That was utterly terrifying and I regret having joined you (aka: how did I find myself training for the MW2023 challenge?)

NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Week 8, with temps and humidity letting up a bit, no longer feel quite so bad, but still questioning my life choices.

Was going to do a redemption long run on Saturday and try the planned route from last week but overslept again (there's a theme here) and didn't want to waste 45min on the subway just to run at higher temps, so headed south on the Greenway to Battery Park instead. Which was a great choice, because got to explore all the different piers jutting out into the Hudson. It's definitely marathon training season in NY, sooo many runners (and especially running groups) out on a Saturday morning. It's really quite motivating! And did pop a nuun once I got home. Still not sure if it helped, but it definitely didn't hurt, and cold fizzy flavored water is always a good thing 😁.

Sunday was supposed to be a rest day, but noticed I was only 5k away from earning the 200k badge on Strava, so moved Monday morning's easy run to Sunday night. It's a little terrifying to me that I ran 200 km in a month (most monthly mileage ever) but here we are.
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Sleepless Knight

Jedi Knight Seeking His Jedi Princess
Joined
May 15, 2008
realizing "what did I get myself into; why did I think it was a good idea?" this week, and I'm not even a quarter of the way into training (plus another 8 weeks for Princess). Yikes! Gonna chalk it up to the weather and keep plugging away.
I frequently deal with this especially early on in training. The days where a run just feels way more difficult than it should loom even larger because it's easy to give into negative thinking and fear that I'm going to fail miserably on race day.

Over the years, I've developed a few tricks that work for me. Maybe they'll help, maybe they won't.

1. Remind myself that I do not have to run the race distance today. But today's run will prepare me to run the distance on race day. When I really do not want to go for a 3 or 4 mile maintenance run, I tell myself that I'm really at mile 22 or 23 of the marathon and I'm practicing today so I know what it feels like to get through the end of the run when I think I don't want to run any more. This has been especially helpful on race day itself because when the real mile 22 comes, I remind myself that I've practiced for months this very run.

2. Humor. This is an unusual one, but it works for me. Basically find something humorous about this, occasionally with a dark tone and somehow this gets me out the door.

When I was in a rough place mentally the day before leaving for marathon weekend this year, the algorithm on the music I was listening to brought up "When I'm Older" from Frozen 2. I have not purchased the soundtrack to that movie. Somehow the combination of Olaf's loveable delusion concluding that everything will make sense when you're older and my nerves about race weekend and life after race weekend got me to laughing and I suddenly felt a lot better. For whatever random reason, that helped me to stop worrying and embrace the moment for whatever it would bring. Rhino the Hamster from Bolt is also a great humorous motivational legend for me. He's my running spirit animal as it were.

3. Look back at things you have done in your life that are more difficult than running and use those times to remind yourself that you can do this. You can figure out a way because you've done it before. Don't worry if the hard things you have done in the past are very different from what running. The principle matters far more. You did a hard thing then because it mattered to you so you can do this hard thing now.

4. Slow and steady wins the race. So running means slow may not be in the cards, but steady is what will win the day. Powering through it today helps build stamina for race day. Destroying today's excuse to not get out there makes it easier to destroy that excuse again tomorrow or the day after that. Consistency helps you become capable of more.
 

NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
I frequently deal with this especially early on in training. The days where a run just feels way more difficult than it should loom even larger because it's easy to give into negative thinking and fear that I'm going to fail miserably on race day.

Over the years, I've developed a few tricks that work for me. Maybe they'll help, maybe they won't.

1. Remind myself that I do not have to run the race distance today. But today's run will prepare me to run the distance on race day. When I really do not want to go for a 3 or 4 mile maintenance run, I tell myself that I'm really at mile 22 or 23 of the marathon and I'm practicing today so I know what it feels like to get through the end of the run when I think I don't want to run any more. This has been especially helpful on race day itself because when the real mile 22 comes, I remind myself that I've practiced for months this very run.

2. Humor. This is an unusual one, but it works for me. Basically find something humorous about this, occasionally with a dark tone and somehow this gets me out the door.

