teacher myths

[NotUrsula]

How would they not qualify for a 260K house? What kind of money do you think you need to make to pay for a house of that price? I only ask because we have friends who make about 70K as a household and, 2 years ago, purchased a house for about 300K. They pay their mortgage comfortably and still have plenty left over for savings.

That was 2 years ago. In today's mortgage market you would be hard-pressed to find a lender that would approve a mortgage for much more than 2X annual gross income -- 2.5X is now considered a stretch.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with more than 1.5X our annual gross.

Still, teachers are like a lot of local gov't workers; there is often little expectation that they will become homeowners in the area where they teach, particularly if that area is affluent. I know districts like that where there is little to no rental property -- most parents would be very surprised were one of their child's teachers to actually turn up as a neighbor.

 

[MM27]

I totally agree with your point. In NJ it is the same thing extremely powerful unions. I think one of the myths stated here said that they do pay for their medical. Well not in our part of Jersey. It is nice to have 100% of your medical benefits covered not only while you are working but also when you retire. The salaries here can also range from 40k to over 100k. Lets not even mention superintendent salaries...

And as of this year we are paying a percentage of our salary towards healthcare, so that line doesn't work anymore.

The median salary for teachers in my town is: $51,958

And we are one of the poorer counties in NJ.

Okay, median meaning that some are making less than that as well. That amount is not a lot considering that NJ has one of the highest cost of livings in the US.

True, but for 9 months' work?

Let's see..I work September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May and June. By my count, that's 10. It doesn't matter anyway, because we are contractual and our contracts are for a set number of DAYS, not months.

Teachers in NJ don't have to do Cont. Ed. Hours to keep their license?

We sure do. We have to have 100 hours in every 5 year periods. Grad school courses count, but other professional development, such as workshops can also be used towards that amount. I have earned credit hours for mentoring new staff members (you need to document meetings throughout the year), having student teachers, etc.

Here's a document I found online pertaining to NJ. Notice that attendance at NJEA convention counts toward 100 continuing education credits need over 5 years. NJ schools close two days in November so the teachers can go to Atlantic City for this convention.

I don't pretend to know everything about this, as I'm not a teacher. I'm simply going on what I know from friends who are teachers. I also know that if you are asked to rewrite curriculum over the summer, that's extra money you are paid.

http://www.state.nj.us/education/genfo/overview/faq_profdev.htm

No, we don't just get credit hours for going to Atlantic City during the convention. There are tons of workshops that are running during the convention. If you attend one, or more, of these workshops, you are getting hour credits for attendance.

 

[Scurvy]

I don't even understand what people are arguing about at this point. Are you trying to prove that teachers earn too much? Too little? The fact is, teaching is a job. The people who pay the teachers have to offer an amount that will attract the sort of people they want to hire. A few years ago school systems were so desperate to get qualified applicants that they offered all sorts of incentives, including things like paying off the teachers' college loans. These days, with all the budget cuts and layoffs most systems are dealing with, there are more than enough qualified teachers to go around. They don't seem as "valuable" now that they aren't as hard to get, and people don't have to offer those incentives. Still, the systems have to offer a high enough salary that the qualified people are going to consider the jobs there. The system isn't going to offer more than they have to, though, and some places teachers do not earn very much at all. Despite some of the assertations on this thread, you can't just hire anyone and train them to teach. And as a parent with a child in public school, I'm glad about that. I don't want my child taught by some random person off the street. I want someone who is well educated and experienced in teaching. Doesn't everyone?

Lol, do YOU think that teaching grade school is rocket science?

Are you really surprised that someone took offense to that statement? "It isn't rocket science" is typically used in a dismissive, belittling way. Half the time it's followed by "a trained monkey could do it". When used about another person's job, it's intended to be insulting. People use the phrase to imply that a job is easy or that is could be done by anyone. It goes right along with "She's no rocket scientist" which is used to imply someone is not particularly intelligent. Unless you have reason to believe that someone on this thread actually thought that teachers do in fact design rockets and you were trying to clear up their confusion, you were using the phrase in a derogatory manner. And that's fine - you are entitled to express your opinion. But it's ridiculous to act surprised when someone objects to it.

A few rounds of Safety Town doesn't make you an expert in being a classroom teacher, believe it or not. I've taken lots of kids to Safety City, which sounds similar. It's neat, and can be fun or frustrating depending on the kids. And it's nothing like being in an actual classroom, with all the policies and requirements and problem parents that go along with it. (Well, they both involve kids, so maybe it's something like it. ) It's more like Space Camp. It's new, and interesting, and the kids are more interested in learning those things than an ordinary math lesson. Maybe you could teach a third grade class for a year and do a great job. Maybe you couldn't. Unless you've actually done it, you can't assume you know what it's like. The fact is, not everyone is suited to teaching. It's not like flipping burgers. Are teachers more important than all other jobs? Of course not. Are they important? Of course they are.

