The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[Honu]

I think this is good news for the party.

The best way out of this mess, with the party fairly intact, is for one of the candidates (either one) to pull way ahead in the primaries and be declared a winner. This way we aren't left to deal with the fallout/disillusionment that will occur in the fight over FL & MI votes or having the Super Delegates decide or override a close decision.

If endorsements would help that process, bring em on.

 

[chris1gill]

OK, what states are left to vote?

Maryland
DC
Virginia
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin
Rhode Island
Vermont
Ohio & Texas as well as Hawaii and the Virgin Islands... What's the schedule?

 

[JARNJ3]

The best way out of this mess, with the party fairly intact, is for one of the candidates (either one) to pull way ahead in the primaries and be declared a winner. This way we aren't left to deal with the fallout/disillusionment that will occur in the fight over FL & MI votes or having the Super Delegates decide or override a close decision.

If endorsements would help that process, bring em on.

Yes, I agree it would be for the best.

Clinton told Katie last night - if she were to lose (and she thinks she won't) she would go back to the Senate and support Barack 100%.

I think we'll know by TX\OH in March......

 

[eclectics]

The best way out of this mess, with the party fairly intact, is for one of the candidates (either one) to pull way ahead in the primaries and be declared a winner. This way we aren't left to deal with the fallout/disillusionment that will occur in the fight over FL & MI votes or having the Super Delegates decide or override a close decision.

If endorsements would help that process, bring em on.

I agree, but unlikely it will happen. Obama will probably win Virginia, DC, and Maryland. Hillary will take Texas and probably Ohio. We'll be back to square one with Hillary slightly ahead.

 

[chris1gill]

I agree, but unlikely it will happen. Obama will probably win Virginia, DC, and Maryland. Hillary will take Texas and probably Ohio. We'll be back to square one with Hillary slightly ahead.

I don't think Texas and Ohio are winner take all, same goes for Pennsylvania. She may win them, but her margins will have to be large...

I found that list of states coming up, there are plenty of them.... and plenty of delegates.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/primaries/democraticprimaries/index.html

Tuesday, February 12
District of Columbia Primary 37 delegates
Maryland Primary 99 delegates
Virginia Primary 101 delegates

Tuesday, February 19
Hawaii Caucus 29 delegates
Wisconsin Primary 92 delegates

Tuesday, March 4
Ohio Primary 161 delegates
Rhode Island Primary 32 delegates
Texas Primary 228 delegates
Vermont Primary 23 delegates

Saturday, March 8
Wyoming Caucus 18 delegates

Tuesday, March 11
Mississippi Primary 40 delegates

Tuesday, April 22
Pennsylvania Primary 188 delegates

Saturday, May 3
Guam Other 9 delegates

Tuesday, May 6
Indiana Primary 84 delegates
North Carolina Primary 134 delegates

Tuesday, May 13
West Virginia Primary 39 delegates

Tuesday, May 20
Kentucky Primary 60 delegates
Oregon Primary 65 delegates

Tuesday, June 3
Montana Primary 24 delegates
South Dakota Primary 23 delegates

Saturday, June 7
Puerto Rico Caucus 63 delegates

 

[lilyv]

As close as this race is, how does it benefit Clinton to continue to refuse to release her tax returns? Wouldn't it be better to just be open?

 

[NewJersey]

As close as this race is, how does it benefit Clinton to continue to refuse to release her tax returns? Wouldn't it be better to just be open?

They've always resisted that and their latest claim is that they'll release it after the primary.

I'll be standing out on a busy commuter route near my house tomorrow morning waving Obama signs - I hope the wind chill isn't at 4 degrees like it was this morning. eek!

 

[lilyv]

They've always resisted that and their latest claim is that they'll release it after the primary.

I'll be standing out on a busy commuter route near my house tomorrow morning waving Obama signs - I hope the wind chill isn't at 4 degrees like it was this morning. eek!

Hope you have lots of positive response!!

 

[Honu]

Did anyone hear Michelle Obama speak on Larry King tonight? I heard about half the interview. I was impressed with her knowledge, poise and answers. She herself seems to be incredibly grounded, or that was my sense.

