Teenage girls - UGH!!

[FireDancer]

I really doubt your 'friends' enjoyed being called wiggers either.

I wouldn't be so sure, some wore it like a badge of honor. I'm sure some people didn't mind being called a jock while others did. Both are just words and you can choose how you interpret them for yourself.

Really? How many black people were called wigger?

I have no idea. For my entire 4 years of high school we had 3 black kids in the school total. Two were two years older than me and they would be classified as nerds without a doubt. They were brother and sister and I swear the character of Carlton on The Fresh Prince was based on them. The other kid was a freshman when I was a senior and I didn't know him at all so I have no idea what he would be classified as.

I do not think it is okay for any white person to use the N word to describe another individual... even in the "playful" form you mentioned.

So it is ok for someone who isn't white to say it? I can not get my head around saying it is ok for someone of one race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever to use a word but no on else can. By doing so you are quite literally saying that there should be different rules for different people based on their race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever. That is the epitome of racism? Equality means everyone has the same rules and the concept of equality is boolean.

Besides, how the heck am I supposed to sing along to all my favorite rap tunes!?!?!?!

Look, I'm said it here a thousand times but words are just words. They in themselves are harmless and have no power. If someone uses them in a threatening way or to degrade you the word isn't the problem, the though or threat behind the word is the problem. I choose to give words no power and will continue to do so. I also don't want to be word policed.

I am not saying I go around using all of the words that are often policed. I sure as heck use some of them but whether or not I use them is down to me and situation I am in and nothing else. If some particular word crosses a line for you by all means don't use it. I would never tell anyone else where their line should be but I expect the same in return. This, and just about everything I post unless I cite it as fact, is just my opinion. You are free to disagree and I'm not looking to change anyone's opinion, just to put my POV out there.

 

[Mysteria]

I wouldn't be so sure, some wore it like a badge of honor. I'm sure some people didn't mind being called a jock while others did. Both are just words and you can choose how you interpret them for yourself.

I have no idea. For my entire 4 years of high school we had 3 black kids in the school total. Two were two years older than me and they would be classified as nerds without a doubt. They were brother and sister and I swear the character of Carlton on The Fresh Prince was based on them. The other kid was a freshman when I was a senior and I didn't know him at all so I have no idea what he would be classified as.

That speak volumes on why you'd think that term was ok all this time. You lived in a world that wouldn't challenge that thinking!!

 

[Mama-san]

I'm not getting a clear picture of how the BF responded verbally during these situtions. Did he just sit there and listen to crap talk with no response? Just curious. I can understand the OP's frustration with her daughter having to deal with somebody the caliber of this "good friend".

 

[mariamouse]

So it is ok for someone who isn't white to say it? I can not get my head around saying it is ok for someone of one race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever to use a word but no on else can. By doing so you are quite literally saying that there should be different rules for different people based on their race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever. That is the epitome of racism? Equality means everyone has the same rules and the concept of equality is boolean.

Besides, how the heck am I supposed to sing along to all my favorite rap tunes!?!?!?!

I do not think it is appropriate for white people to throw the term around loosely since we were not the race so severely oppressed by it. Given that blacks are all members of the group at which this word was targeted, I think it is up to them to decide whether or not they wish to use it. For some African Americans, the word represents a sense of camaraderie and an understanding of shared historical oppression. One might say that they even use the word among themselves to take away its power to hurt and demean when white people use it. But when whites try to use the word in the ways blacks do, it simply lacks authenticity. Of course, there are also African Americans that are deeply offended by any mention of the word. I do not really think this is a case in which reverse racism applies, but this is all just my opinion.

And I think that the use of ****** in singing along with a rapper's lyrics is a bit different than actually hurling it at an individual.

 

[alaskagirlchrissie]

I don't think 14 year olds should even be dating. Way to young for that sort of drama. They are still kids for goodness sakes!

 

[hambirg]

I wouldn't be so sure, some wore it like a badge of honor. I'm sure some people didn't mind being called a jock while others did. Both are just words and you can choose how you interpret them for yourself.



I have no idea. For my entire 4 years of high school we had 3 black kids in the school total. Two were two years older than me and they would be classified as nerds without a doubt. They were brother and sister and I swear the character of Carlton on The Fresh Prince was based on them. The other kid was a freshman when I was a senior and I didn't know him at all so I have no idea what he would be classified as.



So it is ok for someone who isn't white to say it? I can not get my head around saying it is ok for someone of one race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever to use a word but no on else can. By doing so you are quite literally saying that there should be different rules for different people based on their race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/whatever. That is the epitome of racism? Equality means everyone has the same rules and the concept of equality is boolean.

