Target’s Turn

[RamblingMad]

Saw in the news Walmart stores closing due to high crime. Now, it looks like Target might be next.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/05/17...-retail-crime-fueled-losses-have-shot-up.html

 

[barkley]

some of target's lost revenue not related to theft may well be b/c of shoppers like myself who used to do some regular online shopping of household goods when they would have them on sale but shifted to other providers when target eliminated those sales offers and promotions to only those who shopped in-store or did pickup. even if the sales/promos weren't as good so they could offset their increased shipping costs i would continue to use them but i'm not going to do a 2 hour round trip to pay the identical price other merchants offer with free or reduced cost shipping.

on the theft issue-went to a newer'ish walmart recently that had also done a recent remodel-first walmart i've ever been in where the pharmacy/otc/beauty stuff was not right by the entrance. apparently that's one of their biggest theft targets so they relocated the entire department to its own little self contained area in the middle of the store.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Seems that article is skeptical that it's just due to theft. Target has had some mismanagement problems recently and it sure sounds like a deflection.

Also, the WalMart closures (assuming you're talking about the ones in Chicago) were stores that were never profitable. Theft is a component to that but those stores been losing money for over a decade so it's not a recent thing.

 

[HopperFan]

some of target's lost revenue not related to theft may well be b/c of shoppers like myself who used to do some regular online shopping of household goods when they would have them on sale but shifted to other providers when target eliminated those sales offers and promotions to only those who shopped in-store or did pickup. even if the sales/promos weren't as good so they could offset their increased shipping costs i would continue to use them but i'm not going to do a 2 hour round trip to pay the identical price other merchants offer with free or reduced cost shipping.

on the theft issue-went to a newer'ish walmart recently that had also done a recent remodel-first walmart i've ever been in where the pharmacy/otc/beauty stuff was not right by the entrance. apparently that's one of their biggest theft targets so they relocated the entire department to its own little self contained area in the middle of the store.

I would say I'm not in a high theft area and any given time or day most the Targets & Walmarts by me are empty. Every time I wonder how in the world are they staying in business. Such a huge store with so few customers. Our closest mall is also in an affluent area, dying, half the stores now empty. Developers want to tear half of it down for a live/work/play add on.

COVID pushed me to more and more online shopping and and given the ongoing news, I don't think it's necessarily safe anymore to shop, how sad. Honestly I don't miss the in store experience. I have more options online, it saves time and gas, and it's safe.

As far as the stores in high theft areas I don't blame them at all for closing down. They don't owe any community anything, especially if they are losing money.

 

[Wendy31]

I always hate, now, when I wait until the last minute & don’t have time for shipping, so I have to actually go the department store & shop.

The selections are horrible, the service is never great, & the stores just all look dingy & cluttery/messy.

 

[Imzadi]

some of target's lost revenue not related to theft may well be b/c of shoppers like myself who used to do some regular online shopping of household goods when they would have them on sale but shifted to other providers when target eliminated those sales offers and promotions to only those who shopped in-store or did pickup.

This! Long before the pandemic made shopping for pantry items online popular, I used to order a LOT of food & health & beauty items from Walmart & Target. Their prices are so much cheaper, as they follow national or regional pricing, than what we have to pay in NYC for the same items. AND I would get free shipping over $35.

But, now MOST of the items I used to get cannot be ordered and shipped. PERIOD. I can't even order them at a higher price. And the promotional prices of other items are only for order and pickup. Both Walmart & Target are too far away to pick up the items. Just not cost effective, and not convenient without a car. So, BOTH have lost many, many sales from me that they WOULD HAVE gotten, had they simply included these items for shipping. They only have themselves to blame for their loss of sales.

 

[kymom99]

We went to a target in New York State. It was a mess. Shoes all over the floor. Such a shame.

Last time I went to Penney’s (last summer) it was as hot as an oven. Apparently the AC wasn’t working. And as a PP said, it was very run down and dingy. If I go shopping, I’d like to feel like I’m in a nice, clean store.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I love Target, but almost never go inside anymore. I do their curbisde pick up for most anything I need. It's easy and it saves me money by not making impulse purchases while I am in there.

 

[Imzadi]

It was announced on the news last night that the only full size, Super Target store we have in Manhattan will close in a month due to all the thefts and assaults on the employees. (There are several "mini Targets" around, that are a quarter of the full size stores. They are more like 7-Elevens with some clothes and housewares.)

I've never gone to this store location as it's in the worst neighborhood in Manhattan, East Harlem. I didn't want to be robbed of my packages on the way to the subway after shopping. Sad to hear that now the crime is IN the store, not just leaving it.

The worst part is that most of the criminals probably live in that neighborhood. So, what they've done is impact their own neighborhood. The local news said it was one of the few places that have fresh food at decent prices.

Target said they are also closing stores in the San Francisco Bay area, Portland and Seattle, too.

 

[fly girl]

Fully admit, I shop online myself, but if you have watched any news outlet you will see the dramatic rise with theft and mass theft occurring when a group of people come in and just ransack the place. I just saw yet another piece on Today Show this morning about it. I see it at least a couple times a week on the news. (California seems to be the epicenter, but the problem is all over.)

