Steps in relationships, when to move to another level?

[Turn the Page]

I would assume that they loved each other at some point yes. Granted I have never met her... However, I have seen some of her work. She sends hateful texts, I have listened to her screaming rants she leaves on his voicemail. She really is a ranting raving lunatic sometimes. She and their oldest daughter (who is now living with him) go back and forth with the fighting... and yes this is how the two of them keep getting into it. She plays this card with her daughter (yes I have read the texts myself), about how you are such a spoiled brat, you are a lying piece of blah blah... then later "I love you so much, why do you treat me this way, why wont you come back to live with me"? It has gotten to the point where she (his ex, to their daughter) was like "you are dead to me".... but eventually went back to the, "I love you don't ignore me".

Then he steps in, then they go at it with each other... it is exhausting. This has been going on the entire time I have known him.

She shouldn't be leaving him screaming voice mails. However, you have absolutely no idea what happened in the past to lead her to this. Is it possible she is just a lunatic? Sure. But it is much more likely that he has a hand in this too. Is he actually holding up his end of the parenting deal or is he just living his life and not doing much of anything with or for the kids? Many people out there want kids for the happy happy fun time photo op moments but don't want any of the actual work that comes with it. My stepdaughters mother is like that. She doesn't want to be a mother, she wants to be a friend who sees her kid when it is fun and as soon as she has to put any effort in she wants to send her right back for me to deal with. It is absolutely infuriating for me and if there is anything like that going on with your boyfriend and his ex then I know exactly what drove his ex to sound like a raving lunatic and you should run for the hills.

 

[Bluestars]

I would assume that they loved each other at some point yes. Granted I have never met her... However, I have seen some of her work. She sends hateful texts, I have listened to her screaming rants she leaves on his voicemail. She really is a ranting raving lunatic sometimes. She and their oldest daughter (who is now living with him) go back and forth with the fighting... and yes this is how the two of them keep getting into it. She plays this card with her daughter (yes I have read the texts myself), about how you are such a spoiled brat, you are a lying piece of blah blah... then later "I love you so much, why do you treat me this way, why wont you come back to live with me"? It has gotten to the point where she (his ex, to their daughter) was like "you are dead to me".... but eventually went back to the, "I love you don't ignore me".

Then he steps in, then they go at it with each other... it is exhausting. This has been going on the entire time I have known him.

That sounds like too much drama to me.

Although he shouldn't have to pay attention to you every minute when you are out with others, he soundn't ignore you either. It's hard to tell what is really going on because you do seem extremely needy. I dated this guy who was very flirty with other girls. We went out with some friends and he actually rested his hand on my friend's thigh when he talked to her. I found his flirty behavior uncomfortable, so I ended the relationship. You might be happier with a man who does pay more attention to you and makes an effort to include you. When I was dating, I would never ignore my date when around my friends. I would always make an effort to include him.

With your situation, it could be your neediness or it could be that he is ignoring you and just pays attention to you when nothing else is going on. The fact that he refuses to go out with your friends is a HUGE red flag and should tell you that he has little respect for you. Even if he doesn't like your friends, he could suck it up to make you happy. Since he doesn't think you are worth the effort, you should really think about the type of man you are dating and that you really deserve better. His lack of effort does not mean there is something wrong with you, it means there is something wrong with him. It doesn't mean you aren't worth the effort, it just means he might be a jerk who only cares about himself and his needs.

I think it's very rude for someone to constantly text another person when they are on a date. I can see sending a short text or two to someone, but constantly texting when it's not an emergency is downright rude.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I feel like when exes fight and entertain so much drama with one another they still have unfinished business.

 

[sk!mom]

He never really said exactly why he got divorced... just a lot of stuff about how his ex-wife was and still is a jealous psycho. He said she was always accusing him of stuff, and well yea. When I start feeling jealous, I think to myself, I do not want to remind him of his ex.

Given the issues that you have already had with him (Tinder app, etc...) has it occurred to you that she wasn't a "jealous psycho" but rather the wife of a cheater?

I will admit that I have been acting kind of childish and silly these past few months. I guess I have worked very hard at "showing off" on social media, getting approval from friends, family, former students etc... I guess I we have become that obnoxious couple on there that many people find annoying with all this lovey stuff back and forth for everybody to see. My friends, I dare say some of them have a worse track record with relationships than I do... yes it is possible. It started off like I was the one pushing to define things and wanting all this, but he has fueled the fire and it seems now that he is adding to it with the marriage comments and stuff like that. He even posted some "joke" on Facebook about the your future marriage and it being me. Of course I had to "like it" and post hearts, and some I love you stuff to go along.

