Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[Colleen27]

I think most studies actually show that people who vacation are healthier than those who never do. I know they are certainly happier.

It's abhorent that schools think they have the right to tell you what to do with your kids -- the truancy laws in some states are completely over the top. No wonder so many people homeschool (And enough people homeschool, those teachers will be out of a job!)

That said, I can't even FIND the absence policy for the school where my son goes, and it's in the same state as the OP. I asked his teacher last year, and she didn't know either.

And yet, even with this lax attendance policy, this school has one of the highest testing performance rates around.


I don't write notes that explain why were are going. I say, "DS will be out from X to X. Please let me know what assignments you would like done in our absence. Thank you."

Our school has a lax policy too, and it is published. And yet we have excellent test scores and ratings (US News & World Report recognized), which is particularly amazing considering the working class, semi-rural nature of our community.

I have learned that the best way to keep the peace with teachers/administration is not to mention our destination, though, because our school principal will get snippy over a trip to Disney even though we're well within district policy in taking them. She had no problem with us pulling them out to go to Mexico in '07, but gave us grief the next year over one less missed day for Disney.

I know there will be years when we can't travel during the school year as the kids get older, but knowing those years are coming just makes traveling now while we can more important. DD8 intends to apply to the IB high school when she gets older, and I know that program is too intense to be missing time. Hopefully by then our business will be well established enough that closing down for one week over summer break won't be the huge problem it is now, because even 4 years without traveling sounds like an awfully long time to me.

 

[Scurvy]

I’ll admit I like to go when the crowds are lighter and there are better deals. That is absolutely why we go during the school year. We were going to go in April/May 2010 but NYS moved their standardized test this year to that week so we won’t pull them out. We will however pull them out at the beginning of December. It’s a personal choice. Why does one parent have to be right? We all have different parenting styles and beliefs. My kids are not allowed to watch the newer Hannah Montana and ICarly because we feel it’s too mature for them. On the other hand her best friend’s parents would never dream of taking their daughter out of school for Disney but allows their daughter to watch more mature TV and movies. That is their choice. If you do not believe it is a good idea to take your child out of school for vacation, then don’t and I’m not going to judge you for. But please don’t judge me either.
This discussion reminds me of the great breast feeding vs. non-breast feeding debate. There is always this "need" for someone to be right. Why?

I don't have a "need" to be right, though it's a nice bonus that I usually am. I just wish the rest of the world would finally realize that!

Really, I don't care if someone wants to take their kids out of school for a trip. Well actually that isn't entirely true - I do care if it's going to cause the child to fall way behind and get bad grades, because that isn't fair to the child (or the school, these days - bad grades reflect badly on the school even when they aren't the school's fault). But assuming that the parent is committed to working with the child to prevent that, then as far as I'm concerned they should be able to miss school for trips.

However, I do think that you are obligated to follow the rules of the school system where your child is enrolled. If the school has a policy that doesn't allow children to miss class for a trip then I think you shouldn't be missing class for a trip. I don't necessarily agree with those rules, but I still think they need to be followed. When you enroll your child into the school system you are agreeing to follow their rules. Don't like the rules? Find another option. Either move to another school district, put your child into a private school with more lenient attendance policies, homeschool your child, or work to get those rules changed.

I also think you shouldn't create extra work for the teachers so that you can travel. Compensating for your vacation is not part of a teacher's job. Most teachers don't love the attendance policies any more than the parents do, but they don't have any choice in the matter. They have to work within those rules. If a teacher is able to let the child make up the missed work then she needs to be willing to do that. If that means giving the child a list of assignments before the trip or a list of what was missed after the trip then that's what needs to happen. She shouldn't be expected to devote significant extra time to a student because of a vacation related absence, though. It's unreasonable for a parent to expect the teacher to reteach the lessons that the child missed while on vacation, or to send personalized emails detailing all the material covered, or to type up her own lecture to give to the child. If the teacher wants to do those things then that's great - but it should never be expected or even requested, in my opinion.

 

[Colleen27]

And for the record, this is what we did this year...we were at WDW from Aug. 29 throught Sept. 5. The crowds were really low, and the temperature was in the high 80s low 90s most days, so it worked out great.

