Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[lillygator]

Well.. first of all I was referencing multiple students. Every classroom has students that have needs. Some may be minor some may be major. But no one will know it as well as their classroom teacher. Which is why I said I could NEVER see myself leaving my class to a sub for a week for a vacation. I keep hoping that when the time comes for me to have kids it happens AFTER state testing at least, if not over the summer because I can not see my kids being with a sub for 6 or more weeks. And that isn't even this year's class. And there is no reason to say that those kids that need one on one are taking away from another child's learning. Any teacher in the classroom will tell you that at some point all children will need some one on one time because they may not get something or just need that extra attention because they are having a bad day. I certainly hope your child never needs one on one because then THEY will be taking away from someone else's learning. There are plenty of laws and inclusion acts if you want to look into them, as well as research and studies, that will explain all of this to you. Not being rude, but every kid has needs. As a parent, you just see YOUR child's needs. As I teacher, I see 44 children's needs, every day. And I do my best to make sure that those needs are met, by me, if by no one else. And come next year, I will meet a whole new set of students to worry about, while still thinking of my previous kids and hoping their new teachers understand them as well as I finally got to.

no, not what I meant...of course all children will need one on one every once in a while, but the same x number who need it everyday? To me that seems excessive in a classroom....is that normal?

 

[tinkabella627]

no, not what I meant...of course all children will need one on one every once in a while, but the same x number who need it everyday? To me that seems excessive in a classroom....is that normal?

yes it is normal, at least in the schools I've been in to have at least 3 that need it regularly. For example, last year I had one with emotional issues, one 3 grade levels behind, and one that really just needed someone to love them. And as a teacher, I just put a smile on and deal with it. It may not be as prevalent in suburban schools or higher economic areas, but in our school it seems to be common that there are about 3 in each class that need some type of attention. But I love each one of my 44 kids, no matter how crazy they drive me. So for that one that needs me to give her one direction at a time and the one that was in my class last year that stops by to see me everyday just so I can show him I still love him... I am ok with it because I know that in some way, shape, or form, I am helping them...academically or emotionally. Don't get me wrong... I will get so frustrated that I will gripe and be stressed, but at the end of the year, I will be sad to let them go onto 4th grade.

 

[MrsPete]

It's worked for years. We didn't have these over the top attendance rules when I was growing up.

Attendance rules, yes. Onerous rules, no.

Just because you send your kids to school doesn't mean you turn over your rights as a parent.

This is one of the biggest problem with schools: the sheeple mentality.

We didn't have these attendance rules when I was a kid either. They weren't needed. I don't remember any families ever taking kids out of school for vacations. Oh, a family might've left early on a Friday, but a whole week? No way. It just wasn't something that was done; most likely that was partly because people just didn't have the money back then, but also because there was more of a feeling that when you were part of a group, you did what the group did.

Today's "me, me, me" generation has decided that it wants the best of everything: The benefits of being in the school system AND the freedom to do as you please.

 

[Teacher03]

I've been following this thread and just wanted to add my opinion as a teacher. I teach third grade in a small Catholic school and families often take their children out for vacation, which I usually don't have an issue with (unless it is excessive.) I understand that some families can only get time off during the school year. What I do have problems with is parents who insist I have work ready for them to take on vacation. Nine out of ten times, they do not do it. Not any of it. Finally our principal took a stand and said we are not permitted to give work before a vacation, it has to be made up when the child returns, on his or her own time. If a child misses five days, he or she has ten days to turn in all work. I think that is fair, and we have had fewer problems since we started handling it this way.

I have two families traveling to Disney this year; they know I am jealous!

 

[Colleen27]

We didn't have these attendance rules when I was a kid either. They weren't needed. I don't remember any families ever taking kids out of school for vacations. Oh, a family might've left early on a Friday, but a whole week? No way. It just wasn't something that was done; most likely that was partly because people just didn't have the money back then, but also because there was more of a feeling that when you were part of a group, you did what the group did.