Besides, how the heck am I supposed to sing along to all my favorite rap tunes!?!?!?!

Look, I'm said it here a thousand times but words are just words. They in themselves are harmless and have no power. If someone uses them in a threatening way or to degrade you the word isn't the problem, the though or threat behind the word is the problem. I choose to give words no power and will continue to do so. I also don't want to be word policed. I am not saying I go around using all of the words that are often policed. I sure as heck use some of them but whether or not I use them is down to me and situation I am in and nothing else.

I'm really shocked by the responses here.

In no way, shape or form is it EVER ok to respond with violence to words. There just words! Someone can call me the most vile, heinous word you can think of, but if I don't give them the power to upset me, then it's just a word.

I do teach my kids to stick up for themselves. If they're having a war of words, then go for. . .give a verbal smack down, call them out, verbally humiliate them. But NEVER resort to violence. If the other kid swings on them, then they have the right to defend themselves.

I find it weird that a lot of people are up in arms over the use of wigger. I'm not familiar with the word, so it might be very derogatory. However the OP, an adult, calls the other girl a little *****, says she would have ripped her head off and shoved it up her ***, and then says her DD threatened the girl with "you're deadmeat." But that's ok? It was justified? Not in my world!

I still want to know why this other girl is angry with the bf. But the OP hasn't answered that. I'm betting there is quite the back story here, and I'm also willing to bet this isn't all one sided with the DD being the "victim."

 

[mariamouse]

Does that not just highlight the point that the problem isn't the word but the intent behind the word when it is used?

As I mentioned, I feel that even jokingly calling someone a "wigger" is directing the term at an individual and, thus, is not okay. That is where we differ. Of course the intent in singing along with lyrics to oneself is different.

 

[hambirg]

As I mentioned, I feel that even jokingly calling someone a "wigger" is directing the term at an individual and, thus, is not okay. That is where we differ. Of course the intent in singing along with lyrics to oneself is different.

But does it matter what word was used? It's not ok to respond with physical violence to words. Try that as an adult. "Gee officer, that lady in the club called me a ****, so I punched her in the face." Guess who's going to jail? And this whole attitude that being offended by words is justification for violence is how we wind up with things like road rage. "Gee officer, that other driver flipped me off. It made me really mad, so I pulled over at the next stop, got out of my car and shot him."

Not ok!

 

[mariamouse]

But does it matter what word was used? It's not ok to respond with physical violence to words. Try that as an adult. "Gee officer, that lady in the club called me a ****, so I punched her in the face." Guess who's going to jail? And this whole attitude that being offended by words is justification for violence is how we wind up with things like road rage. "Gee officer, that other driver flipped me off. It made me really mad, so I pulled over at the next stop, got out of my car and shot him."

Not ok!

Of course not- I completely agree with you! Violence and threats are never okay and I would be livid if any of my (future) children ever resorted to them. Hence my telling the OP that she should absolutely not be consoling her daughter with chocolate.

The purpose of my posts has simply been to express my disagreement with some posters' statements that "wigger" is "just a word" and should not evoke anger.

 

[hambirg]

Of course not- I completely agree with you! Violence and threats are never okay and I would be livid if any of my (future) children ever resorted to them. Hence my telling the OP that she should absolutely not be consoling her daughter with chocolate.

The purpose of my posts has simply been to express my disagreement with some posters' statements that "wigger" is "just a word" and should not evoke anger.

Ok, fair enough.

My point was that words are just words. Once you let the other person know that their words cut, you've conceded to them. So in this OP's situation I would have been livid at my DD. Don't let what other people say to you, rile you. Just assume they are an idiot and laugh. My DD is the queen of the verbal smack down and the very few times somebody has wanted to get into it with her, they've backed down quickly. If they are too stupid to realize that you are verbally humiliating them, then just ignore them. Even the most dense person realizes when they are being ignored and deemed insignificant. KWIM?

ETA- I'm admittedly bored tonight. . insomnia will be the death of me. But yeah, I did a little digging and OP's DD sure seems to be the random target of bullies a lot. I have a hard time believing that anybody is just that unlucky.

 

[Tiger926]

I would have issues with a school district that refered to the lunch monitor or aide as a "warden."

The OP called her a warden. As educators and school board employees, we don't refer to assistants, monitors, etc. as "wardens".

Regarding the suggestions you have given your DD on how to handle the situation:

Is there any chance you told her NOT to be Facebook friends with this girl?

Let me guess, they text each other, as well?

It sounds like your DD and this girl have had a volatile relationship for awhile now. I'm willing to bet both girls have exchanged IM's/texts that just fueled the fire and it spilled over at school.