I really REALLY wanted to be there that week! With Labor Day so late this year, I figured it would be a perfect time to go. But between DH's business and a mandate from on high at my mom's office (she can usually take vacation pretty much whenever, but the entire county was told they couldn't vacation at all in August because of the launch of a new computer system ), we just couldn't get away. Then we tried planning for a few days in Chicago before the kids started school, and sure enough we ended up canceling because DH had nothing scheduled that week when we booked but ended up with a major roofing job that he needed me for. That's how January keeps ending up as our time for travel plans that can't be easily changed or canceled - not much roofing going on in Michigan in Jan, and that's the meat & potatoes of our business.

 

[Scurvy]

Furthermore, it's a ridiculous comparison:

A child who misses school misses lessons. No one else can learn for that child; so if the child is out while the class is learning multiplication tables, he's just missed that instruction. The child loses out.

However, a teacher is an employee doing a job. A qualified sub can step in and do that job. Any teacher can teach the child his multiplication tables, so no one loses anything.

Very true. It's like comparing apples and pogo sticks - not remotely similar!

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I really can't believe this thread has become a parent vs teacher throwdown.

Very, very sad.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and luckily, in this great country (and other countries who have chimed in here) we're still the ones in charge of our children and we are the ones solely responsible for making these delicate decisions.

The disrespect shown teachers here is appalling. The disrespect shown parents here by teachers and administrators is sad. Luckily, parents have ultimate control over their family and that should be that. If anyone dislikes the attendance policies set by their district stand up and fight them in a civil and peaceful way. Vote.

Teachers, I am really sorry for all of the downtrodden, parent-less children you have encountered. I'd be willing to bet, however, that the folks here on this board are far from the neglecting parents you are referencing in your posts. I think these harsh statements from both sides are probably misdirected.

We all love WDW! Yay! End of story.
Have a nice day!

Now can we stop with the grammar, spelling, etc competitions?

 

[Missy1961]

I must be the worst mother ever. I don't know how my poor urchins ever survived without big trips to here, there and yonder during the school year or whenever we pleased. They must be so limited from going to little day trips to zoos, museums, science centers and short weekends to nearby attractions!

I must go apologize to them for the miserable childhood I provided to them.

Yeah, I'm going to complain to my parents that all those times we spent together at the local beach during the summer, all those family dinners, all those trips to local amusement parks don't count because we didn't go on fancy vacations. (WDW didn't really exist when I was a kid) I must be traumitized because I went to school just about every day school was scheduled, except when I was sick. I didn't know my parents were meanies.


I really can't believe this thread has gone on this long. If for some reason you want to take your kid out of school to go to WDW or any other vacation, fine. Do it. But if the teacher or teachers tell you that they can't provide daily emails, deal with it. You made a choice, live with it.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

However, I do think that you are obligated to follow the rules of the school system where your child is enrolled. If the school has a policy that doesn't allow children to miss class for a trip then I think you shouldn't be missing class for a trip. I don't necessarily agree with those rules, but I still think they need to be followed. When you enroll your child into the school system you are agreeing to follow their rules.

I HIGHLY disagree with this! Not everyone can pick up and move because they don't like the school policy. How about another option? A civic responsibility is to stand against unfair policy. Stand up against the policies you find unfair! Go to the school board. Start a petition. Start a campaign to run for School Board yourself! We are not powerless against government administrators. We the people!

 

[C&G'sMama]

I don't have a "need" to be right, though it's a nice bonus that I usually am. I just wish the rest of the world would finally realize that!

Really, I don't care if someone wants to take their kids out of school for a trip. Well actually that isn't entirely true - I do care if it's going to cause the child to fall way behind and get bad grades, because that isn't fair to the child (or the school, these days - bad grades reflect badly on the school even when they aren't the school's fault). But assuming that the parent is committed to working with the child to prevent that, then as far as I'm concerned they should be able to miss school for trips.

However, I do think that you are obligated to follow the rules of the school system where your child is enrolled. If the school has a policy that doesn't allow children to miss class for a trip then I think you shouldn't be missing class for a trip. I don't necessarily agree with those rules, but I still think they need to be followed. When you enroll your child into the school system you are agreeing to follow their rules. Don't like the rules? Find another option. Either move to another school district, put your child into a private school with more lenient attendance policies, homeschool your child, or work to get those rules changed.

