The 'Planning Backlash'

[snayak]

I don't mind planning & optimizing my trips as I do it for all our vacations anyway. For the most recent trip I allotted 45 minutes per attraction to arrive, ride, exit, bathroom, etc and move on to the next ride. Worked pretty well to gauge the number of attractions we could realistically do in a given day.

Curious as to how much of this is due to the fact Disney started enforcing FP return times, versus before when a FP was essentially good all day - this might make people feel more "locked in". Especially when they have multi ADRs...we only had 1 ADR, for BOG, rest of the time was spent munching around the world at FWF (I realize we're in the minority here) with a mid-morning QS wherever we were at.

I'd imagine group size also plays a part - a group of 2-4 young adults with similar interests versus 8-10 multi-generation groups is another layer of complexity regardless of where you're going.

 

[SmithSmith]

The dramatic license ride.

Lighten up.

No thanks, I don't want to.

As for being dramatic, that's my point. He (repeatedly) talks about how it's too much planning for what boils down to a "50 second ride in an amusement park".
FP attractions vary in length from 2:30 up to 40 minutes, yet he chooses to say "50 second ride". Then he equates WDW as "just an amusement park". If that's what Disney is to him then why even bother going? Why the need to be dramatically negative on a Disney World fan site?

 

[Mikie]

I tried to make the same point using McDonald's as an example and it went over like a bucket of poop. I like yours better

OMG! Did you see that? Laketravis just compared McDonald's to a bucket of poop! How dare you - I like McDonald's!

 

[SmithSmith]

Can you provide a source for your 7DMT ride duration? Everything I've seen indicates it is less than a minute and after riding it multiple times that certainly seemed accurate. It doesn't take 2.5 minutes to cover 2000 feet at an average speed of 35mph, does it?

I think you're forgetting about the dark ride portion.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/guides/magickingdom/fan-seven-dwarfs-mine-train.htm

 

[ArwenMarie]

I really think that holding things back is just a shell game. I would love it if they would pick one day though and release FPs and ADRs (including dessert parties) all at once. I don't blame you one bit for holding an extra BOG you didn't intend to use. It's what this system invites.

I don't think they have solved ADR redundancy at all (not saying there is anything wrong with it). Maybe if the fee was imposed earlier, but midnight the day before, eh.

 

[Shaden]

Can you provide a source for your 7DMT ride duration? Everything I've seen indicates it is less than a minute and after riding it multiple times that certainly seemed accurate. It doesn't take 2.5 minutes to cover 2000 feet at an average speed of 35mph, does it?

I guess this depends if you include the mine part of the ride, I just rode it a couple times in POV. If you don't include the Mine, it is indeed 50 seconds. If you include the mine and the slow part at the end looking at the witch and the house, it is 2mins 30 seconds.

I would probably go with the later estimate, the overall thing does take 2.5 mins.

 

[Laketravis]

FP attractions vary in length from 2:30 up to 40 minutes, yet he chooses to say "50 second ride". Then he equates WDW as "just an amusement park".

From what source did you obtain a two and a half minute ride duration for 7DMT? Everything I've seen (and after having ridden it multiple times) is less than a minute. Even if you are correct, some people do find it rather unusual to plan several months in advance for an amusement park ride that lasts less than the time it took to plan it in the first place.

And sorry, but MK is an amusement park.

Edit: Thanks Shaden. I wasn't counting the last part because for me the ride was technically over at that point but I can see how some reports are 50 seconds and total "experience" is 150 seconds.

 

[JimmyV]

Then he equates WDW as "just an amusement park". If that's what Disney is to him then why even bother going? Why the need to be dramatically negative on a Disney World fan site?

Since he was essentially agreeing with my post, your statement above is actually a comment on my thoughts, so I feel compelled to respond. I did not say, (and hence, Laketravis did not agree), that WDW is just an amusement park. Go back and re-read what I said. WDW (which represents the entirety of the vacation experience) is far more than an amusement park. But the MK and DHS are amusement parks. In the same way that a $15,000 Rolex "precision Swiss chronograph" is a watch. And the same way an Aston Martin "high tech driving machine" is an automobile. Better than the competition? Sure. But each respectively, an amusement park, watch and automobile. And acknowledging that is not "dramatic negativity."

 

[nugov2]

I really think that holding things back is just a shell game. I would love it if they would pick one day though and release FPs and ADRs (including dessert parties) all at once. I don't blame you one bit for holding an extra BOG you didn't intend to use. It's what this system invites.

