The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

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Then let's have a do-over and stop this ridiculous "disenfranchising" BS and calls to seat the delegates.

We don't need voting machines or mail-vote schemes. We can do it the old-fashioned way. Print up some ballots and have people vote.
 
I was at a party Saturday night. Our little group has none each other over 20 years and we regulary get together.

A couple comes in and the husband looks like he's aged 20 years since I last saw him in December.

I get the whole story later on. They're going to lose their house. Foreclosure will start in a 2 months or so. How they got to this point is doozy.

Several years ago, their son had a brain tumor and had to have surgery. While the son was in intensive care, the father had a massive heart attack and had to had a quadruple bypass. Just as a preemptive strike for the "personal responsibility crowd", they had insurance. As is common with most policies, it is capped at $1,000,000 or so.

They get the bills. There was nearly $2,000,000 in hospital/surgical/drug bills. Their insurance only covered up to $1,000,000. They owed nearly $1,000,000 in bills.

They tried to work out a settlement. The various groups sued them and it cost them a fortune in legal bills. Finally, they declared bankruptcy/

Sure, they should've sold their house, but frankly, there is something obscene about forcing a family to sell their home because of medical bills. I know the "anti UHC" bunch doesn't grasp that concept and that wasn't for their benefit.

So they're trying to settle the bills, his business goes south, and she loses her job.

And they're a few months of losing their home. Their story is just one of millions.

The depression is coming only this time it will take all those $50,000 millionaire who've been voting for the Republicans. A president can't do anything? That was Hoover's excuse. The Republican party is still the party of Herbert Hoover.

Tell the generation that lived through the depression what FDR did for them. Tell them that no president can do anything about a depression. Then get out of the way as they laugh their ***-es off.

This is very sad.

Is the community able to help your friends out at all?
 
Not true at all.:sad2:

Hillary attended one fundraiser the night of the Primary, she never even stepped foot on Florida soil until AFTER the Primary was closed.
OBAMA was the ONLY candidate to actively campaign in Florida. He ran TV ads on Cable televison. With the excuse that cable is national Tv, nothing he can do.
BTW since the Florida Primary is over, Obama has not run any national cable ads.:rolleyes1

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080123/NEWS/801230668



This is true, however the DNC played right into his hands by discounting the DEMOCRAT vote. That will show those bad Republicans!:headache:

No, the Florida Democratic party played into the Republican hands. They could've scheduled their primary on the original date. They could've had a caucus. They didn't because they were too caught up in the fantasy of "making Florida count".

Yanno, I never did believe in ignoring a contract once you've signed it because you had buyers remorse. If someone doesn't like a contract, they can renegotiate and hope the other is interested. What you don't do is complain how utterly unfair the contract is that you signed in good faith and how the other party is treating you bad.

And that's what's happening. Clinton agree to abide by the rules. If she doesn't like the contract she signed, she can try and renegotiate. Or live with the contract she signed.

*generic you*
 
No, the Florida Democratic party played into the Republican hands. They could've scheduled their primary on the original date. They could've had a caucus. They didn't because they were too caught up in the fantasy of "making Florida count".

Yanno, I never did believe in ignoring a contract once you've signed it because you had buyers remorse. If someone doesn't like a contract, they can renegotiate and hope the other is interested. What you don't do is complain how utterly unfair the contract is that you signed in good faith and how the other party is treating you bad.

And that's what's happening. Clinton agree to abide by the rules. If she doesn't like the contract she signed, she can try and renegotiate. Or live with the contract she signed.

*generic you*

Luv, you are exactly right. You can't sign off on a contract, and then decide you'd like to tweek it to your advantage. Clinton knew the rules. Good grief, isn't she supposed to be a lawyer? :sad2:
 

No, the Florida Democratic party played into the Republican hands. They could've scheduled their primary on the original date. They could've had a caucus. They didn't because they were too caught up in the fantasy of "making Florida count".