It is so easy to figure out why. We have become way too soft on this issue. California won't do anything if it is under $950. That is INSANITY! Creates a breeding ground for this to become a regular occurrence. It is a no brainer why the stores are closing so rapidly in San Francisco. Duh! I even saw a piece yesterday purse snatchers in broad daylight dragging a woman on the concrete who was not giving into the thieves. BROAD DAYLIGHT and on camera!! It shows you the thieves know there is zero to little consequence so they keep doing it.

Makes me sick. I still cannot believe officials have let it go on this long. And some act like they had no idea this could be a result of not prosecuting.

 

[Imzadi]

Fully admit, I shop online myself, but if you have watched any news outlet you will see the dramatic rise with theft and mass theft occurring when a group of people come in and just ransack the place. I just saw yet another piece on Today Show this morning about it. I see it at least a couple times a week on the news. (California seems to be the epicenter, but the problem is all over.)

It is so easy to figure out why. We have become way too soft on this issue. California won't do anything if it is under $950. That is INSANITY! Creates a breeding ground for this to become a regular occurrence. It is a no brainer why the stores are closing so rapidly in San Francisco. Duh! I even saw a piece yesterday purse snatchers in broad daylight dragging a woman on the concrete who was not giving into the thieves. BROAD DAYLIGHT and on camera!! It shows you the thieves know there is zero to little consequence so they keep doing it.

Makes me sick. I still cannot believe officials have let it go on this long. And some act like they had no idea this could be a result of not prosecuting.

The NYC Mayor & the NYPD are supposedly surprised that this Target is closing. They said they had put extra police around the Target. Yet, if they really aren't going to DO anything to the criminals, and/or let them right back out on the streets after they've been arrested, of course the criminals aren't going to stop.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Target has said they are closing a couple stores in each city. For context:
Portland: 3 closing, 15 stores remaining
Seattle: 2 closing, 22 stores remaining
San Francisco: 3 closing, 32 stores remaining
New York City: 1 closing, 96 stores remaining

https://corporate.target.com/press/...es-to-prioritize-team-member-and-guest-safety

Fully admit, I shop online myself, but if you have watched any news outlet you will see the dramatic rise with theft and mass theft occurring when a group of people come in and just ransack the place. I just saw yet another piece on Today Show this morning about it. I see it at least a couple times a week on the news. (California seems to be the epicenter, but the problem is all over.)

Is it really a dramatic rise though or is it just an increase in media coverage?

I know a few people who are completely terrified of going into Chicago despite the fact that crime rates are significantly better now than they were in the 80s/90s when they had no problem visiting that city. They spend way too much time watching cable news channels, to say the least.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Why would any retailer keep a store in a location where it will only lose money?

it not just stolen product, but also the liability of having your employees get hurt at work…

 

[NotUrsula]

I have to say that while it's regrettable that prosecutors are backing away from prosecuting shoplifting, I can see why it happens, given the lack of tax funding that so many are dealing with, the difficulty of finding decent staff, the case backlog, and the increasing sophistication of criminal enterprises. (Programs that pay back law school loans for spending 3 years in local service as a public defender or prosecutor would probably help quite a bit.)

Here's the thing: most stores are trying to address this situation by putting up barriers of one sort or another. They work to some extent, but the kind of shoplifting that closes stores is organized crime, and it needs to be investigated as such. Prosecuting the thieves won't stop it, because petty thugs and junkies are a dime a dozen; these rings need to be taken down at the root, by detectives, not off-duty officers stationed in stores. It would also help *immensely* if eBay and similar platforms refused to allow selling of household staples. At least that would greatly reduce the black market for shaving supplies, laundry detergents, diapers and baby formula.

If this keeps up, folks in economically disadvantaged areas will be sliding right back into 1915, to the era where all stores kept everything behind the counter, where it was fetched by clerks who rang it up before handing it over. The lines will be insane for folks who don't have credit cards and cannot order ahead for pickup.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I have to say that while it's regrettable that prosecutors are backing away from prosecuting shoplifting, I can see why it happens, given the lack of tax funding that so many are dealing with, the difficulty of finding decent staff, the case backlog, and the increasing sophistication of criminal enterprises. (Programs that pay back law school loans for spending 3 years in local service as a public defender or prosecutor would probably help quite a bit.)

Here's the thing: most stores are trying to address this situation by putting up barriers of one sort or another. They work to some extent, but the kind of shoplifting that closes stores is organized crime, and it needs to be investigated as such. Prosecuting the thieves won't stop it, because petty thugs and junkies are a dime a dozen; these rings need to be taken down at the root, by detectives, not off-duty officers stationed in stores. It would also help *immensely* if eBay and similar platforms refused to allow selling of household staples. At least that would greatly reduce the black market for shaving supplies, laundry detergents, diapers and baby formula.

