The next country to drop the "bomb" will be?

[Viking]

The atomic bomb issue ties my stomach up in knots... I feel ill reading stories from survivors etc.. And I can't decide if it was neccessary or not. Hindsight is 20/20..Did it save more lives than it cost? I really hope so,and really want to believe so.. It's one of those things that causes me to think until my head hurts... I hope we never have to make that sort of choice again as a country

Jenny,
have a look at this:
Some have claimed that the Japanese were already essentially defeated, and therefore use of the bombs was unnecessary. General Dwight D. Eisenhower so advised the Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson, in July of 1945.[28] The highest-ranking officer in the Pacific Theater, General Douglas MacArthur, was not consulted beforehand, but said afterward that he felt that there was no military justification for the bombings. The same opinion was expressed by Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (the Chief of Staff to the President), General Carl Spaatz (commander of the U.S. Strategic Air Forces in the Pacific), and Brigadier General Carter Clarke (the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials);[28] Major General Curtis LeMay;[29] and Admiral Ernest King, U.S. Chief of Naval Operations, Undersecretary of the Navy Ralph A. Bard [30], and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet.[31]

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia showing that even high-ranking American military experts of that era didn't deem the use of THE BOMB necessary.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny,
have a look at this:
Some have claimed that the Japanese were already essentially defeated, and therefore use of the bombs was unnecessary. General Dwight D. Eisenhower so advised the Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson, in July of 1945.[28] The highest-ranking officer in the Pacific Theater, General Douglas MacArthur, was not consulted beforehand, but said afterward that he felt that there was no military justification for the bombings. The same opinion was expressed by Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (the Chief of Staff to the President), General Carl Spaatz (commander of the U.S. Strategic Air Forces in the Pacific), and Brigadier General Carter Clarke (the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials);[28] Major General Curtis LeMay;[29] and Admiral Ernest King, U.S. Chief of Naval Operations, Undersecretary of the Navy Ralph A. Bard [30], and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet.[31]

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia showing that even high-ranking American military experts of that era didn't deem the use of THE BOMB necessary.

Oh I know..I've read alll sorts of stuff,and all sorts of opinions.. But like I said,Hindsight is 20/20..For all of those who thought the bombing was not neccesary ,there were those who thought it was..

 

[L107ANGEL]

And which of these points was a contribution to the topic?

A contribution to the topic! The original poster has no problems with people going off topic why should you! Pappa if I am wrong I apologize and please feel free to correct me.
See heres the thing Viking its the way you try to draw these debates out and in to the manner that you do. Its only to get a rise out of us and congratulations you achieved it again
Now Jenny on the other hand brings her thoughts to the table in a respectfull way. Big difference!!
Maybe she can teach you how!

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

That shouldn't be a problem as Brad Pitt already has a new lady
Yup, Wikipedia can be manipulated, but usually that is discovered quickly.


Back to topic:
We talked a lot about that topic in history at high school and I thought it common knowledge that the use of the bombs was also considered 'testing' by many historian. Therefore I first didn't deem it necessary to post that source.

I would guess the history of the Middle East would be different if you went to a school in Israel or Iran. The truth is prob. somewhere in the middle.

There are a lot of things my country has and does do that I'm not proud of. This is just one thing that I find hard to accept. Harry Truman was in my mind a strong leader, and to 'test' a weapon of that much power for no reason other than to see if it works and without regard to life at all, I find pretty hard to believe. I've read a few books on the man, and it doesn't fit in with his life. I don't see this as being a very easy thing for him to decide. Ultimately it was his decision.

 

[Chicago Girl]

Isn't this thread about nuclear bombs?

Viking brought up the fact that only one country has used them offensively. He's right.

Certain Posters retaliate and bring up the history of Germany, which in no way pertains to this thread. As far as nuclear weapons go, last I knew, Germany didn't have any.

Of course, I realize this thread is about nuclear weapons. I responded to what I perceived to be another in a long line of snide attack this German has posted at America.

 

[Viking]

A contribution to the topic! The original poster has no problems with people going off topic why should you! Pappa if I am wrong I apologize and please feel free to correct me.
See heres the thing Viking its the way you try to draw these debates out and in to the manner that you do. Its only to get a rise out of us and congratulations you achieved it again
Now Jenny on the other hand brings her thoughts to the table in a respectfull way. Big difference!!
Maybe she can teach you how!

Your intolerance for foreigners criticizing the USA made you miss one point:
The OP asked which country is CRAZY or DESPERATE enough to use nuclear weapons and I simply worded my reply according to this - So you see, both terms were chosen by an AMERICAN, but I was attacked for it on the lowest possible level.

 

[TCPluto]

Now Jenny on the other hand brings her thoughts to the table in a respectfull way. Big difference!!
Maybe she can teach you how!

Never going to happen. You're asking Vikey to change who he is.

