Stop being silly over PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN

[Tarken10]

Yoho, if I lived within 500 miles of DL you can bet that I'd be in line one last time to see what Walt built but that is more a testiment to Walt rather then the ride. Also, is todays PotC in DL still THE RIDE that Walt built ? I can't imagine things haven't change out in DL similar to the PC changes that took place years ago in WDW.

I have a hard time judging a ride by its line size. Lines are controlled by the ride operators. If a sizeable line forms, PotC opens up the 2nd que. They catch up, close a line. If line size mattered, a casual observer may conclude that SE needs to go. Of course, if that same person saw the que shortly after the park opened, they would probably have an entirely different opinion.

BTW, some asked & I didn't see you answer: Are you staying away from BB permenantly as a sign of protest or simply because it is being shutdown and you'll dine there when it reopens ?

 

[Sylvester McBean]

In it's defense, there have always been nods to the sponsers throughout the parks, even in 1955.

nods are one thing. a sign or a placard outside the attraction. when Fedex was sponsoring space mountain there was the the fedex box in the post-ride exit. those repetitive announcements in dinosaur chap my crack. you're supposed to be heading back in time, but are reminded over and over again that it's sponsored 'by a generous grant from mcdonald's'. bad theater, the immersion is ruined.

 

[Another Voice]

But those same people have not necessarily decided that the movie sucks, just that they don't think they're interested.

Yes, in a perfect world be would make the difference between “I’m not interested” and “that looks bad”. But sadly in reality, people don’t fine tune their opinions that much. Look around even on this board – how many people make blanket statements that Attraction X is old and boring and doesn’t mean anything to their five year old. In reality they are bored with the ride.

What will Disney gain by adding Sparrow? Sparrow will never do for MK what E:E will do for AK…So maybe, just maybe, Disney is doing this for the right reason.

It’s the same reason Disney is remaking the stinker from the 1960’s, The Shaggy Dog. No one is expecting that movie to break $200 million or to be the talk of next year’s Oscars either. So why should we care, right?

Because both are symptoms of Disney’s most serious problem – the desire to do the very least that will squeeze a few more bucks from you and claim it’s “magic”.

You get a couple of kids a little more excited about the ride, a few more turnstile clicks, you sell a few more Goths to buy Johny Depp make-up kits at the exit, pay a few plants on the Internet to spread “magic” – all that additional money for less than the monthly bottled water bill at the Team Disney H.Q.

Tweaks have always happened to rides, both during Walt’s time and after. I think they are good thing, a necessary thing – a required thing. But they have always been down with the intention of improving the show. That’s not the case here. There’s no attempt make ‘Pirates’ better, instead it’s cheap ratings stunt by inflicting a cameo appearance into the show. Instead of coherent storyline, we now get the ‘SuperStar Limo Pirates’ where the only point is to spot the hidden Depp.

Disney thinks small. If they really wanted to make ‘Pirates’ like Pirates – then have some guts and redo the entire ride. Show a little confidence and make a bold move. Make the attraction as thrilling and exciting and “modern” as the movie. If not, leave a show that’s worked for three generations – and continues to work today – leave it alone so you don’t cheapen it.*

Another Voice,…

Linzybroole, thank you for your compliments. I try as best I can.

The hardest thing to understand about entertainment is that it really isn’t “magic”. So much marketing has been spent convincing people that the brand name is so important that the general public has forgotten about the decades of hard work put in by thousands of people to make the parks the way they are today. There’s no law that says Disney will always be successful or that Disney will always prosper. What ever happens is still the result of what people do and the works they create.


* - better yet, leave the Disneyland attraction alone and make a whole new Pirates based attraction at the Magic Kingdom at WDW. Not only would that fix the "poor cousin" problem with Florida's version of the ride, it would start to fix the "uniqueness" problem Disney has with its two domestic parks as well. Instead of clones now we'd have sequels - two rides worth seeing instead of one.

 

[Sarangel]

Also, is todays PotC in DL still THE RIDE that Walt built ? I can't imagine things haven't change out in DL similar to the PC changes that took place years ago in WDW.

No, DL's Pirates suffered the same PC changes that WDW's Pirates got (about the same time, I believe). In fact, we rode Pirates on the 26th & they'd already removed the barefoot pirate.

The change is what it is (or will be) and I'll pass judgement on it when I see it.

Sarangel

 

[YoHo]

Sara, I'm disappointed you didn't let me know you were around

The barefoot pirate is gone as are the guys that are trying to lift the treasure up the waterfall (these aren't original either)

The Barefoot guy's been in and out all year though.

rumor has it that he will become the muttonchopped Joshamee Gibbs (as Kevin R. McNally)

 

[Tarken10]

Let's not forget that cheapqueals like the Shaggy Dog are not new to this decade. How many Herbie's were there ? Neither is ride cloning. If I recall my Disney history correctly, didn't the unwashed masses demand a PotC shortly after MK opened ? But that's a different debate.