How could this girl go on and on for 20 minutes at lunch and the "warden" didn't notice especially since you state they weren't allowed to leave their seats?

Seriously, I get so tired of reading about kids getting into it on FB. Block the offender. If you can't do that, you are part of the problem not the solution.

Exactly! It's called engagement. As soon as texts or FB comments are responded to, and not blocked, the relationship will continue, as you have engaged the other person into some type of relationship.

I have students who are cyberbullied outside of school, and the police are very frank about what they need to do, yet most of them refuse to stop posting on FB or returning the texts. Most teens, especially girls, are very into the drama of reading the messages, forwarding them on, and commenting on FB, despite the fact that some of these messages are threatening, embarassing and harassing. My students love to tell me what so and so posted about them, as it's part of the whole social media context for so many of them.

Like I said already, the OP sounds like one of my students with the texting to her daughters' friends, FB comments and her phrases. It sounds like they are quite immersed in that whole teen drama culture in their household, and so I hope it doesn't get any worse.

We can't control other people's actions, but we can control our own...

Bullying!
Some kids are just nasty pieces of work.

If I were your DD I would have most likely acted the same as she did (in fact I did).

Bullying is not ok, and i'm not with others who say you "shouldn't resort to violence".

She was threatened!

I would approach the school about all the issues, the lunchroom, the bus, the schoolyard, they have a duty of care, your DD should not feel threatened at school.
It's not ok!

Yes, OP needs to discuss this with school. We might not be getting the whole story though, so it would be interesting to see how the lunch monitor handled it, did bus driver make a report, etc.?

I would say --- unless your daughter is physically threatened - STAY OUT OF IT. you will only make it worse.

No. Once the OP's daughter retaliated, she is now involved. OP's daughter is a minor, and so since she lives at home with mom, mom is responsible.

In my province, it's under 18 years old, so I speak to parents each day about this sort of behaviour with 18 year olds, as by law, I am mandated to do so. A 14 year old is still very young, and her mom needs to be involved, but it would depend upon how involved and to what degree based on the whole entire story.

I still don't feel like we have heard the whole story. OP only knows what the teens told her, and what her daughter told her. There are more sides to this story...when you deal with teenagers all day, you learn very quickly that there are many sides to each and every story.

Tiger

 

[craftymama71]

I don't think 14 year olds should even be dating. Way to young for that sort of drama. They are still kids for goodness sakes!

Oh I am so with you! I have aDD who is 14 next week and she is not remotely interested in dating. And if she were I don't think I'd be allowing it.

 

[mhsjax]

While you may be ok with it, the authorities may not. I couldn't disagree with your post more.

Problem is, these same authorities have a problem with defending yourself even though you could be getting the crap beat out of you. I have no real respect for these "authorities". Not saying what the op's DD did was exactly right, but I sure wouldn't defend the "authorities" in this case.

 

[mhsjax]

I missed that part. What in the world is a lunch warden?

YOu guys don't know what a "lunch warden" is. This is the person that insure kids aren't allowed to do ANYTHING. I have seem them in action, usually the rotten mis behaving kids go on about their business and the ones talking or just having some fun get busted. I volunteer a lot in the lunch room, or I did, we all used the exact same term for these people on power trips.

 

[Jedana]

YOu guys don't know what a "lunch warden" is. This is the person that insure kids aren't allowed to do ANYTHING. I have seem them in action, usually the rotten mis behaving kids go on about their business and the ones talking or just having some fun get busted. I volunteer a lot in the lunch room, or I did, we all used the exact same term for these people on power trips.

DS had one of those last year. The kids weren't allowed to talk in the lunch room at all; sit down, eat, clean up and wait until your time was up. He's come home with notes (talking in the lunch room). /sigh

Kids need time to be kids. They need the social interaction.
So, no, he didn't get in trouble for talking at lunch. In class, during learn time, yes. during eating time, no.

 

[mhsjax]

DS had one of those last year. The kids weren't allowed to talk in the lunch room at all; sit down, eat, clean up and wait until your time was up. He's come home with notes (talking in the lunch room). /sigh

Kids need time to be kids. They need the social interaction.
So, no, he didn't get in trouble for talking at lunch. In class, during learn time, yes. during eating time, no.

Yep, none of my kids have ever gotten into any trouble at school. In fact their teachers say they are extremely well behaved. Not perfect in all areas mind you, I have a couple of grades this 9 weeks that I am not too happy with. lol But those lunch warden do exist and they refuse to et the kids utter a word, they are nasty, mean and foul. Luckily, all the parents and volunteers know it, we just pretty much blow them off as ladies with no life.

