Teachers... why?

[miss missy]

I don't think that we necessarily have the entire story on this situation. Sometimes one person's perception doesn't include all the relevant information of any given situation. I think that if a parent is upset about something that happens at school it is wise to contact the teacher directly.

IMHO I don't believe it's a good idea to encourage a child to be defiant to authority. Most teachers are very reasonable.

I don't either believe it's a good idea to encourage a child to be defiant to authority, but like your example, there is a time you have to act.

 

[Karel]

Thats just it. I picture something bad, was he calling about something going on at home that he was too embarrassed to say out loud in front of the other kids? I mean come on, it could be anything! MOST Teen boys don't usually chit chat on the phone, let alone to their parents during school.

Mmm, I have two teenage boys and while their phone calls have mostly been replaced by IM and text messaging....yeah, they can chit chat on the phone with the best of them. Mostly, "it's what do you want to do? What do you want to do? You're weird - shut up, you're gross."

They call me at work for the most trivial things...like I need a cake for a party two days away....and can I go to soandso's house on the weekend.

 

[miss missy]

My point: Don't judge the teacher without knowing the whole story. Teachers juggle a huge number of things constantly, and students aren't aware of all of them. It could be that the teacher knew the drug dogs were out at the lockers and students weren't allowed to be in the hallways. It could be that this particular student has been asking to leave class constantly. Any number of things could have been going on.

I am not judging anyone. And no this kid is a good kid and never has shown a sign of trouble before, thats my point.

 

[miss missy]

I totally understand and agree that each school and community is different. However, the OP's DD seemed to feel that this was an issue, which would indicate, that this does not happen everyday. If this was an ongoing situation, the DD would probably not have addressed in with mom.

It seems moot to discuss a situation that we will never have all the facts about. I guess I like my corner of the world where most kids would never think to use the phone as a ploy. I like living in LALA land.

LOL me too!

 

[miss missy]

When a middle schooler is upset, we send them to guidance. We let guidance make the decision. When a middle schooler is sick, we send them to the nurse and let the nurse make the decision. The child isn't the one to make the decision to call home.

A teacher has protocols to follow. No child should be denied a need especially if he/she is upset. Having said that, I've seen plenty of kids ask to use the bathroom, ask to get a drink and ask to go to their locker during the course of one block. Obviously, they just can't settle into their work routine. I never deny use of a bathroom unless it's every day of the week. Then I address it and try to find out from other teachers if this is a child's MO. If it is, it's stopped.

You are right. He asked to go to the office which is where the people there could of sent him into guidance which is... right there in the office. I would of been fine with that.

 

[miss missy]

Agreed, but from the OP I got the impression that the child had used the phone several times already. There really is no reason that the child needs to make that many calls. If he is sick then the nurse or school will call, if he couldn't reach a parent then he should leave a message. There's just no reason that a child needs to run to the office and call home repeatedly.

I think what has bothered me and several others is the assumption that the teacher is an ogre and that children should feel justified to just get up and leave. I just don't get the idea of parents telling their child that is is OK to break the rules.

Like you and other posters have said we just don't know all the details. The child may have had a very valid reason that he needed to leave the room and the teacher was wrong OR the teacher may have had a very valid reason for saying no, we just don't know.

Yep he did and obviously didn't get through or didn't get what he needed, what if he was trying to reach his Mom who never came home the night before or something?? I dunno, but he was clearly upset and needed comfort, not embarrassment.

 

[miss missy]

I have to assume that the OP's DD is a 7th grader also. As a student of what, 12 or 13 years old, I'm sure she didn't have all the info available as no one here does either. Teachers are human beings. I don't know about the perfect world of the DIS, but when I was growing up, I was taught respect for my elders and those in authority. Do situations happen that shouldn't? Absolutely. Are there power figures who have abused that power? You betcha. But that doesn't make it acceptable to paint everyone with so wide a brush. When this child goes against the rules and leaves the school, ditches through a side door and is hit by an oncoming car while crossing the street, I wonder who will be at fault? Well...of course the school will because the teacher had no control and the kids are given free reign. I am amazed at the people I see here who strongly advocate disobeying the rules because it doesn't suit them. Right or wrong, the teacher is responsible for each student in that class, and for what happens to them outside of that classroom when they are under her watch. We already live in a world where everyone seems to have entitlement issues and authority issues and we are just pushing our kids to the next level. While teaching your kids to respect themselves, teach them a little respect for others while your at it. I wonder if this 7th grader cried because he couldn't pool hop if the OP would be so fast to say "do it....there must be a good reason, I mean he's a teenager and we all know they have it completely together."

DD was in the class, she watched it happen!

 

[miss missy]

It's obvious here that NO ONE knows the true reason why the boy wanted to call home. Maybe, just maybe...the teacher DID know. You can't say one way or another if the boy should/should not have been allowed to call without knowing the facts.

