Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[kaytieeldr]

Can't bite my tongue any longer.

What scares me the most about this thread is the rather large percentage of "professed" educators and teachers on here using such poor spelling and poor grammar. I know it's just a chat room, but...

Some people's' are shore pashnut bout them schooling's awrihgt.

While not all educators are English majors, I'm noticing comparable errors from the posters/parents claiming family memories are more important than education.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Also, spelling is not the be-all and end-all to knowledge.

True - spelling is not. But usage IS important. A simple one I've seen a couple of times here is saying "effect" when the poster means "affect" - and that can't be attributed to a typo. If you want to blame it on spelling, well, they're genuinely two different words with distinct meanings - not to mention, one's a verb while the other's a noun (and yes, I do know which is which ).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Years ago DD was going to miss 4days for WDW 2 each week. Teacher had her so upset about missing she didnt want to even go. Taunted her into making us cancel. Sent a note to me bout if every kid took time off there would be no kids in school, thats what summer is for etc.. She ruined our trip no less. Well fast forward a few months DD started talking about sub techer alot.I finally ? her well MRS X happened to be on maternity leave for the rest of the school year. Well I went to great lenths to get her phone number and told her off. I said how dare you have a baby during school that is what summer is for . What if every teacher got knocked up and took off the whole year Iwould have to quit my job and homeschool. Boy did I give her HE??LL.

Am I reading this right? You're comparing an optional trip to Disney with being pregnant and giving birth?????????????????

You may have been fortunate enough to 'time' your pregnancy; not all women have that ability or luxury. Some women "just happen to" get pregnant at inconvenient times of the year - even when it may interfere with their respective jobs.

 

[Minniemama350]

Seems to me if someone has taken that much maternity leave they must have had complications. Not sure I'd brag about badgering someone with a problem or a sick baby.

 

[LauraAnn630]

2 of our teachers took off a school year when they had babies. They didnt have any complications they just wanted to be with there babies.

The teacher shouldn't of said anything to the child. Its not up to an individual teacher.

Some parents cant "time" family vacations. Not all parents have that ability and luxury.

Just playing devils advocate.

 

[Minnie_me]

Years ago DD was going to miss 4days for WDW 2 each week. Teacher had her so upset about missing she didnt want to even go. Taunted her into making us cancel. Sent a note to me bout if every kid took time off there would be no kids in school, thats what summer is for etc.. She ruined our trip no less. Well fast forward a few months DD started talking about sub techer alot.I finally ? her well MRS X happened to be on maternity leave for the rest of the school year. Well I went to great lenths to get her phone number and told her off. I said how dare you have a baby during school that is what summer is for . What if every teacher got knocked up and took off the whole year Iwould have to quit my job and homeschool. Boy did I give her HE??LL.

Honestly? Seriously? Wow, you've got some nerve. That poor woman. I hope she hadn't had trouble trying to conceive, just to have you call her and harass her about her pregnancy.

 

[Scurvy]

Years ago DD was going to miss 4days for WDW 2 each week. Teacher had her so upset about missing she didnt want to even go. Taunted her into making us cancel. Sent a note to me bout if every kid took time off there would be no kids in school, thats what summer is for etc.. She ruined our trip no less. Well fast forward a few months DD started talking about sub techer alot.I finally ? her well MRS X happened to be on maternity leave for the rest of the school year. Well I went to great lenths to get her phone number and told her off. I said how dare you have a baby during school that is what summer is for . What if every teacher got knocked up and took off the whole year Iwould have to quit my job and homeschool. Boy did I give her HE??LL.

Okay I'm assuming this is a joke, but. . . Vacations are pretty easy to plan. Babies, not so much. You have complete control of when your vacation happens. People don't always have the ability to plan exactly when their babies will be born, for a variety of reasons. It's a ridiculous comparison - and I imagine any parent who would actually do something this absurd would be the laughingstock of their entire school district for years to come.

 

[Colleen27]

Okay I'm assuming this is a joke, but. . . Vacations are pretty easy to plan. Babies, not so much. You have complete control of when your vacation happens. People don't always have the ability to plan exactly when their babies will be born, for a variety of reasons. It's a ridiculous comparison - and I imagine any parent who would actually do something this absurd would be the laughingstock of their entire school district for years to come.

