no suggestion of making money, and as far as I can see, there is no mention of renting or transferring points ANYWHERE outside of the "legalese" fine print - in other words, they don't even tell you any possible way that you could bring in an income from the points. It simply is not sold that way, and the system is not designed that way. I would challenge anyone to find where Disney says that the members SHOULD make money off DVC. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Of course the POS is one big piece of legalese however it does not have fine print. It refers to the ability and right to rent in several places. DVC will not tell you how much to rent for nor imply you can make a profit. To do so would be in violation of the FL (and every other state I know of) timeshare laws. Renting is also referenced in the Members Benefits guidebook, the one of the website which is totally different than the Membership Guidebook last published in 2001 or so. MS has also suggested members to rent at times and the guides have touted the option for years, not that it has any legal meaning. The previously quoted legal description simply means, and I paraphrase, that DVC is not telling you that you will make a profit and has nothing to do with whether you can or not, renting or re-selling. They simply want the ability to say "it's not our fault" if you don't rent or sell as high as you think you should.

It all boils down to this - it's clear that the vast majority of people renting on the boards here are perfectly content asking $10. These are people who bought DVCs for their families and friends (in other words - most members), NOT to make a profit. It's not fair to demand that they charge more so that others can make a larger profit, and not fair to denigrate those who charge less or imply that they're uninformed. (Someone made a good garage sale analogy.) So if someone isn't happy with what the points rent for, then they should go rent them on eBay for more; they're wasting their breath trying to convince people to change. It'll change on its own over time, and you're welcome to ask whatever you want for your points.

I would agree in part. You and I don't know why most people bought but I would agree with the ASSUMPTION that most bought to use. I will also tell you that assumption is not universally true. There all are types of members who bought for all different types of reasons. And you and I don't have the right to tell them what to do, or not to do with their points unless it's in violation of state or federal law or the DVC rules as written. I will also tell you that many people's view and needs have changed over time. I have rented a number of times but much less the last several years. I have never rented points for less than $10 per point that I recall and wouldn't rent NON distressed points for that now, I feel it's too low. I won't tell others what they should rent for, it's not my place. Many have asked me for a suggestion for various situations for a price per point, I have ventured a recommendation depending on the circumstances and level of distress of the points realizing that my input was specifically solicited. But I will tell you that discouraging a higher price is only encouraging ebay rentals and other behavior that a portion of the members find distasteful.

 

[Dean]

Another post from the viewpoint of the renter...

I've read all the posts about the fair market value of the price per point in relation to the price of renting a comparable room through Disney, and I've also read the proposed figure of 75% of what Disney charges.

I totally agree there are risks to the renter and have stated on a number of occasions there needs to be a discount compared to paying cash to make it worthwhile. The other risk I don't think you mentioned, or I missed it if you did, was that most renters, including myself, make this a non refundable transaction. So if something happens on your end, you're stuck as well depending on the specifics of your situation and agreement. Available discounts will vary. At times it's hard to justify a rental for a full week or long weekend but easy to justify one on points for Sunday to Friday.

The problem from the general membership standpoint is that the best ways to get value from renting are to rent for times where there are little or no discounts and for Sunday to Friday. Both of which tend to affect the membership's ability to make reservations. This is simply the way the system is set up so everyone will have to accept it.

 

[Dean]

I have to admire your willingness to "stick to it" no matter how wrong you are. Now you are disputing Dean?

LOL, that's allowed you know.

although we don't intend to ever rent our points I am curious what do you mean can't do that with SSR

I'd guess that the meaning was that to get those type of options you had to book at 11 months out. No one is sitting there at 11 months to reserve day by day at OKW or SSR unless they are very paranoid or want a GV. Thus points at certain resorts are somewhat less valuable to rent out simply due to the home resort priority. Essentially as B3 said.

 

[boatboatboat]

just posted at the rent/trade board

HI! Need 148 pts total for BWV 5/11-5/15/06 (also consider BCV). Prefer $8-$9 if poss.
THX
Allison


who's gonna help em out..........?

 

[ScarletFire]

Renters are not afforded the luxury of maid service. I believe it is $25 per night or 8% of a studio room rack rate.

owners also pay for this service,if extar nights are requested.

Not my point. I'm referring to sacrifices the renter makes when renting as opposed to paying Disney for a room. Yes, the sacrifices are worth the savings.

If points were more than $12 per point, I personally would chose to stay at a moderate resort instead of renting a studio from BWV.