When I was in a rough place mentally the day before leaving for marathon weekend this year, the algorithm on the music I was listening to brought up "When I'm Older" from Frozen 2. I have not purchased the soundtrack to that movie. Somehow the combination of Olaf's loveable delusion concluding that everything will make sense when you're older and my nerves about race weekend and life after race weekend got me to laughing and I suddenly felt a lot better. For whatever random reason, that helped me to stop worrying and embrace the moment for whatever it would bring. Rhino the Hamster from Bolt is also a great humorous motivational legend for me. He's my running spirit animal as it were.

3. Look back at things you have done in your life that are more difficult than running and use those times to remind yourself that you can do this. You can figure out a way because you've done it before. Don't worry if the hard things you have done in the past are very different from what running. The principle matters far more. You did a hard thing then because it mattered to you so you can do this hard thing now.

4. Slow and steady wins the race. So running means slow may not be in the cards, but steady is what will win the day. Powering through it today helps build stamina for race day. Destroying today's excuse to not get out there makes it easier to destroy that excuse again tomorrow or the day after that. Consistency helps you become capable of more.

Thanks for the encouragement! It's definitely true, and I especially like how you phrased "destroying today's excuse to not get out there makes it easier to destroy that excuse again tomorrow". And just to remind myself to look at each run at a time, not to psych myself out with what's too far ahead; and also that though I pretty much never want to go out and do the run or the workout, I never regret having done it afterwards.
 

Sleepless Knight

Jedi Knight Seeking His Jedi Princess
Joined
May 15, 2008
Thanks for the encouragement! It's definitely true, and I especially like how you phrased "destroying today's excuse to not get out there makes it easier to destroy that excuse again tomorrow". And just to remind myself to look at each run at a time, not to psych myself out with what's too far ahead; and also that though I pretty much never want to go out and do the run or the workout, I never regret having done it afterwards.
I once saw a Nike shirt that simply said "Destroy Excuses." Yes, it's a cliche, but it rings true. We can always find an excuse to skip the run. Sometimes those might actually be good reasons, but I have learned from experience that today's excuse easily turns into tomorrow's good reason and pretty soon I haven't run in 3 weeks.

I have also learned from the right kind of experience. On many a long run, I argued with myself for what seemed like an eternity, but was in actuality only a few minutes that I'm too tired/sore/whatever and should go home, turn on college football and just enjoy being lazy. But after a mile or so, running doesn't feel so bad. And next thing I realize, there's only one mile to run in that long run that seemed way too difficult an hour or so ago.

I still do not fully understand the miracle of the human body that enables one to build up the stamina and fitness necessary to run longer distances without running 20 miles every single week. But I've run enough to know that despite now knowing how it happens that way, I know that it works.
 

Cabius

More Disney-obsessed than is healthy.
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
I have also learned from the right kind of experience. On many a long run, I argued with myself for what seemed like an eternity, but was in actuality only a few minutes that I'm too tired/sore/whatever and should go home, turn on college football and just enjoy being lazy. But after a mile or so, running doesn't feel so bad. And next thing I realize, there's only one mile to run in that long run that seemed way too difficult an hour or so ago.
This is totally true! (Unless you're running on a treadmill, at which point each mile is an interminable torture session that just gets worse and worse. Or is that just me?)
 

Sleepless Knight

Jedi Knight Seeking His Jedi Princess
Joined
May 15, 2008
This is totally true! (Unless you're running on a treadmill, at which point each mile is an interminable torture session that just gets worse and worse. Or is that just me?)
Interestingly enough, I learned that lesson on the treadmill. The pandemic forced me outdoors. I'd like to get back to more treadmill since that also becomes a convenient excuse to do some strength training, but I like listening to audiobooks too much on my runs.
 

azrivest

Chasing the rDream
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
This is totally true! (Unless you're running on a treadmill, at which point each mile is an interminable torture session that just gets worse and worse. Or is that just me?)

No it's not just you. I can't handle more than 30-45 minutes on the treadmill. The boredom makes me nuts, even if I have the TV on or what not.
 

NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Week 9: halfway to Chicago! Had to move some things around, hopefully each day's workout/run is still optimally in the right place.