Except that many (most?) people don't have complete control over when they can vacation.

I'm sure the homeschooling statement was hyperbole, in response to the teacher's over-the-top comments about "if every kid took off...". But it does raise a valid point; as parents, we're supposed to be understanding when the teacher's personal life interferes with the classroom routine for whatever reason, but then we're told that the school/teacher does not need to be at all understanding of a student's home/family life.

 

[Colleen27]

"The same"? No. But here's the sum total of my family's vacations when we were growing up:
One weekend (only) trip to a timeshare presentation in New Hampshire
One August 1964 visit to the World's Fair
Two summertime trips to visit grandparents in New Jersey
One summer week in New York City, across the street from the Empire State Building.

That's it. I missed school only when I was sick. My brother never missed a day of school (and who knows with the younger kids ). But we have family memories - of going to the movies with Dad on Sunday so Mom could rest; day/weekend trip to New Hampshire to stay with friends who had a summer home there; local zoos; local amusement parks; cookouts/parties/softball in the back yard...

"The same" memories? Technically, no - because they're not the same activities. But they were done with the SAME PEOPLE - and THOSE are the memories that count. Not what you did, but with whom you did it.

I disagree. Who you were with matters most, of course, but what you did matters too. No one would argue that sitting in front of the TV with family is equal to time spent at the zoo or even playing ball in the backyard, and it doesn't make any more sense to me to say that a few hours at the zoo down the road is just as memorable and enriching for a child as a week exploring Disney or visiting the ruins at Tulum or seeing the Gettysburg battlefield first hand. Of course one can have a wonderful life without those things if they just aren't possible, but is missing school really a good enough reason to exclude them if they are?

 

[Scurvy]

Except that many (most?) people don't have complete control over when they can vacation.

I'm sure the homeschooling statement was hyperbole, in response to the teacher's over-the-top comments about "if every kid took off...". But it does raise a valid point; as parents, we're supposed to be understanding when the teacher's personal life interferes with the classroom routine for whatever reason, but then we're told that the school/teacher does not need to be at all understanding of a student's home/family life.

Well, they may not be able to go any time they want, but they don't accidentally go on vacation. Nor do they plan their vacation and then have it show up early. And if you suddenly have money to go on a trip, you can save it and use it later. Someone with fertility issues might not be able to wait till a more convenient time to have kids.

Of course teachers should be understanding of a child's home life - but there's a big difference between a vacation and a baby. I think it's a silly comparison. Now if a child had a dying parent and needed to miss school, I hope teachers would understand that. Or if the child was sick, or if a teenage student was pregnant. . . there are plenty of personal situations that the student and the student's family might not be able to control. A vacation isn't one of those situations.

 

[Colleen27]

Well, they may not be able to go any time they want, but they don't accidentally go on vacation. Nor do they plan their vacation and then have it show up early. And if you suddenly have money to go on a trip, you can save it and use it later. Someone with fertility issues might not be able to wait till a more convenient time to have kids.

Of course teachers should be understanding of a child's home life - but there's a big difference between a vacation and a baby. I think it's a silly comparison. Now if a child had a dying parent and needed to miss school, I hope teachers would understand that. Or if the child was sick, or if a teenage student was pregnant. . . there are plenty of personal situations that the student and the student's family night not be able to control. A vacation isn't one of those situations.

I understand that babies come when they come. But if we're talking about education, that is far more disruptive to the process than a student missing a week for school. My DD has been in that class - her teacher had a baby in March, and they had a rather crappy long-term sub for the rest of the year. That was an entire marking period essentially wasted, but the attendance policy didn't change for the students.

I asked this before, more generally. If you had a job that precluded travel during school breaks, would you simply stop traveling for the years you had school aged children? No one has given a "yes" to that yet, which leads me to think that the people who feel so strongly that children should never miss school for vacation have never had to take that opinion from principle to practice.

 

[Scurvy]

I understand that babies come when they come. But if we're talking about education, that is far more disruptive to the process than a student missing a week for school. My DD has been in that class - her teacher had a baby in March, and they had a rather crappy long-term sub for the rest of the year. That was an entire marking period essentially wasted, but the attendance policy didn't change for the students.

