THE Auction scene was the last thing Walt saw

Great point Tonyz. Walt also ran the ink and paint department with all women not because it was a lower position but because he felt that women were simply better at proper color identification and color perception than men.

That's just as sexist! Can't you see that?

Well... let's not lie:

"more women by percentage worked in non-ink and paint artistic positions at the Disney Studios while Walt was alive than any other animation studio in the world.

For the record, here are some specific names of just some of the women who worked in creative animation positions:

Animators: Retta Scott (Scott was the first Disney woman animator to ever receive a screen credit for her work. It was on Bambi. She joined the story department in 1938, the same year as that standard form letter, and was made an animator when Bambi went into production), Mildred Rossi

Art Direction: Mary Blair

Visual Development: Sylvia Moberly-Holland

Assistant Direction: Bea Selck

Story: Bianca Majolie, Sterling Sturtevant

Character Modelling: Lorna Soderstrom, Fini Rudiger

Background Painting: Thelma Witmer, Ethel Kulsar

Promotional Art and Advertising: Gyo Fujikawa

Assistant animators and In-betweeners: Freddie Blackburn, Elinor Fallberg, Mary Schuster, Grace Stanzell, Lois Blunquist, Elizabeth Case, Retta Davidson, Eva Schneider, Dolores Apodaca, Bea Tomargo, Jane Shattuck, Sylvia Frye, Nancy Stapp, Ruth Kissane, Janice Kenworthy

As an example, Retta Davidson was hired in July 1939 when she was only 17 years old. She did special-effects painting of fire, water and bubbles on animated features like Bambi and Fantasia.

In 1941, women who worked in the Ink and Paint Department were invited to submit drawings of Donald Duck in order to be considered for jobs in the Animation Department. Retta and nine other women were chosen to be trained as in-betweeners and background artists. This opportunity never happened at any other animation studio."

All from Disney historian Jim Korkis:https://www.mouseplanet.com/10606/Debunking_Meryl_Streep_Part_Two

So maybe Walt had more opportunities than other studios. Things were still far from equal. Just because he didn't dislike women doesn't mean that he treated them equally. I still would never trust his opinion on how women in the 21st century should be represented.
 
This isn't 21st century representation. It's 18th century. We can't go back and change 18th century history because it's not convenient in today's narrative

It's not about 'convenience'. 1. Pirates was never historically accurate. 2. Are bride auctions even historically accurate? More likely women were just raped. 3. It is a ride designed for children. 4. Gender attitudes have changed significantly since it's creation.

I was a little girl who grew up going through this ride, and this scene DID bother me. Not to the point that I was scarred by it, but it, along with all the other little jabs at me being a object only suitable for a bride does have a subtle effect on your psyche. I was also an overweight girl, and the jeers at the fat woman, bothered me most of all... That scene told me that I was worth nothing to men because of my looks.

I know some people refuse to change or grow. Too bad. The rest of us are going to "Keep Moving Forward" and I think Walt would understand much better than you.
 


Again losing that scene does not bother me. Losing the last scene Walt ever saw and approved is the kicker. This is a discussion and that is what I think about it. Just from your tone on this it plays to a much larger issue today. We can discuss and I can have my opinion and you can have yours. One of us doesn't have to be wrong. That's what opinions are.
 
So maybe Walt had more opportunities than other studios. Things were still far from equal. Just because he didn't dislike women doesn't mean that he treated them equally. I still would never trust his opinion on how women in the 21st century should be represented.

One of the most wrong-headed thing we can do is judge people from the past to the standards of today.

Having said that... I'd be interested if you can find any evidence of Walt treating women in an unequal way. In fact, Walt was a strong advocate that women should not be harassed in the workplace and should be treated as equals. That certainly wasn't the norm back then. Walt employed women in positions of authority and supported women to grow both professionally.

Walt went above and beyond what was considered standard practice.
 


I was also an overweight girl, and the jeers at the fat woman, bothered me most of all... That scene told me that I was worth nothing to men because of my looks.

Trying to stay out of most of the fray here, but had to pipe in here to say (as I said in another thread here) being heavy most of my life, this also affected me, and how I felt about myself, and cemented how I knew/know the world saw/sees me every single day. And yes, every single time I rode. It's a fact, Jack.
 
Trying to stay out of most of the fray here, but had to pipe in here to say (as I said in another thread here) being heavy most of my life, this also affected me, and how I felt about myself, and cemented how I knew/know the world saw/sees me every single day. And yes, every single time I rode. It's a fact, Jack.

This. 100% this! Being made fun of hurts, even if it's second hand via a Disneyland attraction.

My biggest issue about the change is what they're changing it to. Pirates taking the time to have an auction in a town that they're in the middle ransacking? Not to mention that it's burning around them. That part never made sense to me. If the imagineers are going to change it why not do something completely different? Get rid of the auction all together and put in something totally new.
 
A for maelstrom the biggest issue I had with that is the front of the park is falling apart and they felt putting the frozen ride in was the first priority? They don't need to do anything to World Showcase before they fix the mess in the original part of the park
 
A for maelstrom the biggest issue I had with that is the front of the park is falling apart and they felt putting the frozen ride in was the first priority? They don't need to do anything to World Showcase before they fix the mess in the original part of the park

Wait 2 hours and hopefully we'll hear some of the ways they're planning on fixing Future World!
 
To be honest...Walt was an anti-semite and sexist. There's a lot to be thankful to him for, and I will always be a fan, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to move forward from some of the creative choices he made. It doesn't mean that the spirit he created is gone, it just means that his parks are growing and changing with the times.
 