I DO love him, he has been good to me. He is funny, charming and sweet to me. I know he has flaws...pretty big ones probably. I know I am very damaged and flawed too. I know I am showing the maturity level of a teenager, which is not a good thing. I am level-headed about everything else BUT relationships. They make me crazy.

If you recognize this about yourself, then why won't you seek counseling to change yourself?

Honestly, I never have faith in the relationships that I see all over FB all of the time. When adults constantly need to profess their love, I suspect it's because they are trying to convince themselves.

 

[JanBlessed]

The next steps you need to take in this relationship is a step back.

Agreed. Hope it works out & Best of Luck!

 

[Skywalker]

I dated this guy who was very flirty with other girls. We went out with some friends and he actually rested his hand on my friend's thigh when he talked to her. I found his flirty behavior uncomfortable, so I ended the relationship.

This is one of the most refreshingly mature things I have read in a long time! Good for you for ending the relationship rather than behaving like my friend who thought she could "change" his flirty behaviour by begging, pleading, yelling and crying. If only everyone had an attitude like yours we could all be spared so much dang drama lol.

 

[clutter]

Given the issues that you have already had with him (Tinder app, etc...) has it occurred to you that she wasn't a "jealous psycho" but rather the wife of a cheater?



If you recognize this about yourself, then why won't you seek counseling to change yourself?

Honestly, I never have faith in the relationships that I see all over FB all of the time. When adults constantly need to profess their love, I suspect it's because they are trying to convince themselves.

Or drive their psycho-jealous ex crazy.

Lose all but one of the pictures in the cubbie. Slow down the relationship and get a therapist to help you navigate it. Before you find yourself in a marriage like your last one.

 

[Nancyg56]

I would assume that they loved each other at some point yes. Granted I have never met her... However, I have seen some of her work. She sends hateful texts, I have listened to her screaming rants she leaves on his voicemail. She really is a ranting raving lunatic sometimes. She and their oldest daughter (who is now living with him) go back and forth with the fighting... and yes this is how the two of them keep getting into it. She plays this card with her daughter (yes I have read the texts myself), about how you are such a spoiled brat, you are a lying piece of blah blah... then later "I love you so much, why do you treat me this way, why wont you come back to live with me"? It has gotten to the point where she (his ex, to their daughter) was like "you are dead to me".... but eventually went back to the, "I love you don't ignore me".

Then he steps in, then they go at it with each other... it is exhausting. This has been going on the entire time I have known him.

WOW! I think I told you upthread, I was treated to one interaction a guy I had just started seeing had with his ex. That was all it took for me, no way was I going to be a part of that mess. Not as a participant, not as an observer, and not as an instigator. I never saw that guy again.

 

[smadath]

The Final step of closeness is pooping with bathroom door open

I don't know whether to be happy or sad that DH and I will never attain the Final Step of Closeness.

At least the pressure's off, 'cause it ain't gonna happen!

 

[leebee]

I guess I would be one of those sad pathetic women over a certain age that is all alone. I'll take it. I have weathered an incredibly difficult life and I have come out stronger and I do not need to settle for anyone that is not right for me. I would much rather be alone than be with someone who is not good for me because I don't want to be alone. I always feel bad for the women that cannot be alone. I'm not about to settle. I think I've probably become too independent, because I am ok on my own.

Can I give you a great big hug? What an amazing woman you are, to recognize that your struggles have made you stronger, made you who you are, and that you are not going to compromise your self!

I have nothing to add to this thread that has not already been said by other posters, and already been ignored by Kathryn.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't know whether to be happy or sad that DH and I will never attain the Final Step of Closeness.

At least the pressure's off, 'cause it ain't gonna happen!

Ya, that was never going to be a relationship goal in the G household either. Not even on the list of Steps.

 

[MataHari22]

Can I give you a great big hug? What an amazing woman you are, to recognize that your struggles have made you stronger, made you who you are, and that you are not going to compromise your self!

I have nothing to add to this thread that has not already been said by other posters, and already been ignored by Kathryn.

Thank you.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

OK... In regards to the no therapy stuff yet. I kind of thought if I could gather all the information, I could figure this stuff out myself. Honestly, when I did do therapy I thought it was a joke. Probably it was extreme arrogance on my part, but I thought I was smarter than the therapist. It was just all about goal setting, and putting timelines on stuff I wanted to do. I did feel more motivated to actually get that stuff done because I did not want to go back the next time and say "I didn't do my homework" kind of thing. That was about dealing with the bad marriage.