Had the Pirates movie been released 15 years or so ago and the addition of Sparrow would had occurred a year or two later, I'd bet much of this discussion would have a more positive attitude. But instead we've had 10 years to develope strong mistrust for almost anything Disney does so instead of looking forward to a little tweaking of PotC we want to think the worst. We've traded our rose colored glasses for jaded ones. And to a large extent rightfully so.

AV, if Disney ever announces a total redo of PotC to the measure you describe in your last post, then someone will have to come up with a popcorn munching smilie because that will be one thread no one will want to miss.

 

[YoHo]

Let's not forget that cheapqueals like the Shaggy Dog are not new to this decade. How many Herbie's were there ? Neither is ride cloning. If I recall my Disney history correctly, didn't the unwashed masses demand a PotC shortly after MK opened ? But that's a different debate.

Had the Pirates movie been released 15 years or so ago and the addition of Sparrow would had occurred a year or two later, I'd bet much of this discussion would have a more positive attitude. But instead we've had 10 years to develope strong mistrust for almost anything Disney does so instead of looking forward to a little tweaking of PotC we want to think the worst. We've traded our rose colored glasses for jaded ones. And to a large extent rightfully so.

AV, if Disney ever announces a total redo of PotC to the measure you describe in your last post, then someone will have to come up with a popcorn munching smilie because that will be one thread no one will want to miss.

Just to be complete, I went to Blue Bayou, because
1: It's hands down the best Disney resturant ever and
2: It may not come back. Although our waiter seemed to think it unlikely. I tend to agree. All the LA times awards hanging on the front wall make it kinda hard to pull it out.



The threads would be interesting should Disney decide that, but If I had faith that they would do a good job, I'd be all for it.

Disney should not be in the habit of listening THAT closely to it's guests.

 

[Tarken10]

What would it take for you to get your faith back.

 

[YoHo]

A few more offices to be cleared out and DCA fixed.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

What would it take for you to get your faith back.

EE has given me a small portion of my faith back. a strong storyline with a beginning and end. good queue, good ride. strong details (I expect that at AK). but that's one attraction out of 4 parks.

 

[exDS vet]

There’s no attempt make ‘Pirates’ better, instead it’s cheap ratings stunt by inflicting a cameo appearance into the show. Instead of coherent storyline, we now get the ‘SuperStar Limo Pirates’ where the only point is to spot the hidden Depp.

This speaks to a serious problem taking place at Disney/ABC/et al. I watch ABC's "General Hospital" on a regular basis. There are probably more Disney DVD commercials on ABC daytime than anywhere else on TV. This makes sense becaus the target audience is moms. Right?

But after sharing my thoughts and reading others' similar opinions on the topic of the POTC additions being nothing more than a blatent attempt to promote the new Pirates movie, I saw something on General Hospital the other day that proved my point further about Disney. Something that I don't believe I have ever seen before. Follow me through this if you will;

A mother (Bobbie) and her daughter (Carly) are dealing with the death of one of Carly's friends, (Courtney). Carly is talking about how much she will miss Courtney, and says to Bobbie. "The Oscars are on ABC this Sunday. I keep expecting Courtney to call so she can come over and we can watch the show together and talk about what everyone's wearing." To which Bobbie replies, "I'll come over this Sunday to watch the Oscars with you if you'd like."

I did not quote this word-for-word, but it was a clear promotion for the Academy Awards airing on ABC. Hello? Has anyone seen this type of thing before. I would expect to see it on FOX, but not on ABC. Especially on a program that has been on the air for over forty years.

The episode aired last Thursday (3/2/06) just a few days before the Oscars. Anyone else catch it or see something similar?

 

[All Aboard]

* - better yet, leave the Disneyland attraction alone and make a whole new Pirates based attraction at the Magic Kingdom at WDW. Not only would that fix the "poor cousin" problem with Florida's version of the ride, it would start to fix the "uniqueness" problem Disney has with its two domestic parks as well. Instead of clones now we'd have sequels - two rides worth seeing instead of one.

Mr. Voice, had I read those words from you a year ago, I'd suggest you'd toppled over the edge. But now, after having experienced the original several times, I completely agree with you. WDW's version really suffers when you experience the two in close succession.