 

[Alsobrook]

Teenage drama, I see it hasn't changed since I was in HS

Yeah it has.... wanna know how?

If your mother or father had heard about this crap, they would have picked up the phone, called the other girl's parents, reported the matter directly, suggested a pow wow, and the other girl's parents, instead of cowering behind their little precious, would have gone into the girl's room and said, "so and so's mother just called and you have some explaining to do, missy."

Then they would have read her the riot act, made her get dressed in conservative attire, driven her to your home, made her get out of the car and go into your home where she would be expected to apologize to you, your mother, and your father. And your mother and father would have been able to actually talk directly to her and tell her how disappointed they were, that they thought the two of you were friends, that if they ever heard about this kind of behavior again, the two of you would not spend any more time together, and that they have never heard of such viciousness. And the two of you would have the chance to sort of talk it out. And all the while, no one would mention a syndrome that she has or talk about some incident in her childhood that made her this way.... it would be understood that her behavior was shameful and insulting and would be corrected "or else."

Then the girl's parents would have taken her home, where she would have written letters of apology to you and your parents. And they might have even had a meeting at the school (because the school might have even called them by now and suggested they come in) and the parents would have actually taken the lead in the conversation with the principal in saying that her behavior was unacceptable and that they backed the school completely. And the principal would have leaned over the table and said, "And I don't think we'll have any more trouble out of you, now will we." And she would have said, "No, sir."

And she would be ashamed of herself, but with the passage of time, things might improve a bit, but she damn sure wouldn't say that kind of crap again.

But other than that, you're right, Teenage Drama is pretty much the same.

 

[Alsobrook]

YOu guys don't know what a "lunch warden" is. This is the person that insure kids aren't allowed to do ANYTHING. I have seem them in action, usually the rotten mis behaving kids go on about their business and the ones talking or just having some fun get busted. I volunteer a lot in the lunch room, or I did, we all used the exact same term for these people on power trips.

When I was in middle school, our vice principal, Mr. Little (who was anything but) sort of presided over lunch. He was nice enough, but he had a microphone... one of the old school table top ones with the wide base... and he's point and call out the bad behavior and tell kids to quiet down. On the rare occasion that things might get out of hand...he'd do his best, and then SHE would come in...

Olive Scott.... looked about 6 feet tall. Tight Grey Hair. Permanent Scowl. And one of those voices that went right through you.

She'd grab the microphone a la Rambo in the second movie when he says, "I'm comin' for you." And she'd lean in and let out a thundering boom of "I EXPECT THIS ROOM TO RETURN TO QUIET OR WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM."

And if there was a fight or something.... kids would literally freeze mid punch and then drop the thing altogether.... because one time, Ms. Scott appeared out of nowhere and she collared two boys and drug them out of the lunch room all the way to the office, and we didn't see them again for like a week. And when they came back, they both looked like they'd lost weight and acted like they'd been lobotomized.

Olive Scott - Lunch Room Warden Extraordinaire.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think they should sit down, face to face, on the Jerry Springer show. I can't even imagine dd15 having a friend who would act like that, and I can't imagine her lunging, screaming and punching. I assume my dd's friends resent her bf somewhat, since they are glued to the hip, but they're all polite, just the same.

 

[dngnb8]

Not really...Like Firedancer said...we used it to classify...If you smoked pot you are a stoner...if you play sports you are a jock...same thing. That's not making fun of someone.

Yes it is making fun of someone

Hip Hop and Rap originated from black culture. The dress, the way they walk, the way they perform, the dialect etc. The wearing of pants at the knees is something that started from Hip Hop and has grown to most kids doing it. Michael Mathers is the first real white rapper with any real measure of success.

I think it was Sister Act II where one of the students who was white, was acting like the rest of the class (mostly black). Im not saying they shouldnt, act that way. There is nothing that says Culture is restricted to color etc.

But the word, Wigger is a slang that combines White with the ******. ****** is a racial slur. If you called a young black child ******, all hell would break lose. I grew up hearing Wop and Dago as a kid. Im Italian. Dago is the equivalent of ****** for blacks. This would be like calling a Black person a Nago for acting Italian.

It is a word whose etymology is seeded in racism, hate, bigotry prejudice et al. Ignore that etymology, and you perpetuate the hate

Oh and btw, when we called kids Stoners in school, it wasnt a compliment. Being a Jock typically meant you were good at sports, and not at thinking.

Most labels (especially where kids are concerned) originate with a negative connotation. And dont turn a blind eye to them, kids use them with the hate intended, then they play innocent and say, "It's just a word, it doesnt mean anything"