Today's "me, me, me" generation has decided that it wants the best of everything: The benefits of being in the school system AND the freedom to do as you please.

I don't think it is generational at all. When I was in school, people took family vacations during the school year. Most of the families we knew traveled, and just like now, some couldn't do it during the summer. My best friend's mom was a librarian in the children's section of an inner city library branch; I remember how jealous I used to be that they went to Disney every February, but I was a teen before I realized it was because she was too busy with summer programs at her branch to do anything fun during the summer.

 

[Inigo]

My husband teaches in the district where my children go to school, and therefore they are allowed to attend there. I don't think it's your business whether or not we pay tuition,

Wow. Remind me never to ask you anything again. I was simply curious how it worked since it was crossing state lines.

I don't know who pee'd in your cornflakes, but, well, just wow.

 

[Colleen27]

Yes, and any day of in January ispent in Florida and not Michigan is a good day in my book!

I'm not loving the winters up here from Jan. on

True that! January really isn't my favorite time for Disney. Call me crazy, but I LOVE late summer/early fall weather there. But it is just about my favorite time to be away from Michigan, so I'll take it. We were supposed to be going to Disney next week, and I might be crazy, but I'm glad we're not... The weather right now is perfect, we're going to head out to the Renaissance Festival if DH's schedule stays clear for Sunday, I'm taking the kids apple picking next Tuesday after school (half day), and it is just too nice a time here to miss. In January, I won't miss Michigan for even 1 second!

 

[jodifla]

True that! January really isn't my favorite time for Disney. Call me crazy, but I LOVE late summer/early fall weather there. But it is just about my favorite time to be away from Michigan, so I'll take it. We were supposed to be going to Disney next week, and I might be crazy, but I'm glad we're not... The weather right now is perfect, we're going to head out to the Renaissance Festival if DH's schedule stays clear for Sunday, I'm taking the kids apple picking next Tuesday after school (half day), and it is just too nice a time here to miss. In January, I won't miss Michigan for even 1 second!

yes. the weather is great now!

Florida weather is at its best from November through May, and Michigan from May through November.

I see why so many Michiganians spend their winters in Florida!

 

[beautybelle]

Im going to get flamed hard for this but Im going to say it anyway.
First of all there is nothing I would love to see more than for everybody to start homeschooling their kids at least long enough for parents to actually get their rights back. I think parents have continued to set back and let school districts makes rules and more rules and more rules till we dont know whether the kids are ours or theirs anymore. Oddly enough as parents we get to pay for our kids food, and insurance and clothes, AND pay to send them to school but we dont have enough common sense to decide whether or not we can take them on vacation when we want to.
Our school district has a strict attendance policy too but, heaven forbid should you miss a few days for a family vacation. Now when the local football team makes state or our wrestling team makes state or something related to sports, all of a sudden they close the schools down so everyone can go support their teams. Its almost funny how ridiculous it has all become.
I see a lot of parents on here who keep saying follow the rules or pay the consequences. Well its exactly that mentality that has us in the situation we're in now. IF we keep on following their rules, at this rate, you will have your children till their around 4 (pre-k age) and after that they wont be yours again till their college aged and then they'll be gone. But, please, send a check every week.
I cant say on here what the public school systems can do with their attendance policies.

BTW, I do homeschool. I got beyond tired of the BS.

 

[kellyg403]

I wasn't going to chime in but...I can't help myself. I am not a fan of the school district zero tolerance policy. Period. Life is not black and white and in this particular instance I feel like there are so many grey areas. I don't expect the teachers to give my children their homework ahead of time unless they have the ability to do so, I do not expect them to email me or keep me updated. I understand that teachers have a lot to do, I understand my little Johnny is one of 30 students in your class. I understand that there are kids whose parents don't send them to school because they can't get up in the morning and teachers are spending their time getting them caught up. I get all the of the reasons.

