Testing refusal rates in your district

[Tinijocaro]

Somebody has their numbers wrong.

I wonder if those of you say teachers shouldn't be evaluated on the test, does that mean the test shouldn't, in anyway, be included in the evaluation, or are you just upset it's so much of the evaluation? If it's too much, how much is acceptable to you?

If no amount of the test is good, how should teachers be evaluated? Pretend you're the principal... what do you use to evaluate the teachers?

I would be just fine with having part of my evaluation come from these tests if and only if the tests were valid and measured what they said they measured. There are countless flaws in these tests, year after year, questions that are 3 and 4 grade levels above the grade of the student taking the test. This is the 4th year my kids have been opted out of these tests. Me and many teachers opted our own children out well before the tests became high stakes, well before half of our own evaluations were from the results of these tests. We did this because to anyone who can read can see that these tests are designed to make kids fail. Teachers could not learn anything from these tests except a number. "Oh. Johnnie is a 2. Hmmm. I wonder why Johnnie got a 2? I guess I'll never know because we aren't allowed to EVER see that information." Never mind what can the kids learn from these tests. Nothing. All they get is a number too. They don't get to see which questions they aced and which questions they messed up on. How are they learning anything? I want more for my children and all children.

So those of you who like to say it's teachers just trying to save our own butts, you are wrong. We've known these tests served no useful purpose for several years, but each the the stakes got worse and worse. Now, our jobs are on the line from these tests, of course we are going to fight. Who wouldn't? I have been speaking to people about these tests for 4 years now. I didn't wait until my job was on the line.

 

[Kbee]

So currently 40% is based on testing (whether state vs. local) and 60% from observation. The new plan is 50%/50%, right?

It will be 50% on state tests, and 30% from outside observation, and 20% from Principal observation/input.

 

[msjprincess]

I would be just fine with having part of my evaluation come from these tests if and only if the tests were valid and measured what they said they measured. There are countless flaws in these tests, year after year, questions that are 3 and 4 grade levels above the grade of the student taking the test. This is the 4th year my kids have been opted out of these tests. Me and many teachers opted our own children out well before the tests became high stakes, well before half of our own evaluations were from the results of these tests. We did this because to anyone who can read can see that these tests are designed to make kids fail. Teachers could not learn anything from these tests except a number. "Oh. Johnnie is a 2. Hmmm. I wonder why Johnnie got a 2? I guess I'll never know because we aren't allowed to EVER see that information." Never mind what can the kids learn from these tests. Nothing. All they get is a number too. They don't get to see which questions they aced and which questions they messed up on. How are they learning anything? I want more for my children and all children.

So those of you who like to say it's teachers just trying to save our own butts, you are wrong. We've known these tests served no useful purpose for several years, but each the the stakes got worse and worse. Now, our jobs are on the line from these tests, of course we are going to fight. Who wouldn't? I have been speaking to people about these tests for 4 years now. I didn't wait until my job was on the line.

MTE

I have no idea why my daughter scored a 2 and neither do her teachers. So making her go to AIS when no one knows why she's there is ridiculous.

 

[nugov2]

I would be just fine with having part of my evaluation come from these tests if and only if the tests were valid and measured what they said they measured. There are countless flaws in these tests, year after year, questions that are 3 and 4 grade levels above the grade of the student taking the test. This is the 4th year my kids have been opted out of these tests. Me and many teachers opted our own children out well before the tests became high stakes, well before half of our own evaluations were from the results of these tests. We did this because to anyone who can read can see that these tests are designed to make kids fail. Teachers could not learn anything from these tests except a number. "Oh. Johnnie is a 2. Hmmm. I wonder why Johnnie got a 2? I guess I'll never know because we aren't allowed to EVER see that information." Never mind what can the kids learn from these tests. Nothing. All they get is a number too. They don't get to see which questions they aced and which questions they messed up on. How are they learning anything? I want more for my children and all children.

So those of you who like to say it's teachers just trying to save our own butts, you are wrong. We've known these tests served no useful purpose for several years, but each the the stakes got worse and worse. Now, our jobs are on the line from these tests, of course we are going to fight. Who wouldn't? I have been speaking to people about these tests for 4 years now. I didn't wait until my job was on the line.

