The new resale rule: The Empire Strikes Back

[ChiSoxKeith]

Honestly I'm more worried about DVC expanding beyond it's capability then anything else.

I'd rather DVC keep the current resorts and work on improving what's already here, rather than expand expand expand and let the quality of the product fell slowly but surely.

But that's a personal opinion.

I agree with you 100%. I worry about them expanding too far. It's why I think the River Country DVC rumor kind of scares me. There seem to be plenty of resorts at WDW. Would love to see another resort at DLR.

Someone in this thread said the change is like bait & switch. If you bought direct from Disney, DVD didn't bait & switch anything on you. You still have access to DCL, ABD, etc. And if you already bought resale, you're full members because you're being grandfathered in.

 

[TLSnell1981]

My biggest concern is the NEXT big change, and so on, etc.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Nope, not upset. I'd be upset if they discontinued the AP discount or changed the booking windows (both of which they can do at any time).

Cyn

My sentiments exactly. I don't intend to sell. I bought all 3 contracts direct, and the only "perks" I really care about are the AP discount and the booking window.

 

[bicker]

Would contact DVC as well but it would be like talking to a "wall". The Member Satisfaction Team would tell us they are sorry about the change and that they will be sure to share our thoughts with management. As with other changes that we were not happy with, nothing would change.

The bottom line is DVC/Disney could care less about how its members feels about this recent change.

I disagree. I believe there is a quantum difference between:

• Not caring about how members feel; and
• Caring about how member feel and still not making the change you personally want them to make.

Remember that we each have our own objectives; not only Disney versus you as a DVC member, but also between DVC members. Just because you don't get your way doesn't mean that the process for arriving at the decision was in any way flawed. There simply might be other things that prevailed over your preferences.


Disclaimer: This posting crafted under the influence of surgical sedation.

 

[RayMusicCityUSA]

We haven't been members long enough, either (only since last August) to really have a feel what DVC was like in past years or when it began. We did attend the opening hoopla that accompanied OKW 'back in the day'.

Before we took the leap, we roamed the boards to get the feeling if we were making the right decision or not.

'Everything happens for a reason'. We went to MK as a result of the 'give a day get a day', stopped at the Saratoga DVC Center' on the way to the airport. We came away with the feeling that we were ready to buy direct to ensure us a hassle free purchase for pre paid Disney Vacation Villas that would stand the test of time for the next 50 years. We bought at BLT, stayed there for the first time in October and are thrilled with the location.

I think the changes to re-sales fell short. I think the whole re-sale market, renting points, seeing Christmas reservations going up on E-Bay, spec rentals, etc., not only cheapens the DVC image and product, but also makes it that much more difficult to book the vacation time that us 'ordinary folk' are looking for from DVC. I've seen some of the horror stories of people getting stood up by rentals or being taken advantage of through a re-sale gone bad.

Rant over.

 

[crisi]

I disagree. I believe there is a quantum difference between:

• Not caring about how members feel; and
• Caring about how member feel and still not making the change you personally want them to make.

Remember that we each have our own objectives; not only Disney versus you as a DVC member, but also between DVC members. Just because you don't get your way doesn't mean that the process for arriving at the decision was in any way flawed. There simply might be other things that prevailed over your preferences.


Disclaimer: This posting crafted under the influence of surgical sedation.

Even with the sedation, its a good post.

Its important to remember that when making decisions DVC has several constituencies to consider. Even within DVC membership, different members have different needs. For someone who didn't really trade and intends to hold their contract for life - this doesn't affect them at all. And frankly, those are the core Disney/DVC loyalists DVC needs to play to. They also need to play to those people who bought direct with the whole "and look, you can cruise!" sales pitch - that sadly hasn't been a reality for a lot of members over the past year since there are too many members who want to cruise on points. Additionally, they have shareholders, and their internal constituencies - like CRO and the Cruise Lines to keep happy.