I agree, it is just a complaint I often see from those that plan spontaneous trips or are local, so I guess could be a necessary evil to help those people. Honestly, WDW has brought the annoyed customers on themselves with they way they have it set up. It is frustrating to spend thousands on a vacation and ,all my ADR's just to have that messed up by 60 day FP selection. Those that say pick something else, well I think that is crap. We don't want to go every year. I want to do certain rides and eat certain places without having to jump through hoops to do it. Just like when we go to Hawaii, I want to do certain things and within reason nobody should have to settle. I have never felt I had to settle planning any other vacation and feel like the likelyhood on our next visit to WDW it may be our first time. Fingers crossed I am able to jump through all the hoops disney has set up!

I see the ADR hoarding as such a hot topic and I don't get it. People get crazy if they see people booking a restaurant multiple times.

 

[mellyf]

When my famiy (which includes my husband and 2 sons) went in 1996, I planned obsessively. Used the touring plans from the Unofficial Guide, was constantly on the computer, etc. My husband was constantly rolling his eyes. We stayed at the relatively new Wilderness Lodge, and had an absolutely wonderful time. Enough of a wonderful time that we cancelled our tall ship cruise that we had reserved for our 15th anniversary, and made reservations at the Beach Club. My husband still says that as much as he made fun of me for my planning, he realized while we were down there that it was a good thing.

Since then, we've gone mostly every two years, sometimes a little more often, sometimes a little more time in between. We've gone a couple times with our sons and their families (tons of fun w/ little kids), but mostly my husband and myself the last few years. I've never been one to make dining reservations for every day. We usually stay 5-7 days, and have 2 or 3 reservations at places we really want to eat. We've always been rope droppers (again, the first vacation I was dragging them out of bed kicking and screaming ), park hoppers, on-site guests, and take breaks in the middle of the day. When FP- was available, we took advantage of it if the times worked out, but it tended to be for rides like Soarin' or EE, which we'd head to at RD, grab a FP, then ride standby right away.

I plan which parks on which days, since we take advantage of EMH, and for those few ADRs I have planned. At this point, we know what rides/shows we like, and what we need to head to right away. I actually think FP+ wouldn't affect us that much since we do rope drop, and could schedule them for later in the day, but I have a very strong aversion to the idea of planning my rides out that far ahead of time. As I mentioned, I don't even have many ADRs planned. I'm a teacher, so we definitely have to go at busier times, which is probably why we really like taking a break in the middle of the day, AND why I would feel compelled to schedule FPs.

I'm very possibly cutting off my nose to spite my face (as my mother would say ), but I really dislike the idea of scheduling rides. It's hard enough to commit to when I want to do the few ADRs that I schedule.

 

[RMulieri]

It's all personal preference. End of story. Some like to plan and some don't.

I feel it is ridiculus to even be able to make appointments to ride a roller coaster. But this is what theme parks are now.

agree..I didn't like it but I was ok with booking dining 180 days in advance,hitting rope drop etc..But I personally find booking ride times ridiculous . My WHOLE daily life is rigid schedules, I don't want that on vacation.

 

[dwheaton]

I think planning versus FP+ are two different things. I love planning for Disney World. I read books, think about where we'll eat, stay, etc. It's enjoyable for me and is nearly as much fun as going to the parks.

On the other hand, I don't regard FP+ in the same vein. It's not just planning out all your attractions. It's restricting a service that was once not so restrictive in order to try and manage crowd flow. The issue is that depending on the ride, it can lead to longer lines and fewer things to do in the same time.

Before I get the "where are your sources?", let me clarify that it's my opinion. I have two young kids, and I admit that having a few FPs all set will probably help us. Of course, the downside is that I won't be moving quickly with them, so it's really hard to plan out anything. That's why I don't really see FP+ as truly a planning tool. There are too many restrictions, so the benefit even for an uber-planner is limited.

 

[nugov2]

I don't think they have solved ADR redundancy at all (not saying there is anything wrong with it). Maybe if the fee was imposed earlier, but midnight the day before, eh.

I agree. I'd also pay the fee for certain ADR's if I felt it was the only way to guarantee. What's an extra $50 bucks on an already expensive vacation. Plus my kids would rather have experiences than things so they wouldn't miss it if we took our souvenir fund(which is always low) and spent it on cancellation fees for a few ADR's!

 

[JanaDee]

Hahaha!

If only!

At this point, I feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall. I'm kinda over "discussing" why I don't care for FP+.

