The Duggars-Tuesday Night

[Gumbo4x4]

No one is lamenting they don't get to experience sex, drugs, etc., though some of those, I do think it's sad.

They don't get to experience education, making choices, trying different things, actually experiencing the world, having the opportunity to go out with friends they don't get to make instead of being parents to their siblings and maids for their parents.

And on the flip side, many many children won't get to experience the kind of life the Duggars have. So, in that respect, they're neither under or overprivileged when it comes to their "life experiences".

How are they going to be self-sufficient? How are they going to be productive in any way but producing more children who also won't be educated, won't give back to the world, etc.?

I think that's a pretty unfair assumption. And on the flip side of that, I know plenty of highly educated, self-sufficient people who give back to the World exactly "squat".

 

[cabanafrau]

No one is lamenting they don't get to experience sex, drugs, etc., though some of those, I do think it's sad.

They don't get to experience education, making choices, trying different things, actually experiencing the world, having the opportunity to go out with friends they don't get to make instead of being parents to their siblings and maids for their parents.

How are they going to be self-sufficient? How are they going to be productive in any way but producing more children who also won't be educated, won't give back to the world, etc.?

It's so fascinating to me that it's acceptable to judge the Duggars for living their lives committed to their faith, supporting themselves, with several of the children traveling around the world on mission trips(obviously not trying different things or experiencing the world there, not to mention zero educational opportunity in doing so), growing up learning from an early age how to take care of their own basic living needs, being home schooled and no indications that anyone is being held against their will. All things many of the early pilgrims came to the new world to have an opportunity to do.

On the flip side it would be absolutely unacceptable to pass judgment or express an opinion on a family living on public assistance who continued to have more children, and often even a second generation of children with no real attempts to become self sufficient. I'm not suggesting for a minute we shouldn't have a social safety net. I just find it more than a little ironic and actually frightening that we as a society seem to be ready to veto our neighbors' freedom to choose their lifestyle based on faith all the while required to fund other lifestyles in silence.

 

[Coconut36]

Abuse? Really? I have to disagree. First off, you're presupposing a lot here. Mainly that these kids aren't allowed outside to see the world. Do you know that? Do you live with them 24/7? Do you know all of the people they interact with? Are you privy to their daily schedules?

What do you define as "experiencing some of the real world"? Living in a college dorm? Going to frat parties? Spending four years in college and then graduating only to find zero jobs in your field? Would you feel better if you saw Jana on the pregnant teen moms shows?

Pregnant teen mom is a ridiculous extreme here. Experiencing the real world means just that..being able to make choices and decisions outside of what your parents tell you to do, being able to meet people that are different from you (or outside the bubble created by your parents), being able to make your own decisions and choices in life, having life experiences (a job, education, friends) outside of that small circle of people..not following what your parents dictated you must do...one doesn't have to drink, party..even go to college to experience the "real world".

ETA-My only "issue" with the Duggars is I am not sure the children realize they have a choice outside of what they have been told is "the" way. They have no exposure to others who don't think exactly as they do and possibly don't know any other way to be. Most kids grow up being exposed to a wide range of beliefs, people, thoughts, ideas..etc and form their own choices in life based on that..the Duggar children don't get that opportunity (and then you have the girls being forced to raise their siblings thing..hate that). All that said..if the choice to no go to college or the choice to not have outside experiences is genuinely their choice then that is their choice..we don't all want the same things in life and what one Duggar kid wants vs another could be different and isn't worth vilifying them for it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Experiencing the real world means just that..being able to make choices and decisions outside of what your parents tell you to do, being able to meet people that are different from you (or outside the bubble created by your parents), being able to make your own decisions and choices in life, having life experiences (a job, education, friends) outside of that small circle of people..not following what your parents dictated you must do...

Sounds like you could be talking about the Kennedys

 

[Coconut36]

Sounds like you could be talking about the Kennedys

Well we all know that the Duggars are not unique is keeping their kids within a certain "group" or religion or for the parents deciding what path the children "must" take(there are plenty of non famous families that dictate college choices, career paths..etc for their kids..not healthy for them to do it either)..they just happen to be a public example of it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Well we all know that the Duggars are not unique is keeping their kids within a certain "group" or religion or for the parents deciding what path the children "must" take(there are plenty of non famous families that dictate college choices, career paths..etc for their kids..not healthy for them to do it either)..they just happen to be a public example of it.

