Stupid America...

[Charade]

Anyone else see the 20/20 show tonight?

Really eye opening and very sad.

 

[Free4Life11]

No, what was it about?

 

[Charade]

How bad the education system is and how powerful the unions are.

 

[Free4Life11]

Oh interesting, wish I had recorded it.

ETA - found a link with a story http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

 

[tiggersmom2]

My kids go to private schools. I don't care what might happen in my life.....I would give up all luxuries to send my kids to a school where they would get a superior education.

 

[lulubelle]

I was quite frankly shocked. Unions should be done away with. They were needed in the 60's to protect workers but now are not. It is sad, the kids pay the price....anyway we look at it, they do. The whole piece about the sex offenders and the "rubber room" truly disgusted me. I guess I will re-think supporting vouchers for choice of schools.

 

[shortbun]

As a member of a union, I can tell you that my union is still needed. There is good and bad in almost everything. Interesting how people who pooh pooh media information will embrace it when it supports their already formed belief system.

As far as public education goes. You get what you give. We are in a large urban district and because we are proactive, our child gets an excellent education. I volunteer in my son's school so he knows I am interested in his education and excels. While I am there, I help other children too. My husband and I tutor for reading and math as volunteers. We escort field trips. We help with and organize money makers so our library has funds for books as the school district has no money for this. We clean, paint and update the playground yearly with other parents and community volunteers. Other parents and family members are right there with us. Wwithout this kind of community support, children and schools fail. If you think you can sit back and expect America's teachers to do it all themselves, you are very, sadly wrong. Hold your school boards to high standards and then support the schools however and whenever you can.

 

[S. C.]

As a member of a union, I can tell you that my union is still needed. There is good and bad in almost everything.

ITA

 

[Galahad]

Interesting how people who pooh pooh media information will embrace it when it supports their already formed belief system.

Very true - equally true for all sides of most issues, IMO.

 

[chyam]

What burns me is this country has so much money to hand out to other countries instead of helping our people first! Especially education and for the elderly, I cringe everytime I see how many billions we just give away! Charity begins at home and IMO we should see to our people first, after all it's our people that put that money into the tax coifers!When it's gone who's going to help us! Education should be the number 1 priority then helping this nations poor and elderly, and with all the natural disasters we have endured this year.........NO and now the fires out west, our people need some help...........I say the heck with foreign aid for a little while how about some American aid!

 

[lillygator]

They were showing on the special how it wasn't about money....which it really isn't. Kansas built top notch state of the art schools with olympic sized pools, excellent computers etc...but their "grade" failed. Another school operated on less money and had flying colors with all "poor" children.

 

[Charade]

What burns me is this country has so much money to hand out to other countries instead of helping our people first! Especially education and for the elderly, I cringe everytime I see how many billions we just give away! Charity begins at home and IMO we should see to our people first, after all it's our people that put that money into the tax coifers!When it's gone who's going to help us! Education should be the number 1 priority then helping this nations poor and elderly, and with all the natural disasters we have endured this year.........NO and now the fires out west, our people need some help...........I say the heck with foreign aid for a little while how about some American aid!

They said (the show) that the amount of money put into public schools (even when adjusted for inflation) has doubled in the last 30 years. The average cost per student is $10,000 per year. Say a class has 20 students (low or high count, I don't know). That's $200,000 per class per year. That's a lot of money. They interviewed school board members that said that more money was the answer. Really? How much more? He asked would $15,000 per student be enough? $20,000? They said more. More than $20,000 per student? Yikes!!

They also cited the Belgium school system which allows vouchers and those kids do much better than ours. Proponents of vouchers say that competition will weed out the lousy schools and teachers.

As far as the unions go, he unfolded a flow chart that was about 4 feet long outlining the process to get a teacher fired. Acceptable? Not IMO.

 

[Charade]

As a member of a union, I can tell you that my union is still needed. There is good and bad in almost everything. Interesting how people who pooh pooh media information will embrace it when it supports their already formed belief system.

Maybe they are needed in some cases but you have to admit they have a stranglehold on the education system. Or can't you? Why is nearly impossible to fire a teacher? In NYC last year 2 teachers out of 80,000 (I think that was the number) were fired. That's a pretty low number.

And yes, when the media reports something I agree with, I'll embrace it. But I don't automatically poo poo things they report that I disagree with.

As far as public education goes. You get what you give. We are in a large urban district and because we are proactive, our child gets an excellent education. I volunteer in my son's school so he knows I am interested in his education and excels. While I am there, I help other children too. My husband and I tutor for reading and math as volunteers. We escort field trips. We help with and organize money makers so our library has funds for books as the school district has no money for this. We clean, paint and update the playground yearly with other parents and community volunteers. Other parents and family members are right there with us. Wwithout this kind of community support, children and schools fail. If you think you can sit back and expect America's teachers to do it all themselves, you are very, sadly wrong. Hold your school boards to high standards and then support the schools however and whenever you can.

That's great that you help out. Good for you.

But it's mostly the parents fault and the schoolboards fault a lot of kids are doing poorly when compared to other countries??

Where in the education equation do teachers get judged for their performance?

 

[poohandwendy]

I didn't see the show, but I have had it with my DHs union. (and so has he). We pay roughly 4k per year in dues and they do nothing but send us glossy pamphlets trying to bully us into voting for their candidates. My Dh is at the top of his field (because of his skill and hard work) and the union protects the losers who want to hunt all winter and then cry about not having steady work. Don't even get me started.

the ONLy good thing about them is the educational aspect. If my DH could make as much money working for a non-union contractor, he would walk away in a heartbeat.

