Student Loans

[Moliphino]

Only in death...unless your co-signer if you had/have one is still alive.

Reminds me of this Post Secret from about a week ago
https://www.facebook.com/2197795523...Rem2bsLrLr3xs6LC5N8hdRkoXaQmFnumngl/?sfnsn=mo

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Here's the thing - there are ways out from under all of those. They may have negative consequences, up to and including foreclosure and negative credit reporting, but for someone who cannot keep up there is a way out. There is no out for student loans.

You can walk away from a lot of debt, but you also lose the asset. How do you walk away from an education. The bank can’t repo an education.

 

[Colleen27]

You can walk away from a lot of debt, but you also lose the asset. How do you walk away from an education. The bank can’t repo an education.

Can't repo medical work either, but we allow the discharge of medical debt in bankruptcy as well as negotiated reduced-balance payment arrangements.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You can walk away from a lot of debt, but you also lose the asset. How do you walk away from an education. The bank can’t repo an education.

Like I said my sister had her scholarship money discharged in bankruptcy court. Would you not consider that part of education?

 

[LuvOrlando]

You can walk away from a lot of debt, but you also lose the asset. How do you walk away from an education. The bank can’t repo an education.

This is not a reasonable explanation for what amounts to indentured servitude without recourse.

You can't give back food or travel on credit cards either, nor fuel, medical care, medicine, fuel or any other service imaginable, there are countless things not returnable and yet credit cards and such don't have the same consequence.

Why is this special?

 

[barkley]

Like I said my sister had her scholarship money discharged in bankruptcy court. Would you not consider that part of education?

you mentioned this before and it confuses me. how was your sister's scholarship money considered a debt? my kid got many scholarships of different amounts from different sources but none were considered a debt to repay. can you please explain-i'm interested in understanding this concept.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

you mentioned this before and it confuses me. how was your sister's scholarship money considered a debt? my kid got many scholarships of different amounts from different sources but none were considered a debt to repay. can you please explain-i'm interested in understanding this concept.

Because the conditions of the scholarships were not fulfilled.

There are mainly two types of scholarships ones that are without conditions and ones that are. Something like "must maintain X amount of GPA" is one that has a condition to it or "must stay in this field of study" or "must graduate", etc, there are ones that do not. My sister-in-law got a scholarship for being a female in engineering that was a portion for each year. Had she switched her major she would have lost that particular scholarship and may have needed to repay it.

If you don't fulfill the conditions of the scholarship (if they have them attached) you may be required to actually pay back that money. It's also why you don't want to blindly accept ones. Just like student loans you need to know what you are agreeing to. Scholarships that have conditions on them are money given to you in agreement to meet whatever the qualifications are.

 

[barkley]

Because the conditions of the scholarships were not fulfilled.

There are mainly two types of scholarships ones that are without conditions and ones that are. Something like "must maintain X amount of GPA" is one that has a condition to it or "must stay in this field of study" or "must graduate", etc, there are ones that do not. My sister-in-law got a scholarship for being a female in engineering that was a portion for each year. Had she switched her major she would have lost that particular scholarship and may have needed to repay it.

If you don't fulfill the conditions of the scholarship (if they have them attached) you may be required to actually pay back that money. It's also why you don't want to blindly accept ones. Just like student loans you need to know what you are agreeing to. Scholarships that have conditions on them are money given to you in agreement to meet whatever the qualifications are.

got it-and i agree you need to be aware of any underlying conditions of acceptance. none of my kid's had conditional repayment clauses.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

This is not a reasonable explanation for what amounts to indentured servitude without recourse.

You can't give back food or travel on credit cards either, nor fuel, medical care, medicine, fuel or any other service imaginable, there are countless things not returnable and yet credit cards and such don't have the same consequence.

Why is this special?

Sure it is.

If you don’t like the terms of the loan walk away….. don’t get a very expensive worthless degree, and don’t expect the rest of the country to bail you out

 

[Robbie Cottam]

The better question is, if these debt are forgiven, when the IRS comes knocking under the Inflation reduction act, how many of the same people that are lobbying for loan forgiveness are going to be claiming it is unfair to call it income.

Uncle Sam is going to want his 26 percent of that “income”

 

[mom2rtk]

Because the conditions of the scholarships were not fulfilled.

There are mainly two types of scholarships ones that are without conditions and ones that are. Something like "must maintain X amount of GPA" is one that has a condition to it or "must stay in this field of study" or "must graduate", etc, there are ones that do not. My sister-in-law got a scholarship for being a female in engineering that was a portion for each year. Had she switched her major she would have lost that particular scholarship and may have needed to repay it.

If you don't fulfill the conditions of the scholarship (if they have them attached) you may be required to actually pay back that money. It's also why you don't want to blindly accept ones. Just like student loans you need to know what you are agreeing to. Scholarships that have conditions on them are money given to you in agreement to meet whatever the qualifications are.