Admittedly, their existence is one I find odd. I don't however think they're in any worse of a bubble than many other folks who seem to think of themselves as "Worldly", particularly now that I read they've been doing mission trips overseas. FWIW, I've never watched an episode of their show, so take my opinion with a grain of salt on this one

 

[VickiVM]

I don't have a problem with the Duggars per say, but I do worry about those kids when they grow up. Its been great for them to have 20 kids, because Papa duggar has the financial resources from old family money. I see those kids and think about them replicating the same family structure with much more limited resources and I just see them being set up for failure.

I mean, Josh seems like a nice kid and all, but how is he going to provide for 20 kids being a used car salesman? The house they are living in was given to him and Anna by his parents, are his parents planning on giving the capital investment for a company start-up and a house to all their male children?

It just seems unsustainable to me. They may not be on govt assistance now, but some of those kids will be in the future if they follow the same pattern.

I haven't seen any indication that such scenarios are destined to play out.

 

[Coconut36]

I haven't seen any indication that such scenarios are destined to play out.

I think it depends on what professions they enter into. It's a valid point that a used car salesman in general does NOT make enough to sustain/support a family of 20 kids (22 people total) without help. Right now help is coming in the form of Mama and Daddy Duggar..nothing wrong with that but unless they subsidize all their children odds are small that each one of them can go on and support and maintain a family of that size as well although it would depend on what they end up doing for a living..right now at least one of them is in a career that will not provide the means to support a huge family..the question to me will be if they limit their family sized based on their income level/ability to support them or not..it's entirely possible they will and will not have 20 kids like Mom/Dad did.

 

[cornflake]

I suppose it would be more self-sufficient if they were on welfare then? Would that qualify as experiencing the real world?

This family are raising their kids to be responsible. Case in point, look at Josh and Anna. Before he married her, he had a stable job AND an actual home to bring her to.

Why are you supposing they're not educated? Because they didn't go to a traditional college? Or is it because they were homeschooled? For reference, here are Arkansas' state requirements in order to homeschool your children:

http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Arkansas.pdf

Notice that curriculum and intent must be filed every single year. The children have to submit to standardized testing every single year as well. So how are they uneducated?

How are these the only choices? No, they'd be self-sufficient if they had actual educations and jobs.

Josh's "job"and home were both provided by JimBob, it's not like he went out and got hired someplace and worked at a real job and saved up to buy a home.

I've seen his writing. It's abominable. I've heard them speak. The younger kids are "taught" by the older girls, who were "taught" by Michelle, who is not the brain trust of our nation or well educated herself to teach.

None of them have gone to college. If that's someone's choice, fine, but it's not as if they have a lot of options. They don't seem to have any options because the girls have to raise their siblings, take care of the house, chores, etc.,

The difference between this mess and a family in a cycle of poverty is that they're doing this entirely by choice and force.

 

[StitchFanZ]

I thought there was a show or something on the older kids working on college. http://******************/article/six-duggar-children-from-19-kids-counting-begin-college-studies

 

[cornflake]

I presume that's the College Plus thing. It's not college, it's tutoring to a very basic-level standardized test, the CLEP, that most colleges offer to high school seniors they've accepted. Most schools will let you maybe opt out of a few basic prereqs if you pass some CLEPs. I took everything I could and got out of everything possible and it was like a couple hours of standardized tests, I think an essay and I got to skip three basic intro classes - that's the max my school allows.

The College Plus thing found the like, one school in the universe that lets you CLEP most of your classes, so you don't actually have to go learn anything or take any actual classes (where you might learn crazy ideas like evolution or what the Founding Fathers actually said [again, I've read some things Josh has written]).

Apparently, some of them are doing that, to not get a college education but get credits toward a degree at this one school by taking little standardized tests that the website coaches them on.