 

[RitaE]

She really is a ranting raving lunatic sometimes.

So he has a history of crazy girlfriends? Never would have guessed that.

 

[scrapquitler]

When he starts talking to other people, instead of sitting there and acting like a dope, waiting for him to talk to you and pay attention to you, Participate in the conversation with him and the people he is talking to, or talk to someone else who is there. When my husband and I go out, our friends joke with us that we don't even sit near each other or pay any attention to each other -- we are both talking to lots of other people, but at the same time and separately. We tell our friends, hey, we can talk to each other at home. Just because you are out with him doesn't mean that he is the only person you can talk to an interact with.

Secondly: You are dating him, you are not chained to one another. Why do you think you have to ask him to go out with your own friends? You are dating him, but you can still have your own life and your own friends. And I would NOT tolerate a man telling me that I couldn't go out with my friends because he didn't like one of them. Are you a forty something year old woman or a five year old??

 

[Nancyg56]

OK... In regards to the no therapy stuff yet. I kind of thought if I could gather all the information, I could figure this stuff out myself. Honestly, when I did do therapy I thought it was a joke. Probably it was extreme arrogance on my part, but I thought I was smarter than the therapist. It was just all about goal setting, and putting timelines on stuff I wanted to do. I did feel more motivated to actually get that stuff done because I did not want to go back the next time and say "I didn't do my homework" kind of thing. That was about dealing with the bad marriage.

Okay, you cannot do this on your own, and the fact that you are in this relationship is proof.

You are NOT smarter than the therapist. You looked for excuses not to go because it is hard work.

I do not always share my past here. I have been married 25 years next June. I was with my husband 12 years before we married, but not always in a relationship. Neither one of us had good tools for a strong healthy marriage, so after we married, and all the kids (mine from a previous marriage, but his in his heart) graduated from school, we were in trouble. If you googled Marriage from hell our picture popped up. A lot of the issues you talk about I could parrot. Not hte nasty controlling stuff, but Buddy was involved in a lot of organizations, went out a lot and had a bazillion friends. Not me. I was home raising three little kids, and even though I thought I was busy, I really was become ingrained isolated. Buddy was a huge personality, not me. So one day, I went to a counselor. I thought he would say "oh you poor thing....dump that jerk and move one" which is kind of wha ta good Catholic girl wants to hear if she is lookign for a way out. Well.....no. He said to drag him in, and after one session, which I figure the poor man needed drugs to get over, he said he could not help us as a couple. WHAT????? He did say that before we could build a good strong marriage, we need to build ourselves. So we did. And it sucked a lot. It was hard, it was horrific, and it was rewarding. We had homework. IN the beginning he had to help me with the most simple task...doing something for myself. I had no idea how to go about that, I had completely lost myself. I dont knwo Buddy's homework, we never pried what the other was working on. I did the unthinkable, and moved back myself and my 4 cats (thats when Buddy and I bothknew this was really serious, the kitties came with me) to my Mom's, and we started to date after a while.

Kathryn, Buddy and I are Catholic. We are not poster children for Practicing Catholics, but we do keep a lot of the sacraments, and marriage for us was forever. Had we divorced, we never could have remarried. So we tried at first for the wrong reasons, but after therapy, both individual and then marraige, we are one heck of a strong couple. Because we are strong individuals. You see, the very traits that Buddy admired in me as an individual he was threatened by as a husband. And the qualities and personality experience had that I was so attracted to when we met really threatened myself confidence later on. WE both needed to learn about how to be healthy individuals on our own before we could even be a healthy marriage.

So, if you were my daughter, I would beg you to go to a therapist. Invest in yourself. Stop thinking you are smarter than the therapist, you are not. You are lazy and afraid. Dump the new guy, he is a placeholder, and you know it. Learn what my husband and I learned, how to be strong and confident on your own as an individual. Until then you will never be a part of a strong commited couple, you will never be in a relationship that is healthy.