What test were you taking 4 years ago that was 3-4 grades above level??? I have never in my experience read a test that high above grade level. Even PARCC is on par here and I have seen some reports of that test a grade or two above, but that is in districts that need to raise the bar academically and that isn't the case for most of the country. I have a hard time buying the tests have been 3-4 grade levels above for years. So your telling me a 3rd grader is taking an 7th grade equivalent test and high school freshman are taking college level tests...I think that is another exaggeration.

 

[undertheradar]

I would be just fine with having part of my evaluation come from these tests if and only if the tests were valid and measured what they said they measured. There are countless flaws in these tests, year after year, questions that are 3 and 4 grade levels above the grade of the student taking the test. This is the 4th year my kids have been opted out of these tests. Me and many teachers opted our own children out well before the tests became high stakes, well before half of our own evaluations were from the results of these tests. We did this because to anyone who can read can see that these tests are designed to make kids fail. Teachers could not learn anything from these tests except a number. "Oh. Johnnie is a 2. Hmmm. I wonder why Johnnie got a 2? I guess I'll never know because we aren't allowed to EVER see that information." Never mind what can the kids learn from these tests. Nothing. All they get is a number too. They don't get to see which questions they aced and which questions they messed up on. How are they learning anything? I want more for my children and all children.

So those of you who like to say it's teachers just trying to save our own butts, you are wrong. We've known these tests served no useful purpose for several years, but each the the stakes got worse and worse. Now, our jobs are on the line from these tests, of course we are going to fight. Who wouldn't? I have been speaking to people about these tests for 4 years now. I didn't wait until my job was on the line.

Odd, earlier you stated that they were 2 years above, which is it?

 

[brockash]

Here is something I just don't understand. Don't students on IEPS have communication logs? Every single student who receives any type of services and have an IEP have a log between resource/teachers /parents. Isn't there any accountability? This is something that is filled out for every meeting with the child in every district I have been in and the district my kids are currently in. The parents would know if their child isn't receiving services unless the teachers flat out lie in that log. That boggles my mind that whole schools of children can go weeks without services and not one parent would take the school to task for it.

50% is too high. It should be 20-30% and should measure growth not be pass/fail. I still think opting out will do nothing because the message is too muddled. Some are complaining CC and too much teaching to the test, some saying test is too hard, some too high stakes. I just feel like it is all over the place with SO much exaggerating and misinformation that the movement looks like a fad that the people involved don't even understand.

I've never received a weekly or any other kind of hrs. log in terms of my ds's services that were on his IEP (at any of the 3 states we lived in during that time).

There are no logs that exist for this type of thing at the middle or high school that I have interned at (in NY) this year either, so no, unless the students tell their parents, the parents really wouldn't know if they received their services or not.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Odd, earlier you stated that they were 2 years above, which is it?

Both. Early on in our refusals, reading passages were typically 1-2 years ahead. Reports from teachers are coming now that readability level of some passages of this week's tests (this also happened last year) were 3-4 grades ahead. Apparently there is a site that they can check-I don't know much about it but I've seen it referenced. Just today I heard 3rd grade teachers who checked on a couple passages that were rated a readability level of 4th - 7th grade. I'm all for a challenge but all the teachers agreed that the type of language used, the way the questions were phrased were just way beyond the vast majority of the 3rd graders they teach.

I didn't comment at all on High school tests.

 

[nugov2]

Both. Early on in our refusals, reading passages were typically 1-2 years ahead. Reports from teachers are coming now that readability level of some passages of this week's tests (this also happened last year) were 3-4 grades ahead. Apparently there is a site that they can check-I don't know much about it but I've seen it referenced. Just today I heard 3rd grade teachers who checked on a couple passages that were rated a readability level of 4th - 7th grade. I'm all for a challenge but all the teachers agreed that the type of language used, the way the questions were phrased were just way beyond the vast majority of the 3rd graders they teach.

I didn't comment at all on High school tests.

What test are you taking. My 2nd grader had no problems taking the third grade PARCC online practice test. That seems awfully high. Now some questions should be hard for most, that is the point a range of difficulty.

I've never received a weekly or any other kind of hrs. log in terms of my ds's services that were on his IEP (at any of the 3 states we lived in during that time).

There are no logs that exist for this type of thing at the middle or high school that I have interned at (in NY) this year either, so no, unless the students tell their parents, the parents really wouldn't know if they received their services or not.