 

[disykat]

Well we all know that the Duggars are not unique is keeping their kids within a certain "group" or religion or for the parents deciding what path the children "must" take(there are plenty of non famous families that dictate college choices, career paths..etc for their kids..not healthy for them to do it either)..they just happen to be a public example of it.

I agree with you, but I don't know that people DO know that. We all raise our children the way we see fit. We all try to provide what WE think are the best opportunities for our kids. Most of us want certain things for our kids. That doesn't mean we'd disown them if they went a different way.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The difference between this mess and a family in a cycle of poverty is that they're doing this entirely by choice and force.

That cycle of poverty is often entirely by choice as well. The difference I've seen is that children who have what most of us would consider an absurd # of siblings is that those who come from a traditional family tend to do quite well for themselves despite the implied hardship of a large family, while those who come from unwed teen mothers are bound to repeat the cycle.

 

[CandleontheWater]

I do applaud the kids for having some future goals, but I don't realistically see the girls become certified nurse-midwives. It is actually pretty involved to become a medically licensed midwife, I have a friend doing it right now. You have to take many, many nursing classes, which mean lots of science. I'm thinking that the girls who were taught "science" like people lived with dinosaurs are not going to have the educational foundation to handle that level of scholastic work.

If they are interested in attending homebirths and the like, without getting properly licensed, that is a hobby, not a career.

Same goes for the kids and firefighting, right now they volunteer with the fire department. That is all well and good, but it is still just a hobby until they are accepted into the firefighter academy and receive the rigorous training necessary to move from hobby to career. Oh yeah, and the paycheck.

I know that the second oldest boy has a "business" towing cars. Once again the start up capital was provided by papa duggar, and he does not seem all the serious about growing and building his business. I think we can all understand that a new business is something that needs to be worked at, he needs to be taking the time to build a client base and putting the leg work in to make it successful, however, we see this young man all over the country going on trips with the clan all the time, and not focusing his energy on his new business.

Even if he does manage to become a firefighter, supporting a family of 15+ individuals on a firefighters income would be next to impossible.

I'm really doubting that any of the kids intend on limiting their family size, they've said over and over again that they will put it in "Gods hands". It appears to be a huge facet of their family life and their particular take on religion.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Even if he does manage to become a firefighter, supporting a family of 15+ individuals on a firefighters income would be next to impossible.

I'm really doubting that any of the kids intend on limiting their family size, they've said over and over again that they will put it in "Gods hands". It appears to be a huge facet of their family life and their particular take on religion.

Well, a lot of people go into marriage thinking one thing & wind up with something else. I used to date a gal who way into her 20's was sure she'd have 6-8 kids. She ended up with TWO.

That said, I have seen so many very, very large families in my area get by on a single blue-collar paycheck (and a union firefighter is a pretty darn good paying job with a ridiculously good pension, at least around here). I have no idea how, because I can't imagine doing it. But, they make it work. We have a LOT of Catholics around here.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I saw the episode last night and they didn't seem any better or worse than any other group of sisters would be It's kind of a nosy question, they aren't used to answering them, although they probably wonder themselves. I think any young teen girls would be kind of skittish talking about marriage and babies and stuff.

 

[Buckalew11]

I saw the episode last night and they didn't seem any better or worse than any other group of sisters would be It's kind of a nosy question, they aren't used to answering them, although they probably wonder themselves. I think any young teen girls would be kind of skittish talking about marriage and babies and stuff.

I agree with you. I didn't see this episode though. I can only imagine what I would have said at 14, 15, 16, 17, 18... I didn't even want kids & I wasn't so sure about marriage (Heck, I wasn't so sure about marriage when I was walking down the aisle. ) Thank God my parents didn't do a reality show about owning a motel or something.

 

[TomorrowlandFamily]

Originally Posted by CandleontheWater
Its been great for them to have 20 kids, because Papa duggar has the financial resources from old family money.

Wow I didn't know they had old money! Explains a lot!

 

[TomorrowlandFamily]

I am just so happy that one wants to break away from the cult!!! Good luck to Jinger- you go girl!!!!!

freejinger.org

This site REALLY wants the Duggar children to leave the family.

 

[runwad]

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