The Case Against College Education

[castleview]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1967580,00.html

Thoughts? Mine: There are many professions that don't require a degree and many kids not suited for traditional college. Education for the sake of education is fine - actually, it's good - but to take on that much debt is ridiculous. I would hope this is a wakeup call for universities to get their acts together and stop bilking students for all they can get. Just my opinion.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I have been in agreement with this thought pattern for a long time. The notion that anyone than can go to college should go to college is just silly...

 

[Christine]

I agee with this article. Problem is that the "mindset" has been around for so many years now that you can't get hired for some of those positions that don't require a degree unless you have one.

Until that changes, kids will still feel the pressure to go so they can get that piece of paper just to get an interview.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree!!!!

I do, however, believe that there are many 'educational snobs' who would be quick to condemn you for the mere utterance of such words.

When my husband sees somebody whom he would call an 'educated fool' who touts his degree, my husband (who IS a college educated professional, by the way) says "Ohhhh, so he 'bought' a degree".

 

[punkin]

I am a big believer in higher education for its own sake, I guess that makes me an "educational snob". However, I do not believe that taking out enormous student loans is good for anybody. There are other ways to get a good education. There are community colleges, state universities, libraries...

 

[cheermom1]

I agree as well, I see it in my kids everyday..my dd is college bound always has been and she will do great..my ds on the other hand nope, will NOT do well at all. I have found a way to help him as he will be getting a certificate in IT before he graduates ...I have a feeling that is the highest 'degree' he will get but I am proud of him anyway!

But like I said I agree that not kids should go to college just not for them and they are just as smart and can handle some of the positions if they were put in it...

 

[chisnpeke]

I hate the fact that people who don't go to college are ruled out for many jobs, even if a college degree wouldn't help them in that job.

My boyfriend's cousins go to Brown and Duke, both prestigious schools but the fact that they are paying $50,000 a year for education that is really not much better than something you can get at a state school blows my mind. The only school that I could see maybe considering paying for is Harvard Law, even then I don't think I could chalk up the price for the name. In his family, you are expected to go to college and get a masters. If you don't you are more of a failure than anything else...my family kind of views it this way too, but thankfully not my own parents. Formal education at a university is stupid if you have no desire to be there. The university of life can be just as beneficial and educatioal. I'm in college right now and this is my third year. I went through all of last year not knowing what to do after deciding my education major wasn't for me. I am just now figuring out my degree plans and even then I have no idea what I want to do with my life.

You are basically paying for a very expensive piece of paper with college. And if you go to an Ivy league or other big name school with inflated price tags you are no different than paying for a designer name on a piece of clothing. The quality is usually better but not so much better that it justifies the cost.

 

[declansdad]

Post-secondary education is very important; however, there are many more choices than traditional college/university.

 

[chisnpeke]

I am a big believer in higher education for its own sake, I guess that makes me an "educational snob". However, I do not believe that taking out enormous student loans is good for anybody. There are other ways to get a good education. There are community colleges, state universities, libraries...

I don't think there is anything wrong with education for education's sake. Taking college classes or any kind of education course is always beneficial. There is no harm in broadening your mind. I have learned a lot from my college classes. I also learned a lot in high school. If people don't go to college, I wish they would broaden their views by doing their own education and just being educated about the world around them. Too many people even in college don't do that.

 

[momz]

academia has a lot of power to influence our culture, both politically and socially.

In general, i think that college is necessary to pursue a well paid career, but only because our society believes that it is. And the reason our society buys into it is because of the influence of the universities on our culture.

I think about my own career and realize that what I needed to be successful was not what i learned in school. I think that my experience with college (and I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree) has been basically an investment of time and money to have the priveledge of working in my desired field. But, my education did not prepare me for that work.

wow, if my college professors knew what I thought about what i learned from them.....

bring back the idea of apprenticeship....learn by doing.

 

[castleview]

I agee with this article. Problem is that the "mindset" has been around for so many years now that you can't get hired for some of those positions that don't require a degree unless you have one.