If this keeps up, folks in economically disadvantaged areas will be sliding right back into 1915, to the era where all stores kept everything behind the counter, where it was fetched by clerks who rang it up before handing it over. The lines will be insane for folks who don't have credit cards and cannot order ahead for pickup.

most state have programs that will pay, teacher, lawyers, dr. Students loans after 5 years of public service..

the problem is the corporation are too worried of the optics of having shop lifter arrested…. It is not the in thing to do, and If you have shop lifter arrested, part of your paying customers get offended and shop else where….

 

[NotUrsula]

most state have programs that will pay, teacher, lawyers, dr. Students loans after 5 years of public service..

the problem is the corporation are too worried of the optics of having shop lifter arrested…. It is not the in thing to do, and If you have shop lifter arrested, part of your paying customers get offended and shop else where….

My state does not have a state program; they only administer the Federal (JRJ) program, and of course, funds through that are limited.

As for the second statement, with all due respect, I think that's nonsense, no paying customer with the ability to add 2+2 would get offended seeing a theft stopped by an arrest, because the rest of us pay more when stores are plagued by theft. Store detectives here (usually off-duty LEOS) bust shoplifters quite frequently; at which point the uniformed cops come and march them out of the store in cuffs. I've seen it happen everywhere I go. (Most of them probably get off with a warning or probation, but stores do have them arrested.) They generally won't engage in a chase because of the possibility that the shoplifter might shoot bystanders, but I've more than once seen two of them box a shoplifter in an aisle and then walk them to the back. I believe they think it's worth it to build a record, in that repeat offenders may be able to provide some information at finding the racketeers running the rings. My local Target store also has a ban list, and the store guards turn those people away at the door if they are seen on the monitors.

Locally, at least 3 organized rings have been busted in the past year. One was run by a 19 yo who was using juveniles to do the dirty work; they caught him sitting on $71K of merchandise taken from Ulta stores. Another one was a multistate tool theft ring that was busted by local police and then finished off by Homeland Security, which is working on these cases as part of their mission to protect US commerce.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

My state does not have a state program; they only administer the Federal (JRJ) program, and of course, funds through that are limited.

As for the second statement, with all due respect, I think that's nonsense, no paying customer with the ability to add 2+2 would get offended seeing a theft stopped by an arrest, because the rest of us pay more when stores are plagued by theft. Store detectives here (usually off-duty LEOS) bust shoplifters quite frequently; at which point the uniformed cops come and march them out of the store in cuffs. I've seen it happen everywhere I go. (Most of them probably get off with a warning or probation, but stores do have them arrested.) They generally won't engage in a chase because of the possibility that the shoplifter might shoot bystanders, but I've more than once seen two of them box a shoplifter in an aisle and then walk them to the back. I believe they think it's worth it to build a record, in that repeat offenders may be able to provide some information at finding the racketeers running the rings. My local Target store also has a ban list, and the store guards turn those people away at the door if they are seen on the monitors.

Locally, at least 3 organized rings have been busted in the past year. One was run by a 19 yo who was using juveniles to do the dirty work; they caught him sitting on $71K of merchandise taken from Ulta stores. Another one was a multistate tool theft ring that was busted by local police and then finished off by Homeland Security, which is working on these cases as part of their mission to protect US commerce.

What state is that

if you think it is non sense why do employees get fired for it?

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/lowes-worker-fired-after-trying-stop-shoplifters-gets-job-back/X6MP3Q45WFCZVAYP6GMJ4KRTNY/#:~:text=The Lowes employee, Donna Hansbrough,three suspects are at large.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/06/king-...no-burrola-fired-after-recording-shoplifters/

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Maybe Lululemon and Apple Store might consider a little bit of this, at least in Philadelphia.

What is it about that stupid city? It's supposed to be the city of brotherly love, yet they have the most obnoxious fans in sports and their citizens do moronic stuff like this.

https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphi...rtheast-philadelphia-stores-ransacked-looted/

 

[starlite_]

I wonder if the rising cost of everything might have something to do with the rising amount of store theft...

 

[NotUrsula]

What state is that

if you think it is non sense why do employees get fired for it?

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/lowes-worker-fired-after-trying-stop-shoplifters-gets-job-back/X6MP3Q45WFCZVAYP6GMJ4KRTNY/#:~:text=The Lowes employee, Donna Hansbrough,three suspects are at large.

https://nypost.com/2023/07/06/king-...no-burrola-fired-after-recording-shoplifters/

They don't want untrained line workers trying to stop them; that comes with way too much possible worker's comp liability, not to mention how many bystanders might get hurt. Trained personnel whose job it is to manage shrinkage are another thing entirely.

When stores tell workers not to try to stop shoplifters, it has nothing to do with not offending other customers, which is the part that I was calling out as nonsense. The reason that stores set limits on what employees can & cannot do in this regard is purely about legal liability. They do not want to be sued for millions by a customer who got shot because an untrained teenaged employee tried to tackle an armed shoplifter, nor do they want to be on the hook for lifetime medical and financial support for that same employee if he becomes permanently disabled in the confrontation.