However, there is a grey area. My children have perfect attendance. All of them honor roll students. I send them to school everyday. On top of that we are a blended family. My children have a dad to visit and my stepdd's have a mom to visit. By court order, some years that alone takes away all the 'school' vacation time..spring break, summer and christmas. DH and I both work, and work hard. He has blackout dates, as I do, on which times we can go on vacation with the kids. So once you factor in all that? Well, sometimes the kids might miss a day or two. We don't pull them out for a whole week, we attempt to work around the schedule of the school and all those teacher workdays filtered through there. However, we don't do it often because the kids are older now and a zero impacts not only their grades now but those college applications/schools. It drives me batty. I am not asking the school system/board to excuse my children for two weeks while I work and they sit around the house. I am asking for them to include grey areas in the whole zero tolerance policy. Lets face it, while I don't think it makes my kids 'special' because they come from a 'divorced' family, I think it is the year 2009. The divorce rate is sky high. I live in a military town and trust me, here, its probably more. So, what should I do..never have a vacation with my kids? Should I allow the divorce crap to include no family vacations because the kids can't take a day off?

While I see both sides of the issue, I just don't like the blanket statements made by the school board. If the parents of little Johnny know he is struggling and take him out of school for a week, well they should pay the consequences of that. If your child is not struggling, is inclined to work on the missing assignments oh well..miss a day here and there for some family bonding. The breakdown in the family units are bad enough without the school telling me what I need to do. I am not even getting into the business of the rest of the NCLB stuff that really really needs to be revisited.

And no, I don't think it will make my kids lazy or not want to work because I am teaching them to skip school.

Kelly

 

[MaumeeMom]

Im going to get flamed hard for this but Im going to say it anyway.
First of all there is nothing I would love to see more than for everybody to start homeschooling their kids at least long enough for parents to actually get their rights back. I think parents have continued to set back and let school districts makes rules and more rules and more rules till we dont know whether the kids are ours or theirs anymore. Oddly enough as parents we get to pay for our kids food, and insurance and clothes, AND pay to send them to school but we dont have enough common sense to decide whether or not we can take them on vacation when we want to.
Our school district has a strict attendance policy too but, heaven forbid should you miss a few days for a family vacation. Now when the local football team makes state or our wrestling team makes state or something related to sports, all of a sudden they close the schools down so everyone can go support their teams. Its almost funny how ridiculous it has all become.
I see a lot of parents on here who keep saying follow the rules or pay the consequences. Well its exactly that mentality that has us in the situation we're in now. IF we keep on following their rules, at this rate, you will have your children till their around 4 (pre-k age) and after that they wont be yours again till their college aged and then they'll be gone. But, please, send a check every week.
I cant say on here what the public school systems can do with their attendance policies.

BTW, I do homeschool. I got beyond tired of the BS.

What about working to make the existing school system better? By getting involved in the schools you can help set/fix policies.

Your kids are not yours if they go to public school because they can't go on vacation when YOU want to go? Seriously? Your kids are in school for six or seven hours a day, what about the other 17 or 18 hours? Even accounting for sleep time, you interact with your children for over a quarter of their day. What about weekends, summer and other breaks? I really do not understand that statement at all. I'm not a shrink but I think that there may be some separation anxiety issues involved here.

My DH and I are responsible for our children, no one else. Yes, they are required to be in school, which I pay for with my taxes, and I don't have any problem with that at all. Schools would be in chaos if people just sent their kids when they wanted to send them. There would be no way to plan lessons or kids would just miss out.

Back in the old days, when the boys had to go work on the farms, they missed out on huge chunks of lessons. There are parents who are just too lazy or uninvolved to make sure their kids go to school when needed. There are all kinds of reasons why the attendance policies were developed. Yes, some include funding but there are many other valid reasons too.

The way to improve the school system is by getting involved. I often find the people who complain the most are the ones who sit back and do nothing to make them better. I never see these parents at council meetings, at sporting or fund raising events, yet when I see them in the grocery store they do nothing but complain. That doesn't fly with me.

By the way, our school system would never shut down for a sporting event; if you are upset that yours does, have you done something about it?