With that said....I find the "blame the teacher" mentality that goes on in our society to be disgusting. Yes, there are some teachers who are not the best at their jobs. BUT, what about the children who are being raised with no respect for their own parents let alone the classroom teacher. I would challenge any one of you who feels you know it all about everything that goes on in a classroom to spend a week teaching in a public school. I'm sure you'd come to a very different conclusion. Teaching your child that they are always right and they are the victim of the "mean" teacher (or anyone who tells them "no" for that matter) is doing them a real disservice.

We love teachers. Its not always blame the teacher!! But sometimes they are wrong, they are human right??

 

[miss missy]

Many teachers and schools have a policy about when students can leave the room. Our school policy is that no student may be given a pass 15 minutes after or prior to class change or dismissal.
What you did by telling your daughter to walk out and go to the office just took control of the classroom out of the hands of the teacher. This is a big part of why teachers can no longer control the classroom. Parents who give their children permission to go against the teacher. You just opened up a can of worms for the teachers. If you want your child to be able to go against the teachers instructions do the school a favor and take them out of school and teach them yourself. When you send your child to school you are giving the school and the teachers permission to make rules that the kids must follow. Walking out of the classroom without permission is unacceptible in any circumstance. If it were my student they would have been written up for discipline and I would not accept them back into the classroom until I had spoken with the parents.
Other times when we don't give passes are lock-down, tests, FCATs, PSAT, mid-terms, finals and other occasions determined by the principal as well as during lunch ( split lunch). Personally I am pretty lenient with giving passes as long as the student gives me a good reason. The bathroom pass sits on my desk and they only need to ask politely as long as I am not trying to give instructions or lecturing. Classroom phone is available to call parents if needed. But don't walk out without permission because I will write you up and give you a failing grade for the day.

Ok can you think extreme problem. If my DD was to make that choice, she sure as heck would only do it in an emergency. See I DO teach my child, I teach her just fine thank you.

Are the ones here are getting upset are the ones who can't control the classroom? You don't think it was a distraction for all the kids to watch the boy cry and know something was seriously wrong??

 

[Tigger Fans!]

Yep he did and obviously didn't get through or didn't get what he needed, what if he was trying to reach his Mom who never came home the night before or something?? I dunno, but he was clearly upset and needed comfort, not embarrassment.

This raises a couple of questions for me. How did the other students know? Did he ask during instructional time in front of the class? Something just isn't adding up for me -- but then again I wasn't there.

 

[miss missy]

This raises a couple of questions for me. How did the other students know? Did he ask during instructional time in front of the class? Something just isn't adding up for me -- but then again I wasn't there.

They all change classes so I am sure some saw him ask in other classes. That many attemps says something to me.

 

[barkley]

i don't know what was happening with the kid in the op, but based on my experiences as a teacher, parent and long ago student -generaly if a kid has used the office phone to call home more than once in the same day 'someone' knows what the issue is. most schools don't allow kids to use the phone without some form of explanation-and if it's a major issue that they believe the student has a pressing need to reach a parent on but for whatever reason can't-they will try to help them (most schools have forms with an emergency contact number or a message number-the school will call it and say 'x is trying to reach his mom/dad-can you get word to them to call and we will retrieve him from class').

both schools my kids have gone to had policies wherein if a student asked to call home they had to give at least a general reason (privatly) to the teacher-it could be as little as the word 'hygene' (for the girls who have had a staining accident). if the student said they were ill-they were referred to the nurse who made the decision. both schools allowed the kids one instance (in a school year) of calling for a forgotten book, assignment, gym clothes, lunch...-and when the kids called, the office person concluded the call by talking to the parent, asking if they would be bringing the item (had to drop it off at the office-where it would be delivered to the student, they did'nt get more time out of class to retrieve it)-and reminding the parent of the policy. if there was a call for any other reason, the office staff member dialed the number, identified themself and then handed over the phone to the student (first telling the parent not to hang up when done)-the student communicated the information, and then the staff member would ask the parent the disposition of the call (would they be picking the child up for some reason, did they want the child to call back, would they need to call back to speak to the child). that way the staff could be aware if there was a need for more than one call on an issue. some parents/students saw it as personaly intrusive, but it did curtail kids making unneccesary calls-or misleading a teacher into thinking the parent wanted the child to make subsequent calls about an issue.

