Thank You, Pete

[hanco005]

Not really adding much to the conversation here, but I like our law, especially # 24. This was a hot topic here a few years ago when it first started, but it seems to work and there are rarely complaints (at least that make it to the masses).

http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/FAQs.html

 

[pta-mom]

Yes Dan, I can see your point of view about wanting to be prepared "in case". And you are 100% correct that there are horrible, violent people in Canada too! The pig farmer is a classic, disgusting example of humanity gone bad. I have another disgusting example, much more personal to me....

My best girlhood friend's sixteen year old sister Laura, was a lone clerk in a family owned store when a man, freshly released from prison, came into the store & shot her in the head, killing her instantly. He took some cash & scratch tickets totalling $97 & destroyed a family. He had gotten the gun when he had broke into someone's home earlier in the day & stole it.

Now I get the whole the mantra, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" & I understand that this was just a random act of violence that poor Laura just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. By your thought processing Dan (I'm inferring here so forgive me if I'm wrong), if Laura had had a gun or if another customer had had a gun, they might have shot the robber instead of ending a beautiful young girls life. I get that scenerio & believe me, it would have been preferable in this case.

However, my logic still goes by the numbers. The number of voilent crimes anywhere near where I live is small...& I live in a larger city. Frankly, the number of violent crimes anywhere in Canada is low! Yes we have rapes, home invasions, purse snatchings, occasional bank robberies, etc but it is still a very small porportion. And the number of shootings is VERY small, maybe a few a year? Why? Because the average person does not own, have excess too or carry a gun.

I guess my thought is that IF people had more excess to guns, there would be more shooting, more of a chance for innocent people to get caught in the cross-fire. My thought is that more guns leads to more accidents, more possible bravado scenerios by people pushed to their limit or intoxicated, more random killings, more violent crimes, more thefts of guns by those not in control, etc.

I do wonder sometimes though if the real issue is not so much whether or not the average American feels they must or should own a fire arm or is it that the average citizen just wants to maintain the RIGHT to own a weapon?

It is an interesting debate & I certainly respect your rights & opinions Dan. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Yes Dan, I can see your point of view about wanting to be prepared "in case". And you are 100% correct that there are horrible, violent people in Canada too! The pig farmer is a classic, disgusting example of humanity gone bad. I have another disgusting example, much more personal to me....

My best girlhood friend's sixteen year old sister Laura, was a lone clerk in a family owned store when a man, freshly released from prison, came into the store & shot her in the head, killing her instantly. He took some cash & scratch tickets totalling $97 & destroyed a family. He had gotten the gun when he had broke into someone's home earlier in the day & stole it.

Now I get the whole the mantra, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" & I understand that this was just a random act of violence that poor Laura just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. By your thought processing Dan (I'm inferring here so forgive me if I'm wrong), if Laura had had a gun or if another customer had had a gun, they might have shot the robber instead of ending a beautiful young girls life. I get that scenerio & believe me, it would have been preferable in this case.

However, my logic still goes by the numbers. The number of voilent crimes anywhere near where I live is small...& I live in a larger city. Frankly, the number of violent crimes anywhere in Canada is low! Yes we have rapes, home invasions, purse snatchings, occasional bank robberies, etc but it is still a very small porportion. And the number of shootings is VERY small, maybe a few a year? Why? Because the average person does not own, have excess too or carry a gun.

I guess my thought is that IF people had more excess to guns, there would be more shooting, more of a chance for innocent people to get caught in the cross-fire. My thought is that more guns leads to more accidents, more possible bravado scenerios by people pushed to their limit or intoxicated, more random killings, more violent crimes, more thefts of guns by those not in control, etc.

I do wonder sometimes though if the real issue is not so much whether or not the average American feels they must or should own a fire arm or is it that the average citizen just wants to maintain the RIGHT to own a weapon?

It is an interesting debate & I certainly respect your rights & opinions Dan. Thanks for enlightening me.

Beautifully said. As a SIL to a murder victim (shotgun, legally owned), and the friend of a shooting accident victim (fatal, again shotgun, legally owned), I agree with your thought that the availability of guns to every segment of society does lead to a heightened incident of the scenarios you mentioned.

 

[dmccarty]

Yes Dan, I can see your point of view about wanting to be prepared "in case". And you are 100% correct that there are horrible, violent people in Canada too! The pig farmer is a classic, disgusting example of humanity gone bad. I have another disgusting example, much more personal to me....