Yanno, I never did believe in ignoring a contract once you've signed it because you had buyers remorse. If someone doesn't like a contract, they can renegotiate and hope the other is interested. What you don't do is complain how utterly unfair the contract is that you signed in good faith and how the other party is treating you bad.

And that's what's happening. Clinton agree to abide by the rules. If she doesn't like the contract she signed, she can try and renegotiate. Or live with the contract she signed.

*generic you*

Luv, you are exactly right. You can't sign off on a contract, and then decide you'd like to tweek it to your advantage. Clinton knew the rules. Good grief, isn't she supposed to be a lawyer? :sad2:

So whadda bout Obama breaking the rules and campaining in Florida?????
 
This is very sad.

Is the community able to help your friends out at all?

What many people don't know is that there is no "community" out there. Whatever programs there used to be have been either eliminated or cut to the bone to the point where they're meaningless.

We're trying to do what we can do as friends. My way of thinking is to tide them over until the depression gets so bad it is in the bank's interest to keep them in their home. This happend during the Great Depression when no one wanted extra real estate on their hands.

We're trying to tide them over for the next 6-12 months. With a little bit of luck and few prayers, maybe it will work.
 
So whadda bout Obama breaking the rules and campaining in Florida?????

One ad on a cable news station has now morphed into campaigning? C'mon, I've known you too long and you're too smart for this :goodvibes

At this point, it no longer matters. Those delegates will not be seated. If the candidates want those delegates to be seated, they're going to have to come up with a real plan and stop wasting time complaining about how unfair the other guy.

A pox on both their houses: I want new candidates. ;)
 
What many people don't know is that there is no "community" out there. Whatever programs there used to be have been either eliminated or cut to the bone to the point where they're meaningless.

We're trying to do what we can as friends. My way of thinking is to tide them over until the depression gets so bad it is in the bank's interest to keep them in their home. This happend during the Great Depression when no one wanted extra real estate on their hands.

We're trying to tide them over for the next 6-12 months. With a little bit of luck and few prayers, maybe it will work.

Wow...that's just so scary.

The other thing is, with costs of everything so high these days charitable donations are going down. Our food pantry demand is WAY up but our donations are WAY down. We don't have enough food to help everyone who needs it because the people who were donating are now finding themselves with less money left after they feed their own families and pay their own bills.
 
GOP Loyalists voting for Clinton:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

Many voting for Clinton to boost GOP
Seek to prolong bitter battle
By Scott Helman, Globe Staff | March 17, 2008

For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.

A sudden change of heart? Hardly.

Since Senator John McCain effectively sewed up the GOP nomination last month, Republicans have begun participating in Democratic primaries specifically to vote for Clinton, a tactic that some voters and local Republican activists think will help their party in November. With every delegate important in the tight Democratic race, this trend could help shape the outcome if it continues in the remaining Democratic primaries open to all voters.

Spurred by conservative talk radio, GOP voters who say they would never back Clinton in a general election are voting for her now for strategic reasons: Some want to prolong her bitter nomination battle with Barack Obama, others believe she would be easier to beat than Obama in the fall, or they simply want to register objections to Obama.

"It's as simple as, I don't think McCain can beat Obama if Obama is the Democratic choice," said Kyle Britt, 49, a Republican-leaning independent from Huntsville, Texas, who voted for Clinton in the March 4 primary. "I do believe Hillary can mobilize enough [anti-Clinton] people to keep her out of office."

Britt, who works in financial services, said he is certain he will vote for McCain in November.

About 1,100 miles north, in Granville, Ohio, Ben Rader, a 66-year-old retired entrepreneur, said he voted for Clinton in Ohio's primary to further confuse the Democratic race. "I'm pretty much tired of the Clintons, and to see her squirm for three or four months with Obama beating her up, it's great, it's wonderful," he said. "It broke my heart, but I had to."

Local Republican activists say stories like these abound in Texas, Ohio, and Mississippi, the three states where the recent surge in Republicans voting for Clinton was evident.