i did'nt realize how some kids are so quick to call parents about minor issues that they believe are 'emergencies' until i supervised a unit made up largly of women with kids. we had private phone lines but if the line was busy or we were away from our desks the call flipped to voice mail that gave the unit's emergency by-pass number. i could'nt believe the number of calls people got from their kids during school hours that they honestly thought their parents would leave work to address-forgotten stuff for after school activites, did'nt like what THEY chose to wear to school that day-wanted a change of clothes, permission slips for stuff a week off (and not due back yet), were 'too upset to concentrate because x who used to be my bff did'nt sit with me on the bus' or 'my life is over-i did'nt get invited to y's party'-or my 'favorite'-"i don't like what i packed for lunch-can you go to macdonalds/applebees/olive garden to pick up the order I ALREADY CALLED IN?". i heard women repeatedly tell their kids not to call them, tell the school not to let the kids call unless it was a REAL emergency-but some of the schools just let those kids call as much as they wanted.

as far as the op-and some people's concern that with a boy it might be a bigger issue (because of the tears), i don't nesc. buy into that-some boys have figured out that's great manipulative tool-i've encountered 3 boys at dd's school in the last few years who were very quick to 'turn on the tears' when things did'nt go their way (they learned getting hostile got them in trouble-tears got them 'time to calm down-regroup'-also got them pegged by the girls as 'sensitive/in touch with their feelings' ). 1 of them used it to such an extent that his mom thought he could'nt handle separation from her-so she arranged her work schedual such that she could spend full days with him in the classroom (this was an 8th grader)-she sat at his side to encourage him while he did his work-in actuality she was doing the bulk of the work and when the school came down on it-she decided to pull him out, after a few other schools actualy kicked the kid out (when tears did'nt work he reverted back to hostility) she chose homeschooling where he only does what 'his gentle soul desires' (when he comes back for visits he openly brags to the other kids that 'turning on the tears always works' ). we've got a couple of others that immediatly use tears when confronted with any issue-and their parents use it as an excuse for any bad behaviour ('he's an emotional boy-and he can't be responisible for his actions when he's upset like that' ). i think some boys have finaly clued into using tears just as many girls do.

i think both parents and students need to be aware of their school's policy on using the phone, and if an issue is going on that might cause a kid to want (vs need) to call home-clue the staff in. it does'nt have to be detailed information, just an idea of what's happening. i know when i got sick my ds was realy paranoid about leaving me alone (i had a stroke while he was at school)-so we clued the school in and asked if he requested to call and check in on me he be allowed to do so, but only once per day-we knew he could'nt concentrate if his mind was elsewhere, but we did'nt want him to get into the habit of thinking the school phone was for anything but emergent needs.

 

[Mermaid02]

I have a couple more to those who tell their kids to just go. Is it just this one rule that you tell your child they can break or are there others? I mean, if you or your child feel the homework is meaningless do they have to do it? Or if the rule is that there is no eating in the classroom and your child missed breakfast do you tell them that they can eat in the room? Or how about, if the rule is to sit quietly and your child is feeling chatty do you just tell them to go ahead and talk? Seriously, where is the line?

From another parent whose child has wet his pants when told "no" he can't go to the bathroom. You better believe I have told him he can leave. There isn't much that is more humiliating to a child than wetting their pants in front of their peers.

As far as the OP.... I agree. The boy should have been able to use the phone. My guess is there was something going on in the family that he was worried about. Maybe a parent is very ill, or a grandparent. One 7th grader using the phone isn't going to cause all the 7th graders to ask the teacher to use the phone. The teacher was unreasonable.

 

[castleview]

I think you have to trust the teachers judgement at the end of the day she/he is the professional in the classroom and is in charge of the class. You may not know the full background on this and you were not in the class and you very probably don't know the full story, prehaps something happend at the beginning of the day which you are no aware of, plus all kids cry...cool or not. Plus i don't think it's your job really to worry on that particular situation it's that child's parents.

 

[MushyMushy]

Interesting scenario here. I have a few thoughts on it.

In both of the schools where I'm student teaching, they have very liberal rules in place for bathroom use. There's a sign-out sheet on the desk with a hall pass, and the kids just basically get up and go (this is in the high school). Only one kid at a time can be out. Usually if someone is waiting 2nd or 3rd in line, they just forget about it and don't go. At the middle school, it's pretty much the same thing, only the teacher initials the pass. I have yet to see any kid abuse it! Maybe it's because they know it's available to them IF they need it, and they don't really have to push the envelope.

Regarding the incident with the student phone call, personally, I would have just let the office deal with it, BUT if the office had already told me "don't let this kid come down here again," what's a person to do? How do we know that's not what happened?

I just think there is an awful lot of jumping to conclusions here.

And I am also a parent who has told my child to get up and leave if necessary. My DS (yes, the bad one who very well could have abused this privilege) had horrible chronic constipation for years up until the past couple of years. He was under a doctor's care for it and was taking laxatives and stool softeners every day. Even though we let the school know this, some of the teachers didn't believe him because of his bad behavior. So, with support from the nurse and the guidance office, I told him that if he EVER had to go that bad, he was to just walk out of the room and go straight to the nurse's office to use her restroom. But he also knew that if he abused that, there would be hell to pay at home.

