Student Loans

[mom2rtk]

There hasn't been any poster who has done that. If posters are assuming that even mentioning the word predatory means ALL loans are taken out by predatory practices then posters are simply making assumptions. To even say "some of the unscrupulous schools" is way misunderstanding and not a dang poster has extrapolated it out to mean all schools or all loans. Navient was my servicer for my Fed loans before it being moved to Aidvantage (although it was paid off by then) but I don't nor haven't said the loan itself was taken out under predatory practices, however Navient themselves did engage in that stuff as well as other things and it's entirely possible I could have been a recipient had I sought advice from them.

I figured we were giving posters more credit for understanding that people were not talking about the trillions in dollars of student loans, but to sideswipe that into shrugging it off like it's not really that big of an issue is pretty dang awful.

Here's the list of just the for profit schools updated a few days ago but it says over 155 for profit schools qualify either for settlement or forgiveness

Alta Colleges, Inc. (Westwood)​

• Westwood College

American Commercial Colleges, Inc.​

• American Commercial College

American National University​

• American National University

Ana Maria Piña Houde and Marc Houde​

• Anamarc College

Anthem Education Group (InternationalEducation Corporation)​

• Anthem College
• Anthem Institute

Apollo Group​

• University of Phoenix
• Western International University

ATI Enterprises​

• ATI Career Training Center
• ATI College
• ATI College of Health
• ATI Technical Training Center

B&H Education, Inc.​

• Marinello School of Beauty

Berkeley College (NY)​

• Berkeley College

Bridgepoint Education​

• Ashford University
• University of the Rockies

Capella Education Company (StrategicEducation, Inc.)​

• Capella University

Career Education Corporation​

• American InterContinental University
• Briarcliffe College
• Brooks College
• Brooks Institute
• Collins College
• Colorado Technical University
• Gibbs College
• Harrington College of Design
• International Academy of Design and Technology
• Katharine Gibbs School
• Le Cordon Bleu
• Le Cordon Bleu College of Culinary Arts
• Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts
• Lehigh Valley College
• McIntosh College
• Missouri College of Cosmetology North
• Pittsburgh Career Institute
• Sanford‐Brown College
• Sanford‐Brown Institute
• Brown College
• Brown Institute
• Washington Business School
• Allentown Business School
• Western School of Health and Business Careers
• Ultrasound Diagnostic Schools
• School of Computer Technology
• Al Collins Graphic Design School
• Orlando Culinary Academy
• Southern California School of Culinary Arts
• California Culinary Academy
• California School of Culinary Arts
• Pennsylvania Culinary Institute
• Cooking and Hospitality Institute of Chicago
• Scottsdale Culinary Institute
• Texas Culinary Academy
• Kitchen Academy
• Western Culinary Institute

Center for Employment Training​

• Center for Employment Training

Center for Excellence in Higher Education(CEHE)​

• California College San Diego
• CollegeAmerica
• Independence University
• Stevens‐Henager

Corinthian Colleges, Inc.​

• American Motorcycle Institute
• Ashmead College
• Blair College
• Bryman College
• Bryman Institutde
• CDI College
• Duff's Business Institute
• Eton Technical Institute
• Everest
• Everest University Online
• Everest College Phoenix
• Florida Metropolitan University
• Georgia Medical Institute
• Heald College
• Kee Business College
• Las Vegas College
• National Institute of Technology
• National School of Technology
• Olympia Career Training Instittue
• Olympia College
• Parks College
• Rochester Business Institute
• Sequoia College
• Tampa College
• Western Business College
• WyoTech

Computer Systems Institute​

• Computer Systems Institute

Court Reporting Institute, Inc.​

• Court Reporting Institute

Cynthia Becher​

• La' James College of Hairstyling
• La' James International College

David Pyle​

• American Career College
• American Career Institute

Delta Career Education Corporation​

• McCann School of Business & Technology
• Miami‐Jacobs Career College
• Miller Motte Business College
• Miller‐Motte College
• Miller‐Motte Technical College
• Tucson College

DeVry​

• American University of the Caribbean
• Carrington College
• Chamberlain University
• DeVry College of Technology
• Devry Institute of Technology
• DeVry University
• Keller Graduate School of Management
• Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine
• Ross University School of Medicine

EDMC/Dream Center​

• Argosy University
• The Art Institute
• Brown Mackie College
• Illinois Institute of Art
• Miami International University of Art & Design
• New England Institute of Art
• South University
• Western State University College of Law