I also think you shouldn't create extra work for the teachers so that you can travel. Compensating for your vacation is not part of a teacher's job. Most teachers don't love the attendance policies any more than the parents do, but they don't have any choice in the matter. They have to work within those rules. If a teacher is able to let the child make up the missed work then she needs to be willing to do that. If that means giving the child a list of assignments before the trip or a list of what was missed after the trip then that's what needs to happen. She shouldn't be expected to devote significant extra time to a student because of a vacation related absence, though. It's unreasonable for a parent to expect the teacher to reteach the lessons that the child missed while on vacation, or to send personalized emails detailing all the material covered, or to type up her own lecture to give to the child. If the teacher wants to do those things then that's great - but it should never be expected or even requested, in my opinion.

I agree with you on all of the above. The district in which we reside allows for 25 unexcused absences. The charter school which my children attend allows 20 though they are talking about lowering it to 15. We left our district school with the intent of home schooling when our daughter’s number came up for the charter school. You want to talk about not following rules, that’s why we left the district school. Protocols around safety issues weren’t being followed, first grade report cards were fabricated after a teacher left without turning them in. DD had 3 1st grade teachers plus subs. The administration did not follow rules around parent involvement, a practice which is rampant in our district.
We let the teachers know ahead of time and ask if there is any work they can provide us. If there is they give it to us, if there isn’t they leave it in our child’s folder when we get back. The kids then do double homework to get caught up. Last time we went DP download color sheets of flags from a few of the countries at Epcot. She then had the children color them from images we downloaded on the internet and glue them into a notebook. After we went to Epcot they wrote a couple of sentences about what they learned in each country. DD bought a map of Italy to bring in to her teacher.
As far as them falling behind, to date that hasn’t been an issue. If it becomes an issue as they get older, we’ll revisit our vacation habits. But for today it works for all of us.

 

[Scurvy]

I HIGHLY disagree with this! Not everyone can pick up and move because they don't like the school policy. How about another option? A civic responsibility is to stand against unfair policy. Stand up against the policies you find unfair! Go to the school board. Start a petition. Start a campaign to run for School Board yourself! We are not powerless against government administrators. We the people!

Yes, that's why I said the bolded, which you didn't include in your quote. (ETA - I did edit to add this shortly after posting; you might have quoted me just before I posted the edit.)

However, I do think that you are obligated to follow the rules of the school system where your child is enrolled. If the school has a policy that doesn't allow children to miss class for a trip then I think you shouldn't be missing class for a trip. I don't necessarily agree with those rules, but I still think they need to be followed. When you enroll your child into the school system you are agreeing to follow their rules. Don't like the rules? Find another option. Either move to another school district, put your child into a private school with more lenient attendance policies, homeschool your child, or work to get those rules changed.

However, until you are successful in getting the rules changed, you need to follow them.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

Yes, that's why I said the bolded, which you didn't include in your quote.



However, until you are successful in getting the rules changed, you need to follow them.

Sorry! Didn't read down far enough, just got to "move to another district" and felt the need to type! I can't move for several reasons and I am one with a very harsh district. My dd is missing 2 days of school and I was informed that one more absence (even for illness unless seen by a Dr) will prompt a warning letter. Two more and I am summoned to Court. Even our attendance officer doesn't really understand the policy. While I agree with your reasoning, I do not think this policy is reasonable and so I am willing to go to court if need be rather than abide by what I feel is an unreasonable and excessively strict policy. You can bet I'm going to be letting my opinion known to the school board! Of course, I'm not going to facilitate any more absences for my dd, but if she's sick then she needs to stay home.

BTW, my school district is the SAME district that closed all of our schools down for 11 school days late last year on H1N1 (unfounded) fears!

And also BTW, my dd is in FIRST grade. My feelings might be different if she were in junior high or struggling with course work. But those are MY considerations, not administrators who spend no time with my dd.

We have migrant workers in our district. The school struggles so hard to get them educated and must work with the parents to make an envornment that urges them to enroll their children in school. Harsh, restrictive, or non-family centered policies do not encourage this.