Until Texas and Ohio voted on March 4, Obama was receiving far more support than Clinton from GOP voters, many of whom have said in interviews that they were willing to buck their party because they like the Illinois senator. In eight Democratic contests in January and February where detailed exit polling data were available on Republicans, Obama received, on average, about 57 percent of voters who identified themselves as Republicans. Clinton received, on average, a quarter of the Republican votes cast in those races.

But as February gave way to March, the dynamics shifted in both parties' contests: McCain ran away with the Republican race, and Obama, after posting 10 straight victories following Super Tuesday, was poised to run away with the Democratic race. That is when Republicans swung into action.

Conservative radio giant Rush Limbaugh said on Fox News on Feb. 29 that he was urging conservatives to cross over and vote for Clinton, their bête noire nonpareil, "if they can stomach it."

"I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose," Limbaugh said. "They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch. And it's all going to stop if Hillary loses."

He added, "I know it's a difficult thing to do to vote for a Clinton, but it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need."

Limbaugh's exhortations seemed to work. In Ohio and Texas on March 4, Republicans comprised 9 percent of the Democratic primary electorate, more than twice the average GOP share of the turnout in the earlier contests where exit polling was conducted. Clinton ran about even with Obama among Republicans in both states, a far more favorable showing among GOP voters than in the early races.

Walter Wilkerson, who has chaired the Republican Party in Montgomery County, Texas, since 1964, said many local conservatives chose to vote for Clinton for strategic reasons.

"These people felt that Clinton would be maybe the easier opponent in the fall," he said. "That remains to be seen."

Wilkerson added, "We have not experienced any crossover of this magnitude since I can remember."

In the Mississippi primary last Tuesday, Republicans made up 12 percent of voters who took a Democratic ballot - their biggest proportion in any state yet - and they went for Clinton over Obama by a 3-to-1 margin.

John Taylor, the GOP chairman in Madison County, said he toured various precincts and witnessed Republican voters taking Democratic ballots to vote for Clinton.

"Some people there that I recognized voting said, 'Hey, I'm going to vote in this primary this year, right now. But don't worry, in November I'll be back,' " Taylor said. "They were going to do some damage if they could."

Another popular conservative radio host, Laura Ingraham, who had also encouraged voters to cast ballots for Clinton, crowed about her apparent success the day after Ohio and Texas voted.

"Without a doubt, Rush, and to a lesser extent me, had some effect on the Republican turnout," Ingraham told Fox News. "When you look at those exit polls, it is really quite striking."

Some political blogs have suggested that the influx of Clinton-voting Republicans prevented Obama from winning delegates he otherwise would have, by inflating Clinton's totals both statewide and in certain congressional districts. A writer for the liberal blog Daily Kos estimated that Obama could have netted an additional five delegates from Mississippi.

It is also possible, though perhaps unlikely, that enough strategically minded Republicans voted for Clinton in Texas to give her a crucial primary victory there: Clinton received roughly 119,000 GOP votes in Texas, according to exit polls, and she beat Obama by about 101,000 votes.

Not everyone casting ballots for Clinton did so primarily to sink her, however. Brent Henslee, 33, a Republican who works at a radio station in Waco, Texas, wanted to keep Clinton in the race to expose more about Obama, whom he sees as more "fluff than substance."

"I'm not buying into all the Obama-mania, is the main reason I did it," he said. "A lot of these people don't know a thing about this guy and they're crazy about him. And I thought that maybe keeping Hillary alive will just shed some more light on the guy."

Of the nine remaining major contests, four - Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Oregon, and South Dakota - have "closed" primaries, which means only Democrats can participate.

If Republicans and conservative independents continue their tactical voting, it may be more likely in Indiana, Montana, and Puerto Rico, which allow anyone to vote, and possibly in North Carolina and West Virginia, which open their primaries to Democrats and independent voters.

"If you are a Republican you could pull a Democrat ballot and vote for the Democrat presidential candidate you think will stand the least chance of beating McCain in the fall general election," the assistant editor of the Greene County Daily World, in southwestern Indiana, wrote in a blog post earlier this month.

