The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[JARNJ3]

It's interesting how those who say they have a problem voting for Hillary get chewed up on here but you hold the same feeling somewhat.

I could vote for Hillary who knows, but I'll have to be really convinced to do so.

Its just a recent feeling I've had - I've stated many posts ago - I can understand the Hillary "discomfort" - not the hatred though - if you're a Dem.

 

[NewJersey]

OK, I get it, you don't trust her, but who would you vote for if she won the nomination?

I have reservations about Obama. I think he's extremely naive and will get his head handed to him in Washington. I also thing a lot of his idealism just won't transfer well into actual legislation. However, if he gets the nomination I will vote for him. The alternatives are just too horrible to contemplate. It really makes me wonder why so many Obama supporters do not seem to be able to say the same thing.

Why does that necessarily mean it's a reflection on us that we would have a serious problem voting for her - could it be a reflection on her?

 

[profdsny]

I could vote for Hillary who knows, but I'll have to be really convinced to do so.

4 more years of a Republican White House. Hows' that for a reason?

 

[NewJersey]

Its just a recent feeling I've had - I've stated many posts ago - I can understand the Hillary "discomfort" - not the hatred though - if you're a Dem.

I'm a registered Democrat, but more of an Independent (quite conservative on the fiscal issues actually).

 

[punkin]

Why does that necessarily mean it's a reflection on us that we would have a serious problem voting for her - could it be a reflection on her?

Could be. I don't want to argue or minimize your feelings. I just wonder why you (generic you here) would think a republican in office would be better that Hillary.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Kansas had their first Presidential caucuses on Tuesday. My son said there were 2200 people crammed in the dirt-floored horse arena at the Douglas County Fairgrounds! The totals were Obama 1822, Clinton 385 by the way.

 

[NewJersey]

4 more years of a Republican White House. Hows' that for a reason?

I'm just sick of voting against someone instead of for someone - it gets disheartening. And being a younger voter, I guess I'm still idealistic.

 

[JARNJ3]

Ok my last post of the night - I am exhausted!!! But chatting with you all is so much fun!!!

More than ever - I pray it ends up Clinton\Obama .........

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/06/who-won-super-tuesday.aspx

Who Won Super Tuesday?

It’s hard to say, but if you put a gun in my head, I’d say John McCain and (very slightly) Hillary Clinton, but the elections revealed weaknesses in McCain and in both of the leading Democratic candidates. McCain blunted Mitt Romney’s challenge, but he failed consistently to win over conservative voters. Hillary Clinton won the big states she had to win, and arrested Barack Obama’s momentum, but she is going to have problems with white male voters. Obama is having trouble with white working-class voters and Latinos. Here is a rundown.

McCain beat Romney in California--that’s the end of Romney. But McCain continues to depend on moderate, non-evangelical Republicans for his victories. In California, conservatives made up 62 percent of the primary electorate; McCain only won 30 percent of them. In Tennessee, 73 percent of the voters were conservatives; McCain won 22 percent. In Missouri, 65 percent were conservatives; McCain won 25 percent. In these states, McCain failed to win a majority of Republicans. And he might face a revolt of these conservatives in the fall. They won’t vote for a Democrat, but they might not vote at all.

One group that is clearly dissatisfied with McCain are Republican evangelicals. In Tennessee, which Huckabee won, 73 percent of the primary voters described themselves as born-again Christians. McCain won 29 percent of these voters. In Missouri, 54 percent of voters described themselves this way; McCain won 24 percent. The other group that doesn’t like McCain is Republicans who think illegal immigration is the most important issue. In California, 30 percent of the Republicans thought it was; 23 percent voted for Republicans; in Tennessee 25 percent thought it was the most important. Only 21 percent went for McCain. It’s not clear how McCain can win these voters over.

Hillary Clinton won most of the big primary states, including California and Massachusetts. Obama won several important states, including Missouri and Connecticut, and, perhaps, more delegates, but many of his victories came in states like Georgia or Alabama that Democrats will not win in November or in caucus states dominated by left-wing activists who are unrepresentative either of the party or the fall electorate.

Clinton got pasted among blacks, but she should be able to win back those voters in November. What’s more troubling is her vote among white males and among independents. In California, Clinton lost white men by a whopping 52 to 34 percent. She lost white independents by 58 to 30 percent. In California, 6.5 percent of those voters who didn’t vote for Clinton said that gender of the candidate was “an important factor.” One must assume that the actual percentage is higher (voters don’t like to admit to prejudice) and that many of those voters who would not want to vote for a woman, but who potentially could vote for a Democrat, did not vote at all in the primaries, but will be around in the general election.

Obama, as I previously noted, had trouble with white working-class voters. In New Jersey, which a Democrat pretty much will have to win in November, Obama won only 31 percent of the white vote. Over 11 percent of those who voted against Obama (a group that might also include some Latinos) said that race was an important factor in their vote. Here, too, one must assume that the actual percentage is higher and that it would be even higher among voters in a general election. Democrats can win a state like Connecticut without winning these voters, but it won’t win most of the big Middle Atlantic and Midwestern states without them.