I went to school in the 70's and policy was much different then. And I dare say we all received appropriate education.

 

[kristilew]

every single time I've taken DD out of school, she's come back far ahead of where her class is in every subject. A few minutes of work each day with one-on-one explanation and drill moves much faster than a class full of kids can.

I tell her if she wants to keep traveling during the school year, she has to keep getting straight As to show that the work is easy enough for her to miss. The one time she fell below this mark, we did cancel our trip, and it's never been a problem since then.

She has missed more than the 10 allowed days in a year and we've gotten the DSS letter. When I was able to show her grades and test scores, they dismissed the complaint.

Having said that, we will probably keep her in school more when she's in high school. But for elementary and middle school, no.

 

[jodifla]

I really REALLY wanted to be there that week! With Labor Day so late this year, I figured it would be a perfect time to go. But between DH's business and a mandate from on high at my mom's office (she can usually take vacation pretty much whenever, but the entire county was told they couldn't vacation at all in August because of the launch of a new computer system ), we just couldn't get away. Then we tried planning for a few days in Chicago before the kids started school, and sure enough we ended up canceling because DH had nothing scheduled that week when we booked but ended up with a major roofing job that he needed me for. That's how January keeps ending up as our time for travel plans that can't be easily changed or canceled - not much roofing going on in Michigan in Jan, and that's the meat & potatoes of our business.

Yes, and any day of in January ispent in Florida and not Michigan is a good day in my book!

I'm not loving the winters up here from Jan. on

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

It's worked for years. We didn't have these over the top attendance rules when I was growing up.

Attendance rules, yes. Onerous rules, no.

Just because you send your kids to school doesn't mean you turn over your rights as a parent.

This is one of the biggest problem with schools: the sheeple mentality.

Amen! I'm right there with you on this one!

 

[creativeamanda]

How do you do that, enrolling your children in a school district in which you don't live? Do you pay tuition?

My husband teaches in the district where my children go to school, and therefore they are allowed to attend there. I don't think it's your business whether or not we pay tuition, because believe me, we pay enough taxes in that community to more than make up for the fact that our children attend school there, have good attendance (except when extremely ill, like for the past few days), and typically have within the top five scores on standardized tests.

Typically parents who are teachers are allowed to take their children out of district for education. That is one of the allowable exceptions in the SC Code of Law.

My guess is that if we did not follow attendance laws, we would no longer be granted admission, rather than carted to family court. We would technically be out of their jurisdiction. But if you look at the law, they would reserve the right to deny us if they wanted. We have to obtain permission from the sending district every year and from the receiving board.

edited to add--District Board Policy for local district (verbatim):

The district will follow applicable state law with regard to all student admissions and student transfers into or out of the district. The superintendent will examine all inter-district student transfer requests in close consultation with the district's retained legal counsel.

Acceptance of students from other _______ County school districts will be in accordance with state law when the student in question has not been expelled from attendance at school or is awaiting disciplinary action by his/her home school. There is no tuition charge for this exchange of students within ___________ County.

The superintendent will make a recommendation based on his/her examination and the advice of legal counsel at the time the board acts on inter-district transfer requests.

In all cases of non-resident student admission, the parent/legal guardian must assume responsibility for transportation. The board will hold non-resident students to the behavioral and academic requirements set out in policy JFAA (Admission of Resident Students). See administrative rule JRA-R for information pertaining to the transfer of student records.


Children of employees
The district may admit children of employees of the district provided they submit a release from the school district in which they reside. The district reserves the right to make the school assignment.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I don't think it's your business whether or not we pay tuition, because believe me, we pay enough taxes in that community to more than make up for the fact that our children attend school there, have good attendance (except when extremely ill, like for the past few days), and typically have within the top five scores on standardized tests.

Wow, that was harsh. I think PP was just curious as to how you send your children to another district. PP wasn't accusing you of not paying.

In our area we have what is called school of choice. We can enroll our children in the surrounding districts. The only problem is we have to provide transportation the the school we send them to. That means driving them to school or at least to a group bus stop. We don't pay tuition for this choice.

