The Pro-Genie App discussion thread - speculate how the app could make your trip next trip great!

[whiporee]

I agree with what your sentiments entirely, BUT we do have evidence to be upset about. Look at DAP, Shanghai etc. I understand they need to make money. But they have, its not like Disney is struggling, (ok ok the past year been a disaster I agree) but they are already back to profitability per there own recent financial releases (which honestly surprised me). I just see what it takes to already go to Disney, its alot. I see my favorite place on Earth getting Greedier and Greedier (current Christmas AH prices). Its just very disheartening to know Family and Friends who struggle to go once every 2 or 3 years. We are fortunate that we try to go every year. It just seems CRASS to be asking for more when they are probably the most expensive "family" vacation spot in the nation. I am losing the ability to justify a Disney Vacation, with all the downgrades for what it currently costs. And its also not just about COST.

There are two separate points here:

The first is whether it's cool to start and keep posting negative stuff on a positive thread.

The second is the evolution of Fast Pass. I get your point about Paris and Shanghai, but you really do have to look beyond the headlines there. Both Shanghai and Paris have virtual queue systems, so people are already alleviated from the potential hours of standby lines they have at WDW. That's fundamentally what the domestic Fast Passes do -- they give you a time to come back to wait in a smaller line. The paid systems are chances to make that wait shorter, and their paid options aren't for all rides, just for the most popular. In addition, they are different systems, so I don't that they project out to the domestic parks.

And both domestic parks are estimated to having more than double Shanghai's attendance and four times Paris's. So things they do at smaller parks are not necessarily scalable to the larger one.

I agree there is reason to think it might happen. There's just no evidence of it being discusses, or planned for, or being put in place. No one here, as far as I know, has received a survey about it. As for the AH stuff, I think they've just changed it from a very big gathering to a much smaller one that costs more. But I'm betting the revenue actually went down.

 

[Marionnette]

There's already 10 boards ripping apart the uncertainty of Genie. One or two boards tried to start a different conversation from the other 10 boards. Can't have that though Maybe we should just talk about Universal instead.

Okay. Let's talk about what Disney alluded to Genie's capabilities being. This was the teaser that was floated out there in 2019:


For the most part, it's just an itinerary planner. Lots of colorful graphics and helpful descriptions of the attractions. You can see that the Hendricks family has a HS itinerary planned for them based on their interests. Note that it includes a SD FP+. On the right is a screen showing current wait times and shortest anticipated wait times for 7DMTR. And then there are buttons to set a reminder for that time or to check FP+ availability.

Looks a lot like a more user-friendly version of MDE, right? Other than Genie pre-planning your day, is this any different than MDE? I mean, what attraction queue isn't at its shortest wait during the parade? That's probably the worst-kept secret in all of Disney World.

In November 2020, this video was put out at an IAPPA conference showing Genie's flexibility:

This tidbit revealed that you could actually fine-tune Genie's itinerary and swap out recommended attractions for something else that will fill the same time slot. The demo in the left corner of the screen is hard to read but it shows that you can select a new recommendation to replace one you aren't interested in.

ETA: Full quote of Bob Chapek during the Q&A part of the Q3 earnings call:

MyMagic+ was us basically sticking our toe in the pond of this type of transformational work. Disney Genie, though, is that program on steroids.

"This is going to revolutionize our guest experience. Guests are going to spend less time waiting and more time having fun in our parks with a dramatically improved guest experience. That’s going to make their navigation of their day and their planning of their day much easier. Essentially, what it’s going to do is take the consumer preferences that we know from our consumers, given what we know from them and blend that with basically industrial engineering data that we’ve got in terms of how our park is operating that day and meld those together to make suggestions on the fly that not only will lead to that improved guest experience, but at the same time lead to substantial commercial opportunities for us as the guest navigates their days.

So it certainly qualifies in my mind for both materiality and transformational impact on our business from a yield standpoint."

And that's all that Disney has officially released on Genie.

The bolded part of Chapek's statement is what leads people to believe that Genie will be a cash cow for Disney. It makes it sound like the Genie will pull up the next attraction on your pre-planned itinerary and offer you these possible options:

1. Go wait in the standby line (or VQ then standby) for no charge​

2. Choose a return time and purchase a Lightning Pass​

3. Purchase Lightning Pass Plus and walk right into the former FP+ queue​

It also sounds as if Genie will occasionally send alerts to some guests when the standby queue for an attraction is short along the lines of "Hey, the next Philharmagic show starts in 10 minutes and we have room for YOU!"

