Suggestion for 1st time dog owner? Breed?

[Luvchefmic]

I think you got some wonderful advice here. I watched a special last night on Animal Planet where the Humane Society busted Petland for where they get their dogs from (heartbreaking). We all know about puppymills and pets from pet stores but I got to thinking....if I was looking for a dog (and I'm not as we have 8 of our own) if I had decided to go with a breeder it would have to be someone that was not only highly recommended (I'm thinking asking a local Vet or the Humane Society or AKC or whomever) but it would have to be a breeder that was close enough to where I live so that I physically could go there, see the conditions, see the parents....make sense?

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I think you got some wonderful advice here. I watched a special last night on Animal Planet where the Humane Society busted Petland for where they get their dogs from (heartbreaking). We all know about puppymills and pets from pet stores but I got to thinking....if I was looking for a dog (and I'm not as we have 8 of our own) if I had decided to go with a breeder it would have to be someone that was not only highly recommended (I'm thinking asking a local Vet or the Humane Society or AKC or whomever) but it would have to be a breeder that was close enough to where I live so that I physically could go there, see the conditions, see the parents....make sense?

Just be aware that with a good breeder, the male may not always be on premises to visit.

A good breeder does a lot of research on which male is the best match for their female. Sometimes that means the male is on the other side of the country.

So, all you may get to see is the mother and a straw for the father. (Artificial insemination.) Another reason a well bred litter can run into huge bucks and a profit is very unlikely. An ethical breeder will use the best male for their female, not just the most local male.

So, don't judge a breeder if the male is not their dog and is not in their home. They may have used their male on their females or they may have introduced another male's lines into their breeding program, a male that may have had to have his semen shipped rather than a live breeding.

 

[princessmom29]

I think you got some wonderful advice here. I watched a special last night on Animal Planet where the Humane Society busted Petland for where they get their dogs from (heartbreaking). We all know about puppymills and pets from pet stores but I got to thinking....if I was looking for a dog (and I'm not as we have 8 of our own) if I had decided to go with a breeder it would have to be someone that was not only highly recommended (I'm thinking asking a local Vet or the Humane Society or AKC or whomever) but it would have to be a breeder that was close enough to where I live so that I physically could go there, see the conditions, see the parents....make sense?

This is the kind of breeder we got our dog from. She was AKC recommended and local. We actually went to the property, met the mom dogs and all the puppies, and got to spend time with them to choose the dog we felt was most right for us. As another PP said, the sire of the puppy we chose was not there for us to see, as he belonged to another breeder. We are waiting two weeks to pick her up, and have an open invite to come back any time to visit her.

 

[Planogirl]

I think you got some wonderful advice here. I watched a special last night on Animal Planet where the Humane Society busted Petland for where they get their dogs from (heartbreaking). We all know about puppymills and pets from pet stores but I got to thinking....if I was looking for a dog (and I'm not as we have 8 of our own) if I had decided to go with a breeder it would have to be someone that was not only highly recommended (I'm thinking asking a local Vet or the Humane Society or AKC or whomever) but it would have to be a breeder that was close enough to where I live so that I physically could go there, see the conditions, see the parents....make sense?

That's what my parents did when they were searching for Collie pups. I went along and it was fun to see all of the dogs. The facility that they chose ended up not having the male onsite and the dogs ran loose a great deal of the time throughout a good size property. They were happy, healthy dogs - you can tell.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Just be aware that with a good breeder, the male may not always be on premises to visit.

A good breeder does a lot of research on which male is the best match for their female. Sometimes that means the male is on the other side of the country.

So, all you may get to see is the mother and a straw for the father. (Artificial insemination.) Another reason a well bred litter can run into huge bucks and a profit is very unlikely. An ethical breeder will use the best male for their female, not just the most local male.

So, don't judge a breeder if the male is not their dog and is not in their home. They may have used their male on their females or they may have introduced another male's lines into their breeding program, a male that may have had to have his semen shipped rather than a live breeding.

