Table Manners....

[mhsjax]

Maybe it's regional? My family derives from Oklahoma and California. They have never heard of it.

deleted. Too early to form a clear thought.

 

[Heidict]

You're assuming (a) the bread is served warm in a vessel that won't keep it warm and (b) your host isn't providing you butter at spreadable consistency, such as whipped butter, or temperature? Restaurants are generally good about this.

I hate it when they serve you cold hard butter. Even with hot bread it just sits there, unspreadable. We have one place that always does this and I always have to take a few of the wrapped butters and hold them in my hand for a few minutes to warm them up and make it spreadable.

I have a feeling I'm probably violating any number of etiquette rules by doing this but if I waited for it to happen naturally then my meal would be over by the time the butter is actually spreadable.

 

[leebee]

Maybe it's regional? My family derives from Oklahoma and California. They have never heard of it.

About 20 pages or so ago, we had the "maybe it's regional" discussion and it seemed it wasn't. I think it's just a question of whether your parents taught/enforced it. I've always known about this and prefer to eat my bread/rolls that way; I don't get a "butter smile" from biting into a flat edge of buttered bread if I break the piece into individual bites before putting them in my mouth.

Thirty-plus pages on how to butter/eat bread and rolls; INCREDIBLE!!

 

[goofy!]

and



This I think have something in common because the second answers the first.

I honestly don't get the posts about 'not enjoying' a meal because people would be 'worrying' about tearing their bread or putting their napkin in their lap or which fork to use when.

It's not something you worry, or even think about if you learned these things when young and/or practiced them regularly. It's so ingrained I don't remember having learned it - as I said earlier, same as I don't remember learning to hold a fork properly.

I don't get how having good manners at Bubba Gump's would be bad, and while other people are "enjoying their meal" - people who practice table etiquette don't?

Do you think the poster who attended the luncheon with the Secretary of State (that's cool, btw) didn't enjoy the experience because he or she used proper manners? I'm guessing the poster's manners didn't even occur to the poster once, because the poster learned proper manners as a child and they're second nature. Which is why those of us whose parents taught us or sent us to be taught these things did so, so that we would be comfortable dining in a situation like that, WITHOUT having to think about what to do. It's, again, not about superiority, but preparation for a range of situations.

Since you quoted me (and god forbid, at 31 pages, we wouldn't want this threat to end), notice that I was referring to attitude along with the proper etiquette.

If you were the only one eating bread at Bubbu Gumps the proper way, and with a subtle attitude of superiority (and frankly, I do get that from your posts), then manners would trump etiquette.

No matter what the etiquette books say about how to eat bread, they also say that manners demand that you never make your dining partners uncomfortable. If you make your dining partners self-conscious by practicing proper etiquette while looking down at your nose at them, then it would be very bad manners to eat your bread the proper way.

If you can do it unobtrusively, without calling attention to yourself, then it is perfectly fine to have bread breaking manners at a place where there is a bucket and a roll of paper towels in the middle of the table. But..if you are the only one at the table doing it and you act snooty doing it, then you (general you) are displaying very poor manners.

Another example - the person above whose puppy will steal the napkin if you place it on your lap. If you had dinner at her house and you still insisted on putting your napkin on your lap despite the host's wishes, even though it is proper etiquette, you would be displaying extremely poor manners to insist on proper etiquette against your host's wishes. The host has a perfectly good reason not to follow proper etiquette - she doesn't want her puppy ruining napkins and could get sick if ingesting paper or fabric -so this would be a time when proper etiquette would be very poor manners.

Proper etiquette exists, and usually for a good reason. However, a person with good manners will assess the situation and determine whether rigid following of proper etiquette might actually be, in fact, poor manners. A person with exemplary manners is not rigid and adapts to each situation so as not to offend their hosts or fellow dining partners.

 

[goofy!]

The Proms in our area are still very formal, but pretty much for attire only...and that only lasts until the dancing starts, and then the coats come off, ties loosened, etc.

As to the meal? Well, I am stretching my mind back to 1995 for my Senior Prom (which I did wear a tux for), but I don't recall anyone going out of their way to act formal during Dinner. Jokes were made about which fork to use, but nobody really cared what anyone was doing. As to the rolls? Well I do remember some being passed around like footballs.