I was in a similar situation when I was in school. I had a terrible substitute for one semester, though my teacher wasn't pregnant - she had MS. I think the problem lies with the substitute, not the teacher. I think it's unrealistic to think that a teacher should not have children because they might be born at a time that would interfere with her job. Again, I think that there is a really big difference between situations like illness or pregnancy and a vacation.

I asked this before, more generally. If you had a job that precluded travel during school breaks, would you simply stop traveling for the years you had school aged children? No one has given a "yes" to that yet, which leads me to think that the people who feel so strongly that children should never miss school for vacation have never had to take that opinion from principle to practice.

Most people on this thread aren't saying you should never take kids out of school for vacations. They are just saying that if you choose to do so you also need to accept the consequences of that choice. Many of us are also saying it's unfair and unreasonable to expect a teacher to do even more work because of your personal choice to take a vacation during school.

I've taken my son out of school for trips before. If it would hurt his grades significantly to do so - as it likely will for the rest of his school career - then I wouldn't do it any longer. If my husband and I couldn't get away when my son was out of school and he couldn't get away during the school year, then yes - we would do without vacations for a few years. In fact, we had to cancel a trip we had planned for July because my husband couldn't get away from work. Now my son is in school and so we can't get away because of that. We'll go on a family vacation next time we are able to, whenever that might be. But we won't be taking my son out of school in order to do it.

 

[lillygator]

Ok...normally I'm not snotty, but.......REALLY? You're really going to say that? Let me just give you one job title (and, yes, it happens to be mine) where a person cannot get off during Easter/spring break and Christmas: an accountant!!!

You try and take off even ONE DAY from December 15th to April 30th at a firm and see what happens. Can you say "fired"? And, yes, I have actually fired a junior accountant for that offense.

As for why I can't go during the summer? I have very pale skin (picture a ghost) and I would end up with third degree sunburns. Heck, going in a week is going to be an issue, but I have to be back before the October 15th deadlines.

You may say it's hard to believe, but you seriously need to consider other peoples issues and reasonings. Many of us that go "off season" do so because we actually can't go any other time of the year.

Also, I should state that I ask the teachers to provide spelling words, math work, etc. if they are able to. I do not expect it of them and fully understand my kids have to make up the work in noon room the week we get back if they can't complete their school work while we're on vacation.


Again...sorry if I hijacked, guys. And, normally, I totally avoid this topic (like hearing what other parents are going through, though), but this statement just totally ticked me off.


(as she leaps off soapbox)

well, I recently changed positions, but was in an accountant position for 10+ years at two different employers, and while yes, it was a bit more difficult, I was still able to take vacation during month and year end as well as audit season. Also, I am a redhead and fair skinned....and a native Floridian...so find it hard to believe you can only travel off "summer", sunscreen works wonders. If you get third degree burns --- do you have a medical condition or are you just out in the sun with no protection all day?

Educators spend upwards of 8 hours a day educating YOUR children and you expect them to continue that into their "family time"?? Whatever happened to teaching responsibility?? I guess with comments like this we see why children are not wanting to take responsibility for their actions. My children (ages 16, 11, and 6) know they are responsible for writing down their assignments so that I can see them as well as so they can get them done. The little one gets a little bit of a break for now because she is still little but she is responsible for making sure her homework gets back in her backpack and she has her backpack. Her school is big on teaching the children to be responsible.

As for complaining about not being home Christmas morning with your family, YOU CHOSE THAT JOB!!!!! Don't be jealous or pissy towards a teacher because they chose to teach your children as well as other people's children. Try being thankful that someone cares enough to step up and teach your kids. I know I am very grateful for my children's teachers. I do my job and have done my job as being one of their teachers as well since they were born.

8 hours a day? My DD is in first grade...school starts at 8am and ends at 2:30...definitely not 8 hours...and an hour is "specials" (art, pe, music - with ANOTHER teacher) as well as time for lunch. Plus teachers are off in the summer, how does everyone count that in their school year time? And I realize many teach summer school, work other jobs, etc....

As I think about this more and more... I think it is insane that some of you are saying it's not that much to ask and ragging on the teachers for not wanting to do it... do you know what I do for my students...