I have not heard her speak in the past, so maybe this is news or (not) to others, but I was impressed with her.

Yep. I also watched her speech from LA on YouTube. She is one impressive lady alright.

 

["Got Disney"]

Here are some things that Obama has done...he to is a politician and is doing as politicians do...He is not perfect in his campaining.


Sen. Obama Radio Ad Falsely Claims His Health Care Plan Provides "Universal Coverage"

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Sen. Obama is blanketing the airwaves in the Maryland/Virginia/DC area with a radio ad falsely claiming that his health care plan provides "universal coverage":

NARRATOR: Barack Obama. An economic plan that jumpstarts the economy, with tax cuts for middle class families and seniors. A health plan that lowers costs by $2500 for a typical family and provides universal coverage.​

Top independent health care experts have concluded that Sen. Obama's plan is not universal and would leave at least 15 million people without coverage. Leaving so many people out will drive up costs for everyone.
Listen to the ad HERE.
UPDATE: Sen. Obama repeated his false claim at a rally in Baltimore today:

"That's why I put forward a plan that says everybody will get health care that's as good as I have as a member of Congress." [Sen. Obama rally in Baltimore, MD, 2/11/08]​

 

["Got Disney"]

Top Obama Strategist Axelrod on Superdelegates

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From this morning on NBC:

LAUER: Let me ask you about superdelegates. A lot of discussion about the role they're going to play in all this by the time it's over and the debate being whether they should vote out of loyalty to a candidate, particularly if they're elected officials, or whether they should vote the way their state or district votes.
So, when it comes to Senators John Kerry and Senator Ted Kennedy, should they vote for had Barack Obama because they've endorsed him or should they vote for Hillary Clinton because the state of Massachusetts voted for Hillary Clinton?
AXELROD: I think that the role of the superdelegate is to act as, sort of, a party elder. These are elected officials from across the country and they're supposed to exercise their judgment as to what would be best for the party. And as they look at this, they need to decide who would be the strongest candidate for the party…
LAUER: David, you're not answering. Should those two senators vote for Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton?
AXELROD: I think they and all the superdelegates should vote according to what they think is best for the party and the country. And I think that we need the strongest possible candidate against John McCain…
​

 

["Got Disney"]

Sen. Obama Speech in Seattle, WA, Contains Misleading Attacks on Hillary

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Sen. Obama distorted Hillary’s record in a speech in Seattle, WA today. The first distortion was on diplomacy. Sen. Obama said:

"Early in this campaign, I got in an argument with Sen. Clinton because I said I would meet not just with our friends, but with our enemies. Not just with leaders we like, but leaders we detested and despised. And I was told, 'oh no, you can't do that.' And I said, 'watch me.' Because I remember what John F. Kennedy said. He said, 'you should never negotiate out of fear, but you should never fear to negotiate.'" [Sen. Obama rally in Seattle, WA, 2/8/08]
​

This is a distortion. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for pre-committing to a personal meeting in his first year with "with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea." She never said that a president should only meet with America's friends. She also promised vigorous diplomatic efforts with all countries, friend and foe. Read more here.
Next, Sen. Obama makes false claims when comparing himself and Hillary to Sen. McCain.

"If I'm having a debate with John McCain, he won't be able to say, 'well you supported the war, too,' because I didn't. He won't be able to say, 'you gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran,' because I haven't." [Sen. Obama rally in Seattle, WA, 2/8/08]
​

Let’s address Sen. Obama’s allegations one at a time.
First: Sen. Obama begins by criticizing Hillary on Iraq. Sen. Obama does not mention that -- with the exception of Hillary's opposition to the promotion of Iraq war architect Gen. George Casey -- Sen. Obama and Hillary have identical voting records on the Iraq war. Read more here.
Second: Sen. Obama then misrepresents Hillary’s position on Iran. In fact, Hillary was one of the earliest and staunchest opponents of Bush’s saber rattling on Iran, and spoke out on the issue back in February:

Hillary made a floor speech declaring that President Bush must get authorization from Congress before taking military action against Iran. [Clinton Release, 2/14/07]
Hillary co-sponsored the Webb bill prohibiting use of funds for military action in Iran without Congressional authorization. [Clinton Release, 10/01/07]
​

Sen. Obama missed the vote he is now using to attack Hillary. He issued a release 9 hours later and co-sponsored a similar bill in April. The bill was also supported by Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL), a staunch anti-war Bush critic and prominent Obama supporter. Read more here and here.