Education Affiliates (JLL Partners)​

• All‐State Career School
• Fortis College
• Fortis Institute

Edudyne Systems Inc.​

• Career Point College

Empire Education Group​

• Empire Beauty School

Everglades College, Inc.​

• Everglades University
• Keiser University

FastTrain​

• FastTrain

Globe Education Network​

• Globe University
• Minnesota School of Business

Graham Holdings Company (Kaplan)​

• Bauder College
• Kaplan Career Institute
• Kaplan College
• Mount Washington College
• Purdue University Global

Grand Canyon Education, Inc.​

• Grand Canyon University

Infilaw Holding, LLC​

• Arizona Summit Law School
• Charlotte School of Law
• Florida Coastal School of Law

International Education Corporation​

• Florida Career College
• United Education Institute

ITT Educational Services Inc.​

• ITT Technical Institute

JTC Education, Inc.​

• Gwinnett College
• Medtech College
• Radians College

Laureate Education, Inc​

• Walden University

Leeds Equity Partners V, L.P.​

• Florida Technical College
• National University College
• NUC University

Liberty Partners​

• Concorde Career College
• Concorde Career Institute

Lincoln Educational Services Corporation​

• International Technical Institute
• Lincoln College of Technology
• Lincoln Technical Institute

Mark A. Gabis Trust​

• Daymar College

Mission Group Kansas, Inc.​

• Wright Business School
• Wright Career College

Premier Education Group L.P.​

• American College for Medical Careers
• Branford Hall Career Institute
• Hallmark Institute of Photography
• Hallmark University
• Harris School of Business
• Institute for Health Education
• Micropower Career Institute
• Suburban Technical School
• Salter College

Quad Partners LLC​

• Beckfield College
• Blue Cliff College
• Dorsey College

Remington University, Inc. (Remington College)​

• Remington College

Southern Technical Holdings, LLC​

• Southern Technical College

Star Career Academy​

• Star Career Academy

Sullivan and Cogliano Training Center, Inc.​

• Sullivan and Cogliano Training Centers

TCS Education System​

• Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Vatterott Educational Centers, Inc.​

• Court Reporting Institute of St Louis
• Vatterott College

Wilfred American Education Corp.​

• Robert Fiance Beauty Schools
• Robert Fiance Hair Design Institute
• Robert Fiance Institute of Florida
• Wilfred Academy
• Wilfred Academy of Beauty Culture
• Wilfred Academy of Hair & Beauty Culture

Willis Stein & Partners (ECA)​

• Brightwood Career Institute
• Brightwood College
• New England College of Business and Finance
• Virginia College

I used to drive by that Wright Career College all the time located here. Glad it's closed down now.

But people are advocating for forgiving part of pretty much everyone's loans, right? Or a large percentage, regardless of whether they were victims of predatory behavior or not, right?

Or are we only talking about forgiving loans from the institutions you listed?

 

[barkley]

But people are advocating for forgiving part of pretty much everyone's loans, right? Or a large percentage, regardless of whether they were victims of predatory behavior or not, right?

Or are we only talking about forgiving loans from the institutions you listed?

i think those advocating for it want all loans-across the board to be bundled into forgiveness. the issue i can't wrap my brain around is how the federal government can mandate private entity lenders to forgive indebtedness. i understand in theory the concept with loans held and backed by the federal government but those held by others? just not sure how that would work out short of the feds not only writing OFF their held loans but also having to write big checks for the others.

 

[mom2rtk]

i think those advocating for it want all loans-across the board to be bundled into forgiveness. the issue i can't wrap my brain around is how the federal government can mandate private entity lenders to forgive indebtedness. i understand in theory the concept with loans held and backed by the federal government but those held by others? just not sure how that would work out short of the feds not only writing OFF their held loans but also having to write big checks for the others.

Yes. People seem to want them all bundled together to be forgiven, and justifying it by quoting predatory practices by some.

As for the cost, it's just money, right? They'll print more?

 

[TippyThomas]

You have not missed much.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Sanchez]

Yes. People seem to want them all bundled together to be forgiven, and justifying it by quoting predatory practices by some.

As for the cost, it's just money, right? They'll print more?

