The 'Planning Backlash'

[Jennasis]

Same arguments...same players. Only the thread titles change (a little). Glad to be a part of another glorious day on the DIS!

 

[Laketravis]

Being closed to make room for new things.

I think MCO would have a much harder time to close an old terminal to make way for a new one. They See way more folks. Instead--it was a construction zone when they remodeled.

If an attraction is taking up a new space--you cannot keep operating it to build a new one. It isn't physically possible.

Growing pains for sure and an understandable reason to skip that park. For the infrequent visitor, it would be understandable to wait a few years.

In DC--there are a few things shut down for refurb. Natural History shut down an entire wing for several years.

When you have limited space and want something bigger and better to come, you don't have much of a choice to make room.

And I would assume you do know that things are coming to DHS.

Yes, I meant HS earlier, not DS - my fingers are bigger than the keys on this Barbie laptop.

You don't think there is enough room at WDW to build more? That something has to be removed to make room?

 

[Laketravis]

Same arguments...same players. Only the thread titles change (a little). Glad to be a part of another glorious day on the DIS!

It beats Oprah, right?

 

[Jennasis]

It beats Oprah, right?

Any day of the week!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, I meant HS earlier, not DS - my fingers are bigger than the keys on this Barbie laptop.

You don't think there is enough room at WDW to build more? That something has to be removed to make room?

That park is surrounded. Where would they expand?

I guess they can expand into the green space across the street and water way.
http://www.wdwinfo.com/resortmaps/propertymap.htm

They seem to be the most compact park by long shot.

 

[Laketravis]

...but Disney just attracts more people.

I think we all get that and Disney knows that. Which causes me to wonder further why they would not plan better. Help now would have had to have begun years ago.

You see it as it's crowded because there are more people. I see it as being crowded because they didn't plan effectively for more people. Of course they have plans, but they seem to be behind the curve.

Note I said "effectively" - they did plan for more people, but their strategy was and is to implement a plan that persuades those increased crowds to utilize attractions that previously suffered from lower demand.

It's like an airline that sees a substantial increase over time in passenger counts. They can decide to buy more planes, pack more people onto the planes they already have, or do a combination of the two.

Disney's decision was to pack more people onto the attractions they already have. Sure, they are planning more but the reasons for those plans are for the benefits that new attractions bring (popularity). They aren't necessarily doing it to increase capacity because many of those plans don't produce a substantial net increase in capacity.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It beats Oprah, right?

Any day of the week!

But no free cars for the audience.

 

[Laketravis]

That park is surrounded. Where would they expand?

I guess they can expand into the green space across the street and water way.
http://www.wdwinfo.com/resortmaps/propertymap.htm

They seem to be the most compact park by long shot.

Yeah, that map tends to represent it as a pretty tight situation. But looking at it using Google Earth provides a much better view that shows tons of open space available.

 

[kittyab]

We went to Bush Gardens in Williamsburg, Virginia this past summer. You could pay a little extra for an express pass for certain rides.

They did have the prepay for meals thing which we used.

But there was no pre-planning for rides. Now, when i lived in VA, we had a season pass and we would get there before the park opened so we could run to the Lock Ness Monster (roller coaster).

Some of the rides there the lines get so long I wish I had fast pass reservation lol!

 

[Laketravis]

But no free cars for the audience.

Not yet - but maybe we can hope for some overly philanthropic DIS'er to come along and decide to sprinkle us with gifts?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think we all get that and Disney knows that. Which causes me to wonder further why they would not plan better. Help now would have had to have begun years ago.

You see it as it's crowded because there are more people. I see it as being crowded because they didn't plan effectively for more people. Of course they have plans, but they seem to be behind the curve.

Note I said "effectively" - they did plan for more people, but their strategy was and is to implement a plan that persuades those increased crowds to utilize attractions that previously suffered from lower demand.

It's like an airline that sees a substantial increase over time in passenger counts. They can decide to buy more planes, pack more people onto the planes they already have, or do a combination of the two.

Disney's decision was to pack more people onto the attractions they already have. Sure, they are planning more but the reasons for those plans are for the benefits that new attractions bring (popularity). They aren't necessarily doing it to increase capacity because many of those plans don't produce a substantial net increase in capacity.

I wonder how much 9/11 impacted whatever vision they has on 9/10/01 before the decline in travel.