Yes I understand that (and should have said as much in my post)...still to actually see the breeders operation, the Mom, etc would be the best route for me

This is the kind of breeder we got our dog from. She was AKC recommended and local. We actually went to the property, met the mom dogs and all the puppies, and got to spend time with them to choose the dog we felt was most right for us. As another PP said, the sire of the puppy we chose was not there for us to see, as he belonged to another breeder. We are waiting two weeks to pick her up, and have an open invite to come back any time to visit her.

Sounds like exactly what I was suggesting, congratulations to you !

 

[Luvchefmic]

That's what my parents did when they were searching for Collie pups. I went along and it was fun to see all of the dogs. The facility that they chose ended up not having the male onsite and the dogs ran loose a great deal of the time throughout a good size property. They were happy, healthy dogs - you can tell.

Perfect ! I was just surprised (okay I may have missed a post that said it) but I would be leery of a "far away, found on the internet breeder" I would do the "local to my home" type of breeder...& yes before anyone says it I KNOW people have had success with this, I am just saying for me...IMHO...and just another suggestion to the OP in their search

 

[scottmel]

Update

THis thread has been GREAT!!!! We have went thru the online quizes and studied little videos on line, etc. The finalists are:

1. Bichon Friese (did I spell that right?)
2. King Charles kind of losing favor a little b/c of heart issues and no one close by breeds them...and they tend to be more fragile. DD11 very gentle little girl but she would worry about him I know she would...
3.Smaller if possible Golden Retriever??? Gosh they are soooo gentle.

Here are Mom's (me!) issues.

the dog MUST like cats......According to what I read all three are gentle as listed above but anyone have negative experience bringing one of these 3 breeds into a house with a cat? No cat is here currently but we will be getting one (our beloved kitty passed away recently...)

Mom does not like LOTS of shedding and keeps a very very tidy household. Sort of museum like but a homey museum...Think picture perfect magazine spread. It is my hobby! Decorating, cleaning, etc.

And your pick would be????????????

 

[Aisling]

Mom does not like LOTS of shedding and keeps a very very tidy household. Sort of museum like but a homey museum...Think picture perfect magazine spread. It is my hobby! Decorating, cleaning, etc.

And your pick would be????????????

I voted King Charles Spaniel since I have one and he's great, BUT he sheds like crazy, so I guess that breed is not for you!

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Update

THis thread has been GREAT!!!! We have went thru the online quizes and studied little videos on line, etc. The finalists are:

1. Bichon Friese (did I spell that right?)
2. King Charles kind of losing favor a little b/c of heart issues and no one close by breeds them...and they tend to be more fragile. DD11 very gentle little girl but she would worry about him I know she would...
3.Smaller if possible Golden Retriever??? Gosh they are soooo gentle.

Here are Mom's (me!) issues.

the dog MUST like cats......According to what I read all three are gentle as listed above but anyone have negative experience bringing one of these 3 breeds into a house with a cat? No cat is here currently but we will be getting one (our beloved kitty passed away recently...)

Mom does not like LOTS of shedding and keeps a very very tidy household. Sort of museum like but a homey museum...Think picture perfect magazine spread. It is my hobby! Decorating, cleaning, etc.

And your pick would be????????????

Bichon or the aforementioned Havanese

Since you won't be able to guarantee a smaller Golden and boy, do they shed, I don't think that would be a good pick.

I love the Cav, and with a good breeder that has done cardiology screenings, you should be ok, but for what you listed above, I think the Bichon fits your needs the best.

Most of those online screenings do not include some of the rarer breeds, so some other low shed dogs like the Bichon are the American Water Spaniel, the Puli, Airedale, Basenji, Tibetian Terrier (one of my favorites, gorgeous coat that is low shed but does require lots of upkeep), Bedlington, PBGV and the Portuguese Water Dog. However, these breeds take a bit more work and experience and sometimes are not the best for first time owners. However, you might want to look at them just in case.

 

[Anne34]

I know you want a small dog, but we have a golden retriever and she's great! She's so sweet and she loves everyone. But if I was getting a small dog I would get a Corgi! They're so cute and sweet!