 

[Laketravis]

It's not just planning out all your attractions. It's restricting a service that was once not so restrictive in order to try and manage crowd flow. The issue is that depending on the ride, it can lead to longer lines and fewer things to do in the same time.

Exactly. And to some of us it simply masks a larger issue of insufficient capacity, which leads to thoughts of why there aren't more and larger plans for expansion, which leads to discussions about profit and corporate motivation, which then sometimes and unfortunately leads to emotional reactions among a group (all DISer's) with a strong common interest but equally strong opposing views.

I've been trying to find stats on what percentage of guests to WDW are first timers. It's been difficult to find so far. But I'm curious to know what it is because I also try to see the entire resort/meal/park/ride planning process from a first-timer's point of view. It has to be overwhelming, but even if it isn't what is important is the value equation they come away with after experiencing what all of their planning (or no planning) actually produced and how they feel about that.

 

[JanaDee]

No thanks, I don't want to.

As for being dramatic, that's my point. He (repeatedly) talks about how it's too much planning for what boils down to a "50 second ride in an amusement park".
FP attractions vary in length from 2:30 up to 40 minutes, yet he chooses to say "50 second ride". Then he equates WDW as "just an amusement park". If that's what Disney is to him then why even bother going? Why the need to be dramatically negative on a Disney World fan site?

MK, EP, AK and DHS are just amusement parks.

 

[dwheaton]

I've been trying to find stats on what percentage of guests to WDW are first timers. It's been difficult to find so far. But I'm curious to know what it is because I also try to see the entire resort/meal/park/ride planning process from a first-timer's point of view. It has to be overwhelming, but even if it isn't what is important is the value equation they come away with after experiencing what all of their planning (or no planning) actually produced and how they feel about that.

I was thinking about first-timers when I was booking FP+ and the way you need to go back and adjust the times after the first selections. I feel like even something fairly easy like that could be too much for a first-time visitor. Of course, they may not realize what they're missing since it's the first experience, so the satisfaction results might still be high I guess.

 

[SmithSmith]

Since he was essentially agreeing with my post, your statement above is actually a comment on my thoughts, so I feel compelled to respond. I did not say, (and hence, Laketravis did not agree), that WDW is just an amusement park. Go back and re-read what I said. WDW (which represents the entirety of the vacation experience) is far more than an amusement park. But the MK and DHS are amusement parks. In the same way that a $15,000 Rolex "precision Swiss chronograph" is a watch. And the same way an Aston Martin "high tech driving machine" is an automobile. Better than the competition? Sure. But each respectively, an amusement park, watch and automobile. And acknowledging that is not "dramatic negativity."

I'm sorry, I was just responding to LT's REPEATED use of a phrase that goes something like this: "reserving a 50 second ride 2 months in advance at an amusement park is crazy". He says something like this often, well before this thread and your comment even existed.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm sorry, I was just responding to LT's REPEATED use of a phrase that goes something like this: "reserving a 50 second ride 2 months in advance at an amusement park is crazy". He says something like this often, well before this thread and your comment even existed.

Please get your quotes correct.

What I said is more like this:

"..some people do find it rather unusual to plan several months in advance for an amusement park ride that lasts less than the time it took to plan it in the first place."

"I can't help but look at what it was I performed all that planning for. A 50 second ride in an amusement park? Some would call that obsessive compulsive behavior."

 

[estherhead]

Now imagine how complicated/frustrating/irritating your planning would have been if your visit to the Louvre involved "locking in" specific times of the day to see the Mona Lisa, Winged Victory, the Venus de Milo, the Raft of Medusa, Madonna on the Rocks and the Coronation of Napoleon! WDW has introduced a level of "micro planning" that even a trip to France does not require!

All cities require you stand in long entrance lines to many of their major attractions, get there an hour before opening, or buy a prepaid ticket online with an exact time frame for you to arrive. At the Eiffel Tower you can wait in the 2-3 hour line, walk the stairs, or buy a ticket online months in advance with an exact time. It's the same everywhere.

We went to Barcelona a few years ago and went super off season (it was freezing!) and then got up REALLY early so we could get to the Sagrada Familia before the lines. By the time we left the line wrapped around the building. And if wanted to take the elevator instead of the crazy stairs you got a timed ticket.

I found the crowds around the Mona Lisa so overwhelming I don't even remember the portrait. I only remember feeling like I was gonna suffocate. I would have LOVED to have a time to see it locked in that I had to work around and only, say 30?, people allowed into that room at a time. That is how the Sistine Chapel was when I visited 15 years ago. You had a time and you just wandered around the Vatican waiting for your time to come up.