 

[TravelandLeisure]

I personally have a wonderful time planning out any vacation trip--it gives me a chance to "pre-live" it and imagine all of the fun I know my family and I are going to have. I fully agree that when I am spending thousands of dollars on a vacation the last thing I am going to do is "wing it." This goes for ANY vacation destination, not just Walt Disney World.

If I did not do all the research I did for WDW (including spending tons of time on the DIS), there are numerous activities and events I would never have even known existed. Our trip last summer was fabulous and worked seamlessly because of all the planning I did beforehand. My husband (who knew next to nothing about our trip other than the dates so he could take off work) was amazed how we were able to have all of our days flow and work the fast pass system--we never waited over 20 minutes for any ride the entire trip. This IMO would never have happened without planning. If pre-planning was drudgery for me I simply wouldn't do it, however it is almost as fun as the vacation itself

 

[Luckybee]

I am not being snarky or invalidating your experience. I am genuinely curious.

How much time did you spend and what exactly you were planning?

Also, you mention having to change MK day which messes up BOG and Dessert party. Why is this a problem with Disney if you changed your personal plans?

How many people are trying to secure reservations at El Bulli?

It almost seems that the greatest issue that covers all variables--is volume of guests and available capacity for what one wants to do. But then I get back into my hang up with the semantics of planning versus trying to be ahead of the demand and it simply being a matter of coordinator earlier than one would like to. And unfortunately--those changes that seem far enough in advance to be an issue do become an actual issue. And that is disappointing when that happens.

We happen to be the type who change plans frequently. What we might feel like doing 6 months from now or 60 days from now will, without doubt ,not be what we want to do then. This I can almost guarantee. It was difficult enough trying to decide where we felt like dining 6 months in advance but which rides....which park...omg it drove me nuts. On all previous trips to Disney we would book dining and then inevitably have to change some of our adr's a couple of weeks in advance. This would happen without fail. It's a pain stalking ressies but we'd do it. Then they added fp+. So now we would have to both change adr's and ride reservations. So for the 2 weeks prior to our 2 week trip, along with the first few days we were there I spent a lot of time(hours and hours ) stalking both dinner ressies and now also rides ressies.
Dh and I live a hour from Toronto and we have a few popular restaurants there that we like . We were in TO a couple of nights ago. We decided a week in advance which one we wanted to dine at. Couldn't get in but did get our 2nd choice. I can live with having to decide on dinner with a reasonable amount of advance notice but rides....which theme park...really??
Then when one gets to the park we couldn't just stroll and get on rides...nope had to be a x at y time....over and over and over again. I felt like I was at work , I really did.

And on Elbulli since you asked.... This is a restaurant that we dined at once in Spain. It's closed now. They would get a million requests a yr for tables. Im pretty sure it would be considered a better dining experience than anything Disney has to offer. They could only seat about 10,000 a yr I think. You didn't have to book 6 months in advance to get a table(but they did have criteria) nor do you with any of the top chef restaurants in the US and Canada(although you can with some and you do need advance reservations at most). Many wont even take a reservation that far in advance though.

At on how much planning...well....since we only stayed on property the first few nights, I was on the website on 5 separate occasions at midnight waiting for fp availability 60 days out and on a couple of those occasions I had to sit there for 2 hours for the rides to be loaded at 1 and 2 am. I had to juggle and re juggle times and places and then when we'd make a change go back to our touringplan to do it all over again because even 1 ride change would affect our dinner and other rides, and other plans etc etc etc. And none of this includes all the stalking time, or the adr times. I didn't add up all the hours because quite frankly I'd be afraid too. I would cry if I thought of how much more productive I could have been with those hours.

 

[Laketravis]

I wonder how much 9/11 impacted whatever vision they has on 9/10/01 before the decline in travel.

Yeah, that kind of marked the end of an era for WDW. Not the tragedy itself, but the point in time. I think a lot of the attractions we enjoy today were built in the 90's, with a few more added over the course of the next decade. But certainly nothing to the level of ambition that built entire parks like EP (1982) and HS (1989) and AK (1998), all in the span of 17 years. It's been 17 years since then.

9/11 could have been the wake-up call that parks could go idle for long periods of time due to external events beyond their control, and it could very well have dictated a change in long term strategic planning.

 

[nugov2]

Hi there, Nugov. I haven't talked to you since that throwaway thread.

I do not go every year, nor would I go every year, but in no way would I view it in the same regard as a Six Flags.

I would also speculate that the people who take the time to post here on a regular basis wouldn't do so if they saw WDW as "just a theme park".