I was going to suggest a Corgi also. We have a Pembroke Welsh corgi and she is wonderful. Very easygoing, easy to train, great with kids....we love her. She was easier to train and is less active than the Beagle we had previously. Corgi's are great first dogs.

 

[scottmel]

What about Cavachon? Part Bichon, part Cavalier. I have done my homework trying to find a reputable breeder on this one but boy they are tough. HOW do you know it is NOT a puppy mill? the one says they foster them in the house, site visits welcome. the other is a large kennel of sorts...which does not look to promising...It is about a 4 hour drive away but I can't seem to find too much on this breed...to new or too risky?

 

[Mickey's Minion]

What about Cavachon? Part Bichon, part Cavalier. I have done my homework trying to find a reputable breeder on this one but boy they are tough. HOW do you know it is NOT a puppy mill? the one says they foster them in the house, site visits welcome. the other is a large kennel of sorts...which does not look to promising...It is about a 4 hour drive away but I can't seem to find too much on this breed...to new or too risky?

You can't find too much on it because a Cavachon is not a breed. It is mutt that is given a fancy name and bred solely for profit, thus there really are no reputable breeders.

Because it is a mutt, there are no standards. If somebody is guaranteeing you anything about temperament, coat or what it is going to look like, they are being dishonest with you.

You can get any combination of Cavalier or Bichon. You can get the shedding coat of the Cavalier with the looks of a Bichon. You can get the non-shed coat of the Bichon with the looks of a Cavalier. Or any one of the thousands of combinations in between. You can also get something that is not even close to either dog. Many times, you end up with a dog bigger than both parents, an effect of the genetics of mixing two different breeds. So, that is the reason you can't find anything on it. It is because you can't write anything about it because it is not a breed and you cannot make even the slightest prediction of how the puppies will look or will behave.

You are also introducing the health problems of two breeds, so forget about the hybrid vigor myth.

Since it is not a breed, it does not breed true like an actual breed does. Just like any mutt, no two dogs will resemble each other.

Additionally, no reputable Cavalier nor Bichon breeder would allow their carefully bred and researched dogs be used to create mutts.

Thus, the only way a designer dog breeder can obtain dogs without spay/neuter contracts is to buy one from a puppy mill or back yard breeder.

Consequently, they are breeding two poor specimens of both breeds together, which ups the potential greatly for problems with the puppies. You really are just buying the offspring of two puppy mill dogs.

Beware of any "registry" other than AKC (American Kennel Club), CKC (Canadian Kennel Club, NOT Continental Kennel Club) or UKC (United Kennel Club - Europe). There are a few more reputable registries but are rare in the US.

If you see puppies "registered" in any other registry but the above, these are mainly registries set up by puppy mills so that they can claim the dogs are registered and suck more money out of you. The registries are completely bogus and do not even require that the parents be registered, ie, they do not confirm parentage.

I would seriously think about what attracts you to either breed and just get one or the other. If you want the non-shedding factor, go with the Bichon, because there is no guarantee that the Cavachon will have the Bichon coat and be non shedding.

If you really must have a mixed breed dog, visit your local shelter or petfinder. You will save yourself lots and lots of money.

Sorry this sounds pretty harsh, but really, the reason it has been tough to find a good breeder is that reputable breeder and designer dogs is an oxymoron.

It is pretty difficult to be an ethical and responsible breeder and also create mutts. (There are a few out there that are catering to the pet demand that do all the health screenings, but they are one in every 100 - so very, very rare.)

 

[simba928]

What about Cavachon? Part Bichon, part Cavalier. I have done my homework trying to find a reputable breeder on this one but boy they are tough. HOW do you know it is NOT a puppy mill? the one says they foster them in the house, site visits welcome. the other is a large kennel of sorts...which does not look to promising...It is about a 4 hour drive away but I can't seem to find too much on this breed...to new or too risky?