I agree and don't really think there is too much thought going into this, but you gotta get the "likes." Apparently, the entire system is predatory - no distinction, no qualifications, and no limitations. And all student debt, private or government subsidized, should be erased (also, somehow cancer research is the equivalent of student debt):

I graduated with a ton of student debt through two masters degrees and a PhD and I've paid it all off and I would ABSOLUTELY support cancelling all student debt out there in a heartbeat. There is no 'I paid my dues' here. You paid into a system that is predatory. Did it suck? Yes. Should it be eliminated so other people don't have to go through it? Yes, right now.

My mother in law died of cancer. I don't go around waving my arms saying cancer research should be stopped because it didn't save her so why should improvements be made to save other people. Seriously, listen to yourselves.

Remember, the test is compassion. Forget math. And here, compassion doesn't mean that you are for creating a better system or believing that responsible government spending might just allow for other things/programs that help people. And you certainly aren't compassionate if you think that a quick fix really won't do anything to solve the problem. No way, you are only compassionate if you want to cancel all student debt now:

I had to pay for my education and I will glad pay for others to get out of the mire of debt a broken system has left them in. It's called compassion and wanting to leave the next generation in a better place.

And yes, more money will just appear! Because even if you are cold-hearted and bereft of compassion, it isn't going to cost you anything so there isn't any reason to care. And also, cancer.

People are acting like if student loan debt is cancelled you will have to personally write a check. Or that they have a breakdown to the cent as to where their taxes currently go. You don't. You won't even notice. But like I said earlier, I don't want everyone who has cancer to die because medicine couldn't help my mother-in-law. "I paid into a predatory system so everyone should have to!" is a hell of a stance to take.

 

[Skippy918]

I believe most student loans (at least all federal loans) already charge simple interest. The issue is that the monthly payment isn't usually enough to cover the interest, so it accumulates. The simple interest is charged only on the principle balance (not the accumulated interest), but because all of the interest isn't paid monthly, the principle doesn't decrease, so the balance only increases. Simple interest doesn't mean that in your example you would pay $500 total for the life of the loan, but rather $500/year until the principle goes below $10,000.
Income driven payments are a huge part of the problem here. If the loans were treated as car loans, mortgages, or most other loans, all interest plus a set percentage of the principle (2-3% minimum) would be the monthly payment, and the balance would gradually shrink. Eliminating the income driven repayment plans would solve this part of the problem, but that is not possible since so many would not be able to afford the payment. (Plus many choose this repayment option planning on getting the elusive forgiveness.)

It all goes back to where the resolution to the student loan crisis is in the prevention, not in the clean up afterward.

this makes sense. I’ve seen a few memes out there where the person’s starting loan balance is say 50k. They paid for 10 years and now their balance is 90k.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shelbyheinrich/student-loans-screenshots

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But people are advocating for forgiving part of pretty much everyone's loans, right? Or a large percentage, regardless of whether they were victims of predatory behavior or not, right?

Or are we only talking about forgiving loans from the institutions you listed?

I haven't seen anyone on this thread say that all loans that have been taken out to be forgiven irrespective of everything. If there is I apologize but I've always thought it's discussing loans that have certain conditions and the comments meant to openly discuss what realities there have been. I do think some people wistful wonder what our economy and everyday living would be like if people who carry the debt or carried it in the past didn't or had been given it back when that debt has become very burdensome. We do have a system were many things can be taken care of in bankruptcy court but not this one which seems a bit out of balance IMO.

As far as regardless whether they were victims I think one of the things would be combing through the loans, because someone may not truly think they were a victim but in the end they meet the definition of it according to whatever parameters you're looking for. Many of these lawsuits and judgements against colleges or services are done on behalf of many. I can assure you I don't have enough money to sue Navient myself and maybe I wouldn't even be aware I was misled or outright lied to until others came forward or an investigation found something.

The institutions I listed are the for profit ones and that's a done deal already, for those who qualify who have degrees from those colleges or loans from those colleges they are either forgiven or given a settlement. So no of course I'm not talking about just those institutions, Navient already has over a billion in settlements just from this year going through the system to name one. As more investigations are done more information is known and brought to light, some will be more for profit some will be servicers or loan companies themselves. I sincerely hope though there's more regulation into for profit because to me it's unconscionable to push for trade schools in lieu of 4 year ones when people don't really care how those trade schools can be. I'm sure we all know someone who went to DeVry, Phoenix, ITT Tech, etc it's not like those are obscure ones.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

the issue i can't wrap my brain around is how the federal government can mandate private entity lenders to forgive indebtedness.