 

[manning]

Our school boards don't get paid more for higher attendance. Our schools themselves are penalized for below-minimum attendance or test scores. It's extremely difficult to teach anything to a student who's not present for several/numerous consecutive days.

I don't know if you meant this for your local district or not, but in Illinois the state does give funding based on attendance.

 

[creativeamanda]

Wow, that was harsh. I think PP was just curious as to how you send your children to another district. PP wasn't accusing you of not paying.

In our area we have what is called school of choice. We can enroll our children in the surrounding districts. The only problem is we have to provide transportation the the school we send them to. That means driving them to school or at least to a group bus stop. We don't pay tuition for this choice.

No, it is not. Her question is how I know what they'll do and whether or not I pay tuition for my choice. I answered the question.

Funnily enough when I looked up the SC Code of laws regarding attendance, there is no list of how many days or anything like that. The district board policy states a limit of 10 unexcused absences per year that can be made up in afterschool programs for students taking credit courses for high school. Nothing for any child younger. Guess I got a good education. Guess that's why our truancy officer will not go after a family with a child under the age of 12. . .

 

[tinkabella627]

probably for another thread...but those students who need this one on one are also taking away from the other students in the classroom. In DD's class there are three kids on meds who are continually disruptive and really need more individualized attention.

Well.. first of all I was referencing multiple students. Every classroom has students that have needs. Some may be minor some may be major. But no one will know it as well as their classroom teacher. Which is why I said I could NEVER see myself leaving my class to a sub for a week for a vacation. I keep hoping that when the time comes for me to have kids it happens AFTER state testing at least, if not over the summer because I can not see my kids being with a sub for 6 or more weeks. And that isn't even this year's class. And there is no reason to say that those kids that need one on one are taking away from another child's learning. Any teacher in the classroom will tell you that at some point all children will need some one on one time because they may not get something or just need that extra attention because they are having a bad day. I certainly hope your child never needs one on one because then THEY will be taking away from someone else's learning. There are plenty of laws and inclusion acts if you want to look into them, as well as research and studies, that will explain all of this to you. Not being rude, but every kid has needs. As a parent, you just see YOUR child's needs. As I teacher, I see 44 children's needs, every day. And I do my best to make sure that those needs are met, by me, if by no one else. And come next year, I will meet a whole new set of students to worry about, while still thinking of my previous kids and hoping their new teachers understand them as well as I finally got to.

 

[eliza61]

I'm a high school teacher, and I understand the hesitation about sending out daily e-mails to make sure that your child keeps on top of assignments. To you it's a quick message.

To me it is much more than that. I don't know how your child's classes are, but I do not rely on the textbook to do my teaching. It is difficult, if not impossible for me to convey what we covered in a day by typing a five minute e-mail. That means I would have to type up the class notes for the day and attach images and primary source documents. To do less would cheapen what I am trying to teach and put your child behind when he returns. This could take me anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. I'm not happy about having to do that because you want to take your family to Disney World during school.

Then, what happens when your child has questions? More e-mail for me. Then your child is understandably behind when he returns, which means I will have to spend time with him after school. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to do it, but realize that my work day is now increased because I still have papers to grade and lessons to prepare. All because you wanted to go on vacation.

I hope your family has a wonderful time on vacation, but please cut you kids teachers some slack.

Melissa

Thank you Melissa,
As a former teacher, I never understood how people just "assume" that because they are willing to take the assignment to wdw that it doesn't create mountains of extra work for the teacher.
First, most of the work I got back often look like exactly what is was, work done at the last minute.

anyway my experience aside.

Op, you do have the choice of taking your kids out of school but if you do your kids have to accept the consequences.
If the teachers don't want to accomodate you, sorry but that's their right also.

I'm one of those "follow the rules" type of gals and never found vacationing a good excuse to break them. JMO

 

[golfgal]

How do you do that, enrolling your children in a school district in which you don't live? Do you pay tuition?

In our state you can attend any school you want as long as they have room. There is an application process but it isn't complicated. Your tax dollars follow to the district you attend (part of them, not all).

As for attendance rules, many schools had to implement these rules because people would pull kids out of school for tanning appointments, hair cuts, shopping, you name it. When we were growing up we didn't have these policies because parents didn't pull kids out for stupid things like these.