It was Len Testa and Jim Hill who brought Genie up again by name in a recent podcast (released prior to the earnings call) with the assertion that the customized itinerary would be a paid option while the free option would function much like MDE. Now, in all fairness, Len Testa runs TouringPlans.com. They sell subscriptions that include itinerary planning and a Lines app that is historically more accurate than Disney's posted wait times. He has a dog in this fight. He co-authors "The Unofficial Walt Disney World Planning Guide", a guidebook so thick that you can use it to give your 3-year-old nephew a boost at the dining room table. He has enough confidence in this knowledge to include it in his upcoming book. That's a huge gamble on his part if he's wrong.

He also tied Genie to a pay-per-ride line skipping function that will replace FastPass and create a VQ before you can even enter a standby line at some popular attractions. And that's where things get rather irritating. Because it would be naive to think that Disney invested in a more colorful replacement for something they already had (MDE) unless there was lots of money to be made from it. Len is reporting that he has learned from his inside source that the bean counters expect revenue from this new app's added function to potentially exceed gate revenue. That's a huge claim considering that most people walking into a park do so with a multi-day ticket @$70-$125 per day, not an annual pass or comp ticket. And you gotta wonder where that revenue stream will come from? Chances are good that it won't be just from families buying one Genie+ itinerary planning for their entire group. It's likely to include in-app purchases of some kind with the most profitable being a digital commodity such as a pass to skip a long line.

So there's the rumor about Genie that makes the discussion appropriate for a Rumors Board. There are going to be people who love the idea of a much more user-friendly app. Lord knows that MDE has a lot of shortcomings! And if all it does is plan itineraries for guests and make navigating the parks easier for newcomers, then that's fine...a bit over-hyped, but fine. If that's all it does, then it will be a big disappointment for a lot of people who expect more than MDE 2.0

 

[Illinois76]

So, to continue the discussion, why is it that you believe that Genie will enhance your guest experience? What exactly is it that you've read about Genie that will make your time in the parks better than it was prior to the pandemic shutdown?

The ability to pay for more/better/faster access to rides.

I don’t prescribe to the ‘Disney World is for everyone’ or ‘the way Walt wanted it’ opinions… if I can buy better access… I’m all in.

 

[Heather07438]

If that's all it does, then it will be a big disappointment for a lot of people who expect more than MDE 2.0

There's all this frustration about how FP was included and now it's not... we're all gonna hate it. I get that. It was DH's initial reaction. Everybody seems to just want to continue hashing out all the worst case scenarios possible while shutting out any possibility of aspects that may be enjoyable or even improve guest experience.

I don't know what to expect exactly but can see potential, that maybe a new system won't destroy our trip. Maybe for us the net positives could outweigh negatives we encountered we the old operations. It could go beyond MDE by optimizing park flow with strategic virtual queue options and with the added excitement of Genie wishes & pixie dust. How will it work in whole? What will a typical day be like for an onsite guest? Will we need to buy a stack of LPs otherwise touring the parks will be absolutely painful?

Our last trip we planned pre-Covid and the least stressful way we decided to accomplish the parks was booking 2 days per park so we had 6 FPs and at least two Tier 1 choices for each park. Logistics were often a pain, between timing ADRs and FP windows just to end up running back and forth across the parks anyway. Vividly I remember often waiting 20+ minutes with a FP for rides like PoC, JC, Soaring, Safari, etc and some as much as 45 minutes w/ FP like Character Meets. Or days planned around FPs becoming a complete mess due to rain. It wasn't always roses. Some days worked like a charm and some days were the pits. I'm willing to give a new system a chance. If it makes touring the parks less hectic without increasing my time on lines I'll be a happy camper.

 

[lovethesun12]

Passholder preview access is not an everyday thing though, it only happens occasionally when the ride first opens. It isn't like you can request exclusive AP access at any time.

We'll see what Disney does - but I'd be surprised if Disney gives out free FP's for Resort guests and gives nothing to their AP's.

If you look at Len's post on Touring Plans it sounds like there won't be any "free" FP's given - and there will be 2 paid tiers, one lower priced option just to be allowed to use the standby line when it is full and one expensive option to use the Fastpass line so you can ride right away. I hope that isn't what happens because that doesn't sound like a great experience.