Until that changes, kids will still feel the pressure to go so they can get that piece of paper just to get an interview.

Trust me, I know. I remember interviewing for several publishing jobs where the pay was so pathetic I wondered why I got my degree.

 

[FireDancer]

I am a big believer in higher education for its own sake, I guess that makes me an "educational snob". However, I do not believe that taking out enormous student loans is good for anybody. There are other ways to get a good education. There are community colleges, state universities, libraries...

That is what I did. I got a job and worked full time while I put myself through a local state University. I know a lot of people who wanted the whole "going away to college" experience and went into huge debt to do it. I did my going away thing after I graduated when I got a job in Florida. Not only did I leave with no debt, I left with savings.

I loved college and think it does have its place in the professional world. I would probably not have my job without it and I would also probably not get the same level of compensation.

It doesn't, however, need to put you into 30 years of debt if you don't let it.

 

[punkin]

That is what I did. I got a job and worked full time while I put myself through a local state University. I know a lot of people who wanted the whole "going away to college" experience and went into huge debt to do it. I did my going away thing after I graduated when I got a job in Florida. Not only did I leave with no debt, I left with savings.

I loved college and think it does have its place in the professional world. I would probably not have my job without it and I would also probably not get the same level of compensation.

It doesn't, however, need to put you into 30 years of debt if you don't let it.

That is my point exactly. I am not a believer in the "going away" experience necessarily (even though my DD is about to do just that) because a lot of times it just turns into a 4 year drink-fest. That is not my idea of education. However, a reasonably priced education is there for anyone who wants one.

 

[kpm76]

I hate the fact that people who don't go to college are ruled out for many jobs, even if a college degree wouldn't help them in that job.

My boyfriend's cousins go to Brown and Duke, both prestigious schools but the fact that they are paying $50,000 a year for education that is really not much better than something you can get at a state school blows my mind. The only school that I could see maybe considering paying for is Harvard Law, even then I don't think I could chalk up the price for the name. In his family, you are expected to go to college and get a masters. If you don't you are more of a failure than anything else...my family kind of views it this way too, but thankfully not my own parents. Formal education at a university is stupid if you have no desire to be there. The university of life can be just as beneficial and educatioal. I'm in college right now and this is my third year. I went through all of last year not knowing what to do after deciding my education major wasn't for me. I am just now figuring out my degree plans and even then I have no idea what I want to do with my life.

You are basically paying for a very expensive piece of paper with college. And if you go to an Ivy league or other big name school with inflated price tags you are no different than paying for a designer name on a piece of clothing. The quality is usually better but not so much better that it justifies the cost.

I respectfully disagree. Until you have been a student at an Ivy League school or top tier private institution, you cannot make the comparison to a state school. I'm not knocking state schools at all; there are some excellent ones that graduate top notch students. However, college is an entire experience....it's not just going to classes and completing assignments. Brown is a very diverse school with students from all over the world. The opportunity to connect with people who have such different life experience and the ability to learn form them is priceless. The quality of the professors, their educational background, research, travel etc is important. I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but my husband did. I went to a very good private school and feel I received an excellent education that was worth every penny. That said, I can't compare the college I attended with the Ivy League school. Comparing a state school (UVA, UNC Chapel Hill and Michigan are the possible exceptions) to an Ivy is apples to oranges.....

 

[momz]

I'm in college right now and this is my third year. I went through all of last year not knowing what to do after deciding my education major wasn't for me. I am just now figuring out my degree plans and even then I have no idea what I want to do with my life.

You are basically paying for a very expensive piece of paper with college. And if you go to an Ivy league or other big name school with inflated price tags you are no different than paying for a designer name on a piece of clothing. The quality is usually better but not so much better that it justifies the cost.