 

["Got Disney"]

Sen. Obama Blasts Cheney's Energy Policy, Doesn't Mention He Voted For It
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“It would have been nice if Senator Obama discovered his newfound concerns about the vice-president’s role in making energy policy prior to voting for the Bush-Cheney energy bill in 2005. Sen. Clinton is focused on delivering solutions to the energy crisis and is ready to implement a detailed plan to make America energy independent when she is President.” – Clinton Spokesman Phil Singer

Today, Sen. Obama blasted the energy policy developed in secret by Vice President Cheney:

Washington's failure is the failure of a president who spent most of his time in office denying the very existence of global warming – of a Vice President who developed America's energy policy with a secret task force that opened the door to oil lobbyists and then shut it to every other point of view.
Sen. Obama failed to mention that he voted for Dick Cheney's energy policy, the 2005 Energy Bill.

 

[NewJersey]

Hope you have lots of positive response!!

Me too! I was driving on the Beltway yesterday and I have an Obama bumper sticker inside of my window leaning against the glass (I hate putting stickers on my car ) and I got so many beeps, thumbs up, and smiles.

Yep. I also watched her speech from LA on YouTube. She is one impressive lady alright.

She is going to make a wonderful First Lady. She is so articulate and down to earth!

 

[NewJersey]

How about Clinton downplaying Obama's wins in caucus states saying they don't represent the voters? Can the woman ever just accept a loss? How about her "win" (even though Obama took more delegates) out of Nevada - should we downplay that win of hers since it doesn't represent the voters?

Obama graciously congratulates Clinton after her wins, yet she is always full of excuses on her end.

 

[Planogirl]

Some of you should read through this like I just did. The sniping on both sides is kind of amusing if unfortunate.

 

["Got Disney"]

To those of you that are Obama supporters could you please stop coming in here and being Hillary haters....please take it to the conservative boards where they want to hear it. We do not come in here and bash Obama and as you have seen above he has his moments also. this is the first time I have posted anything about Obama only to prove a point. I will not do it again.

He is a politician not GOD and he is not holy er than God either. His wife is not perfect...have you seen the interview that she talked about how selfish she was and did not want Barack to run and also had no interest in getting involved as being first lady because she did not want all that work but he wanted to run so she agreed after all....

I like her and she is a smart woman also but some of you Obama followers are acting like they are the saviors.

When they did a poll tonight on CNN asking for the candidates to tell them one thing that Obama has accomplishe in his time in politics they could not come up with a thing...well one said that he has accomplished being first black candidate...

so please just come in here and discuss Obama with out cutting on Hillary.

We are all here because we agree we want a Dem in office. I will vote for Obama if he wins only because of his issues.

I would like to see this thread get back to the way it was. Dems coming together.....

 

["Got Disney"]

Here is a new thread for anyone that wants to discuss Hillary with a smile...and discuss what is going on about her.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1718915

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Ok, pretend this is your mother speaking. STOP arguing! This is the NO DEBATE thread for liberals isn't it? I'd like to ask the Obama folks to stop posting anti-Clinton stuff and the Clinton folks to stop posting anti-Obama stuff here. If this thread gets much worse we're going to end up getting our own thread closed.

We're all liberals. Let's stop circling the wagons and shooting inward, please. Post as much positive about your own candidate as you wish but PLEASE STOP posting negative stuff about the other candidate - unless that candidate is a republican, of course.

Seriously, the beating up on each other's candidate isn't going to make anyone 'see the light'. Tell me something wonderful about your candidate.

 

[Charade]

I had a terrible nightmare last night.

Hillary was elected president and made Bill the VP.

On Jan 21 she resigned.

And then Bill made her the VP.