As far as no communication with resource teachers. ..What a shame. It is a huge part of the program here is ongoing parent communication. Even if it is a simple behavior plan a communication folder goes home. It is fast to fill out but keeps both parents and teachers informed. This is all through middle school. Not sure what happens in high school. Such a shame some parents are in the dark and have no idea if their child is even seeing resource when they are supposed to be.

The DIS continues to make me so thankful my children are where they are.

 

[luvmyfam444]

Smart kids. Because why would you take an unproven test like the PARCC when a certain score on the SAT, a proven test, suffices for graduation.

our state now takes the ACT for juniors & its free!

 

[TaylorEar]

Wow. I'm a school counselor in Texas (was a teacher for 9 years) and this all just blows my mind! We are not a Commom Core state so maybe that's why we missed out on all this. We have state testing, but it does not count toward teacher salaries or students grades (though they do have to pass certain tests to be promoted or graduate). I can't imagine dealing with the things I'm reading here.

If the Texas SB 893 passes teacher evaluations and salaries will be directly tied to STAARS test scores...

 

[IDoDis]

I call BS on that 1st grade teacher article. I stopped reading when she said her students wouldn't receive services for 2 weeks. Right then I knew it was propaganda. It is illegal to violate a child's IEP. There is no way students could be blocked those services for 2 weeks. It is crap like that article that make me question if there isn't an alternative motive behind the opt out. I get some states have taken high stakes to a whole new level and that is why only a few states are seeing this movement, but if you want to be taken seriously in your cause IMO fear mongering doesn't work and that is what these extreme scenarios do and honestly make the people who write them (I am referring to the hypothetical 1st grade teacher not the poster) look unreliable.

This is not propaganda. Testing time with a Special Ed teacher counts as services being rendered. Special Ed teachers don't get to test all of their students for various reasons. Certain accommodations require the students to be placed in different small testing groups. Group A has the math portion read aloud. Group B has extra time which could be all day, meaning that teacher has to escort the students to lunch, stay with them (to make sure they don't talk about the test), and go back to testing room together. Group C get paper/pencil w/ enlarged print, etc... also, many Special Ed teachers teach more than one grade level and can't be with each grade level. With staggered sessions, some teachers have to administer tests for 3 weeks, even though a grade level might only be testing for 6 days. If a student has 10 hours a week on his IEP and spends 10 hours testing with a special Ed teacher, that counts for his services. What the student is missing is instruction to move him forward. There aren't enough teachers to go around to do both. This is a reality.

Also, therapists like SLP's, and OT's have to keep logs to submit for Medicaid reimbursement, but classroom teachers don't keep contact logs.

Legally they cannot even if the actually do it. I believe they do not follow IEPs from time to time without intervention, but nothing on the scale the article is implying. No way they are stopping services for all stdents and reassigning resource teachers to other tasks in a district for 2+ weeks like Mrs. First Grade is implying without a major legal battle on their hands. Don't believe it for one second a district would risk that.

See my post above. This is reality.

This is huge. I teach in 4 elementary schools. One building has many very poor children with rough family lives. Another building is fairly affluent. In the lower income school, my orchestra students don't do nearly as well as the students in the affluent school. I teach the same curriculum, I teach the same way in all four of my schools. It has been this way since I started. No, actually, I have learned that I can expect less of most of my students in the poor school. Things are going to take longer for them to learn. There is always an occasional student who has an awesome background-family support who does well but they are infrequent.

Am I a better teacher at one school than the other? Cuomo has not addressed poverty as being the leading cause of the failing schools in NY state. He chooses to blame teachers. He also claims schools in NY state are failing when in fact, only 4% of schools in our state are failing. 4%! NY has typically been top in the country for education but Cuomo would have everyone believe that we are failing our kids here.

You are spot on. No bragging required that "my school is so wonderful" blah, blah, blah. Move those "wonderfull" teachers with students from homes with high parent involvement to a high poverty school with single parents (several who are incarcerated) and those teachers test scores will tank. All one has to to do to predict the state rankings for test scores from highest to lowest is rank the state's by income. The rankings will be identical when the scores are released in 5 MONTHS. Mark my words.

I agree that the kids are being used as pawns. Every time someone uses the phrase "high stakes testing" on this thread or in linked articles, I cringe. The one issue with AIS aside ( and I agree that is an issue) this testing is not high stakes for the kids, it it high stakes for the teachers. There should be no pressure on the kids for these tests. The only reason there is pressure is because the teachers put it there. The teachers who have done this should be ashamed of themselves. They are putting their own political agenda ahead of the well-being of the children they are teaching. There are other ways to accomplish your goals without using your students as pawns.