Tuesday was one to dread. Hills in and of themselves are fine (running in NY you can't really get away from them), but having to do them at the pace prescribed was daunting. I'm definitely NOT a speed person, am squarely in Greg McMillan's "endurance monster" category, and my happy 5K pace is not that far off from half marathon pace. By repeat 6 I was DONE, but forced myself to do another two before throwing in the towel (though a comparable "hill" in the middle of the cooldown mile was okay). Could I have done more? Probably. Did I want to? Nope. Defeatist mind 1: Body 0.
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Rest of the week wasn't so bad. Was surprised to see that the first third of Saturday's progression run should have been slower, but the other two were pretty good. Maybe did push myself too hard during the last third (should have been slower adjusting for T/D), but it was getting too sunny and hot (even at 9AM) and just wanted to be done.
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NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Week 10: switched over completely to McMillan from hybrid with Higdon. Like most everyone else, sooo thankful for the drop in temps/humidity (for us after Tuesday night's thunderstorm). Because of that, was super happy with both Wednesday's goal pace workout and Sunday's long run (especially since hills were involved). Didn't check paces during Wednesday's run, just tried to go at race effort, so even more pleased with how it turned out. Also pleasantly surprised with how okay I felt having no fuel (brought along but never needed) and a 16oz water during the long run (though did pop a nuun with more water after run).

Got to visit Providence with friends for the weekend, which moved the usual Saturday long run to Sunday. Which meant this morning's easy run was on very tired legs. Ugh, if that's how it feels, January is not going to be fun. Although, surprisingly, after mile 1 (which is always the worst for me anyways), things did get better. Not looking forward to Wednesday's Yasso 800s workout...


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NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Question: Didn't plan things well and just donated blood (1 pint whole blood) and have a speed workout (8x Yasso 800) on the docket for tomorrow morning.
1. Do I still do the workout? And if so, at planned paces?
2. Could potentially swap with Thursday's weight training (or just drop the weights altogether 😁)

Think I should still be okay with Friday's easy run and Saturday's 17M long run.

Thanks!
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Question: Didn't plan things well and just donated blood (1 pint whole blood) and have a speed workout (8x Yasso 800) on the docket for tomorrow morning.
1. Do I still do the workout? And if so, at planned paces?
2. Could potentially swap with Thursday's weight training (or just drop the weights altogether 😁)

Think I should still be okay with Friday's easy run and Saturday's 17M long run.

Thanks!

Per Runner's Connect (link), the effect of donating blood lasts about three weeks. I didn't review any of the research articles referenced. This article from Trail Runner (link) jives with the Runner Connect information. As well as this article written by Pete Magill from Outside (link).

The consensus is that if it was a blood donation and not a plasma donation, then you need to take it easy for several weeks. With this in mind, I would not plan on doing the Yasso 800s anytime soon, and would be very careful with this weekend's plans. I say this with no experience donating blood and only having read the above linked articles.
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Per Runner's Connect (link), the effect of donating blood lasts about three weeks. I didn't review any of the research articles referenced. This article from Trail Runner (link) jives with the Runner Connect information. As well as this article written by Pete Magill from Outside (link).

The consensus is that if it was a blood donation and not a plasma donation, then you need to take it easy for several weeks. With this in mind, I would not plan on doing the Yasso 800s anytime soon, and would be very careful with this weekend's plans. I say this with no experience donating blood and only having read the above linked articles.

I went and pulled the Daniels "Effect of Time off from running on VO2max value" table to put the values quoted in runner's connect into perspective.

2 hours after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 56 days (!)
2 days after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 40 days (!)
7 days after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 28 days (!)

So obviously the improvement rate is greater than actually returning to running from time off, but even 7 days after a blood donation feels like you haven't run in a month. Giving blood has a fairly significant effect for a few weeks.
 

NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
I went and pulled the Daniels "Effect of Time off from running on VO2max value" table to put the values quoted in runner's connect into perspective.

2 hours after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 56 days (!)
2 days after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 40 days (!)
7 days after blood donation will make your fitness feel like you haven't run in 28 days (!)