I DO NOT go on vacations during the school year. I would LOVE to go during the cheaper, non busy, free dining, pretty decorations times... but do you know what that would do to my students?! They would be taught by a substitute and no matter how qualified...they don't know my students like I do. They don't know that this little girl needs step by step instructions and a lot of one on one time. They don't know that this one needs calm repremanding and not raising a voice. They don't know that that one over there can't sit still because she has ADHD. And me giving them my lesson plans is not as good as me being there. When I miss ONE DAY I type up detailed plans and put all my worksheets, books, etc in the order they will be needed on my desk. Do you know what happens when I come back? Half the stuff isn't taught. Imagine me taking a week off so I could enjoy some disney!

SO while you are complaining that your child's teacher won't email you. THink of the fact that we are making sure we are there every day possible to make sure your child passes all the state tests and meets all the standards.

probably for another thread...but those students who need this one on one are also taking away from the other students in the classroom. In DD's class there are three kids on meds who are continually disruptive and really need more individualized attention.

 

[Inigo]

I'm a juvenile probation officer in Indiana. If a child in our county schools misses 5 days of school unexcused, they will get either a letter from a probation officer or someone from the Prosecutor's Office. If they continue to have unexcused days, they get to meet with one of us and the school teachers and Principal to discuss why they are not getting their child to school in compliance with state law. If they don't show for that meeting or the child continues to have unexcused absences, the prosecutor's office will file charges of Truancy against the child or file a CHINS petition (Child in Need of Services) for educational neglect against the parents.

Sick days are one thing, but vacations are a completely separate issue.

Since we put this policy in place, we've had a lot fewer truancy cases in our system. We only had to make an example of a couple parents before those who chronically missed (for vacation, other issues, or educational neglect) got the picture that state law would be enforced.

The school districts in my county have the policy that students are not allowed to make up tests or quizzes when absent on an unexcused basis. The policy is that the students don't get to make up any work from those days, but most teachers allow the homework to be completed for partial credit so that the child is not completely lost as the school year advances. There are some subjects that are cumulative, and if the child misses lessons, he/she may have trouble grasping a concept.

For those parents who want the choice to take their kids out of school whenever they feel like, why not just home school?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I have to chime in here about the "8 hour" comment and how our kids are in specials ,etc. etc. I don't know a single teacher that comes in right at the teacher in time and leaves at the out time. On a normal day that would be 7.5 hours for us. Every monday we have an additional hour (at least) tacked on for school wide meetings. Then there are required grade level meetings, district cross-collaboration, etc. Our school is early out, so teachers are dismissed at 2:40, but most of us do not leave until after 5 and then do a lot of work at home.

The past two weeks I have had training that goes until 9:00pm. So I get to school at 6:30 am and do not leave until 9:00 pm. And at this point I do not even know if I am getting paid for the training even though it is required for my job and I was actually docked a large amount of money from my paycheck because I was required to miss the month's New Teacher Academy.

The amount of time we see your students may not seem like that long, but that is by no means all we do. Believe me, I put in way more than 40 hours a week, and work long past my contract time. Every teacher in my building does. There's no way we can get everything we need to have done done during just our plan time.

I don't expect parents to know that, just giving insight into why it might be difficult for the teacher "just" write an e-mail. And to provide some insight into the comments about how short our work day is.

 

[Scurvy]

8 hours a day? My DD is in first grade...school starts at 8am and ends at 2:30...definitely not 8 hours...and an hour is "specials" (art, pe, music - with ANOTHER teacher) as well as time for lunch. Plus teachers are off in the summer, how does everyone count that in their school year time? And I realize many teach summer school, work other jobs, etc....

Teachers don't get to school at 8:00 and leave at 2:30 - I'm sure they'd love it if they could, though. There's prep time before school and grading to do after school, meetings, in-service. . . all sorts of added things besides the time spent in the classroom with the students. The trend these days is for the teachers to be involved in many of the special classes, and those that don't have to do that usually use that time as their planning period. Often they do one-on-one work with students during that time or they schedule parent conferences then, or they create tests and worksheets and work on lesson plans. And of course that's just the lower grades. Once the students start changing classes teachers are lucky to get a planning period at all. Often they have to monitor the hallways during the time between classes and monitor the cafeteria during lunch. Then, once they go home, there are tests and homework to grade and more lessons to prepare. Most teachers would be thrilled to only spend 8 hours a day doing work related activities.

