Suspension of Kindergartners - Your thoughts???

[dumboiu]

Suspension of Kindergartners Increasing

By MARYCLAIRE DALE
.c The Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - One hit a pregnant teacher, another exposed himself and another stabbed a classmate with a pencil.

They've all been suspended from school this year. And they're all kindergartners.

In the first four months under new schools chief Paul Vallas, 33 kindergartners have been suspended from Philadelphia public schools, up from just one during the same period last year.

``The goal is to get the parents in,'' said Gwen Morris, who oversees alternative education for the 200,000-student district. ``What it says is, we have a uniform policy that everyone will be held to.''

The U.S. Department of Education does not break down school suspensions by grade level, but several researchers said they see anecdotal evidence that the youngest schoolchildren are being suspended more frequently.

Morris believes suspensions, combined with counseling and other measures, are an effective tool in the city's crackdown on school violence. None of the kindergartners has been suspended a second time, she said.

``The time they spend at home together is clearly a time for them to figure out why this is happening,'' Morris said.

Walter Gilliam, a child psychologist at Yale University's Child Study Center, said he doubts young children make the connection between an action in school and the ensuing suspension, which can last up to 10 days.

``Ten days is a lifetime to a 3-, 4- or 5-year-old,'' said Gilliam, who is working on a study of preschooler suspensions. ``They can't even fathom 10 days. It's like waiting for Christmas.

``I think it's a bad move, because it absolves the school from feeling that it's necessary to deal with that problem within the school building. You push it out to the community, you push it out to the family home, and that's where it started to begin with,'' Gilliam said.

Gilliam is studying suspensions in Connecticut, where 311 kindergartners were suspended in 1999-2000, about 92 percent of them out-of-school suspensions.

Gilliam said 79 percent of Connecticut's kindergarten suspensions went to boys, and about half involved allegations of physical violence, sexual harassment or verbal threats.

Nearly 52 percent of the suspensions went to black kindergartners, 35.2 percent to Hispanics and 12.1 percent to whites, he said.

``Those percentages do not match the demographics of Connecticut,'' Gilliam said, echoing criticism from the Rev. Jesse Jackson and others that zero tolerance policies and other disciplinary codes are disproportionately applied to minorities.

Among the Connecticut kindergartners, three-quarters of the suspensions went to students from the lowest socio-economic rung, Gilliam said.

That suggests to Peg Oliveira of Connecticut Voices for Children that low-income students are not getting high-quality preschool.

The pre-kindergarten experience probably isn't preparing them for what they need to do before they get to kindergarten,'' said Oliveira, whose child-advocacy group has researched the issue.

 

[Mermaid02]

Ten days might be too long- two or three might be more appropriate. A 2nd grader in my sons school was suspended for stealing the library's "mascot" (a hamster) stuffing him in his pocket and then trying to hide him in the garbage can in his classroom...... the hamster died. I find suspension totally appropriate for such an offense.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

A 10 day suspension is probably too much for most offenses...especially given that these are obviously (given their age) children who are not being taught right from wrong at home.

That said, if a child stabbed my child with a pencil, I'd want him removed from the classroom and put into counseling to ensure that this wouldn't happen again. If a child is violent at 5, what's he going to be like at 10 or 15? Scary thought.

 

[piratesmate]

I have to wonder if the child actually intended to "stab" the other child with the pencil as though it were a knife. Children get "horsing around" and it could have been an accident....still inappropriate, but not worthy of a suspension. A trip to the principal or school nurse for a lesson on the dangers of "fooling around" with sharp objects would seem more age appropriate. JMO

Deb

 

[browneyes]

Kids are in a hurry to grow up nowadays.

 

[Dream]

This is a tough one. If we were just talking about "child behavior" here, something far less than suspension would be needed. Unfortunately, with this age child acting violently, you are talking a parental problem. A ten day suspension is hitting the parents where it hurts...making them wake up hopefully, and see the need for change. In todays world, that "change" is often nothing more than spending time with your child. Parental guidance on a daily basis...listening...loving...being there....such simple things but sadly missing in so many busy families. If you institute this change at the kindergarten level, this child, thier family and society as a whole will stand a much better chance in the future. JMHO

 

[Buckalew]

Yeah, I think one student of any age stabbing another deserves suspension.

 

[Cindy B]

Philadelphia city schools have been bad for years..! I live near there, and this new CEO (yes, Philly city schools got privitized since they were broke!), has done some good things.

I have seen vicious/nasty horrible five year olds...


No matter what the age, if a kid does a death threat or threatens it is considered an offense, even if it was a "joke".

As for stabbing with pencil, my nephew got suspended for stabbing a teacher with with a compass point, and was not allowed to return

A friend of ours was a teacher in the Logan section. She was pushed down stairs, suffered injuries, verbally abused, and her car tires got slashed.


As for five year old being cabable, yes, It can happen.

 

[antnee]

One hit a pregnant teacher, another exposed himself and another stabbed a classmate with a pencil.

I can't believe this

 

[Cindy B]

Antnee-- I do completely...

Trust me, I have heard stories that would make your hair curl regarding Philadelphia city schools...