My 2 loans left are private loans. Private industry is ripe for issues and we know that there are situations such as Navient (who's controversy is both on the private and federal level) and for profit schools but it is harder to regulate them other than punitive action towards deceiving acts. They serve a purpose, mine did and I've never felt I was owed some sort of relief on them even knowing how bad the principle to interest ratio is with at least one of them, in the industry but there would be less reliance on them if other things within the higher education were reformed and if we had even just a wee bit more oversight into the colleges. You really shouldn't have someone graduate with a degree that is worthless not because of the field of study (which many harp on about) but rather the college themselves.

The Federal government hasn't mandated student loan forgiveness on the basis of someone's loan being private or perceived burden but rather specific entities. Just because you are a private business does not mean you are unable to be untouched but it can mean that you are held to different rules because the scope is different. I don't think I've ever heard anything brought forth by any of the administrations thus far that have called for private loan forgiveness it, forgive my own ignorance but I would believe that would be out of the scope, but it doesn't mean that they are not able to be investigated and if qualifying found to be responsible for xyz like any other private business can be (well you know what I mean).

 

[mom2rtk]

I haven't seen anyone on this thread say that all loans that have been taken out to be forgiven irrespective of everything. If there is I apologize but I've always thought it's discussing loans that have certain conditions and the comments meant to openly discuss what realities there have been. I do think some people wistful wonder what our economy and everyday living would be like if people who carry the debt or carried it in the past didn't or had been given it back when that debt has become very burdensome. We do have a system were many things can be taken care of in bankruptcy court but not this one which seems a bit out of balance IMO.

As far as regardless whether they were victims I think one of the things would be combing through the loans, because someone may not truly think they were a victim but in the end they meet the definition of it according to whatever parameters you're looking for. Many of these lawsuits and judgements against colleges or services are done on behalf of many. I can assure you I don't have enough money to sue Navient myself and maybe I wouldn't even be aware I was misled or outright lied to until others came forward or an investigation found something.

The institutions I listed are the for profit ones and that's a done deal already, for those who qualify who have degrees from those colleges or loans from those colleges they are either forgiven or given a settlement. So no of course I'm not talking about just those institutions, Navient already has over a billion in settlements just from this year going through the system to name one. As more investigations are done more information is known and brought to light, some will be more for profit some will be servicers or loan companies themselves. I sincerely hope though there's more regulation into for profit because to me it's unconscionable to push for trade schools in lieu of 4 year ones when people don't really care how those trade schools can be. I'm sure we all know someone who went to DeVry, Phoenix, ITT Tech, etc it's not like those are obscure ones.

Outside of the issues with the for profit schools you listed, the only "deal" I've seen proposed is one that would forgive based solely on income (under 150K is the latest I saw).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Outside of the issues with the for profit schools you listed, the only "deal" I've seen proposed is one that would forgive based solely on income (under 150K is the latest I saw).

I guess I was talking about people in this thread, were you talking about what is being floated around by the government? (of which goodness I've lost track what supposed solution various people in politics have spouted).

 

[mom2rtk]

I guess I was talking about people in this thread, were you talking about what is being floated around by the government? (of which goodness I've lost track what supposed solution various people in politics have spouted).

The thread started with an open ended question about how the student loan situation was going to play out. I assume people were talking about recent reports that there might be some level of across the board loan forgiveness.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Funnily enough there's an article today that talks about a couple of different programs, the issues some of them have, and how they have been changed/expanded by the current administration:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/04/politics/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-programs/index.html

My next read

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The thread started with an open ended question about how the student loan situation was going to play out. I assume people were talking about recent reports that there might be some level of across the board loan forgiveness.

Right no I get that but the comments early on enough started diverting to personal experiences and then other issues, the the public forgiveness program, then predatory practices got brought up. The comment that I quoted from you was specifically talking about predatory practices. Unless I missed it (and to be fair I could have) the conversation around predatory practices was about openly discussing this happens and for those who have been affected by that forgiveness or settlement an answer as some have given as their opinion, I haven't thought that however meant that it would be unilaterally decided that everyone who took out a loan was prey and thus deserving of a blanket loan forgiveness or settlement because it wasn't stated that way (unless I missed it which I apologize if I have).

 

[Robbie Cottam]

So jumping down the rabbit hole, if we forgive student loans what other loans should be forgiven?

I in No way think any loans should be forgiven, however, I wanna see where this goes….

My home loan was way upside down in 2012 should that have been forgiven?

Any new car you drive off the lot is upside down, how about those?