 

[Disneyrsh]

They were showing on the special how it wasn't about money....which it really isn't. Kansas built top notch state of the art schools with olympic sized pools, excellent computers etc...but their "grade" failed. Another school operated on less money and had flying colors with all "poor" children.

Our elementary school here in georgia is running at twice capacity, hasn't been painted in ten years, has modular trailers completely covering what used to be the beautiful green playground, and we are #1 in the state and rank in the top 10% of elementary schools in the country.

It ain't about the pretty facilities, it's about the parents. My kindergartener's class was going to have their PE classes cancelled because of overcrowding and two parents with PE education stepped in and now volunteer for twice a week to do PE classes in the gym with the kids.

When we were told the modular buildings couldn't have computers because of security issues and expense, the technology parent group stepped in, raised the money for 30 new dell computers, and installed them, secured them, and connected them to the internet and the intranet, working every saturday morning for two months to get it done.

I volunteer in the library and help with the computers. EVERY PARENT HELPS, no matter how busy they are, because we recognize that our children are #1. The teachers can do what they are supposed to do, teach, because they've got parental involvement and backup with everything they need.

This, quite simply, is what makes a school successful. And we're successful in spite of the government, not because of it...

 

[TimeforMe]

I saw this show last night (fell asleep for the last 10 minutes). DH and I were discussing it: what exactly makes a good school good? Is it the teachers? the families? administrators? facilities? Of course, it's a combination of all these. Instead of using vouchers or closing down schools because they're "bad schools" (as they spoke of in the show), why not model the "good schools". Why not target the problems and work to correct those? I work in a very affluent school district. We have a lot of extremely bright and privileged kids. My school is brand new this year with state of the art everything. We do, however, have some really bad teachers; some abusive parents, etc. Kids will not succeed at the same level with different variables. period.

 

[chobie]

Maybe they are needed in some cases but you have to admit they have a stranglehold on the education system. Or can't you? Why is nearly impossible to fire a teacher? In NYC last year 2 teachers out of 80,000 (I think that was the number) were fired. That's a pretty low number.

And yes, when the media reports something I agree with, I'll embrace it. But I don't automatically poo poo things they report that I disagree with.



That's great that you help out. Good for you.

But it's mostly the parents fault and the schoolboards fault a lot of kids are doing poorly when compared to other countries??

Where in the education equation do teachers get judged for their performance?

In their evaluations. Also most states they have at least one, and most often two years to decide if a new teacher will work out. They can non-renew those contracts at anytime and for any reason. Unless you beleive that teachers only perform well for the first couple of years and then slack off, it does appear that the admistrators are being lazy about the evaluation process.

And yes, parents are responsible for being involved with their kids education and setting up an environment of respect for learning and education. Too many parents see the public schools as "free daycare" and its not until their kid has a problem that they care to get involved.

 

[Microcell]

With the EEOC and the ACLU I really think the time of unions have come and gone. I think teachers should be as protected as I am working at a Doctors office. I live in an at will state, so I better do a good job in order to keep mine. Republican ideals I know.

 

[JulieWent]

I have been a teacher since 1982. When I started teaching, salaries averaged $17,000 per year. They now average close to $40,000 per year, a much more effective "living wage" even adjusted for inflation. When I started teaching, virtually ALL of my classes contained at least 30 students. The really big classes would have 35. Now, the average class has 22 students in it. A really big class has 27. Do these things affect student performance? You bet your life they do! An intelligent young person starting out is much more likely to be attracted to our profession by an annual salary of $40K than by one of $20K. A middle-aged woman with a family to help support and with a lot of experience in the classroom is much more likely to stay in the field if the compensation is adequate and the working conditions are pleasant. You'd have to be a real dunce at math to not understand why having 20 students in a classroom is better than having 30 students. Every single day, I get to sit down and work with every single student in each of my classes. Incidentally, instead of teaching six classes like I did when I first started teaching in 1981, I now teach 3 -- we're on a block schedule which gives us more time with our students. So, I've gone from herding 180 students a day to teaching 60!
What do unions have to do with this? Well, I don't know about where YOU live or about where John Stossel lives, but where I live, I can tell you that change does not occur without impetus. NEA and AEA have kept constant pressure on the legislature of our state to change things for the better. Is our union powerful? Yes. Does it always use its power well? No. Right now, for instance, the education fund in our state has a one time surplus. AEA is lobbying to use the surplus for teacher pay raises. It doesn't make sense to use a one-time surplue for pay raises. But, would we be where we are today without the generally positive use of power that this organization has displayed in our state? No way. When our director makes a choice that is unwise, our state is full of independent, stubborn people who happily ignore him (as is happening right now with the pay raise issue).
So, when people like John Stossel whine about "those evil teachers and their unions," I just shake my head. I remember what it was like when I had 34 students crammed in a room that had been designed for 20. I remember what it was like to not have enough textbooks because politicians were too cheap to buy them for my students. I know that someone has to speak up for me and for my children. It doesn't sound like John Stossel will be doing that any time soon.

Julie
A Teacher

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

Accountability should be spread equally amongst teachers, parents, school
boards (both state and local), school administrations, and yes, even students.

So to place the blame of some districts failings (from some posts on this thread
one might think all public schools are a failing mess, which is absolutely just
plain wrong) strictly on the shoulders of teachers and teacher unions is just ignorant.

If you put our best public schools up against the best public schools in other
countries, I'll take the good old USA every time.