Some are not bad, some are ok, and some well, are just plain horrible... and when I hear these things I am not suprised.

 

[Buckalew]

Antnee,
I was kicked by a small child while cutting her hair when I was pregnant. She was just a mean child who needed some discipline. So, I beleive that one w/o a doubt.

I read about a child here who stabbed someone intentionally in K or 1st grade. He has grown a bit and now lives in a Juvenile Detention center. So, I beleive that one too.

 

[JulesMom]

I think you have to suspend them.

You have to think about the safety of the other children, too

 

[ripleysmom]

I think that the whole purpose of the suspension is to get the parents involved with the child to teach the child what is appropriate behavior.

I am sure that in-school discipline had been tried and failed. Now the parents have no choice but to take a hand in the rearing of their young.

 

[jfulcer]

Originally posted by piratesmate
I have to wonder if the child actually intended to "stab" the other child with the pencil as though it were a knife. Children get "horsing around" and it could have been an accident....still inappropriate, but not worthy of a suspension. A trip to the principal or school nurse for a lesson on the dangers of "fooling around" with sharp objects would seem more age appropriate. JMO

Deb

I'm sorry, if my kindergartner had been stabbed 'accidentally' or in intentionally, I would expect harsh punishment for that child. And I know, that a kindergartner, if confronted with a 'why did you stab that other child' would say it's an accident. Does a 4/5 year old understand an 'accident' enough to absolve him of blame?

I teach my child that when she misbehaves, she gets punished. She understands this. It should be no different in school.

And yes, I agree with some of the other posters. Parental involvement is the most important thing and a good chance at what is missing in their life.

 

[Talking Hands]

Do I believe this. Definately. I was kicked in the stomach by a kindergardener the day before Thanksgiving. And yes it hurt and I had a bruise for a week.
She was not suspended. We took care of it in class. She lost out on the fun stuff we were doing that day.
Suspend kindergardeners. Sometimes it is necessary to get the parents attention. Sometimes it is the only way to get them to come to the school to discuss the problem. 10 days is probably too long though. Just until the parent shows up at school is sufficient.

 

[Mskanga]

I see some 5 yr olds and younger coming into my job and I see the way the parents talk to them, the F word is the nicest thing you hear out of their mouths. Of course that's what the children see, that's what they learn and practice.
I see that way more too often than I would like to.
I feel horrible for the children because they don't know better, my oldest is in 4th grade now and she has a bunch in school who do not consider being a good kid "cool".
Then on the flip side you have unruly kids that they parents cannot discipline because that gets the parents in trouble with the law, it's considered child abuse. This country has a serious problem not knowing the difference between discipline and child abuse, and I don't mean people should be allowed to beat the children up either, but if they deserve a smack on the rear , that shouldn't be considered child abuse, if that's the case, then I guess I have been abused all my childhood and didn't know it.

 

[Cindy B]

You said it well Olga!


I have seen horrible things at a very young age... the "hand off" approach clearly does not seem to be working!


Parental involvement/support is very low in the Philadelphia city school district. Involvement is better in some schools than others but it is still low as as whole

 

[nativetxn]

I think it is sad that these kids are only 5 years old and have already been suspended. YIKES

Hopefully their extra time at home will help.

 

[Val]

I agree, the problem with these kids is probably the parents. Generally they have a lack of discipline OR their behavior underlies a bigger problem (abuse, a psychological disorder, possible ADHD, etc.). However, suspending them is NOT the answer. Usually this is a sentence to 10 days of unsupervised playtime. IF the parents were involved (assuming its a discipline problem) there would probably NOT be the behavior problem- and a phone call to the parent and a 1-2 day suspension upheld by the parent at home would work. However, many of these kids will just spend 10 days at home, often alone and unsupervised, where they get into more trouble. If the problem is a true psychological/physical problem, suspension is also not the answer- identification and treatment is more appropriate. Many of these kids who exhibit aggressive behaviors DO have emotional/behavioral problems. We have to go back and ask ourselves if they really belong in a general classroom, or if they should be offered a classroom designed around their needs, with the goal of returning them to general classes. Unfortunately, witht the lack of qualified special education teachers, this is unlikely. Its too bad, because at 5 they get suspension. In 10 years these will be the teenagers in major trouble with the law. In a sense, do we put the money into helping them now at 5, or end up paying for their long term incarceration at 15?

 

[disykat]

I sub in a kindergarten classroom where one of the children gets sent home if he has had two tries in the classroom and couldn't make it. He's had to go home early a few times, but the next day is a new beginning for him. His parents are now working closely with the school, doing whatever it takes to help their child. I'm guessing at some point (if he doesn't outgrow his behaviors) he'll end up with some sort of medical diagnosis, but K is a little young for that to have already happened since his difficulties have really only just been noticed.

The biggest problem I see in schools today is kids not being "ready to learn" when they get there. Many times parents have no clue (especially in Kindergarten) that their child is not ready. Sometimes at that age level you have to force the parent to come in and observe in order to even convince them that their child is having difficulty. Working with parents who understand there is a problem is not so bad. Suspension at that age probably is much more of an issue for the parent (missed work etc.) and forces them to face up to their child's behavior and help the school work with it.