Just curious, do you consider this school debt to be a result of predatory behavior?

And I'm still convused. Did your SIl change majors?

 

[QueenIsabella]

It's mind bogglingly prevalent.

How on earth can a child of immigrant parents who might have trouble reading American Legalese, intended to confuse everyone, or a child from a disadvantaged environment be expected to receive sound advice on how to navigate this system when many come from homes without checking accounts, much less the privilege of credit cards, familiarity with credit scores or a loans with monthly amounts due? Who would give advice for how best to manage this issue? Marginalized parents worrying about food? Overworked Guidance Counselors burned out from advocating for basic needs? The teachers who are struggling to pay their own bills? This is an honest question, where would these useful conversations be coming from because I never even learned how to balance a checkbook and not one soul ever talked to me about loans until I took finance & accounting classes in college. I had no loans because I went local but doors were also closed to me because I didn't know it was a thing to finance my own education.

The system is stacked, it is speculation based on a person or families anticipation of future earnings based on the overly broad assumption of what a degree holder will earn, without regard for the degree nor consideration of the geographical location.

My kids have me and DH and are not in this position but I did not have a me and many other kids out there are left to the wolves, it's not ok & it is set up to be predatory IMO

I know that every school system is different, but our HS has special offerings for first generation college-bound kids. I didn't look closely--my kids don't qualify--but it was either a class or social/after school group to help kids navigate the college scene, starting their freshman year. You know--how to apply, taking the SAT/ACTs, filling out the FAFSA, etc. I'm sure there was a heavy ESL component, to involve immigrant parents as much as possible.

Yeah, yeah, I know--I'm going to hear the wailing of "our school doesn't have that!", just like we hear for things like dual enrollment, early college, and AP classes. All I can say is, if you hear of ideas that you think could help students in your area, go to a school board meeting and advocate for change. Many ideas have been kicked around here, from community college to ROTC to using service hours to pay down student loans. There's always someone, somewhere who an idea won't work for. The perfect becomes the enemy of the good. Personally, I think the whole college industrial complex is broken, but I don't see any politician, anywhere, having the guts to take it on.

 

[sam_gordon]

Personally, I think the whole college industrial complex is broken, but I don't see any politician, anywhere, having the guts to take it on.

Like many things in this country, people (not just politicians) want to treat the symptoms instead of curing the disease.

 

[mjkacmom]

i think those advocating for it want all loans-across the board to be bundled into forgiveness. the issue i can't wrap my brain around is how the federal government can mandate private entity lenders to forgive indebtedness. i understand in theory the concept with loans held and backed by the federal government but those held by others? just not sure how that would work out short of the feds not only writing OFF their held loans but also having to write big checks for the others.

Well if folks think that private loans will every be forgiven they are clueless, I think most realize we are talking about the federal loans given in the students names. I don’t think an amount over $10,000 has been mentioned, and students are limited to $27,500. Most people I know with loans believe they system needs to be fixed with the interest, and public universities should cost much less than they do. The majority of borrowers don’t get in trouble by attending $80,000 a year private universities, but just by attending in state flagships that should be affordable to those that can’t afford the privates.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just curious, do you consider this school debt to be a result of predatory behavior?

And I'm still convused. Did your SIl change majors?

No my sister-in-law didn't change majors I was giving that as an example because she received a scholarship based on empowering women to seek STEM particularly engineering and within the qualifications was to graduate with an engineering degree.

My sister is the one who had the scholarship money discharged. As for predatory practices honestly don't know if you're in it for the conversation on that or just trying to trip me up in words. I'm not sure so I'll leave it at that. And TBH my husband has covid, I'm taking care of him while trying not to get it myself so my mind let yesterday's conversation go once I went to bed

 

[mom2rtk]

No my sister-in-law didn't change majors I was giving that as an example because she received a scholarship based on empowering women to seek STEM particularly engineering and within the qualifications was to graduate with an engineering degree.

My sister is the one who had the scholarship money discharged. As for predatory practices honestly don't know if you're in it for the conversation on that or just trying to trip me up in words. I'm not sure so I'll leave it at that. And TBH my husband has covid, I'm taking care of him while trying not to get it myself so my mind let yesterday's conversation go once I went to bed

Not sure why you think I'm trying to trip you up. I'm honestly curious since I've never heard of someone having to pay scholarship money back.

Hope your husband is feeling better soon. It sure is going around here. Has been for a while. Fingers crossed you stay healthy.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I know that every school system is different, but our HS has special offerings for first generation college-bound kids. I didn't look closely--my kids don't qualify--but it was either a class or social/after school group to help kids navigate the college scene, starting their freshman year. You know--how to apply, taking the SAT/ACTs, filling out the FAFSA, etc. I'm sure there was a heavy ESL component, to involve immigrant parents as much as possible.

