The next country to drop the "bomb" will be?

[TCPluto]

It so funny that someone with the incredibly large number of 32 post under his/her belt talks about a long line of snide attack
One more person posting on disguise How brave

Reading and writing are two very different issues here Vikey. She obviously has done a great deal more reading here than writing.

However, it would only take reading one additional thread, apart from this one, to see that all of your posts are equally condescending to Americans and the USA.

 

[Viking]

This has been a interesting thread and I'm glad the moderators haven't locked it down. I actually found the replies about America and it's past by Viking to be quite ironic, considering that Germany has the sleaziest record of human rights in the past 100 years.

The cold hard facts are that Germany did start 2 World Wars to conquer the world. It cost untold millions of lives, dollars, human suffering, and it required the USA to end both of them. You can argue this to the cows come home but the cold facts of history can't be ignored. Two World Wars were started by just one country (Germany) in the span of 20 years between each other. Enough said!


Does the USA have it's share of bad history? Of course we do but I'm proud of my country and how it deals with these issues and we do try and make things right. Look at the recent strides made by Black Americans from just 30 years ago. Within 10 years I expect a Black American to be President and if qualified they have my vote. Our bad moments in history don't even come close to what Germany has done in the past century. 10 million people perished in death camps in the time span of a decade and that figure doesn't even include the lives destroyed by Germany's war machine. I don't think Germany has the right to point fingers at other nations for about another 100 years or so.


Hate my country Viking for what ever reason you may have, but thanks to America you have the right to do so. I don't think the Third Reich or the Soviet Union would have allowed you the freedom to bash it's leaders or discuss any negative aspects of it's history. As for the comment about everyday Germans not knowing about the final solution during the war, Garbage. You can't brutally round up millions of a certain race, take away their posessions, put them on a crowded box car with no food or water, and think they are going to a perfect Utopia or dreamland. People may be dumb but few are that stupid and I'll be willing to bet that many knew those poor people were never comming back. That poor excuse of "we didn't know what was going on" didn't work then and doesn't work now.

Flame away all you want Viking, but my country with it's warts and all is still the greatest Free nation to ever grace the Earth. I shudder to think what would have happened to the world if the USA hadn't been around when Hitler began his blood thirsty quest of world domination.

Obviously you don't know much about history or are weak in math:
WWI - 1914-1918
WWII - 1939-1945
So the span is considerably more than 20 years

But at least you knew why you chose only to count the last 100 years as you were already finished with the near extinction of the Native Americans by then
Count in the millions of slaves and we're getting even.
BTW your record concerning human rights isn't exactly 'perfect' lately according to Amnesty International.

And you're 100% wrong in having a black president within the next 10 years. The first non WASP-president will be of Hispanic origin, all probabalities point in that direction - together with Spanish becoming your official languange sooner or later
And talking about African Americans being equal nowadays in your society: Did youn know that 1 of 8 male African Americans bteween age 18 and 39 are imprisoned? That's not what one would call 'equal opportunity'.

 

[Viking]

I don't believe the US would ever initiate use of a nuclear bomb again. I can't imagine the US ever again using the bomb to end a traditional war, and the poster who commented that they wouldn't be surprised to see Bush drop all of our bombs in the Middle East is being flip and/or unreasonable in my opinion. I do think bombing Japan resulted in saving more lives by ending the war sooner. I also think that the lessons world wide taken from it in the years following caused deliberate constraint by most countries. However, since the Cold War has ended, it appears that some nations are insistent on obtaining nuclear capabilities for reasons other then defense. I believe countries such as the US, Israel, and European countries (including Germany) would be attacked before they would retaliate. I would not be surprised for countries such as North Korea or Iran to initiate an attack. To me there is a big difference between nations that have the ability to use these weapons, but not the desire, versus those that do or are seeking them, and have no desire for peace. Disagree with the President and his policies and decisions to go to war all you want, but to truly believe that he desires the downfall of civilization as some of those intolerant and radical hate mongers overseas are striving for, is just not a logical comparison in my mind.

I think you're mixing up two things now:
Strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. The former would surely mean the end of civilization, the latter not. Thus the threashold of using tactical nuclear weapons of a minor yield of ,say, 50kilotons could be an option - even for a country. Even though that minor impact can really ruin you day the effects would be limited locally.

 

[Charade]

Obviously you don't know much about history or are weak in math:
WWI - 1914-1918
WWII - 1939-1945
So the span is considerably more than 20 years

Ok, so it was 25. Big deal.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I think you're mixing up two things now:
Strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. The former would surely mean the end of civilization, the latter not. Thus the threashold of using tactical nuclear weapons of a minor yield of ,say, 50kilotons could be an option - even for a country. Even though that minor impact can really ruin you day the effects would be limited locally.