 

[boatboatboat]

If points were more than $12 per point, I personally would chose to stay at a moderate resort instead of renting a studio from BWV


how much is a night at a mod?

A BW standard room with renting pts is 132 a night Sun-Thur during june and july. Cash price during that time is I think right at 225?

 

[ScarletFire]

If points were more than $12 per point, I personally would chose to stay at a moderate resort instead of renting a studio from BWV


how much is a night at a mod?

A BW standard room with renting pts is 132 a night Sun-Thur during june and july. Cash price during that time is I think right at 225?

In October with AAA discount it is $146 per night, even on the weekend. I get control over my reservation and daily maid service. It's really less hassel to book with Disney rather than rent. Of course, I'd rather stay in a deluxe resort and renting points allows me to do this. I'm currently not willing to pay deluxe prices.

 

[boatboatboat]

In October with AAA discount it is $146 per night, even on the weekend. I get control over my reservation and daily maid service. It's really less hassel to book with Disney rather than rent. Of course, I'd rather stay in a deluxe resort and renting points allows me to do this. I'm currently not willing to pay deluxe prices.


In october at 12 dollars per point you can stay for 108 dollars at the BWV (excluding weekends) Pay DVC 25 bucks and get hosuekeeping every day, and your stay will cost you less then a mod.

Do keep in mind a week at a mod would run 146 x 7=1022, while the full 7 days at BWV would run 1044 renting pts. So even if you factor in the weekends you CAN STAY at the BWV which cash rent for $225 a night, for the same price as a mod. Cut out the weekends and you save over 25% at 12 dollars a point.


BWV vs Mod

Looks like 12 bucks is quite the deal......

 

[mikesmom]

A couple of thoughts..

The discussion assumes you CAN find a AAA or AP discount and that nobody pays rack rate. I'm afraid that's not true. The discounts at WDW are limited, you have to work hard to find them and when they're gone, they're gone. Often the would be renters that post requests are looking to rent because "there are no good discounts available".

I'm not sure I object to the $10/point, nor do many here. What gets aggravating is that a $10/point quote generates $8-$9 point offers. I suspect if we all quoted $12 point we would get more $10 point offers. Some people will always try and get a little better deal. Also, those in "distress" will usually try and low bid the market just to move their points out faster. If the market was $12, the low quotes would move up to $10 or $11. That's just market dynamics.

 

[boatboatboat]

ebay

17 dollars

mkt price has been established.

 

[ScarletFire]

In October with AAA discount it is $146 per night, even on the weekend. I get control over my reservation and daily maid service. It's really less hassel to book with Disney rather than rent. Of course, I'd rather stay in a deluxe resort and renting points allows me to do this. I'm currently not willing to pay deluxe prices.


In october at 12 dollars per point you can stay for 108 dollars at the BWV (excluding weekends) Pay DVC 25 bucks and get hosuekeeping every day, and your stay will cost you less then a mod.

Do keep in mind a week at a mod would run 146 x 7=1022, while the full 7 days at BWV would run 1044 renting pts. So even if you factor in the weekends you CAN STAY at the BWV which cash rent for $225 a night, for the same price as a mod. Cut out the weekends and you save over 25% at 12 dollars a point.


BWV vs Mod

Looks like 12 bucks is quite the deal......

$12 per point is a good deal for deluxe accomodations. I totally agree. I'm questioning any price more that $12 per point, especially on the DISboards and for me personally. You may be able to get more per point on Ebay but I'm not sure the potential bidders are quite as informed as DISboard members.

The DISboard is a small community relative to Disney attendence. I wonder what percentage of DVC members are renting points to strangers. Do you think it is really that many? I'd like to know the occupancy rate of DVC renters at any given time.

By the way, I think you're quoting standard view at BWV . . .almost impossible to get.

 

[boatboatboat]

By the way, I think you're quoting standard view at BWV . . .almost impossible to get.



not at all. Just contact a BWV owner at 11 mths and one day.

heck there are still christmas week one bedrooms open.
course at 11 mths the price should/would be higher.

Listen I don't really have a problem with the free mkt system, if folks want to bail on pts and rent em for 8 bucks, I can't stop them.

It just rubs me the wrong way when so many renters view DVC as a way to get top shelf rooms, at low ball prices.

IMO DVC owners should examine the TRUE COST of ownership and price the pts where they can atleast break even, this will STILL ALLOW the renter to save a boatboatboat load of money.