He never once walked out of the classroom.

Let's face it, it would be nice to believe that all teachers are caring professionals, but that's certainly not the case. On the other hand, when we don't know all the details of a situation and only hear it from the point of view of a student, I wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions.

 

[MrsPete]

i did'nt realize how some kids are so quick to call parents about minor issues that they believe are 'emergencies' until i supervised a unit made up largly of women with kids. we had private phone lines but if the line was busy or we were away from our desks the call flipped to voice mail that gave the unit's emergency by-pass number. i could'nt believe the number of calls people got from their kids during school hours that they honestly thought their parents would leave work to address-forgotten stuff for after school activites, did'nt like what THEY chose to wear to school that day-wanted a change of clothes, permission slips for stuff a week off (and not due back yet), were 'too upset to concentrate because x who used to be my bff did'nt sit with me on the bus' or 'my life is over-i did'nt get invited to y's party'-or my 'favorite'-"i don't like what i packed for lunch-can you go to macdonalds/applebees/olive garden to pick up the order I ALREADY CALLED IN?". i heard women repeatedly tell their kids not to call them, tell the school not to let the kids call unless it was a REAL emergency-but some of the schools just let those kids call as much as they wanted.

MOST of the calls kids ask to make at school are for things like this! Am I going to Dad's house this weekend? (asked on Tuesday) I was supposed to turn in my track uniform yesterday since the season is over -- could you bring it to me? (um, it's already late; what's one more day?) I forgot my lunch -- again. Or even, I packed a ham sandwich today, and I've decided I'd rather buy lunch -- could you bring me some money?

And I have seen kids CRY over things no more important than this. I understand that to them, at that moment, knowing whether their red sweatshirt is clean IS important . . . but helping them grasp the difference between essential and non-essential is part of the educational experience. Helping them understand that you do your work first, then you think about where you're going for dinner tonight is a part of growing up.

I stand by the idea that with the information given here, we cannot judge whether the teacher was right or wrong. We don't know whether these phone call requests are an ongoing thing, we don't know whether the parent /office had given the teacher any specific directions for this student. We just don't know.

 

[MrsPete]

They all change classes so I am sure some saw him ask in other classes. That many attemps says something to me.

As a teacher, it doesn't say a thing to me. Some kids play this game -- the I'll keep poking until I find a reason that'll get me out of class game.

I wrote in a previous post that I had a kid last Friday who was determined to leave my class. First he needed to go to the office to check on fees, then he needed to go call his mom, then it was something else -- I forget what. He wasted 40 minutes of class trying to get out of class, and the whole time I was giving him the same answer: When you have done this set of 10 beginning-of-class questions, I will allow you to do what you want to do. He literally spent 40 minutes trying to manipulate me instead of simply answering 10 simple questions on the last night's reading. When he finally gave up and started his work, it was done in minutes -- but, of course, the class had already moved on by that point, and he'd missed several other important things.

 

[daisyduck123]

I have actually managed not to respond to this thread for 8 pages....I can't believe it, but being a teacher myself, I'm finally going to jump in here. For all of the posters saying the teacher was in the wrong here...we absolutely do not have enough info. on the situation to pass judgement on the teacher.
There are so many "what ifs?" to this scenario.

But one statement in the OP's post should be a clue...the student had already been to the office SEVERAL times to call.

 

[MrsPete]

And I am also a parent who has told my child to get up and leave if necessary. My DS (yes, the bad one who very well could have abused this privilege) had horrible chronic constipation for years up until the past couple of years. He was under a doctor's care for it and was taking laxatives and stool softeners every day. Even though we let the school know this, some of the teachers didn't believe him because of his bad behavior. So, with support from the nurse and the guidance office, I told him that if he EVER had to go that bad, he was to just walk out of the room and go straight to the nurse's office to use her restroom. But he also knew that if he abused that, there would be hell to pay at home.

On the first day of school, I ask my students to fill out an information sheet about themselves; one of the questions is "Do you have any medical needs that I should know about?" If your son had let me know ahead of time -- and especially if you'd also called to let me know that this was a problem -- I'd have no problem believing him.

The key issue in this particular case is that you say the teachers didn't believe him because of his bad behavior. Bad behavior does tend to taint a teacher's perception of a student. That's a whole different ballgame.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

No I am not kidding! She should of taken him out to the hall in private and asked! I am SURE as heck he didn't want to say with everyone listening! I don't give a hoot about how many kids ask, if one is that upset, darn it let him go! As the teacher and as an adult, one should be able to determine how to deal with this stuff!

I agree, the teacher should have atleast taken the child into the hallway to find out what the problem was.