Umm, no. The test scores are high stakes for students in some states, too and will be in many ore CC states in a couple of years. Don't think your child will be shielded. Students where I live won't graduate if they don't pass. They have alternative ways to demonstrate competency only AFTER they've taken this"high stakes" test 3 times. $$ Ka-Ching for Pearson!!! These tests are only about the money. That, my friend, is how kids are being used as pawns! Also, no one even knows what the cut scores are yet. A 30% could be deemed a passing score. This isn't about what's best for the kids. It's about what's best for corporations who see public ed funds as an untapped resource. The powers at the top don't care if 70% fail. The higher the failure rate, the more money spent to increase scores. That's why the test is so difficult.

What proof is there of this being 50% of evaluation?

In my state the test scores are also 50% of the evaluation and students scores are tracked for 3 years using a sham VAM "value added" model. So, if Johnny loses his mom to cancer two years from now and tanks on the test due to emotional issues, it impacts the teacher's evaluation score who taught him two years ago. Teacher evaluations this spring are based on last year's scores. Next year's evals will be based on this year's scores and VAM growth from last year's scores and scores from the year before that, even though the tests are completely different and will undoubtedly be lower. Using two different tests to track student growth to evaluate teachersi s comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I agree that the kids are being used as pawns. Every time someone uses the phrase "high stakes testing" on this thread or in linked articles, I cringe. The one issue with AIS aside ( and I agree that is an issue) this testing is not high stakes for the kids, it it high stakes for the teachers. There should be no pressure on the kids for these tests. The only reason there is pressure is because the teachers put it there. The teachers who have done this should be ashamed of themselves. They are putting their own political agenda ahead of the well-being of the children they are teaching. There are other ways to accomplish your goals without using your students as pawns.

The teachers didn't put anything of the sort there. It was put upon them by higher ups, and those with a financial interest in high stakes testing. These are the ones using the students as pawns not the teachers. And in my neck of the woods, these tests are 20% of the grade. Though not as high stakes as some areas, that's pretty darn high stakes. The teachers don't have a choice in the matter.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Something else wrong with these tests at least in NY. Product placement ads within the tests. IBM™, Lego®, FIFA® and Mindstorms™...are part of the readings in the tests- With trademark symbols and footnotesall their distracting the student. Why do they need to do this? Tell me this isn't all about financial gain.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I'm not going to try an act like I know everything about this. I'm still researching and forming my opinion, but what bothers me about it here is this:
There are a lot of great teachers here. Unfortunately there are a TON(not exaggerating...If you know the Capitol District then you know that 80% of Schenectady sucks) of parents who don't care enough to even send their kids to school, much less make sure they are studying, doing homework, feeding them a good breakfast on test days etc. Teachers can only do so much! That is why I feel like the 50% of the teacher's eval is unfair.
You can lead a horse to water...

 

[jodifla]

I would have to know the wording of your ds's IEP to know if they violated it. Does it list his services in minutes per week specifically or as needed. You have to be very careful how you let a school write it and make sure their are no loopholes. Phrasing like as needed is a loophole to allow the school to not provide your child with services when something comes up. If it is written in specific terms and they violated the terms you should do something about it. Otherwise they will continue to take advantage of both you and your child.

I never said it was physically impossible to violate an IEP just it is illegal if they are called on it. It is illegal to steal, but people do it and will continue to do it until they get caught and are punished. Violating the terms of an IEP is stealing from your child. Don't allow it to happen.

ETA

It is also possible they are not providing services to only students who have loosely written IEP'S and it that case they are not violating the terms at all. There is a difference. It is possible that teacher has a class full of kids or are in a district with unaware parents with very loosely written IEP'S, but there will still be some violations if they are pulling resource across the board for 2+ weeks. If I had to guess that teacher who posted her story on facebook is exaggerating the situation, but honestly I think a lot of these stories are being blown our of proportion, the people don't understand the true regulations or being taken out of context. Like the poster from Illinois who said the students had to turn down the test the day it is being administered in front of their peers. The school is lying if that is what they are being told. That is not how it works. Doesn't mean the school isn't trying to scare parents with that to get them to test, but if they researched it they wold see that is not how it works in Illinois. There is just so much misinformation out there.