As for homeschooling - to each his own. It is not for us. I like the socialization that my children get by going to school. I like that they learn from different teachers and are exposed to different points of view and even different cultures. I can even appreciate that they have to learn to deal with people that they may not like or with whom they do not get along - this prepares them for the real world. If, in order to get them these things, I have to follow the policies that are set in place by my school district (with my input), then so be it. JMO.

 

[jodifla]

What about working to make the existing school system better? By getting involved in the schools you can help set/fix policies.

Your kids are not yours if they go to public school because they can't go on vacation when YOU want to go? Seriously? Your kids are in school for six or seven hours a day, what about the other 17 or 18 hours? Even accounting for sleep time, you interact with your children for over a quarter of their day. What about weekends, summer and other breaks? I really do not understand that statement at all. I'm not a shrink but I think that there may be some separation anxiety issues involved here.

My DH and I are responsible for our children, no one else. Yes, they are required to be in school, which I pay for with my taxes, and I don't have any problem with that at all. Schools would be in chaos if people just sent their kids when they wanted to send them. There would be no way to plan lessons or kids would just miss out.

Back in the old days, when the boys had to go work on the farms, they missed out on huge chunks of lessons. There are parents who are just too lazy or uninvolved to make sure their kids go to school when needed. There are all kinds of reasons why the attendance policies were developed. Yes, some include funding but there are many other valid reasons too.

The way to improve the school system is by getting involved. I often find the people who complain the most are the ones who sit back and do nothing to make them better. I never see these parents at council meetings, at sporting or fund raising events, yet when I see them in the grocery store they do nothing but complain. That doesn't fly with me.
By the way, our school system would never shut down for a sporting event; if you are upset that yours does, have you done something about it?

As for homeschooling - to each his own. It is not for us. I like the socialization that my children get by going to school. I like that they learn from different teachers and are exposed to different points of view and even different cultures. I can even appreciate that they have to learn to deal with people that they may not like or with whom they do not get along - this prepares them for the real world. If, in order to get them these things, I have to follow the policies that are set in place by my school district (with my input), then so be it. JMO.

These are fairly blanket generalizations:

1st, my school, with very lax attendance policies, has GREAT attendance and statewide test scores.

Parents in my son's school are UBER involved. I can't walk into my son's school without seeing other parents there volunteering in areas that the school/teacher has asked them to do.

It's like another poster said...there's a lot of gray in the world, and kids need to learn to deal with the gray areas, not be sheeples dealing only in black and white.

 

[Colleen27]

Schools would be in chaos if people just sent their kids when they wanted to send them. There would be no way to plan lessons or kids would just miss out.

Do you really believe the only reason parents send their kids to school is because the rules say they have to? It has been my experience that the sort of parents who don't care about attendance for it's own sake also tend to be the type that don't much care about school rules. The ones following the rules are the ones who don't need a rule to tell them that their kids shouldn't be missing school excessively or without good reason.

 

[MaumeeMom]

I often find the people who complain the most are the ones who sit back and do nothing to make them better. I never see these parents at council meetings, at sporting or fund raising events, yet when I see them in the grocery store they do nothing but complain. That doesn't fly with me.

These are fairly blanket generalizations:

1st, my school, with very lax attendance policies, has GREAT attendance and statewide test scores.

Parents in my son's school are UBER involved. I can't walk into my son's school without seeing other parents there volunteering in areas that the school/teacher has asked them to do.

It's like another poster said...there's a lot of gray in the world, and kids need to learn to deal with the gray areas, not be sheeples dealing only in black and white.

First off, the part that you put in bold is not a generalization but a statement of fact, something that I have observed here at our school.

Secondly, you have kind of proved my point for me. You say that the parents in your school are very involved (and I love that!!). This shows that they are committed to helping their children get the best education that they can get. With parents like that, the attendance policy can be lax, which yours is, as stated above. The parents at your school seem to value and respect the educational process, that is wonderful. I'm betting that these same parents are involved in setting the school and district policies. I really feel that parental involvement in the schools is one of the keys to a schools success.