I feel like maybe there's a possibly there will be free FP's, but it will be random and in the form of the "genie" granting wishes. Who knows though.

Based on what I've read so far, I think I might possibly have a similar trip to 2019 without needing to pay for a zillion upcharges and I hope that's the case. This trip is basically an experiment for me (I "have" to take it since I have so much credit from our last cancelled trip to use). I plan to use the free version and if it is terrible I'll use the extra cash I have from cancelled nights to enjoy my last trip. Hopefully Touring plans has it all figured out for me before I go

 

[Karin1984]

But given DLP's pay-per-ride nonsense (at one of the parks with the lowest attendance anyway! Are you TRYING to get fewer people to come to your already-empty parks?)

Disneyland Paris has not a pay per ride system. It is a paid fastpass. And untill now it hasnt lead to an increase in waiting time for the regular queue. Before the introduction the waiting time at headliners (in a park with limited capacity) was 30-50 minutes and it still is.

Comparing attendance with other Disney Parks is not an argument, you have to compare it in its market. Disneyland Paris has the highest attendance of European themeparks. For its market it does great. In 2019, it got 9.74 million visitors. Europapark came in second with 5.75 million. 4 million more guests.

Next to that, it is a smart business decision to not try new things with your flagships. It is custom in almost every industry to test things in smaller markets. There you can play around and see what works, what the effects are before testing it in your biggest market. That is why off-Broadway and off-off-Broadway exist.

 

[Lewisc]

Guests willing to pay may be able reduce their total number of park days while at the same time seeing the same, or more, attractions.
A solution to guests who didn't think they were spending enough money.

 

[Marionnette]

The ability to pay for more/better/faster access to rides.

I don’t prescribe to the ‘Disney World is for everyone’ or ‘the way Walt wanted it’ opinions… if I can buy better access… I’m all in.

I don't ascribe to that philosophy either but I do believe in getting value for my $. I find it a hard pill to swallow to have an upcharge for something that was once included in the price of my ticket. But I understand your willingness to pay if you believe that this will give you a better experience than you had with FP+. I'm on the other side of that fence. I don't feel it will be an improved experience. I'm expecting that it will be the same experience, just with a fee attached.

 

[Karin1984]

For those who wonder why people can get so worked up about something they do not know yet, look up the loss aversion & endowment effect theories.
Loss aversion: It is thought that the pain of losing is psychologically about twice as powerful as the pleasure of gaining. People are more willing to take risks to avoid a loss than to make a gain.
Endowment effect: This bias occurs when we overvalue something that we own. This is especially true for things that wouldn’t normally be bought or sold on the market, usually items with symbolic, experiential, or emotional significance.

 

[cakebaker]

Guests willing to pay may be able reduce their total number of park days while at the same time seeing the same, or more, attractions.
A solution to guests who didn't think they were spending enough money.

But I like lots of park days. I don't look at WDW as a laundry list of things to get through so I can be done with it. I'd live with a Universal style front of the line pass, but this business of having to deal with it ride by ride- not interested in the least. I've still got my fingers crossed they're going to offer some form of that with the lightening pass. My dream is a length of stay option, but even if it were a daily charge, we could plan a few days of ride days, a few days of doing other things in the parks. Probably not happening, but I sure hope so.

 

[glocon]

1) No
2) Features that won't cost me tons of money to use.
3) I would be open and excited if this were not hurting anyone. Guessing the OP doesn't have any travel agent friends or family who will be losing out on their commissions due to this app?

That is something I hadn’t thought about… travel agents. It’s crazy how quickly technology is taking over so many aspects of businesses. Such as getting news online instead of in a newspaper, selling a home online yourself vs using a realtor, telemedicine and now this. So much is changing with technology and people’s jobs/livelihoods are changing so quickly that it can make your head spin.
And technology is just going to keep changing how things get done slowly but surely whether we like it or not.
We are going to be using our phones or some sort of tech in the parks more and more. It’s just too bad if it ends up costing us more when doing it. I guess we’ll see soon enough. I’m not against using my phone in the parks, I was pretty good with the fp+ thing, but it makes me sad that others might end up losing out in their livelihood if they can’t find a way to adapt to technological advances.