That happened at a family holiday dinner in our "proper" house.

We had about 20 people sitting around the dining room table, table cloth, fine china, silverware, crystal. There were regular forks, salad forks, dessert forks, bread plates, salad plates, everything in proper serving dishes, the works.

BIL was sitting at one end and asked if somebody could "pass" him a roll. Nephew, sitting at the other end, literally "passed" a roll, everybody watching as it sailed through the air over the immaculately set table.

It is now family legend that both MIL's did not need CPR resuscitation. And we still get a good laugh about it, even 15 years after the fact.

 

[Carrie_Cat]

I have to ask..what's smacking ?

As to me it's hitting someone normally a child when they are being naughty and I don't think that it ties in with table manners

ps- the salad thing..we wash and shred salad so it's nearly always in small pieces. It's only green leaves, no onions, tomatoes or whatnot.

If it's too big a piece and you can't fold it with your fork you push it on your fork with a bit of bread and it's only really served like this along with the cheese after the main course and before dessert.

Never had or ever seen an iceberg lettuce wedge, we don't get iceberg here really but will look out for it next year when we come to the US.

Do you always get bread and butter in restaurants and when is it served, with the starters or with the main course ?

 

[Heidict]

I have to ask..what's smacking ?

As to me it's hitting someone normally a child when they are being naughty and I don't think that it ties in with table manners

ps- the salad thing..we wash and shred salad so it's nearly always in small pieces. It's only green leaves, no onions, tomatoes or whatnot.

If it's too big a piece and you can't fold it with your fork you push it on your fork with a bit of bread and it's only really served like this along with the cheese after the main course and before dessert.

Never had or ever seen an iceberg lettuce wedge, we don't get iceberg here really but will look out for it next year when we come to the US.

Do you always get bread and butter in restaurants and when is it served, with the starters or with the main course ?

They mean smacking their lips when eating. It make s very annoying noise.


The bread is normally served at the beginning of a meal with the appetizers, salad or soup.

 

[Jennasis]

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

 

[KristaTX]

This is a conundrum. The "with" is implied, because [we ] grammar sticklers are aware it's improper to either end or begin a sentence with a preposition.

I believe that the bread/butter thing is an official rule of etiquette. I would guess that 85%+ of the world does not do that, but if you want to continue following the rule then feel free to do so. Just don't expect anyone else to do so.

But now you are going to try to convince us all that beginning a sentence with a prepositional phrase is a grammatical no-no? If it is, then even Genesis gets off to a very bad start. The only confusion I have ever seen regarding prepositional phrases at the beginning of sentences is whether or not a comma is necessary.

If it ever was a rule, it is even more antiquated than the bread rule and must have been made up by the same group of people.

 

[wvjules]

We had a luncheon at work today. I ate my fried chicken breast with my hands and I buttered my whole roll at once and took bites of it and put it back on my plate.

 

[SaraJayne]

We had a luncheon at work today. I ate my fried chicken breast with my hands and I buttered my whole roll at once and took bites of it and put it back on my plate.

I sure hope you still have a job, young lady!!

 

[kimmar067]

We had a luncheon at work today. I ate my fried chicken breast with my hands and I buttered my whole roll at once and took bites of it and put it back on my plate.

....and THEN you licked your fingers?

 

[doris1976]

Slurping soup and belching.

 

[wvjules]

....and THEN you licked your fingers?

Duh! It was finger lickin' good!

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

Buttering each and every bite of bread sounds more like gluttony than good manners.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I hate it when they serve you cold hard butter. Even with hot bread it just sits there, unspreadable. We have one place that always does this and I always have to take a few of the wrapped butters and hold them in my hand for a few minutes to warm them up and make it spreadable.

I have a feeling I'm probably violating any number of etiquette rules by doing this but if I waited for it to happen naturally then my meal would be over by the time the butter is actually spreadable.

Perfectly fine a long as you're discreet. No putting the wrapped pats in your mouth to soften them up faster

 

[wdwmom0f3]

This grosses me out just watching it. It's a clip from King of Queens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unXKYK0uRJ8&feature=related


Here is a video for bread etiquette.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbjT6cU_s-8

 

[usnuzuloose]

Duh! It was finger lickin' good!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Slurping soup and belching.

What? Wait. You mean there's an actua topic to this thread?