This is a great idea, a complete overhaul of the WDW attraction that is patterned entirely after the film, while leaving the original as is. You know, you should go to work for Disney.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

exDS vet,
This is a Soap Opera we are talking about, not some high art form. Frankly, I'm surprised there is not more of this in daytime TV. What about all of the soft news stories that happen to cross promote whatever show is on. There is a story on 60 minutes, and what do you know, there is a book that is comming out on the same subject written by the same guy that was the focus of the story. That upsets me, not a lame shill for a different show. Also, aren't they called Soap Operas becuase they were "sponsored" by soap companies originally? And in the early years of TV, didn't "sponsors" have some say in what the script said? And didn't people like Mike Wallace do ads for smokes and say things like "I smoke Chestefields because it is a good smoke" or things like that. A shameless shill is nothing new and hardly shocking and what does the age of the show have to do with it. Like I said, one of the oldest shows on TV and by some one of the most respected, 60 Minutes does it, only they are a little more subtle. Did you ever see a star on any of the talk shows that were not selling something? Again, the point of the company is to make money, not raise the art form or do someting for arts sake. Hey, they own the network, they write the checks so they can do what they want. When you become a billionaire and own a station you can put on whatever you want. Ted Turner did it, Rupert Murdoch does it. NBD

 

[2Xited4Disney]

"The Oscars are on ABC this Sunday. I keep expecting Courtney to call so she can come over and we can watch the show together and talk about what everyone's wearing." To which Bobbie replies, "I'll come over this Sunday to watch the Oscars with you if you'd like."

First of all let me say... THIS IS HILARIOUS... what a SHAMELESS plug it made me fully laugh out loud , like do the writers actually think this sounds natural. Your best friend just died and you are thinking about the OSCARS!!! come on... between classes I like to watch some Soaps to laugh hysterically


A while back on the "Daily Show with Jon Stewart" they showed a clip of some soap opera where two characters where watching TV. One says to the other "Hey isn't this the new Rolling Stones music video" "Oh yeah it is" then they proceded to show the video on the tv.... It was literally the worst part of Television I have ever seen. Just thinking about it still makes me laugh



I am not sure if it was the Rolling Stones or not... but it was DEFFINATELY a band whose image clashes with soap opera's

 

[exDS vet]

I had also heard last week that ABC refused to air a new Gillette commercial because it supposedly violated the network's policy of not allowing "subliminal" advertising. Now I'm not saying that the stunt on GH is subliminal, but it's pretty close. It had no relevence to the storyline, therefore it just didn't belong there. In my opinion, it was just in bad taste.

Disney places itself in many ABC shows, and since they own the network, I guess they have the right to do so. Whenever they send a family on "Extreme Makeover Home Edition" to WDW for vacation, I have no problem. If a sitcom family goes to a Disney Park for vacation like the Conners did when "Roseanne" went to WDW, I had no problem. Disney has the right to practice synergy. I just wish they would do it more wisely. Otherwise, before you know it, we'll see the "Desperate Housewives" replacing the princesses in the parks.

On second thought, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all.

 

[MikeB63]

I've just read all five pages of this thread just to make sure what I'm about to say wasn't already stated. It has been alluded to though. My problem with changing attractions such as the Tiki Birds and POC is that they were/are original Disney attractions that Walt himself was involved with. With all the resources available to Disney, why do they need to change the original attractions that so many cherish? This is especially true in WDW where they have plenty of land to expand. I also agree that with all of the remakes and "sequels", Disney is no longer the creative leader they once were.

 

[sandi2005]

this is sandi's daughter, nicole...
im not that upset about the changes to the ride, i love the ride no matter what, but im kinda upset because im not going to be able to ride it because in June they will be working on it. Change is great, but not when im down there wanting to ride it.

 

[jekajekalynn]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I say "here here" to changes! Also, I LOVE that they are putting a Capt Jack Sparrow figure in there. Ladies, back me up on this one . I mean after all as Ol' Walt said himself , "Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world. "

 

[DisInsider]

I agree with the person who said let them use their resources to expand. WDW has plenty of room for expansion. DCA has plenty of room for improvement. I think something that isn't being discussed is the need for more new and original attractions. EE is a nice start but the parks arent doing much to WOW! the guests. Isn't EE the first major addition to a park since DCA opened in California?

The originality is starting to be replaced by duplicates of the rides or unnecessary upgrades. Was the Stitch ride a great replacement for AE? Soarin' is a remake too. At least they could have filmed a new movie. Imagination at Epcot, Buzz at DL, ToT at DCA, etc. Disneyland hasn't had a truly unique new attraction added in over ten years (Indiana Jones).

I believe the guests are beginning to settle for and accept cheap updates like what is being done to Pirates, or what was done to WDW's Tiki Room. They are settling in the same way that they do when they buy those lame DVD sequels, or make a remake of The Shaggy Dog the #2 family movie in the country. Let's face it. Disney's most creative outlet in this decade is it's Marketing department. Those people have job security. I don't think they will ever suffer the fate of the animation department.

 

[karrit2000]

"Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world. "

Remember, Walt said "Grow" not "be redone". The Disney Corporate People need to Listen to that. One of my niece's favorites rides when she was little was Mr. Toad. She had no Idea who Mr.Toad was but she kept going on it hoping that maybe they wouldn't end up in "h e double twosticks" at the end. Now we have Winnie the Pooh which I won't ride on principle.

But I am looking forward to the update of POTC. Maybe they'll change the PC scenes back to their original form. They just don't have the same impact as the original.