 

[Miffy]

Am I excited that I may have to pay for "conveniences"? Seriously? Of course not. How could I possibly be excited that I'm now going to have to pay for things that used to be free on top of the ever-escalating costs of everything else at WDW?

I'm actually quite concerned that the new WDW will be pricing me out of going more than once every few years. I guess Disney will make up the money they'll lose from me and guests like me by replacing us with guests who have much much deeper pockets than I do.

 

[ajiuo]

One thing that concerns me is that Genie is such a great Disney character, but once this app launches he will start to be associated with negative things like the decline of in park experience and Bob Cheapeks money grab…

Perhaps it would be best if they used Jafars red evil Genie image within the app so that they don’t add any negative stigma to such a great character.

 

[Marionnette]

Guests willing to pay may be able reduce their total number of park days while at the same time seeing the same, or more, attractions.
A solution to guests who didn't think they were spending enough money.

That's something that I hadn't considered. But the "savings" gleaned by reducing your ticket by one or two days is highly dependent on how many days you would have normally purchased.

For instance, the difference between a 5-day base ticket starting on Sept 28 and a 7-day ticket is only $42, which won't buy you a lot of Lightning Passes for those 2 lost park days. But the difference between a 5-day and a 4-day base ticket is around $68, which could get you quite a few LPs if they run in the range of $10 apiece.

 

[Cynner]

Still optimistic here and hoping for news soon!

 

[fabfemmeboy]

Disneyland Paris has not a pay per ride system. It is a paid fastpass. And untill now it hasnt lead to an increase in waiting time for the regular queue. Before the introduction the waiting time at headliners (in a park with limited capacity) was 30-50 minutes and it still is.

A paid fastpass per ride, rather than a pay-per-day system such as Universal or some other parks have. Which, when discussing crowded park times and combining it with the rumours of standby lines that close at 60 minutes, becomes a pay-per-ride system as the paid fastpass is literally the only way to access that ride.

 

[Karin1984]

A paid fastpass per ride, rather than a pay-per-day system such as Universal or some other parks have. Which, when discussing crowded park times and combining it with the rumours of standby lines that close at 60 minutes, becomes a pay-per-ride system as the paid fastpass is literally the only way to access that ride.

There are 8 FP rides in Disneyland Paris. There are over 50 rides/experiences/things to do.

 

[Illinois76]

When someone asks why do you stick around a Disney forum when you "complain" all the time, I'm going to use this as a response. Thank you for saying it better than I could have. Bottomline, those who "complain" about Disney the most are often the very ones who love it the most as well.

I’ve never doubted that one but personally.

Where I get frustrated is the ‘the way it used to be’ mentality.

Things change… and it just seems nonsensical to think WDW would be any different.

And if I may add… the focus always seems to be on all the perceived slights (or nickel and diming as I see it called) and a totally biased view of the positives.

Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy’s Edge, Cosmic Rewind, Tron, multiple resort updates… it just seems disingenuous to point to the good old days, get pissed when the company tries to create revenue for its shareholders (even by charging for things that were once included) and then also gloss over all the investments they actually do make.

 

[New Mouse]

I’ve never doubted that one but personally.

Where I get frustrated is the ‘the way it used to be’ mentality.

Things change… and it just seems nonsensical to think WDW would be any different.

And if I may add… the focus always seems to be on all the perceived slights (or nickel and diming as I see it called) and a totally biased view of the positives.

Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy’s Edge, Cosmic Rewind, Tron, multiple resort updates… it just seems disingenuous to point to the good old days, get pissed when the company tries to create revenue for its shareholders (even by charging for things that were once included) and then also gloss over all the investments they actually do make.

But you are glossing over the fact that this level of profiteering was not needed in the past when enhancements were made, so why all of a sudden do we need to make people rich to have the same level of progress?

 

[Lee Matthews]

I would be more onboard with Genie if it wasn’t a separate App to DME. I’m a big pre-planner so don’t want to be doing much of it once I arrive at the parks.

However, things need to change. The parks are too crowded. Nobody seems to agree with me but I believe paid fastpasses are the way forward. Disney makes money off those who are willing to pay, which won’t be as many as people think and the standard lines will flow better and reduce times.

on top Genie is going to help move people into quieter areas.

I did wonder whether making every ride have a VQ on top would help further to ease the standby tool but then that may make the paid fast passes slightly redundant and relies constant viewing off your phone.