Hannah if you are going to make a statement like that please provide a reference. Last I checked the Sherman brothers were Jewish and I seem to remember a pretty good relationship between them
 
Hannah if you are going to make a statement like that please provide a reference. Last I checked the Sherman brothers were Jewish and I seem to remember a pretty good relationship between them

There's so much evidence against the "Walt was anti-Semitic BS". I'll post some of it later if this conversation continues, but I too am interested in hearing some reference point to saying otherwise.

If you're going to disparage a man like that you better bring some proof. People hear statements like that and agree with it without doing any critical thinking.
 
I won't say Walt Disney was an anti-Semite. I will say he was comfortable affiliating and aligning with some people that were anti-Semitic (e.g. in the MPAPAI). He also made a few cartoons that relied heavily on physical ethnic humor that could be viewed as anti-Semitic, though some of his earlier movies had issues with racism too. Without sitting down and talking with him, it's hard, imo, to make the case that he is anti-Semitic based on what we know.
 
Last edited:
I won't say Walt Disney was an anti-Semite. I will say he was comfortable affiliating and aligning with some people that were anti-Semitic (e.g. in the MPAPAI). He also made a few cartoons that relied heavily on physical ethnic humor that could be viewed as anti-Semitic, though some of his earlier movies had issues with racism too.

Yes this is true. But here's some info on the cartoons:

"The one and only blatant Jewish caricature appears in the award-winning short, the Three Little Pigs (1933). As one of his disguises to gain entry to the house and capture the pigs, the Big Bad Wolf briefly presents himself as a Jewish peddler selling brushes.

In 1948 for the shorts' rerelease, Walt funded having the wolf in the scene r-animated as a Fuller Brush salesman, another familiar image to audiences. Walt was under no pressure to do so. He realized that the change would not add one additional penny to the money received from the cartoon. In addition, there was no budget for this change.

Walt made sure that money was located to fund the change and assigned the work to director Jack Hannah's unit.

Walt made the change because he felt it just wasn't funny a decade after it was made and was potentially hurtful. There were no big meetings, lengthy discussions or outside agitation. Walt made the decision himself and it was not a big deal at the Disney Studio Hannah told me in an interview.

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913 [by the B'nai B'rith organization], and who monitored Jewish images in Hollywood films never voiced any objections about any of the Disney cartoon shorts."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the MPA... that had more to do with Walt's hatred of communism based on the Disney writers strike of '41 (which is a whole different conversation and one that I actually would not totally defend Walt). Walt was only involved in the MPA for a year following the strikes. I'm not gonna defend the MPA because I don't know enough about it and frankly some of its members are disgusting... but there were multiple Jewish members and I will let one of them - Morrie Ryskind - speak on the charges of anti-Semitism in the group:

"Now, really, at my age and with my background (my grandfather was six-foot-two, and he had a beard that was six-foot even, which probably topped Elmer’s grandfather’s beard by at least a yard) I would be a sucker to go around joining anti-Semitic Organizations…As for the goyim [gentiles or non-Jews] in the Alliance, they work with, dine with, drink with, golf with, bowl with and play bridge with Jews; at least three of them have had the chutzpah to marry Jewish girls."

Here's a little more evidence against the anti-Semitic nonsense:
  • The B'nai B'rith Beverly Hills Chapter in 1955 awarded Walt Disney its prestigious Man of the Year Award. The B'nai B'rith organization originated in the 19th century to combat anti-Semitism. They investigated Walt thoroughly and determined to the satisfaction of its leadership that Walt had no anti-Semitic tendencies.
  • 1958, the Kansas City chapter of B’nai B’rith awarded him a Distinguished Service Citation.
  • For the opening of Disneyland on July 17, 1955, the Reverend Glenn Puder, Walt's nephew-in-law, delivered the invocation. He stood alongside representatives of the major American religions at that time: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish (represented by Rabbi Edgar Magnin). In addition, Walt had invitations sent to editors from eight different religious newspapers (Catholic, Jewish and Protestant), as well as invitees from nearby churches in the Anaheim area - plus a Jewish Synagogue.
  • Walt Disney's head of merchandising for over a decade, Kay Kamen (who was Jewish) once quipped that the Disney company "had more Jews in it than the Book of Leviticus."
  • Walt regularly donated (without any publicity just like his other charitable contributions) to a number of Jewish charities, like the Yeshiva College and the Jewish Home for the Aged.
  • Robert Sherman defended Walt with the following story: “One time, [my brother] Richard and I overheard a discussion between Walt and one of his lawyers. This attorney was a real bad guy, didn’t like minorities. He said something about Richard and me, and he called us ‘these Jew boys writing these songs.’ Well, Walt defended us, and he fired the lawyer.”
  • "As far as I'm concerned, there was no evidence of anti-Semitism," said legendary storyman and concept artist Joe Grant, who was Jewish and saw Walt's interaction with staff who were of the Jewish faith. "I think the whole idea should be put to rest and buried deep. He was not anti-Semitic. Some of the most influential people at the Studio were Jewish. It's much ado about nothing. I never once had a problem with him in that way. That myth should be laid to rest."

Work cited:

https://www.mouseplanet.com/10605/Debunking_Meryl_Streep_Part_One

http://www.disneyhistoryinstitute.com/2014/02/in-defense-of-walt-walt-disney-and-anti.html
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!






Top