My best girlhood friend's sixteen year old sister Laura, was a lone clerk in a family owned store when a man, freshly released from prison, came into the store & shot her in the head, killing her instantly. He took some cash & scratch tickets totalling $97 & destroyed a family. He had gotten the gun when he had broke into someone's home earlier in the day & stole it.

Now I get the whole the mantra, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" & I understand that this was just a random act of violence that poor Laura just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. By your thought processing Dan (I'm inferring here so forgive me if I'm wrong), if Laura had had a gun or if another customer had had a gun, they might have shot the robber instead of ending a beautiful young girls life. I get that scenerio & believe me, it would have been preferable in this case.

However, my logic still goes by the numbers. The number of voilent crimes anywhere near where I live is small...& I live in a larger city. Frankly, the number of violent crimes anywhere in Canada is low! Yes we have rapes, home invasions, purse snatchings, occasional bank robberies, etc but it is still a very small porportion. And the number of shootings is VERY small, maybe a few a year? Why? Because the average person does not own, have excess too or carry a gun.

I guess my thought is that IF people had more excess to guns, there would be more shooting, more of a chance for innocent people to get caught in the cross-fire. My thought is that more guns leads to more accidents, more possible bravado scenerios by people pushed to their limit or intoxicated, more random killings, more violent crimes, more thefts of guns by those not in control, etc.

I do wonder sometimes though if the real issue is not so much whether or not the average American feels they must or should own a fire arm or is it that the average citizen just wants to maintain the RIGHT to own a weapon?

It is an interesting debate & I certainly respect your rights & opinions Dan. Thanks for enlightening me.

I think many people in the US own a firearm because they like them. They like to hunt, shoot, collect and provide protection not because they HAVE too to prove a point.

Your idea that more guns equal more crime is one that is often mentioned. But it does not seem true. When CCW was first proposed in FLA the call went out that there would be shooting all over the place. People would have road rage and shoot each other. This just has not happened. Kleck has done the best research on the subject of guns and crime and he estimates 1 to 2 million uses of a firearm a year to prevent a crime.

The company I work for has had two mass shootings one of which happened at my site. It has also have had bombings, rapes, and assaults. A few years ago a women was kidnapped out of our "secure" workplace and I know of people who where threatening other people on the campus. A friend of mine was the first person seen by the mass shooter when the thug came into the building. If my friend had a weapon the shooter would not have gotten past him. Instead he could only hold up his hands and pray. Thankfully for my friend he was not on the hit list.

I don't think most people realize how much bad stuff goes on around them. I would bet most people I work with don't know about the incidents I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Alot of violence is around people they just don't see it or know it happened.

My understanding of the handgun ban in Canada was due to suicides and not violent crimes. After the ban the number of suicides by handguns dropped. The overall suicide rate was about the same.

My purpose of joining this conversation was not to get into the guns cause crime debate so I'll stop on that subject.

One of my points I wanted to get across was that people make a choice, often without thought, regarding their safety. That in fact they play the odds. In your case in Canada that might be a good bet. Nor do I suggest and certainly did not intended too, that everyone should carry a firearm. But everyone SHOULD take simple steps to avoid being a victim. They should be aware of their surroundings. They should think of what ifs. Lock the dang door. Mace/Pepper spray is a good thing but not perfect. Get a can. Practice with it and know its limits. Get a new can every year. 5% of an alcohol based pepper spray is good. Of course some cities/states/country have outlawed their citizens this level of self protection.

When I was in 5th or 6th grade my mother and I went to the mall one night. She parked in what turned out to be a nearly empty part of the lot. When we left there was a man hanging out by the door. Mom and I both noticed him, (Be aware of what is going on around you) and she got her keys out while we stood near the lighted door to the mall. We quickly got in the car and left. She would have been attacked if I had not been there and she had not gotten her keys out. He knew we were reacting to him. He did not like our noticing of him but it stopped him.

If you are at home at night keep a cell phone near the bed. Wired phones are often cut before a thug enters a house. They can't stop the cell phone. Well if they can you really do have a problem.

The thugs running around are Evil. Its hard for most people to understand just what they are like. They just don't care about other people. Gangbangers call innocent people they have killed, mushrooms/shrooms. Why? Because killing people is like kicking a mushroom in the yard. It means nothing. Its an alien mindset, thankfully, to most people. But it is their reality. Just take some steps to make sure you are not a mushroom.

Later,
Dan