Your sheep have good shepherds.

 

[sbell111]

Do you really believe the only reason parents send their kids to school is because the rules say they have to? It has been my experience that the sort of parents who don't care about attendance for it's own sake also tend to be the type that don't much care about school rules. The ones following the rules are the ones who don't need a rule to tell them that their kids shouldn't be missing school excessively or without good reason.

I think that you missed her underlying point.

Attendance policies exist to ensure that all children get a good education. Without these policies we would be left with one of these scenarios:

• Teachers would have to pause their lessons to reteach material that was missed during a one of these ad hoc vacations. This would result in less material being covered and the rest of the class suffering.
• Teachers would have to reteach the missed materials on their own time
• Teachers would not reteach the material, allowing the 'vacationed' kid to flounder, resulting in distruption in the classroom, thereby negatively affecting the rest of the class.

 

[MaumeeMom]

Do you really believe the only reason parents send their kids to school is because the rules say they have to? It has been my experience that the sort of parents who don't care about attendance for it's own sake also tend to be the type that don't much care about school rules. The ones following the rules are the ones who don't need a rule to tell them that their kids shouldn't be missing school excessively or without good reason.

No, that is not what I said but I do believe that the attendance rules were implemented for a reason.

If the problems that have lead to the implementation of these rules have been fixed, then parents can work with the district to change the rules, to make them more lax.

My point was - if you don't like the rules, get involved and help change them.

 

[Tinkmom75]

All this mentality about how a student must be in a seat in a classroom makes me wonder how on earth colleges get away with online classes. How on earth do people manage to telecommute for their jobs ? Are those people lazy and uneducated? Let's face it the dynamics of school and the workforce are changing. Technology is providing so many opportunities for remote learning. John Hopkins University and Northwestern University provide remote classes for gifted students. How on earth can they do that My DS11 was involved in an online interactive computer program for math. It was awesome. He learned more from that program in one summer than he did the entire school year.

I have been very fortunate with the teachers I have had for my children. I haven't run into the bitterness I have seen on this board. Yes, I understand that everyone's circumstance is different. For the teachers that are complaining about the long hard hours, every job has that. The median income of an elementary teacher is $40,000. To me that is a good wage. That is more than a lot of people make in a year. If you work during the summer you are probably getting paid more and it is at your choosing. By the way it is standard practice by an employer that a salaried employee is expected to work 45-50 hours a week. Yes, I respect my children's teachers. I am just commenting on that because some teachers brought up the fact that they are so overworked earlier. By the way in your profession you have about 75 days more a year off than people in other professions.

 

[sbell111]

All this mentality about how a student must be in a seat in a classroom makes me wonder how on earth colleges get away with online classes. How on earth do people manage to telecommute for their jobs ? ...

That is an apples to oranges comparison.

If a student falls behind in an online class, he doesn't affect the performance of the rest of the class. If a telecommuting worker doesn't perform, you fire him.

 

[Colleen27]

I think that you missed her underlying point.

Attendance policies exist to ensure that all children get a good education. Without these policies we would be left with one of these scenarios:

• Teachers would have to pause their lessons to reteach material that was missed during a one of these ad hoc vacations. This would result in less material being covered and the rest of the class suffering.
• Teachers would have to reteach the missed materials on their own time
• Teachers would not reteach the material, allowing the 'vacationed' kid to flounder, resulting in distruption in the classroom, thereby negatively affecting the rest of the class.

You're missing a couple:

• Parents cover missed material with their children at home
• Parents plan around lulls in the curriculum to minimize/avoid missing new content

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

An Interactive math course is far different than doing a handful of worksheets and reading a text, imo. Is that all your child did? College courses are for people who have the maturity to learn, and really, an internet course that is merely reading and tests does not provide the same information as a course with interaction.

Teacher salaries vary a great deal by state, and considering that most teachers have Master's degrees or are in the midst of attaining them, the salary stinks. They do have nice vacations and hours. And decent retirement benefits.

And, where do you get your stats regarding salaried working hours? Made up?