It depends on the goal. A group of radicals could get control of a tactical nuclear weapon to use against say, Israel, with it very clear in their mind that the retaliation would in turn be strategic nuclear weapons.

 

[Viking]

There's a lot of debate about why exactly the second atomic bomb was dropped. The U.S. was gearing up for a large land battle on Japanese soil that would have cost the lives of thousands of U.S. troops; after the first bomb the U.S. requested unconditional Japanese surrender and was denied; if the Russians had helped the U.S. in the land battle, they may have demanded control over part of Japan (then half of Japan would be speakin' Russian by now). Anyway, using the nuclear bombs undoubtedly cost Japanese lives and spared Americans. Since we didn't start the war, I see it as justified and unfortunate. I hope it never happens again.

As for the Indians, many died from disease, and yeah, we did take over their land. As for slaves, much of Europe had slaves and serfs (which were de facto slaves) for hundreds of years.

To be honest, most Americans don't even compare the negative events of our past on the same level as the atrocities of Germany during WWII and the millions that were killed because of the Kaiser's power hungry aggression during WWI. We don't even see it as a close comparison, and I'm German by heritage (all pre-20th century, though).

Talking about the slaves:
None of the countries using slaves then had a constitution with 'All men are born equal' in it at that time.
That YOU don't see it as a close comparison is quite understandable - form your pointz of view.
But I also have to admit -like every honest German does- the scale on which the Nazis worked, the inhumanity they used, is unparalleled in history and we will always be ashamed of it - and I'm German by birth (late 20th century )

 

[JennyMominRI]

Obviously you don't know much about history or are weak in math:
WWI - 1914-1918
WWII - 1939-1945
So the span is considerably more than 20 years

But at least you knew why you chose only to count the last 100 years as you were already finished with the near extinction of the Native Americans by then
Count in the millions of slaves and we're getting even.
BTW your record concerning human rights isn't exactly 'perfect' lately according to Amnesty International.

And you're 100% wrong in having a black president within the next 10 years. The first non WASP-president will be of Hispanic origin, all probabalities point in that direction - together with Spanish becoming your official languange sooner or later
And talking about African Americans being equal nowadays in your society: Did youn know that 1 of 8 male African Americans bteween age 18 and 39 are imprisoned? That's not what one would call 'equal opportunity'.

 

[Holly]

Obviously you don't know much about history or are weak in math:
WWI - 1914-1918
WWII - 1939-1945
So the span is considerably more than 20 years

But at least you knew why you chose only to count the last 100 years as you were already finished with the near extinction of the Native Americans by then
Count in the millions of slaves and we're getting even.
BTW your record concerning human rights isn't exactly 'perfect' lately according to Amnesty International.

And you're 100% wrong in having a black president within the next 10 years. The first non WASP-president will be of Hispanic origin, all probabalities point in that direction - together with Spanish becoming your official languange sooner or later
And talking about African Americans being equal nowadays in your society: Did youn know that 1 of 8 male African Americans bteween age 18 and 39 are imprisoned? That's not what one would call 'equal opportunity'.

But Viking, slavery and smallpox-ridden blankets are SO much more humane than gas chambers.

 

[L107ANGEL]

Its his way of saying we are still keeping our African Americans as slaves but now we put them in our prisons

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

But at least you knew why you chose only to count the last 100 years as you were already finished with the near extinction of the Native Americans by then

Make sure you include most of the powers of Europe at the time in their use/abuse of the Native Americans as they were colonizing both North and South America. There was the nasty bit with the smallpox blankets the British were handing out.

But I'm sure that the boarders of modern day Germany were always the same as they are now and no blood was shed by any tribes fighting over the biggest hill 3000 years ago.

 

[Viking]

It depends on the goal. A group of radicals could get control of a tactical nuclear weapon to use against say, Israel, with it very clear in their mind that the retaliation would in turn be strategic nuclear weapons.

Yup,
the 'Sum of All Fears'-scenario, so to say.
Another fact that would speak against using nuclear devices in that area is oil. Wouldn't it be dumb to contaminate most of the world's oil reserves with radiation? OK, we would have 'atomic cars' then, but in the long run it would suck
Paul E. Erdman wrote a book about that called 'Crash '81' in the late 70ies.

The main problem I see with those fanatics in teh Middle East is, that they believe in a life after death, which considerably lowers the threshold to use such a weapon. Hopefully we Werstern nations can make sure that they can't lay their hands on such weapons.

 

[Viking]

Its his way of saying we are still keeping our African Americans as slaves but now we put them in our prisons

No, it is his way of saying that you're still a big step away from a society of equal opportunity. Just think of what happened in New Orleans last year.