Meanwhile, Clinton, despite trailing Obama in delegates, is projecting confidence about her chances as the nomination race careens toward the April 22 Pennsylvania primary. The morning after her big wins in Ohio and Texas, she was asked on Fox News whether she had a message for Limbaugh.

"Be careful what you wish for, Rush," she said with a grin.

Scott Helman can be reached at shelman@globe.com.
 
I was at a party Saturday night. Our little group has none each other over 20 years and we regulary get together.

A couple comes in and the husband looks like he's aged 20 years since I last saw him in December.

I get the whole story later on. They're going to lose their house. Foreclosure will start in a 2 months or so. How they got to this point is doozy.

Several years ago, their son had a brain tumor and had to have surgery. While the son was in intensive care, the father had a massive heart attack and had to had a quadruple bypass. Just as a preemptive strike for the "personal responsibility crowd", they had insurance. As is common with most policies, it is capped at $1,000,000 or so.

They get the bills. There was nearly $2,000,000 in hospital/surgical/drug bills. Their insurance only covered up to $1,000,000. They owed nearly $1,000,000 in bills.

They tried to work out a settlement. The various groups sued them and it cost them a fortune in legal bills. Finally, they declared bankruptcy/

Sure, they should've sold their house, but frankly, there is something obscene about forcing a family to sell their home because of medical bills. I know the "anti UHC" bunch doesn't grasp that concept and that wasn't for their benefit.

So they're trying to settle the bills, his business goes south, and she loses her job.

And they're a few months of losing their home. Their story is just one of millions.

The depression is coming only this time it will take all those $50,000 millionaire who've been voting for the Republicans. A president can't do anything? That was Hoover's excuse. The Republican party is still the party of Herbert Hoover.

Tell the generation that lived through the depression what FDR did for them. Tell them that no president can do anything about a depression. Then get out of the way as they laugh their ***-es off.

LuvDuke, I am very sorry for your friends... With my condition I could never have a policy that capped out at a million dollars, I've already exceeded that. Many people feel it will never happen to them, but to have it happen essentially twice in one go round with your friends, I'm just really sorry :sad2:
 
No, the Florida Democratic party played into the Republican hands. They could've scheduled their primary on the original date. They could've had a caucus. They didn't because they were too caught up in the fantasy of "making Florida count".

Yanno, I never did believe in ignoring a contract once you've signed it because you had buyers remorse. If someone doesn't like a contract, they can renegotiate and hope the other is interested. What you don't do is complain how utterly unfair the contract is that you signed in good faith and how the other party is treating you bad.

And that's what's happening. Clinton agree to abide by the rules. If she doesn't like the contract she signed, she can try and renegotiate. Or live with the contract she signed.

*generic you*

I just want to point out, it was reported last week that the bill in question (in Florida) that caused this mess was actually INTRODUCED by a Democrat :confused3 Yup, maybe the Republican's ran crazy with it, but a Democrat was the one that introduced it.... These legislators should be out there explaining, yet that legislator has yet to come forward.
 
Our friends are just one family of millions. This is going on all across the country. This depression will affect the middle-upper middle class.

IMO, this is the reason why I believe the Republicans are dead in the water come November. Obama can dress in a Playboy bunny costume and it won't make a difference. Clinton can be an exotic dancer for an hour and it won't make any difference.

Yesterday, it cost me $42+ to fill up my gas tank. I drive an 11-year old Mustang with a 15 gallon tank and it wasn't dry. How many people are having sticker shock just filling up their gas tanks to go to a job that may or may not be there for very long and then they lose their medical insurance?

The Republicans just don't get it. What the hell good is tax cuts if you haven't got a means to pay your bills, aka: A job.

What the hell is good is security if you aren't even secure in your own home due to medical bills after your insurance has paid the max?

If someone doesn't feel secure surrounded by their own 4 walls and what's on their table, a couple of nutjobs holed up in the mountains of Pakistan seem a long way off.

The best the Republicans can come up with is recycled Herbert Hoover BS and regurgitating the failed policies of the past.