So obviously the improvement rate is greater than actually returning to running from time off, but even 7 days after a blood donation feels like you haven't run in a month. Giving blood has a fairly significant effect for a few weeks.
Yikes! I knew it had some effect but had no idea it was that extreme. Must plan better in the future. I guess tomorrow is a rest day then, maybe easy days Thu and Fri, and Saturday's route will be one that'll make it easy to get home fast if things start going south.

Thanks so much!
 

Naomeri

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Question: Didn't plan things well and just donated blood (1 pint whole blood) and have a speed workout (8x Yasso 800) on the docket for tomorrow morning.
1. Do I still do the workout? And if so, at planned paces?
2. Could potentially swap with Thursday's weight training (or just drop the weights altogether 😁)

Think I should still be okay with Friday's easy run and Saturday's 17M long run.

Thanks!
I’ve donated blood a bunch of times in the past, and never had any adverse effects until I started regularly working out. I tried to do my usual basic yoga routine a few hours after donating and almost passed out. Definitely take it super easy for a while!
 

WillRunForPizza

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Huh, maybe this explains some things. I blamed a difficult run a couple of months ago on a late dinner and too many margaritas, but it sounds like donating blood a few days before could have had something to do with it too. And I definitely went right ahead with my schedule lol. I will say that none of it killed me (obviously), but I didn't realize donating blood could have such an impact on your running!
 

michigandergirl

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
I have stopped donating blood during half & full marathon training. It really messes me up for 4-6 weeks. Runs just feel way harder than they should and I find that I can't manage anything other than an easy pace. Everyone is different though, so hopefully you won't have as hard of a time.
 

Cabius

More Disney-obsessed than is healthy.
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Hmm, I wonder if the reverse is true. If I just injected an extra half-pint of blood before a race, would it improve my performance?

Erm, asking for a friend.
 

DopeyBadger

Imagathoner
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Hmm, I wonder if the reverse is true. If I just injected an extra half-pint of blood before a race, would it improve my performance?

Erm, asking for a friend.

That's called blood doping via transfusion (link).

Blood transfusions involve drawing out your own blood and storing it for a few months while your body replenishes its red blood-cell supplies. Then, before the competition, the athlete would re-inject the blood back into his or her body. The outcome is similar to that of EPO — a bump in red blood cells. WADA suggests there has been a resurgence of blood transfusions with the introduction of an EPO-detection method in 2000.

Based on the above, the answer is yes, it would improve your ability to maintain paces for longer.
 

Cabius

More Disney-obsessed than is healthy.
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
That's called blood doping via transfusion (link).

Blood transfusions involve drawing out your own blood and storing it for a few months while your body replenishes its red blood-cell supplies. Then, before the competition, the athlete would re-inject the blood back into his or her body. The outcome is similar to that of EPO — a bump in red blood cells. WADA suggests there has been a resurgence of blood transfusions with the introduction of an EPO-detection method in 2000.

Based on the above, the answer is yes, it would improve your ability to maintain paces for longer.
Wow, that's crazy. Thanks for sharing. I think I'll pass though. 😄
 

NYC_MW

Mouseketeer
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Week 11: Mistakes were made. As mentioned above, didn't think things through and donated blood Tuesday afternoon. I used to do it a lot, but hadn't since I started running and didn't realize it would have such a big effect. Oh well, lesson learned. Grateful for the knowledge shared by all on this board.

Thursday: easy pace hit, but definitely bordering on not easy effort 😣
Friday: for some reason, that route to BoMF is always harder (maybe it's the inclines, maybe it's the rats startling me as I startle them at 5am)
Saturday: an exciting route-last day of this year's summer streets when they close down Park Ave and let the pedestrians and bikers run rampant. Still a couple of cross streets open to traffic, so those red lights were very very welcome. Mile 12 onward was tough-had to take quite a few long walk breaks as evidenced by mile splits, but got it done. 30oz water; 4 honey stinger chews over the 3 hrs. Now I remember how too many chews can be cloying. Time to try out the peanut butter pretzels that were suggested in the main forum a while ago.

Incidentally, have been having intermittent Achilles soreness so trying to adjust to strike midfoot instead of heel first the last couple of runs. Until I get too tired and revert. But now my calves are super tired and tight in the mornings. *sigh* just have to laugh at myself sometimes.
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