 

[emma'smom]

Actually, I don't really think rocket science is all that difficult. I'm actually not sure what a "rocket scientist" even is. An aeronautical engineer? Last I checked...these folks all had master's degrees too....and they had lots of teachers who spent long hours teaching them the skills they needed along the way.

If we're talking about aeronautical engineers...then I would argue that my brother (a "rocket scientist" in your terms) would fall apart in a 3rd grade classroom. He would fully admit it. Documenting and planning for the development needs of 28 different students while having no control over the 3/4 of the "input" time...yet being accountable for 100% of the output. No way!

Gosh darn it---that silly government and all it's crazy requirements that the folks who educate actually have an education....or that we, as a nation, we should assure that our rising leaders have the appropriate knowledge-base and/or skills to lead efficiently and thoughtfully.

Like any situation, some schools of higher education offer a higher quality degree than others. I'm guessing, since you seem not to value your own M.ED., that you must have picked poorly. I'm sorry for your loss!

Lol, do YOU think that teaching grade school is rocket science?

Would you feel better to know that most jobs aren't. Most jobs could be done by someone with a good career training program. It doesn't take a master's program to become a good teacher. It is just a silly requirement by the govt. who has no clue how to improve the educational system.

The teachers in our county work 9 months, period. Training can be done during the school year or many of them CHOOSE to go to a training elsewhere so that they can party for the week. Their words, not mine. These are my pool mom buddies. They appreciate their schedule...a lot! I, btw, have to pay for my own career enhancement training, also.

btw, I never suggested that crowd control was the primary issue in schools. But if you have ever worked with a group of kids that is always an aspect of it.

 

[Michelle and crew]

30 years working in the school system makes me an expert. that
was just my summer fun. You could probably do my job too with some education
and training. It isn't
rocket science either. No need to be so defensive. I just think that teachers are important just like other people who make up a pleasant society. I never said anything about a monkey. No need to add your history to my post.

 

[HsvTeacher]

As for teaching for 2 weeks, I did 4 sets of Safety Town this year. 30 kids in a group, all day long, 2 week classes. It was a busy summer. Crowd control and teaching. No biggie. It isn't rocket science, I'm sorry. That doesn't make it not important. I'm 30 years into a career that has involved a huge committment to the school system. I like teachers. But you all aren't any more important than the rest of the world. Just another cog in the machine of life.

Let me get this straight...You're comparing teaching a Safety Town program, which is bicycle safety, how to dial 911, not talking to strangers, etc., to teaching an elementary class? That's like comparing apples to monkeys!

Like the PP said, come spend a few weeks in my 2nd grade classroom, where we teach real things like reading, phonics, language, math, science, and social studies, and then we'll talk. Try teaching 19 kids, all on different levels and with different needs, and then we'll talk. Try disaggregating assessments and using the information to benefit each student, and then we'll talk. I could go on and on...

 

[Scurvy]

30 years working in the school system makes me an expert. that
was just my summer fun. You could probably do my job too with some education
and training. It isn't
rocket science either. No need to be so defensive. I just think that teachers are important just like other people who make up a pleasant society. I never said anything about a monkey. No need to add your history to my post.

30 years in the school system is not the same as 30 years in the classroom. You could be a janitor or a receptionist and be "in the school system". Try teaching in an actual classroom and then you'll be an expert in it.

Regardless, you can't be unaware of the negative connotation of the phrase you've chosen to use. I am sure it isn't a surprise to you that people react negatively to it, but I get the impression that's what you're looking for.

 

[MELSMICE]

30 years in the school system is not the same as 30 years in the classroom. You could be a janitor or a receptionist and be "in the school system". Try teaching in an actual classroom and then you'll be an expert in it.

Regardless, you can't be unaware of the negative connotation of the phrase you've chosen to use. I am sure it isn't a surprise to you that people react negatively to it, but I get the impression that's what you're looking for.

Couldn't agree more with everything said here.

 

[torinsmom]

I think the biggest myth is that every teacher in the US gets the same benefits as the teachers in your area. Every area is different.

Disclaimer: None of this is complaining; it is just the facts. I love my job and that's why I chose it.

I do not make $100,000 a year. Actually, in NC, a teacher with 33+ years of teaching experience, a Masters degree AND National Board Certification can make $64,750.