DVC loans? Cause I mean those folk at DVC make it so easy to buy a time share, that has to be predatory, right? ( dipping with sarcasm)

So you the us tax payers forgive me DVC loans?

 

[BK2014]

So home loans, auto loans, DVC loans, and student loans - one of these things is not like the other. I get it, they all have the word "loan" in them, but do you really not understand how student loans are significantly different than the rest?

 

[LuvOrlando]

I think we have to be careful not to put the term "predatory" out there, citing examples of some of the unscrupulous for profit schools, but then extrapolating that out to mean all schools and lenders. There were some bad practices, and those should be dealt with specifically. But it doesn't mean we should generalize to all schools and all loans.

It's mind bogglingly prevalent.

How on earth can a child of immigrant parents who might have trouble reading American Legalese, intended to confuse everyone, or a child from a disadvantaged environment be expected to receive sound advice on how to navigate this system when many come from homes without checking accounts, much less the privilege of credit cards, familiarity with credit scores or a loans with monthly amounts due? Who would give advice for how best to manage this issue? Marginalized parents worrying about food? Overworked Guidance Counselors burned out from advocating for basic needs? The teachers who are struggling to pay their own bills? This is an honest question, where would these useful conversations be coming from because I never even learned how to balance a checkbook and not one soul ever talked to me about loans until I took finance & accounting classes in college. I had no loans because I went local but doors were also closed to me because I didn't know it was a thing to finance my own education.

The system is stacked, it is speculation based on a person or families anticipation of future earnings based on the overly broad assumption of what a degree holder will earn, without regard for the degree nor consideration of the geographical location.

My kids have me and DH and are not in this position but I did not have a me and many other kids out there are left to the wolves, it's not ok & it is set up to be predatory IMO

 

[LuvOrlando]

-

 

[Colleen27]

Apparently yesterday a group of lawmakers proposed an alternative to student loan forgiveness. It proposes capping the amount of interest one can accumulate. That means people would be able to break out the calculator and figure out exactly what they’ll be paying for 10 years. They can agree to the loan or decide its too much of a risk.
It won’t go anywhere of course because it still requires people to pay for what they agreed too and not be able to use the excuse that they’re a victim of some predator lender instead of their own ignorance.
Currently those in power don’t think that’s fair, so definitely won’t go anywhere.

The bigger barrier to that type of solution, or to a retroactive adjustment on interest that some here (myself included) think is a better solution, is in the implementation... basically, no solution that has to go through Congress is viable, full stop, because the odds of *anything* passing are vanishingly low so now the conversation is limited to things that can be carried out entirely by the executive branch.

I agree and don't really think there is too much thought going into this, but you gotta get the "likes." Apparently, the entire system is predatory - no distinction, no qualifications, and no limitations. And all student debt, private or government subsidized, should be erased (also, somehow cancer research is the equivalent of student debt):

I'm careful about using the word predatory because it does have a meaning that, IMO, implies deliberate malfeasance that I'm not convinced is baked into the system as a whole. However, the entire system does set borrowers up to fail on many levels, and it is expected to turn a profit for multiple layers of stakeholders including the federal government itself. In that sense, it does prey on students struggling to afford college - it offers them the money they need, but they're expect to pay it back with enough interest for the university, the loan servicer, and the federal government all to come out ahead. And when paired with other economic changes over the last two generations, from the cost of college to the interest rates charged to the interest rates paid on savings (an aside on that last one: my mother took student loans for her masters in the 70s, and made only the minimum payment on those loans because at the time her *savings account* had a higher interest rate than her loan!), it has created a Sisyphean task for young people who are just trying to get the education they need to hop off the part-time/low-wage treadmill.

 

[Colleen27]

So jumping down the rabbit hole, if we forgive student loans what other loans should be forgiven?

I in No way think any loans should be forgiven, however, I wanna see where this goes….

My home loan was way upside down in 2012 should that have been forgiven?

Any new car you drive off the lot is upside down, how about those?

DVC loans? Cause I mean those folk at DVC make it so easy to buy a time share, that has to be predatory, right? ( dipping with sarcasm)

So you the us tax payers forgive me DVC loans?

Here's the thing - there are ways out from under all of those. They may have negative consequences, up to and including foreclosure and negative credit reporting, but for someone who cannot keep up there is a way out. There is no out for student loans.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There is no out for student loans.

Only in death...unless your co-signer if you had/have one is still alive.