I post on here on a regular basis and feel that way, but I don't equate that with a negative thing. Honestly, I wouldn't say they are six flags as the has a more hustle bustle feeling too it and it isn't as well kept, but honestly WDW has fallen a few pegs on that over the years. It is more immersive than a six flags/cedar point or Dollywood, but I view IOA as just as immersive. Disneyland and Dollywood take the top spot in my book as far as cleanliness and friendliness and just a warm fuzzy feeling though. I have been going to theme parks since I was young. My dad enjoys them and I have visited the majority in the US, but only a few keep bringing me back and WDW is one of them.

The definition of a theme park:

Theme parks, a specific type of amusement park, are usually much more intricately themed to a certain subject or group of subjects than normal amusement parks. A theme park has landscaping, buildings, and attractions that are based on one or more specific themes or stories.

I'd say that is exactly what WDW is. They just have a more inclusive resort feel(not price inclusive, but activity inclusive) if that is what you are looking for. They have been around a long time so for many are nostalgic and used to be known as one of the few places with a overly friendly/immersive experience. Now WDW is still untouchable in the experience department...tours, character meals, resort activities...but IMO as far as the theme park has really derailed a bit. I actually spent much more time at WDW growing up then DL, but for some reason I am more nostalgic for DL. Strange b/c I was much older when I my Aunt moved to Anaheim and I began to visit.

 

[nugov2]

Agreed, I expect it to be much harder to research and plan Hawaii than a WDW would be.

I've planned two weeks in Hawaii with much less stress IMO, but they don't tell me I can book my hotel whenever I want, then I have to wait until 6 months to book my restaurants and then a month before I arrive to book my activities. I mean if I booked private beach dining at 6 months and then tried to book our ATV day trip only to find out the ONLY day we could do it was the same day our private beach dinner was booked I would be upset, but nothing else in the world works that way. To be even more specific when we stayed at Princeville resort they allowed us to book our room, reservations and resort activities all at the same time...wanna know why? It makes sense and makes guests happy. If WDW planning was applied to any other vacation destination people would go bonkers, but for whatever reason people give WDW a pass on ridiculousness. I still like going, but I do find it to be stupid when it comes to their planning.

 

[Disney Queenie]

I am a planner, and I am not a fan of the new system. There is no flexibility, you are chained to the plan. Tiering! Epcot was a 3 day park for us before fast pass, now it is a 1 day park for us thanks to no promise of a FP for the ONLY 2 rides my family like in this park. The fast passes in the park are a joke, I get the privilege to wait in a line for an afternoon filler fast pass. Afternoon filler rides now have longer lines due to fast pass+ I could go on and on, even "planners" do not like this system!
I would like to sometimes choose that day, what park I choose to go to and have my fast passes at that park.

I have to be overscheduled at work, my kids sports, and school events.
I certainly do not want it on my vacation!

The backlash is simple the new system stinks to our family.

I just answered my Disney survey, and told them stop fixing rides that were great to begin with(the new test track is "lame" to quote my daughter), stop investing in tech to money grub another buck out me, and invest in some rides that are needed with the amount of people you serve in Epcot, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Have a variety of rides for all ages, that means rides that will appeal to little ones, tween/teens, and adults.
I have "lost that loving feeling" for Disney due to fast pass-

 

[Planogirl]

I've always planned our Disney vacations. I always checked to see which parades and other events might be of interest and then I would shoot for ADR's (usually just a few) around those. Of course now FP+ has to be added. I see others commenting that other destinations require planning too but I've never had to plan specific rides that only take minutes. Of course, we often have to make arrangements for tours and museum visits and such things but never amusement park rides. I guess that this just seems odd and overkill to us.

Anyway, this isn't really what has turned me off so I don't know why I even mention any of this. It's just an interesting topic in many ways, at least to me.

I see that many enjoy all of the planning and others not so much. It really depends on what a person considers a vacation.

 

[SuperTink]

I actually think that explains a lot.

I agree. Luckily, it's not my reality.

I'll stand in the long line for the Vatican, but not so much Soarin'.

And FP+ will either work *for me* or *against me* based on *my* values and preferences.

But I have had a good laugh or two at this thread. So it's all good.

 

[prudence64]

I like sitting with my iPad in front of the TV and planning things out. Improved the quality of our last trip
. its much more relaxing to me than waiting in huge lines or getting to an attraction super early in hopes that I get a FP that works. We never felt married to our plans and just used them as a guide. Changed some things as we went along. Super fun and stress free trip.