 

[Charade]

No, it is his way of saying that you're still a big step away from a society of equal opportunity. Just think of what happened in New Orleans last year.

And that would be what? I eagerly await a European opinion on that.

 

[Viking]

Make sure you include most of the powers of Europe at the time in their use/abuse of the Native Americans as they were colonizing both North and South America. There was the nasty bit with the smallpox blankets the British were handing out.

But I'm sure that the boarders of modern day Germany were always the same as they are now and no was shed by any tribes fighting over the biggest hill 3000 years ago.

'no was shed' I assume you wanted to say 'No blood was shed'.
I never denied that we shed blood over here, I never did as there weren't any 'warts' on our history - I just stated that you had them too and was attacked for it.

BTW, the borders of modern Germany as they are now are just 16 years old, and we're still grateful to Bush Sr & Gorbachev for that.

 

[disneyfan67]

Obviously you don't know much about history or are weak in math:
WWI - 1914-1918
WWII - 1939-1945
So the span is considerably more than 20 years

But at least you knew why you chose only to count the last 100 years as you were already finished with the near extinction of the Native Americans by then
Count in the millions of slaves and we're getting even.
BTW your record concerning human rights isn't exactly 'perfect' lately according to Amnesty International.

And you're 100% wrong in having a black president within the next 10 years. The first non WASP-president will be of Hispanic origin, all probabalities point in that direction - together with Spanish becoming your official languange sooner or later
And talking about African Americans being equal nowadays in your society: Did youn know that 1 of 8 male African Americans bteween age 18 and 39 are imprisoned? That's not what one would call 'equal opportunity'.

1918 the end of WW1 to 1939 the begining of WW2 is 21 years, excuse me for being off by one year. If that's the best you got then you're grasping for straws.

As for slavery and it impact on human and America's history, Europe has it's hands dirty on this as well and slavery was going on long before America had became a free, independent country it is today. Nice try on that one though, and America has spent over a trillion dollars on social programs since the 1960's alone to make up for the terrible treatment of Black Americans. Perfect in every way? I think not but at least we're trying.

As for the amount of Black men in jail, you act like they are political prisoners and have done nothing wrong. You do realize that some people do bad things all on their own and not everyone is innocent, reguardless of skin color.

Nice try with the race bating about a Hispanic person being President, as if to imply that we as a country would be finished if that would happen. Cheap shot and a vulgar one at that. One day a President in America will be a person of color, what's the big deal? It will go to show how far America has came. It will happen in my lifetime and America will be better for it.

BTW your record concerning human rights isn't exactly 'perfect' lately according to Amnesty International.

If you think we have a worse record than Cuba, North Korea, Iran, and the list goes on, then you need to get real as the saying goes. That quote of yours above was beyond ridiculous and shamefull. I'd rather be at Gitmo being fed 3 squares a day then in a prison in North Korea or Iran. (only God knows what they do to you.)

Crack open a honest history book and free your mind and heart from hate as well. Hate will only lead to people being put in camps and made to disapear. Some hatefull people even called it a final solution, I believe.

 

[ChuckB]

I would say Viking has a love hate relationship with the us.
but I do argee with SOME , not all of his points are wrong and can be backed up with facts, the debateable ones , his opinion, he does need another way of delivering his opinion, in MY opinion,
back to the topic, I think that the next country/person will be some sort of terrorist with a dirty bomb/stolen nuclear device, more than likely from the middle east .... just my opinion folks, and yes Viking , I do have my own flame resistant siut, in real life even

 

[Viking]

And that would be what? I eagerly await a European opinion on that.

You won't get an European opinion from me on that. There were enough AMERICAN opinions (Even on these boards) stating that the lack of help by the federal government was due to the fact that mainly African Americans were affected by that.

 

[L107ANGEL]

No, it is his way of saying that you're still a big step away from a society of equal opportunity. Just think of what happened in New Orleans last year.

My very first response to this thread stated I love my country flaws and all. I reinterated that thought. Not sure why you can't grasp that.
As for New Orleans, what is that supposed to mean.

 

[momof2inPA]

Talking about the slaves:
None of the countries using slaves then had a constitution with 'All men are born equal' in it at that time.

I don't understand why having a monarchy would excuse the populace for inhumane behavior.

Thanks for acknowledging the scale of the German atrocities.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

'no was shed' I assume you wanted to say 'No blood was shed'.
I never denied that we shed blood over here, I never did as there weren't any 'warts' on our history - I just stated that you had them too and was attacked for it.

BTW, the borders of modern Germany as they are now are just 16 years old, and we're still grateful to Bush Sr & Gorbachev for that.

I edited the blood in before you posted.

I understand what you're staying. Just pointing out that old Europe was there right along with us in the elimination of the Native Americans and that almost every boarder that stands now is the result of the loss of life.