If the economy plummets, and Iraq goes up in flames, or if there is a conservative revolt against McCain, then Clinton or Obama could win with some ease in November, but if conditions are muddier, and if McCain is able to win over the Republican base, then the Democrats could be in trouble. McCain should be able to hold the Deep South and much of the Southwest against a Democrat. He will do well among Latinos in the Southwest (especially, perhaps, against Obama). In states like Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico, he could build a coalition of Republicans, independents, and a share of Latinos.

Democrats will have to win the Far West, the Middle West, the Northeast, and the Middle Atlantic states, and perhaps pick off a border state like Arkansas or Tennessee. White working-class voters make up a majority in many of the key Midwestern and Middle Atlantic states. If a Democrat can’t win a majority of these voters in a state like Pennsylvania, Missouri, or Ohio, they’ll have trouble winning the election. And as February 5 indicated, both Clinton and Obama are going to have trouble with these voters. Who would have more trouble? My feeling is that it’s a standoff. Hillary has less of a handicap than Obama, but she is not his equal as a politician.

 

["Got Disney"]

How about 100 years more in Iraq ...talk about our country in debt????

 

[NewJersey]

Could be. I don't want to argue or minimize your feelings. I just wonder why you (generic you here) would think a republican in office would be better that Hillary.

I don't think you are minimizing it - you are just trying to understand it. Ask me in a few months from now, if she is the nominee. Probably a better indication of how I feel.

Kansas had their first Presidential caucuses on Tuesday. My son said there were 2200 people crammed in the dirt-floored horse arena at the Douglas County Fairgrounds! The totals were Obama 1822, Clinton 385 by the way.

WOW! Great showing by the Kansas democrats. That's more people than voted in my old town in NJ for the Democrats. (1411 voted, 771 of which went to Clinton).

 

[punkin]

I'm a registered Democrat, but more of an Independent (quite conservative on the fiscal issues actually).

I am also rather fiscally conservative (University of Chicago economics degree will do that to you) and I like Hillary. Yes, I disagree with her on some issues (for example her proposed stimulus package ) but overall, I think she is capable and pragmatic. I see the socialist label bandied about and I just don't get it. We've been semi-socialist since FDR.

 

["Got Disney"]

I'm just sick of voting against someone instead of for someone - it gets disheartening. And being a younger voter, I guess I'm still idealistic.

just curious how old are you?

 

[NewJersey]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23042818]just curious how old are you?[/QUOTE]

24 - not sure if you thought I was 12 or something.

 

[punkin]

Ok my last post of the night - I am exhausted!!! But chatting with you all is so much fun!!!

More than ever - I pray it ends up Clinton\Obama .........

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/06/who-won-super-tuesday.aspx

Good night.

 

["Got Disney"]

24 - not sure if you thought I was 12 or something.

No never thought that just curious. Are you a college student?

 

[JARNJ3]

Ok I lied - one post.

It just occurred to me tonight that Barack Obama borrowed his campaign slogan "Yes We Can" from someone.....

Are you ready for it .........






Bob the Builder, Can he Build it? Bob the Builder - Yes we can!!!!!!

 

[punkin]

24 - not sure if you thought I was 12 or something.

That's why you can stay up at this hour and still make sense when you type.

 

["Got Disney"]

Ok I lied - one post.

It just occurred to me tonight that Barack Obama borrowed his campaign slogan "Yes We Can" from someone.....

Are you ready for it .........






Bob the Builder, Can he Build it? Bob the Builder - Yes we can!!!!!!

Ahhh now youve ruined it for me ...every time I hear him say that that is going to come into my mind. I was trying to figure out where I had heard that before but was thinking a song or something...

 

[DISUNC]

I'm just sick of voting against someone instead of for someone - it gets disheartening. And being a younger voter, I guess I'm still idealistic.

Welcome to adulthood whippersnapper!

Voting for someone you truly believe in, is nice. Just aint gonna happen!
My first presidential election I voted John B Anderson. I too once voted for idealism. Didnt work then...wont work now!

I am OLD and never voted out of LOVE. It's either "Who I can live with?" "I have to vote for A to keep B out of the pic" or "MO". As in eeny meeny miny mo!

 

["Got Disney"]

24 - not sure if you thought I was 12 or something.

I am 50 and have been around voting for awhile so I tend to be a little more cynical than you have had a chance to be yet Feel blessed for that.

I have listened to candidates for so many years and have heard so many promises that after awhile you just want issues and facts and how it will get paid for. Have heard all the hoopla and inspiration.

If I was younger I have no doubt my first vote would be for Obama....

I like him and think he will do a good job but my issue is more with experience at a time of war and the problems in the middle east and being a nurse ...Health care!!!!

To many years I have seen the polls have no young voters and am so happy to see them all come out no matter who they vote for