Do keep me in mind for BWV at the 11 mth window, i may be able to help you out someday.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

just posted at the rent/trade board

HI! Need 148 pts total for BWV 5/11-5/15/06 (also consider BCV). Prefer $8-$9 if poss.
THX
Allison


who's gonna help em out..........?

Anyone that chooses to -- I believe that's the point a few people are trying to make. I wouldn't fault someone for being upfront and listing a price they would like to pay. I much prefer that over someone that makes a commitment to $10+ per point and then never makes payment because they have decided they could do better. I don't see asking for a lower price any different from walking onto a car lot and not wanting to pay sticker price or making an offer on real estate for less than the listed price.

If someone does accept the offer of $8, it's really their decision to make, not yours. They could have points they are in jeopardy of losing or might even be having some financial hardships that require immediate cash. While I appreciate the fact that more and more members realize the value of their investment, I don't appreciate the fact that a few people have taken on the role of school yard bullies to get that point across.

 

[boatboatboat]

IMO some are worried the gravey train may be over.

Just IMO of course......

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

The discussion assumes you CAN find a AAA or AP discount and that nobody pays rack rate. I'm afraid that's not true. The discounts at WDW are limited, you have to work hard to find them and when they're gone, they're gone. Often the would be renters that post requests are looking to rent because "there are no good discounts available".

I had discounted rooms already. I've been to Disney 14 times and had discounted rooms of some form every time. Even when we once decided to come the night before we left (our Russian exchange student was about to go home and REALLY wanted to go, so we had an impromptu splurge), we were able to get a discounted room by calling the Ocala Disney center after we landed at the Orlando airport with literally no reservations. This was Thanksgiving week, so if we could find a discounted room then, I have to wonder when you could not find one. Now, we did luck out on the resort... we had a lovely room at CBR that time. For this upcoming trip we had reservations at the Swan with the educator's discount, for two large rooms with balconies overlooking the resort, which we cancelled after finding points to rent and reservations for a BWV studio and a BCV studio for the same time period. If the price per point was as high as what is being proposed, the studios would not have been a value and we wouldn't have changed our plans or taken the risk. For my daughter, she preferred to keep her AAA-discounted reservations at CBR rather than look for points to rent.

ScarletFire, I was able to find the BWV and BCV reservations in a day, but this is my first time to rent points. Perhaps I was just incredibly lucky... I know the owners I am working with are all very nice, so I'm certain I was lucky on that end. I chose not to keep double reservations at a resort until the last minute, because I didn't want to deprive someone else of being able to find those deals. But of course, if my anniversary comes and we're standing in the Orlando airport with no place to stay, I will definitely regret that decision. ~Ev

 

[ScarletFire]

ScarletFire, I was able to find the BWV and BCV reservations in a day, but this is my first time to rent points. Perhaps I was just incredibly lucky... I know the owners I am working with are all very nice, so I'm certain I was lucky on that end. I chose not to keep double reservations at a resort until the last minute, because I didn't want to deprive someone else of being able to find those deals. But of course, if my anniversary comes and we're standing in the Orlando airport with no place to stay, I will definitely regret that decision. ~Ev[/QUOTE]

I also found points to rent in a day at BWV. I replied to the owner's post. She was extremely kind and helpful. I've not yet made a decision on canceling my POFQ reservation. I understand about depriving someone else of being able reserve the room. It has definitely crossed my mind. I am still using part of the reservation because we are only staying at BWV Sun - Thurs.

And boatboatboat thanks for offering, I will keep you in mind. I'm still curious to see how this whole renting thing pans out.

 

[boatboatboat]

I'm still curious to see how this whole renting thing pans out.


I am cerrain it will work fine, and both you and the person who rented you the points will be happy. As i understand it I guess there is a contrat of sorts that they use sometimes for this sort of thing?

I have only rented pts out one time, the first year i owned. The person renting paid me half up front and half at the 30 day mark.

I do undertand there is a WHOLE lot of trust that the person renting places in the hands of the person who owns DVC. I don't take that for granted...
I would be curious if there has ever been a doucumented case of a owner shafting a person renting pts?

As far as keeping me in mind, THANK YOU, but truth be known, I doubt I will be renting out any pts. In fact i just bought more, and if my plans come through, I will NEED to rent about 500 for a family get togather in the summer of 07. I expect to pay 12-13 dollars, which will save me 4 diollars vs Ebay prices and still save me ALOT over a cash reservation.