A great example of the difficulty that a lot of kids face. When a child reaches about 16 years old, they start being questioned about what colleges they are interested in what career path they might pursue. But many times, these questions come as a surprise, and the kid really has no idea at all. I think our high schools do a very poor job of helping kids identify their gifts and their interests. And, since the schools aren't doing it, this is where parents need to take some initiative and help their kids to have aptitude testing to help guide their decisions and maybe make it a little easier. So many times, a child just doesn't know what career options are available to them, and how to go about finding out. It's sad really, and it results in kids getting to their sophomore/junior year of college and THEN realizing that their choice isn't a good fit.

I feel for you, and wish you the best in your pursuits. hang in there, you are not alone by any means.

 

[chisnpeke]

That is my point exactly. I am not a believer in the "going away" experience necessarily (even though my DD is about to do just that) because a lot of times it just turns into a 4 year drink-fest. That is not my idea of education. However, a reasonably priced education is there for anyone who wants one.

The problem is too many kids don't want to go to college unless they are going to get the party atmosphere. A lot of people don't want to put the work in for even certificates. They'd rather just be nothing and learn nothing. It's really sad.

 

[punkin]

I respectfully disagree. Until you have been a student at an Ivy League school or top tier private institution, you cannot make the comparison to a state school

True, but people going to Brown (ivy) and Duke (not ivy) are not the types of students who should not be in college in the first place. I think it is more the uninterested and marginal students in lower tier schools that take out huge loans with no prospects of ever making enough money to cover them that is the true issue.

 

[chisnpeke]

I respectfully disagree. Until you have been a student at an Ivy League school or top tier private institution, you cannot make the comparison to a state school. I'm not knocking state schools at all; there are some excellent ones that graduate top notch students. However, college is an entire experience....it's not just going to classes and completing assignments. Brown is a very diverse school with students from all over the world. The opportunity to connect with people who have such different life experience and the ability to learn form them is priceless. The quality of the professors, their educational background, research, travel etc is important. I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but my husband did. I went to a very good private school and feel I received an excellent education that was worth every penny. That said, I can't compare the college I attended with the Ivy League school. Comparing a state school (UVA, UNC Chapel Hill and Michigan are the possible exceptions) to an Ivy is apples to oranges.....

Like I said, the quality at private schools is in all probability better than at state schools. However, for the $50,000 price, I would rather travel and get experiences with people from different cultures and experiences than spend it on an education I can get for a much lower cost.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

True, but people going to Brown (ivy) and Duke (not ivy) are not the types of students who should not be in college in the first place. I think it is more the uninterested and marginal students in lower tier schools that take out huge loans with no prospects of ever making enough money to cover them that is the true issue.

One should also note that an education at an Ivy League school is more about who you meet than what you learn. Remember the scandal a few years ago at Harvard? Degrees virtually handed out, and the highest pass percentage in the country. Why? Because the school refused to fail students who were the children of such influential people.

The kids who work their way into an Ivy League school probably still get a great education - but that is not so for the "entitled" class...

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I realized when I graduated High School I didn't want to go to college right away. So I went to work at the company I work at now. Now, 12 years later, I've been promoted 4 or 5 times, changed career paths and now handle a $55 million budget. During the course of my career I made it a point to take classes to hone skills and did a lot of self study. This method worked much better for me then if I had gone away.

More recently I decided what my next career jump will be, and I felt I really needed to get some more education to make it as smooth as possible, and I started to go to school part time. I have since completed over 30 credit hours and am on my way to get a degree centered around International Business. I also have incurred no really expenses related to my education between my company's reimbursement policy and the tax credits on the balance.

Does this method work for everyone, absolutely not, some people need the more formal environment to achieve what I have, they do not have the focus or desire to attempt it on their own.

Side note, I sit on two boards, and the biggest one I sit on helps underprivledged students who have the desire to go to college, make it a reality, not just financially (there is a lot of financial options out there if you know where to look) but emotionally, physically, etc. Sometimes I struggle with the direction that some members want to take the organization on a larger scale, with everyone going to college, but fortunately, the majority and those who have the most policy influence realize its not something that should ever be forced on a student, it should be something they desire and need to be successful.