 

[Viking]

Of course, I realize this thread is about nuclear weapons. I responded to what I perceived to be another in a long line of snide attack this German has posted at America.

It so funny that someone with the incredibly large number of 32 post under his/her belt talks about a long line of snide attack
One more person posting on disguise How brave

 

[JennyMominRI]

Never going to happen. You're asking Vikey to change who he is.

Viking is very blunt and matter of fact.... This is very common with my European friends..For the most part ,though my European freinds are very ready turn turn that blunt matter of factness back at their own countires missteps... If you think Viking is blunt, you should hear the way a lot of the people I know from the UK speak about US and UK politics...

 

[WonderfulDreamer2]

It so funny that someone with the incredibly large number of 32 post under his/her belt talks about a long line of snide attack
One more person posting on disguise How brave

 

[disneyfan67]

This has been a interesting thread and I'm glad the moderators haven't locked it down. I actually found the replies about America and it's past by Viking to be quite ironic, considering that Germany has the sleaziest record of human rights in the past 100 years.

The cold hard facts are that Germany did start 2 World Wars to conquer the world. It cost untold millions of lives, dollars, human suffering, and it required the USA to end both of them. You can argue this to the cows come home but the cold facts of history can't be ignored. Two World Wars were started by just one country (Germany) in the span of 20 years between each other. Enough said!


Does the USA have it's share of bad history? Of course we do but I'm proud of my country and how it deals with these issues and we do try and make things right. Look at the recent strides made by Black Americans from just 30 years ago. Within 10 years I expect a Black American to be President and if qualified they have my vote. Our bad moments in history don't even come close to what Germany has done in the past century. 10 million people perished in death camps in the time span of a decade and that figure doesn't even include the lives destroyed by Germany's war machine. I don't think Germany has the right to point fingers at other nations for about another 100 years or so.


Hate my country Viking for what ever reason you may have, but thanks to America you have the right to do so. I don't think the Third Reich or the Soviet Union would have allowed you the freedom to bash it's leaders or discuss any negative aspects of it's history. As for the comment about everyday Germans not knowing about the final solution during the war, Garbage. You can't brutally round up millions of a certain race, take away their posessions, put them on a crowded box car with no food or water, and think they are going to a perfect Utopia or dreamland. People may be dumb but few are that stupid and I'll be willing to bet that many knew those poor people were never comming back. That poor excuse of "we didn't know what was going on" didn't work then and doesn't work now.

Flame away all you want Viking, but my country with it's warts and all is still the greatest Free nation to ever grace the Earth. I shudder to think what would have happened to the world if the USA hadn't been around when Hitler began his blood thirsty quest of world domination.

 

[Chicago Girl]

It so funny that someone with the incredibly large number of 32 post under his/her belt talks about a long line of snide attack
One more person posting on disguise How brave

Believe me, I don’t have a need to be in disguise to respond to your post. I haven’t responded before, but today I just couldn’t resist.

 

[TCPluto]

Viking is very blunt and matter of fact....

You see blunt and matter of fact; the rest of us see rude, condescending, disrespectful, and hateful.

I have many European friends, none of which would fit in a group with him, thankfully.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I don't believe the US would ever initiate use of a nuclear bomb again. I can't imagine the US ever again using the bomb to end a traditional war, and the poster who commented that they wouldn't be surprised to see Bush drop all of our bombs in the Middle East is being flip and/or unreasonable in my opinion. I do think bombing Japan resulted in saving more lives by ending the war sooner. I also think that the lessons world wide taken from it in the years following caused deliberate constraint by most countries. However, since the Cold War has ended, it appears that some nations are insistent on obtaining nuclear capabilities for reasons other then defense. I believe countries such as the US, Israel, and European countries (including Germany) would be attacked before they would retaliate. I would not be surprised for countries such as North Korea or Iran to initiate an attack. To me there is a big difference between nations that have the ability to use these weapons, but not the desire, versus those that do or are seeking them, and have no desire for peace. Disagree with the President and his policies and decisions to go to war all you want, but to truly believe that he desires the downfall of civilization as some of those intolerant and radical hate mongers overseas are striving for, is just not a logical comparison in my mind.

 

[L107ANGEL]

This has been a interesting thread and I'm glad the moderators haven't locked it down. I actually found the replies about America and it's past by Viking to be quite ironic, considering that Germany has the sleaziest record of human rights in the past 100 years.

The cold hard facts are that Germany did start 2 World Wars to conquer the world. It cost untold millions of lives, dollars, human suffering, and it required the USA to end both of them. You can argue this to the cows come home but the cold facts of history can't be ignored. Two World Wars were started by just one country (Germany) in the span of 20 years between each other. Enough said!