I'm not sure what you mean about summer. Most teachers are 9 month employees and aren't paid to work over the summer. They do have required meetings and in-service activities to attend, and often they spend hours at school rather than at home so they'll be ready for the coming year. Still, I don't see how their "free" time over the summer would be counted in their school year time. They aren't being compensated to work then. (Though many teachers do choose to have their 9 months worth of pay split over 12 months just to make budgeting easier.)

 

[Inigo]

The teachers in a Charter School are not allowed to deviate from the curriculum. The teachers do not come up with their lesson plans, they are given a business model and are expected to follow it. The teachers have no input. If a child isn't getting it, that child is pulled out for extra help. Instead of holding the whole class back, you give the child the help he needs. I wish my DS had been able to get into the Charter School. It's done by a lottery system.

Yuck! Why not just put the kids in front of a video screen and not waste money on teachers?

I would have hated attending, sending my children to, or working at a school such as that you describe. It sounds positively revolting to me!

 

[Inigo]

I noticed both of the posters are in Michigan. State laws vary as far as education goes, because each state handles things differently.

I don't know how we could be carted in to family court, though. We live in North Carolina, but our kids go to school in South Carolina.

How do you do that, enrolling your children in a school district in which you don't live? Do you pay tuition?

 

[C&G'sMama]

Yuck! Why not just put the kids in front of a video screen and not waste money on teachers?

I would have hated attending, sending my children to, or working at a school such as that you describe. It sounds positively revolting to me!

I think it depends upon the charter school and the individual state laws. It is true that a school has to stick to its charter but as far as not being able to deviate from a lesson plan must be specific to that school's charter. We have only a few charter schools here for a city our size (compared to other cities in our state) but each one that is currently in operation is successful in its own right. But they are all very different from one another. One is based on the Expeditionary Learning model, another is very disciplined requiring quiet hallways and 90 degree turns in the halls. I think the school my children attend falls somewhere in between. I don't think either of my children would be suited for the other 2 schools I mentioned but the children at these schools thrive and our school may not be a good fit for them.

Unfortunately whenever there is a discussion of schools, it seems to get to be a "battle" between teachers and parents. My personal opinion and experience is the issue lies with more management and politics in the district. The teachers get caught in the middle as they are on the front lines. My DD had some wonderful teacher when she was in our public school but it was evident that mismanagement at the district level was such that it was not a good long-term solution.

As far as the issue between pulling your kids out or not pulling your kids out, I believe it's a personal choice and no, I don't expect the teachers to go of the way for my family.

I don't feel that these truancy laws are necessarily going to help the children it needs to help. I think the intent of truancy laws should be to protect children from educational neglect. We are very diligent about working with our children and with their teachers. We volunteer at school etc. But, I have no problem taking my kids out for any kind of vacation whether it be a week in Disney or a week on the beach at Miami.

Again, with too many issues in this country we've taken common sense out of the equation.

 

[MaumeeMom]

Years ago DD was going to miss 4days for WDW 2 each week. Teacher had her so upset about missing she didnt want to even go. Taunted her into making us cancel. Sent a note to me bout if every kid took time off there would be no kids in school, thats what summer is for etc.. She ruined our trip no less. Well fast forward a few months DD started talking about sub techer alot.I finally ? her well MRS X happened to be on maternity leave for the rest of the school year. Well I went to great lenths to get her phone number and told her off. I said how dare you have a baby during school that is what summer is for . What if every teacher got knocked up and took off the whole year Iwould have to quit my job and homeschool. Boy did I give her HE??LL.

Seriously? You called a new mom and yelled at her for taking time off to have her baby? If I were her I would have thought about filing a harassment charge against you and had whoever gave you the private phone number reprimanded.

If you were following the district policy when you took your child out of school, yet the teacher "taunted" you, then you had a valid complaint to go to her supervisor and report her. Your calling her at home during medical leave, which is very different from unexcused vacation leave, is way out of bounds. I would be so ashamed if I had done this, I wouldn't brag about it on a message board. That is the absolute worst thing I have read in this whole thread and I have read nearly every post. Tsk, tsk!