Often in my job I listen to a lot of input, then make a decision. Always, there are different people who have different opinions on what we do. Eventually, I make a decision. And almost every time someone says "I didn't listen" because the decision didn't go their way. I promise you, I listen. I weigh the responses - and someone is not going to get their way. That doesn't mean I didn't listen. It means that your argument didn't end up winning out.

 

[nytimez]

It really doesn't bother me. I tell friends who are considering DVC not to consider it for those benefits, but only if they plan to use their membership at a DVC resort most of the time.

Should I ever need to sell my stake, I would expect someone purchasing it to take the same approach, for their own benefit, because it's the best way to use points.

This just ensures that they will.

As for the "value" of my ownership, I'm a vacationer -- not an investor. If I use my membership as I hope to, I feel I will have the value I purchased.

 

[com_op_2000]

When we bought in we considered it a vacation purchase. We use the DVC for vacations of all types. Over the years, we have considered ourselves to have made a great investment in our future vacations by ourselves and with family members. We never have and hopefully never will consider a sale of DVC, we will pass this along to our DDs. The changes do not affect us, so we have no reason to complain, and am actually happy for the changes so that we have less competition for reservations.

 

[Scott]

The big issue for me is the move towards ownership distinctions. Could Disney Vacation make a distinction between new owners and current owners? Seems to me if they give new owners more annual "perks" or even booking advantages, over current owners, then that would generate more direct sales. If that did happen, I'm wondering if those who currently have no problem with ownership distinctions might view this issue differently.
Scott

 

[Sammie]

The big issue for me is the move towards ownership distinctions. Could Disney Vacation make a distinction between new owners and current owners? Seems to me if they give new owners more annual "perks" or even booking advantages, over current owners, then that would generate more direct sales. If that did happen, I'm wondering if those who currently have no problem with ownership distinctions might view this issue differently.
Scott

Definitely and as more changes come to pass, I think you will see more upset and some of those will be the ones that are not upset about this first change.

I don't think the distinction will be current owners over new owners, as there have always been incentives to buy that are different, but it will be a teir situation based on points.

So yes if those with a higher number of points get booking advantages and better discounts on things such as the AP at the expense of those with less points, you will see much more headed discussions.

 

[maminnie]

I disagree. I believe there is a quantum difference between:

• Not caring about how members feel; and
• Caring about how member feel and still not making the change you personally want them to make.

Remember that we each have our own objectives; not only Disney versus you as a DVC member, but also between DVC members. Just because you don't get your way doesn't mean that the process for arriving at the decision was in any way flawed. There simply might be other things that prevailed over your preferences.
Disclaimer: This posting crafted under the influence of surgical sedation.

It isn't about me getting my way considering the decision effects so many of our fellow members. It simply is that DVC/Disney has purposely made a decision that will likely minimize the resale value of mine and fellow members owner interest. It really is that simple. IMHO they really don't care as long as it yields what they want as a business. But I believe what they sorely forgot is that every direct buyer is a potential resale buyer and if word possibly gets out, direct buyers may think twice if they know that their purchase price is immediately going to plummet quite significantly. In the end the whole thing may just backfire on them. I wonder what their response will be if asked about resale by one of their potential direct purchasers?? Loved to be present for that one!!!! I can't imagine paying in the 100's per point and not taking resale value into consideration.

The thing that is so discouraging is that so many fellow members won't even know that this is going on until after March 20th. They will discover what has happened at some point in the future and may then also find that their resale values have taken an unanticipated and unexpected nose dive. Pretty sad.

 

[Scott]

Definitely and as more changes come to pass, I think you will see more upset and some of those will be the ones that are not upset about this first change.

I don't think the distinction will be current owners over new owners, as there have always been incentives to buy that are different, but it will be a teir situation based on points.

So yes if those with a higher number of points get booking advantages and better discounts on things such as the AP at the expense of those with less points, you will see much more headed discussions.