Oh, no union here. Our situation may be the reason so many states have them. I am looking at the 2007-2008 pay scale and between then and now, teacher pay has gone up between $200-$500/year at most. I am looking at 12 years experience because that is where I am. Can you believe the salary went DOWN $40? I am getting a Master's degree, so I can afford to live without 2 part time jobs.

The state does not "give" me retirement income. They take money out of my paycheck each month, invest it and I get it when I retire, much like other businesses' 401K programs.

I don't get three months off in summer. This past year, kids got out on June 10th. We were required to work through June 16th. We went back to school for our workdays on August 16th. So, 2 months, although I am not paid for that anyway.I didn't go to any workshops this summer, but I did do most of my planning at home. It has to be done because......

Planning time is not even planning time. We are required to meet 3X a week with other teachers, the principal, the literacy specialist, the PTA president, etc., and also take time to give each other advice on how to deal with student issues. So I have 2 days without that, which are usually taken up copying or running around like a chicken with my head cut off(35 minutes is all we have). Oh, and we do not get a lunch break except once a month when the PTA watches the kids during lunch. We eat lunch with the kids.

K and even PreK are definitely not playtime. Our rising 1st graders are expected to be reading well, and not just phonetic words, but sight words as well. They are also expected to write 3-4 sentences to a prompt. I won't even get into math. And even the child who starts school not knowing one word of English is expected to meet the same standards. If your kids don't meet the standards, you are held responsible.

I don't think anyone can teach. If they could, there wouldn't be such a high turnover rate. Oh, and all the people who complain we make too much money and get all this time off would be teachers if anyone could do it. Is it the hardest job in the world--no. It does take a lot out of you emotionally, especially when you have to deal with people with the kind of attitudes some people on this forum have towards us. Luckily, I haven't met many of those IRL. Most of my parents love me because their kids love me and are learning so much in my classroom.

Marsha

 

[emma'smom]

I did Safety Town this year too. That was "summer fun"-- slapping worksheets down for the kids to color, singing the Wheels on the Bus from the print-out that they gave us, glue sticking a few paper fire hats together, pretending to dial 911 on toy phones.

If that's what some folks are calling "teaching", I change my mind---I agree with the folks that say anyone can teach. Anyone who can push a button can make and pass out "busy work".


I was talking about actual TEACHING!

Oh...I want to add that classroom teachers are very important, but I also would argue that GOOD administrators are vital as well. They are all "cogs in the machine"-- an extremely valuable societal machine!

 

[rabyoga]

Teaching myth I'm gonna bust....

School can be FUN!!! You can learn and have fun at the same time.

My students are always suprised when I say we can laugh and have fun AND learn at the same time. Granted, it's not all the time. I'm very honest with my students about things: When we have standardized testing, I let them know it's not the most fun thing in the world but it's necessary.

While I have standards I want my students to meet, ultimately I believe the greatest gift I can give my students- a love of learning

 

[PrincessKsMom]

And as of this year we are paying a percentage of our salary towards healthcare, so that line doesn't work anymore.

I think the point was most employees pay toward the medical. Teachers in NJ were the last holdout. Free medical until this year -- unheard of anywhere else and all the teachers are complaining about it when everyone else has been doing it for years.

Okay, median meaning that some are making less than that as well. That amount is not a lot considering that NJ has one of the highest cost of livings in the US.

Thanks for the explanation. I know what median means. My point was that others were complaining that teachers don't make any money. If this was median, there are plenty who make more. I do agree it's peanuts in NJ but again you're not working a full year. Many people make that median salary (or lower) and work a full year and get very little time off from work, paid or otherwise.

Let's see..I work September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May and June. By my count, that's 10. It doesn't matter anyway, because we are contractual and our contracts are for a set number of DAYS, not months.

If you read my post further down, you'd see I said some schools are 9 months, some are 10. I believe your contract is probably 190-200 days. Again, you're probably making more than many of your neighbors who are working a complete year.


We sure do. We have to have 100 hours in every 5 year periods. Grad school courses count, but other professional development, such as workshops can also be used towards that amount. I have earned credit hours for mentoring new staff members (you need to document meetings throughout the year), having student teachers, etc.

Yes 100 hours every 5 years. But if school is closed every year for 2 days, and it's a 3 or 4 day conference, you're far ahead of the game. If you had to do these hours on top of being in school without the schools closing for two days, it would be more difficult. And how many teachers actually don't attend but head to WDW for Jersey Week on that weekend?

No, we don't just get credit hours for going to Atlantic City during the convention. There are tons of workshops that are running during the convention. If you attend one, or more, of these workshops, you are getting hour credits for attendance.