Honestly, I wouldn't say that someone who breeds "cavachons" would be a reputable breeder. At this point, they are just mutts (same with all those doodles and morkies and all those mixes). There is no "breed standard", meaning that you really don't know what they are going to be like when they come out. A Bichon, you know an approximate size, color, etc. A Cavalier, you know an approximate size, color, etc. When you mix two breeds, you really don't know what the outcome is going to be. For example, I've seen beagle/lab mixes (blabs? leagles?) that were about 40 pounds, tall and long. I've seen beagle/lab mixes that were really short, stout, and maybe about 20 pounds. A good, reputable breeder would not mix their breeds. They breed for the dogs. They do it to enhance the quality of the breed (cutback on health conditions, try to produce a good look, etc.) If they mix breeds there is no improvement to either breed. I'm not saying not to get one of these mixes. I'm just saying be aware that, at this point, these dogs really are mixes. IMHO, I would never spend hundreds of dollars on a mix when I could get a rescue that is much less expensive and really needs a home. Not saying anything against people going to reputable breeds, that is just my personal opinion.

 

[scottmel]

Ah ha! now I get it. Makes perfect sense. Minnie when I read your note, I was puzzled /bc the first thing I thought of was "what about golden doodles? your mean their mutts b/c they are two different breeds?". Yes apparently so as the poster after you pointed out. Now I get it. To be honest I was a little leary of the cavachon b/c the price while really steep 3000 did nOT mention the dog wouldn't have the heart problem of a cavalier (no mention at all of heart) but did promise no shedding, etc. and I was puzzled thinking the same thing "What if it got the cavalier's coat?".

So to recap - if you breed 2 different dogs - call it what you want - but it is a mutt. A mutt will have the traits of it;s parents and could inherit health problems of both dogs. You aren't breeding for the love of the species at this point but for money. meaning if it was for the love of the species you would really try to find 2 cavaliers with no heart problems and breed them for "pure cavaliers" with no heart problems. A healthier dog if you will...

I fully understand now. But boy is this dog business confusing!! Minnie - I get the impression you have bred before? If so when I narrow my breeder down would you mind if I PM'ed you to look at their site for your opinion? [I went thru the AKC to find the King Charles and Bischon breeders but was stumped on Cavashons...duh!!!

 

[simba928]

So to recap - if you breed 2 different dogs - call it what you want - but it is a mutt. A mutt will have the traits of it;s parents and could inherit health problems of both dogs. You aren't breeding for the love of the species at this point but for money. meaning if it was for the love of the species you would really try to find 2 cavaliers with no heart problems and breed them for "pure cavaliers" with no heart problems. A healthier dog if you will...

Exactly! My mom and I were actually talking about this the other day and her argument was "But puggles and Yorkiepoos are very expensive!" My argumetn was "Yeah, but they are still mutts!" I then pointed out the fact that they are just coming up with cutesie names for mixed breeds and charging ridiculous prices for the name. I used my dogs as an example saying that Jake, my golden retriever/lab mix, could be a labra-golden. Lacey, my shepherd/collie/doberman mix, could be something along the lines of a Shep-Col-Man....call it what you want, it's still a mutt. (And I LOVE mixes so the term mutt is used here purely out of love ).

I must say, though, I applaud you for doing your research and attempting to fully understand what you are getting into rather than just going with the first cute little puppy you see. Too many people do that and that is part of the reason there are so many animals in shelter. I once had a young purebred Great Dane at the shelter where I work that was surrendered because he "got too big" (I thought the name "Great Dane" kind of implied it would be somewhat of a big dog, but whatever).