Does the USA have it's share of bad history? Of course we do but I'm proud of my country and how it deals with these issues and we do try and make things right. Look at the recent strides made by Black Americans from just 30 years ago. Within 10 years I expect a Black American to be President and if qualified they have my vote. Our bad moments in history don't even come close to what Germany has done in the past century. 10 million people perished in death camps in the time span of a decade and that figure doesn't even include the lives destroyed by Germany's war machine. I don't think Germany has the right to point fingers at other nations for about another 100 years or so.


Hate my country Viking for what ever reason you may have, but thanks to America you have the right to do so. I don't think the Third Reich or the Soviet Union would have allowed you the freedom to bash it's leaders or discuss any negative aspects of it's history. As for the comment about everyday Germans not knowing about the final solution during the war, Garbage. You can't brutally round up millions of a certain race, take away their posessions, put them on a crowded box car with no food or water, and think they are going to a perfect Utopia or dreamland. People may be dumb but few are that stupid and I'll be willing to bet that many knew those poor people were never comming back. That poor excuse of "we didn't know what was going on" didn't work then and doesn't work now.

Flame away all you want Viking, but my country with it's warts and all is still the greatest Free nation to ever grace the Earth. I shudder to think what would have happened to the world if the USA hadn't been around when Hitler began his blood thirsty quest of world domination.

Excellent post!!

 

[Viking]

I would guess the history of the Middle East would be different if you went to a school in Israel or Iran. The truth is prob. somewhere in the middle.

There are a lot of things my country has and does do that I'm not proud of. This is just one thing that I find hard to accept. Harry Truman was in my mind a strong leader, and to 'test' a weapon of that much power for no reason other than to see if it works and without regard to life at all, I find pretty hard to believe. I've read a few books on the man, and it doesn't fit in with his life. I don't see this as being a very easy thing for him to decide. Ultimately it was his decision.

Sure, history is always taught from a 'Point of View', but you can rest assured that especially the history of WWII was and is taught in German schools with a very critical eye at the role we played in that war. I also visited a Concentration Camp during my high school time, even attended a one week seminary in Dachau. We have monuments remembering the holocaust everywhere. This part of our history must never be forgotten.
And -as Jenny stated it- the 'warts' on our history overshadowed most of what was done by the other parties in WWII, i.e. the Firestorm of Dresden.

The problem I often see with Americans -especially the rightwingers- is that they have a very selective memory when it comes to their country's history as can easily be proven by the posts of people like TCPluto, whom BTW I chose to ignore from now on.

 

[TCPluto]

Flame away all you want Viking, but my country with it's warts and all is still the greatest Free nation to ever grace the Earth. I shudder to think what would have happened to the world if the USA hadn't been around when Hitler began his blood thirsty quest of world domination.

Excellent post DF67!

 

[L107ANGEL]

I don't believe the US would ever initiate use of a nuclear bomb again. I can't imagine the US ever again using the bomb to end a traditional war, and the poster who commented that they wouldn't be surprised to see Bush drop all of our bombs in the Middle East is being flip and/or unreasonable in my opinion. I do think bombing Japan resulted in saving more lives by ending the war sooner. I also think that the lessons world wide taken from it in the years following caused deliberate constraint by most countries. However, since the Cold War has ended, it appears that some nations are insistent on obtaining nuclear capabilities for reasons other then defense. I believe countries such as the US, Israel, and European countries (including Germany) would be attacked before they would retaliate. I would not be surprised for countries such as North Korea or Iran to initiate an attack. To me there is a big difference between nations that have the ability to use these weapons, but not the desire, versus those that do or are seeking them, and have no desire for peace. Disagree with the President and his policies and decisions to go to war all you want, but to truly believe that he desires the downfall of civilization as some of those intolerant and radical hate mongers overseas are striving for, is just not a logical comparison in my mind.

Another excellent post!

 

[TCPluto]

Your intolerance for foreigners criticizing the USA made you miss one point:

You miss the point. It's not the criticism, it's the way you do it, so filled with contempt for the USA.

 

[momof2inPA]

There's a lot of debate about why exactly the second atomic bomb was dropped. The U.S. was gearing up for a large land battle on Japanese soil that would have cost the lives of thousands of U.S. troops; after the first bomb the U.S. requested unconditional Japanese surrender and was denied; if the Russians had helped the U.S. in the land battle, they may have demanded control over part of Japan (then half of Japan would be speakin' Russian by now). Anyway, using the nuclear bombs undoubtedly cost Japanese lives and spared Americans. Since we didn't start the war, I see it as justified and unfortunate. I hope it never happens again.

As for the Indians, many died from disease, and yeah, we did take over their land. As for slaves, much of Europe had slaves and serfs (which were de facto slaves) for hundreds of years.

To be honest, most Americans don't even compare the negative events of our past on the same level as the atrocities of Germany during WWII and the millions that were killed because of the Kaiser's power hungry aggression during WWI. We don't even see it as a close comparison, and I'm German by heritage (all pre-20th century, though).