Yeah, yeah, I know--I'm going to hear the wailing of "our school doesn't have that!", just like we hear for things like dual enrollment, early college, and AP classes. All I can say is, if you hear of ideas that you think could help students in your area, go to a school board meeting and advocate for change. Many ideas have been kicked around here, from community college to ROTC to using service hours to pay down student loans. There's always someone, somewhere who an idea won't work for. The perfect becomes the enemy of the good. Personally, I think the whole college industrial complex is broken, but I don't see any politician, anywhere, having the guts to take it on.

I was on the PTA board for years and years and fought for these kids as much as I could but it all fell on deaf ears because people are inherently egocentric and thought the 180K on Band uniforms was more valuable than social workers, in a district where around 40% of kids are at or below the poverty line. Let's not even talk about the cost of turf replacement. I complained that there was so social worker on staff, zero info on trades in the high school itself and when I tried to get a side by side College night Trades night going including union leaders for things like welding I was completely shut down by the district because "we already have Vo-tech" meanwhile noone revisits the topic after 8th grade. Odd because all the teachers are union sooo mkay.

I also fought as a sports mom thinking that sports teams could recruit poor kids onto otherwise expensive sports by making some very tough and pricey positions with good paths into scholarships, such as LAX and Hockey goalie positions, scholarship type spots where the team would fundraise and absorb the price of costly equipment/fees that keeps poor kids from participating because I saw some of my kids friends excluded, and that was stonewalled too. Why should an amazing athlete be limited to basketball because all you need is sneakers and a ball, not ok.

I personally paid for college applications and walked into a meeting at a local schools financial aid office with a single mom and her child whose family found FAFSA and the process insurmountable. I've given troubled kids a safe place and a bed at time and did my best but I am only one person and my reach is only so far.

I am not a do as I say not as I do person but I have very limited reach because it's just me and the people that happened into my path, as a society we can do better. I am not alone, there are lots of people doing their best but we are easy to shut down as a threat to status quo and that is what happens.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I was on the PTA board for years and years and fought for these kids as much as I could but it all fell on deaf ears because people are inherently egocentric and thought the 180K on Band uniforms was more valuable than social workers, in a district where around 40% of kids are at or below the poverty line. Let's not even talk about the cost of turf replacement. I complained that there was so social worker on staff, zero info on trades in the high school itself and when I tried to get a side by side College night Trades night going including union leaders for things like welding I was completely shut down by the district because "we already have Vo-tech" meanwhile noone revisits the topic after 8th grade. Odd because all the teachers are union sooo mkay.

I also fought as a sports mom thinking that sports teams could recruit poor kids onto otherwise expensive sports by making some very tough and pricey positions with good paths into scholarships, such as LAX and Hockey goalie positions, scholarship type spots where the team would fundraise and absorb the price of costly equipment/fees that keeps poor kids from participating because I saw some of my kids friends excluded, and that was stonewalled too. Why should an amazing athlete be limited to basketball because all you need is sneakers and a ball, not ok.

I personally paid for college applications and walked into a meeting at a local schools financial aid office with a single mom and her child whose family found FAFSA and the process insurmountable. I've given troubled kids a safe place and a bed at time and did my best but I am only one person and my reach is only so far.

I am not a do as I say not as I do person but I have very limited reach because it's just me and the people that happened into my path, as a society we can do better. I am not alone, there are lots of people doing their best but we are easy to shut down as a threat to status quo and that is what happens.

I do sympathize--it's a struggle. In our HS (same school!), the auditorium is unusable. Seriously, the orchestra has to go to the nearby middle school to put on performances. So, what does the school do? Build a second gym! Because, sports will always have the glory--the violinists can't compete.

I know you can't just tax the bejeebus out of people, and schools always have to set priorities. And if I was a sports mom, I'd probably be fine with it. But, I'm an orchestra mom.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I do sympathize--it's a struggle. In our HS (same school!), the auditorium is unusable. Seriously, the orchestra has to go to the nearby middle school to put on performances. So, what does the school do? Build a second gym! Because, sports will always have the glory--the violinists can't compete.

I know you can't just tax the bejeebus out of people, and schools always have to set priorities. And if I was a sports mom, I'd probably be fine with it. But, I'm an orchestra mom.

I was a sports mom and really, as a human mom recognizing that self sufficiency for poor kids outweighs glory days memories, I would have been ok with Bad News Bears uniforms if it meant that one marginalized kid got a social workers help, this is the spirit of public schools support. The activities are nice to haves, not must haves, especially if the activities endup exclusionary because some families can't absorb the extras, maybe this is because I grew up in the 70's post gas shortage recession apocalypse, not sure but it's likely.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not sure why you think I'm trying to trip you up. I'm honestly curious since I've never heard of someone having to pay scholarship money back.

Hope your husband is feeling better soon. It sure is going around here. Has been for a while. Fingers crossed you stay healthy.

I appreciate the well wishes