Whatever dog you do go with, though, early training and socialization is key! If you go with a puppy and want to make sure they are good with cats, make sure they go around cats. Take them to pet stores, parks, anywhere you can to make sure they are around all kinds of people (kids, senior citizens, people in wheelchairs, people of all different races). This may sound weird to you, but have them around people wearing hats, all kinds of clothes, people that walk or talk funny. Dogs are different from people. To them, it's not a person is a person is a person. Someone that wears baggy clothes is a different species from someone that wears tight clothes. Someone that maybe walks differently or moves in short, jerky movements is a different species from a person that walks or moves "normally" (for lack of better terms). I have a friend that had a dog that did not like people with baggy clothes. The dog was fine with people that wore regular baseball hats, but if it was one of those basebal hats with a flat front, the dog did not like it. The dog was great with everyone else, but had been socialized to think that people that dressed in that way were scary. I've seen undersocialized dogs (in fact, I have one that I rescued at a year old that was severely undersocialized) and it is not pretty. I've seen dogs that did not like African Americans. They were sweet, loving dogs normally, but anytime an African American walked past the fur would stick up, the lips would curl, and you would just hear this very low rumbling growl.

 

[ThanksForNoticingMe]

WE've had a Corgi, LOTS and lots of hair!! Shed's profusely. Very gooofy, fun loving dog in his younger years, but ours also got really aggressive as he got older. That's not typical of the breed though. Did I mention the shedding? double coat. Hair everywhere.

We currently have two Boston Terriers. Wonderful dogs. Great with kids and all people. A bath and nail clipping is the only grooming. Easy to train.

We've loved all our dogs through the years, but the Bostons are the greatest dogs we've ever had.

Good luck.

My childhood dog was a Boston Terrier....she was the best dog we EVER had. She had the best disposition! I got her when I was 8 and she had the patience of a saint

(I liked to dress her in my doll clothes and push her in a carriage) she never once growled or bit...she just loved any and all attention she got.

Boston Terriers...are over all awesome dogs!!! Pugs are also great and have the same sweet personality.

 

[ThanksForNoticingMe]

ooops sorry I dodn't realize you had narrowed it down...I would go for the King Charles or the Golden.

Have you thought about a Golden Doodle? It is a Golden mixed with poodle...it would help cut down on the shedding. Golden doodles also come in smaller sizes.

 

[onelilspark]

We're in the process of getting a dog now. Decided to go to a breeder because we're having such a hard time finding some place that will adopt to us...we live in a Townhome and therefore don't have a fenced yard. We're only looking at breeds that are good "apartment" dogs, and we're committed to walking, but that doesn't matter apparently.

I'm only mentioning this because I got my heart really set on a dog, then the rescue rejected us because of the yard issue. I can deal with it at 25, but I sure was sad that evening! I would hate to see an 11 year old girl get her heart broken because she's fallen in love with a particular dog. Proceed with caution (And good luck!)

 

[Minnie]

Bichon or the aforementioned Havanese

Since you won't be able to guarantee a smaller Golden and boy, do they shed, I don't think that would be a good pick.

Agreed

Our yellow lab was the sweetest dog ever but she was a very large dog (120 lbs) and shed like crazy - Goldens are very similar with longer hair Also don't count on finding a "smaller" Golden if you are looking at quality breeders.

 

[Bunnyfeather]

OP, of your 3 options I'd say a bichon is most likely to meet your needs. Goldens are gentle with humans, but they shed and I have met 2 who didn't like cats at ALL. Cavaliers shed and are not as hardy as bichons. Bichons are pretty easy to train, they don't shed, they are hardy for their size, tend to be fine with cats. But also, my cat is bigger than an adult bichon, so it's not quite as scary if the dog and cat don't get along super well.

I have a question about goldendoodles...what is the point there? There is already an easy to train, smart, sweet, gentle non-shedding dog of that size who does not have any serious breed health issues. It's a standard poodle. If you cross a standard poodle with ANOTHER standard poodle, you are guaranteed a standard poodle puppy who will not shed and be unlikely to have hip or elbow problems. What does a lab or golden bring to the table for a goldendoodle or labradoodle mix that the poodle didn't already have? Because both breeds have some hip/elbow issues and shed like mad. Plus, poodles are smarter than goldens.

So why don't the doodle people just get the original doodle, an actual poodle? I suspect that some people don't realize they have the option to just get a poodle and then cut its hair all one length and skip the poodle cut. I get asked all the time if my poodle is a doodle, because of course if he were a real poodle he would have a topknot and poofs at the ankles.