So is it possible for them to make a decision that all direct buyers who purchase after a certain date will be given a 9 month booking window at other DVC reorts (I.e., their non home resorts)? It would certainly generate direct sales. I'm just wondering what their limits are.
Scott

 

[maminnie]

So is it possible for them to make a decision that all direct buyers who purchase after a certain date will be given a 9 month booking window at other DVC reorts (I.e., their non home resorts)? It would certainly generate direct sales. I'm just wondering what their limits are.
Scott

That is my understanding after reading many different posts on these boards and our DVC contract. It looks like they can do just about anything if we are reading things correctly. Some of the more seasoned, educated Disboards members could help us with this one.

This is what is a bit scarey about all of this even more so then resale values....who knows what else DVC/Disney will do to differentiate direct versus resale purchasers to benefit the Disney corporation at the owners expense. Keep in mind they could also differentiate between owners with different amounts of points and give advantages to those that own more. I think it may just be the beginning of more changes down the road. And remember they will tell us all that we members asked for these changes and "member enhancements". Rediculous....

 

[bumbershoot]

And if you already bought resale, you're full members because you're being grandfathered in.

Just wanted to repeat that. This change, right now, doesn't mess with previous re-sale owners and the value of their current, being-used, points. You can still enjoy your points just like I can (bought direct). (like being "underwater" with a mortgage...doesn't make a bit of difference, and shouldn't, unless you absolutely need to sell...only then does it make a difference...otherwise, enjoy the house that you agreed to buy at the price you did!)

The thing that is so discouraging is that so many fellow members won't even know that this is going on until after March 20th. They will discover what has happened at some point in the future and may then also find that their resale values have taken an unanticipated and unexpected nose dive. Pretty sad.

Don't be sad b/c people don't log into the member site and read the info sitting right there (I don't even have to scroll down to see the headline). That's no one's fault but their own.


But we didn't buy it to sell it. We bought it to use it. We've already gotten a huge amount of value from it, and we've only belonged for under 2 years.

 

[disneynutz]

I'm not really all that worried about this. I always figured I would rather just rent out my points to someone that wants to stay at WDW and then take the money and go where I want to go. In the long run I'd be ahead money wise and I'm not restricted to RCI, Disney Cruise, whatever. Kind of tough for DVC to stop this when they themselves do it...

It will be pretty hard to rent your points when the number of available rentals continues to increase. This last year has already seen a increase in the number of owners who have decided to rent their points.

Instead of the rental rate increasing in step with Disney's price increases, the rental rates are going down. At this rate the proceeds from renting won't cover the cost of dues and your can forget about recouping your purchase costs.

Bill

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

My biggest concern is the NEXT big change, and so on, etc.

And this is why this change should be a MAJOR concern to everyone.

HBC

 

[vicki_c]

Who are all these people who took resale values into consideration at all (or to a great extent) into their purchase decision? I never did - never was even the teeniest consideration at all. I really don't think I'm dumb or that unique in that way. So I don't see it affecting direct sales in a negative way (due to loss in resale value), and I don't think Disney does either, since that's the exact reason why they are doing it - to enhance direct purchases.

 

[crisi]

But we didn't buy it to sell it. We bought it to use it. We've already gotten a huge amount of value from it, and we've only belonged for under 2 years.

We bought it to use it, then probably sell it when we outgrew it. But the value came in the use. After ten years, if I sell it for $2 on eBay, I'll have gotten my value out.

 

[jana]

I find it nothing short of astonishing that there are so many people who just have the attitude " we had good use of it so I don't care my asset has unnecessarily been reduced in value" . Have we really become such a "throw away society" that simply because something has provided some service we are happy to consign it to the trash, even if it has a sizable intrinsic value? Or is it simply that people love Disney so much they will allow a sub division to take money away from them ( or their children) without a murmur, because to voice dissatisfaction would ruin the dream?

I guess we get the treatment and leadership we deserve.

Must admit, I just don't get it.

 

[vicki_c]

No, just that I never thought it would have any resale value, because timeshares don't. Any resale value that it ever did have would have been gravy to me. I plan on getting my money out of it by vacationing at Disney and once I break even, I will be very happy (well I'm very happy now even before my break even point).

DVC IS NOT AN INVESTMENT (or even an asset in my opinion). It is a pre-paid vacation plan and that's all it ever was.