Good luck selling tax cuts to people who've just lost their jobs and selling security to people who are losing their homes.
 
Our friends are just one family of millions. This is going on all across the country. This depression will affect the middle-upper middle class.

IMO, this is the reason why I believe the Republicans are dead in the water come November. Obama can dress in a Playboy bunny costume and it won't make a difference. Clinton can be an exotic dancer for an hour and it won't make any difference.

Yesterday, it cost me $42+ to fill up my gas tank. I drive an 11-year old Mustang with a 15 gallon tank and it wasn't dry. How many people are having sticker shock just filling up their gas tanks to go to a job that may or may not be there for very long and then they lose their medical insurance?

The Republicans just don't get it. What the hell good is tax cuts if you haven't got a means to pay your bills, aka: A job.

What the hell is good is security if you aren't even secure in your own home due to medical bills after your insurance has paid the max?

If someone doesn't feel secure surrounded by their own 4 walls and what's on their table, a couple of nutjobs holed up in the mountains of Pakistan seem a long way off.

The best the Republicans can come up with is recycled Herbert Hoover BS and regurgitating the failed policies of the past.

Good luck selling tax cuts to people who've just lost their jobs and selling security to people who are losing their homes.

I said this elsewhere this morning-it is not going to matter whether GW had anything to do with this economic mess or not-his party is going to have to answer for it.

When the famous "are you better off now" question comes up in November, anyone who thinks they're not better off is kicking the incumbant party to the curb.
 
When the famous "are you better off now" question comes up in November, anyone who thinks they're not better off is kicking the incumbant party to the curb.


Amen. :thumbsup2

What we have now is the product of the Hoover-like Republican economic policies at work. And it's just going to get worse.
 
Our friends are just one family of millions. This is going on all across the country. This depression will affect the middle-upper middle class.

IMO, this is the reason why I believe the Republicans are dead in the water come November. Obama can dress in a Playboy bunny costume and it won't make a difference. Clinton can be an exotic dancer for an hour and it won't make any difference.

Yesterday, it cost me $42+ to fill up my gas tank. I drive an 11-year old Mustang with a 15 gallon tank and it wasn't dry. How many people are having sticker shock just filling up their gas tanks to go to a job that may or may not be there for very long and then they lose their medical insurance?

The Republicans just don't get it. What the hell good is tax cuts if you haven't got a means to pay your bills, aka: A job.

What the hell is good is security if you aren't even secure in your own home due to medical bills after your insurance has paid the max?

If someone doesn't feel secure surrounded by their own 4 walls and what's on their table, a couple of nutjobs holed up in the mountains of Pakistan seem a long way off.

The best the Republicans can come up with is recycled Herbert Hoover BS and regurgitating the failed policies of the past.

Good luck selling tax cuts to people who've just lost their jobs and selling security to people who are losing their homes.

I said this elsewhere this morning-it is not going to matter whether GW had anything to do with this economic mess or not-his party is going to have to answer for it.

When the famous "are you better off now" question comes up in November, anyone who thinks they're not better off is kicking the incumbant party to the curb.

Amen, Amen!
 
I said this elsewhere this morning-it is not going to matter whether GW had anything to do with this economic mess or not-his party is going to have to answer for it.

When the famous "are you better off now" question comes up in November, anyone who thinks they're not better off is kicking the incumbant party to the curb.

Anyone remember that poll one of the resident righties put up a month or two ago asking "Are you better off now?" and the majority voted "yes"? Who do these people think they're kidding?
 
Anyone remember that poll one of the resident righties put up a month or two ago asking "Are you better off now?" and the majority voted "yes"? Who do these people think they're kidding?

I think they assume they are better off because they are making more money now than they did then. They don't realize how the rapidly increasing COL and the decline in the market has affected their standing.
 
Anyone remember that poll one of the resident righties put up a month or two ago asking "Are you better off now?" and the majority voted "yes"? Who do these people think they're kidding?

Um - I'm the one who put that poll up.

And yes - I was shocked by the responses........

I didn't use the words "financially better off," I guess......
 
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