No one is saying you don't attend workshops while there, but isn't it nice that you have your own convention and time away to complete these hours? Please don't tell me what a hardship going to Atlantic City is. And what does that cost the taxpayers every year? In private corporations, like law firms, the firm itself swallows the cost of such continuing legal education for its lawyers. For teachers, the public swallows the cost.

All of this aside, I still think it's a much better job once the benefits, salary and time off are factored in. I don't feel sorry for teachers who have to get a second job during the summer to make ends meet. Most everyone works a full year.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I'd just like to add, I know teachers who bust their butts and are truly vested in their students and I don't think you could ever pay them enough for the difference they make in their students lives.

I also know some teachers who coast through life and do the bare minimum. I think those teachers should be reprimanded and fired if necessary. This whole union protection thing really burns my butt. If I don't do well on my reviews I could lose my job, why shouldn't they?

I also think high school teachers should be paid more money than grammar school teachers.

 

[dimimi]

I love it when people say I get 2 or 3 months off! We don't get paid for that time! We are paid for 186 days of work, districts can't afford to pay teacher's their salary during that time, so the pay is divided over 12 months.

Also, my sister was shocked to hear that the EASY part of my day is the time I am teaching. The hard part is all of the planning and paper work that goes with the teaching. (I teach special education.)

I do love my job though and I am happy to have a career that I enjoy.

 

[Tinkermommy]

Actually they are to a point. If you live in an area where it costs $500K to buy a house and are only willing to pay $30K to someone, you won't get any employees. Companies that have offices around the country do make allowances for cost of living differences. On the converse, no company is going to pay someone $150K in an area where you can buy a house for $40K and only need a BA for the job either. All of this assuming minimum education and experience requirements but for a job that requires a Masters Degree they wage should be a livable wage for the area.

You just proved my point. If a high income area offers too little salary and no one accepts the job don't you think they would raise the salary then?

And cost of living is a variable an employer can use to determine wage. It's still comes down to what someone is willing to accept.

As a pp mentioned, salaries several years ago were high and offered lots of incentives since there was a shortfall of teachers. Now, the salary has adjusted and people offer less and employees accept less as well.

 

[lyeag]

Really? I've never had a full time salaried position that didn't give you a lunch break.

Our school requires lunch duty where you are on duty for the entire lunch period, including recess. I leave my class, eat standing up while walking up and down between the tables, and have two minutes to use the restroom after lunch before being expected to let students into my class.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I love it when people say I get 2 or 3 months off! We don't get paid for that time! We are paid for 186 days of work, districts can't afford to pay teacher's their salary during that time, so the pay is divided over 12 months.

But many compare their salaries to people who work a full year round job. That's why people point to the significant amount of time off that a teacher gets. You also have the opportunity during that period to earn additional income if you so choose.

So a $40,000 job that works for 186 is paid at the same daily rate as a 12 month job (260 days) that is paid $55K.

 

[Michelle and crew]

lol, see that is the problem. You all really think that what you do is unimaginable, or special in some mystic sort of way. It isn't. Most people get that about their jobs. I know that I save high risk children, but I know that I am a cog. They teach the "self esteem" lessons in teacher school too, lol. There is a myth for you.

And if someone says you are not extra special, they are teacher bashers...

 

[poohs_hunny]

The bashers live for these threads but what they don't realize is that if it were not for a teacher, they would not even be able to read or respond to them.

Thing is why don't they all become teachers; it is as they say "so easy"? Jeeze that is why when they list highest stress professions teacher is right up there in the top three!

The stress must come from trying to decide which bon-bon to pick out of the box while sitting at your desk in designer clothes while perfectly behaved little children sit at their desks begging for knowledge. Yeah, that must be it. It couldn't come from trying to reach and teach all children while being constantly criticized by people who have no idea what they are talking about and furthermore, cannot even teach their own children how to tie a shoe, blow a nose, or even brush their own teeth(have had to teach all these things and more many very gross).

 

[MELSMICE]

lol, see that is the problem. You all really think that what you do is unimaginable, or special in some mystic sort of way. It isn't. Most people get that about their jobs. I know that I save high risk children, but I know that I am a cog. They teach the "self esteem" lessons in teacher school too, lol. There is a myth for you.

And if someone says you are not extra special, they are teacher bashers...

There are many people that are teachers, so it certainly isn't unimaginable, however, I believe it takes a special person to educate a classroom full of children of any age.

I believe saving high risk children is pretty cool & special also. If that is what you do, it doesn't seem as though you appreciate the fact that you are able to do it.

What is teacher school?