My son's school gets around this by putting the time in ranges, over a month. So it will read "90 to 120 minutes of OT a month."

 

[sam_gordon]

Something else wrong with these tests at least in NY. Product placement ads within the tests. IBM™, Lego®, FIFA® and Mindstorms™...are part of the readings in the tests- With trademark symbols and footnotesall their distracting the student. Why do they need to do this? Tell me this isn't all about financial gain.

What are you basing the bolded on?

 

[IDoDis]

My son's school gets around this by putting the time in ranges, over a month. So it will read "90 to 120 minutes of OT a month."

Therapies are always entered around here (and in every IEP from out-of-state that I've ever seen) on a per month basis. Typically 3 hrs/month for receptive/expressive language goals equals an hour a week for therapy which allows for some leeway if the student or therapist is absent, or if the therapist has to cancel sessions to attend IEP's. Specialized classroom instruction is shown in minutes or hours per week, not per month. In 23 years I've only seen a range of minutes once -- this year in fact, from an IEP that was written in California. Therapies/classroom instruction can always go over the amount of time, but never under. So giving a range is unnecessary if the student stays five or ten extra minutes to finish something.

 

[nugov2]

My son's school gets around this by putting the time in ranges, over a month. So it will read "90 to 120 minutes of OT a month."

If I remember right ot goals don't have to be defined the same as other services. Obviously every state operates differently, but if a district can operate for 2+ weeks without providing services for students something is wrong in that school and has bigger issues than a test.

 

[Tigerlulu]

Louisiana--my sons school had the highest opt out rate in the state--something like 70%!

 

[nugov2]

This is not propaganda. Testing time with a Special Ed teacher counts as services being rendered. Special Ed teachers don't get to test all of their students for various reasons. Certain accommodations require the students to be placed in different small testing groups. Group A has the math portion read aloud. Group B has extra time which could be all day, meaning that teacher has to escort the students to lunch, stay with them (to make sure they don't talk about the test), and go back to testing room together. Group C get paper/pencil w/ enlarged print, etc... also, many Special Ed teachers teach more than one grade level and can't be with each grade level. With staggered sessions, some teachers have to administer tests for 3 weeks, even though a grade level might only be testing for 6 days. If a student has 10 hours a week on his IEP and spends 10 hours testing with a special Ed teacher, that counts for his services. What the student is missing is instruction to move him forward. There aren't enough teachers to go around to do both. This is a reality.

Also, therapists like SLP's, and OT's have to keep logs to submit for Medicaid reimbursement, but classroom teachers don't keep contact logs.



See my post above. This is reality.




You are spot on. No bragging required that "my school is so wonderful" blah, blah, blah. Move those "wonderfull" teachers with students from homes with high parent involvement to a high poverty school with single parents (several who are incarcerated) and those teachers test scores will tank. All one has to to do to predict the state rankings for test scores from highest to lowest is rank the state's by income. The rankings will be identical when the scores are released in 5 MONTHS. Mark my words.



Umm, no. The test scores are high stakes for students in some states, too and will be in many ore CC states in a couple of years. Don't think your child will be shielded. Students where I live won't graduate if they don't pass. They have alternative ways to demonstrate competency only AFTER they've taken this"high stakes" test 3 times. $$ Ka-Ching for Pearson!!! These tests are only about the money. That, my friend, is how kids are being used as pawns! Also, no one even knows what the cut scores are yet. A 30% could be deemed a passing score. This isn't about what's best for the kids. It's about what's best for corporations who see public ed funds as an untapped resource. The powers at the top don't care if 70% fail. The higher the failure rate, the more money spent to increase scores. That's why the test is so difficult.


In my state the test scores are also 50% of the evaluation and students scores are tracked for 3 years using a sham VAM "value added" model. So, if Johnny loses his mom to cancer two years from now and tanks on the test due to emotional issues, it impacts the teacher's evaluation score who taught him two years ago. Teacher evaluations this spring are based on last year's scores. Next year's evals will be based on this year's scores and VAM growth from last year's scores and scores from the year before that, even though the tests are completely different and will undoubtedly be lower. Using two different tests to track student growth to evaluate teachersi s comparing apples to oranges.

Read what Mrs. First Grade wrote. She said her students, not the ones being tested. I never had kids missing weeks of services due to testing in other grades. That is propaganda or a very broken school in many ways.