I am not even going to try to tell you that we go through life seeing eye to eye on all things, but we do go through life trusting one another, placing the other' needs and wants above our own, and knowing that no matter what happens, we are in it together, I never worry that any other woman will take my husbands eye, he is committed to me. He never thinks I would stray, my heart is his. This is finally the relationship we both wanted, but that never woudl have blossomed if we were not willing to put the effort into therapy.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

I have seen 2 different therapists. The first one was like a one time thing because work MADE me go. After I had already put in my notice that I would not be returning the next school year, I made some comments and jokes that some people took the wrong way. In retrospect giving all my school stuff away like shirts and jackets, making jokes about I bequeath my markers and supplies to other teachers... yea I suppose those are some red flags. I swear I was not planning on killing myself, it was really just my sense of humor. The principal got wind of this, and got the guidance counselor and a couple other teachers to sit down at a "meeting" with me and was like you ARE going to a therapist. They had already called some behavioral center and made me make an appointment and go. So I did what they told me to do. I guess the therapist was competent... I was diagnosed with depression. I pretty much told the therapist I needed a good lawyer more than therapy.

The other therapist (a few months later) was one I found at a local health department. I went in there trying to get my ex signed up into some therapy and ended up in therapy myself. My ex refused to go there, but I was like oh why not, people say I need therapy and insurance will pay for it here at the local health dept. This therapist seriously did whip out a manual the first time I was there. When I said "I was smarter than the therapist" in this case I really was not joking too much. This was a health dept. therapist who didn't even have a degree in psychology... it was a Masters in social work. I kid you not, after referring to the manual I was diagnosed with something like anxiety and situational depression. As I mentioned, the therapy was more about goal setting and seeing if I had done the things I needed to do. We became more friends than anything else. We would just chitchat and oftentimes I would turn it around and would be like "so how are YOU doing"? and I would offer advice and insight about things going on in her life. I continued going for so long because it was nice to have somebody to talk to about stuff. My ex kept me pretty isolated so

Maybe somebody who knew what they were doing would be more helpful.

 

[jevs]

I have seen 2 different therapists. The first one was like a one time thing because work MADE me go. After I had already put in my notice that I would not be returning the next school year, I made some comments and jokes that some people took the wrong way. In retrospect giving all my school stuff away like shirts and jackets, making jokes about I bequeath my markers and supplies to other teachers... yea I suppose those are some red flags. I swear I was not planning on killing myself, it was really just my sense of humor. The principal got wind of this, and got the guidance counselor and a couple other teachers to sit down at a "meeting" with me and was like you ARE going to a therapist. They had already called some behavioral center and made me make an appointment and go. So I did what they told me to do. I guess the therapist was competent... I was diagnosed with depression. I pretty much told the therapist I needed a good lawyer more than therapy.

The other therapist (a few months later) was one I found at a local health department. I went in there trying to get my ex signed up into some therapy and ended up in therapy myself. My ex refused to go there, but I was like oh why not, people say I need therapy and insurance will pay for it here at the local health dept. This therapist seriously did whip out a manual the first time I was there. When I said "I was smarter than the therapist" in this case I really was not joking too much. This was a health dept. therapist who didn't even have a degree in psychology... it was a Masters in social work. I kid you not, after referring to the manual I was diagnosed with something like anxiety and situational depression. As I mentioned, the therapy was more about goal setting and seeing if I had done the things I needed to do. We became more friends than anything else. We would just chitchat and oftentimes I would turn it around and would be like "so how are YOU doing"? and I would offer advice and insight about things going on in her life. I continued going for so long because it was nice to have somebody to talk to about stuff. My ex kept me pretty isolated so

Maybe somebody who knew what they were doing would be more helpful.

If you're so much smarter then why don't you know there are differences between a therapist and a psychologist?

I feel sorry for the posters who have taken the time to respond with their own expertise and experiences on your threads. Your stories become more unbelievable every time you post.

 

[kaytieeldr]

MSW is qualified to do counseling.
With zero training in psychology, counseling, etc, but based on everything you've posted, those diagnoses are entirely reasonable - but probably incomplete.
Not every therapist is right for every patient or situation. It's kind of surprising you give up on therapy after, effectively, one situation - but that you do everything possible to be in a romantic relationship.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have seen 2 different therapists. The first one was like a one time thing because work MADE me go. After I had already put in my notice that I would not be returning the next school year, I made some comments and jokes that some people took the wrong way. In retrospect giving all my school stuff away like shirts and jackets, making jokes about I bequeath my markers and supplies to other teachers... yea I suppose those are some red flags. I swear I was not planning on killing myself, it was really just my sense of humor. The principal got wind of this, and got the guidance counselor and a couple other teachers to sit down at a "meeting" with me and was like you ARE going to a therapist. They had already called some behavioral center and made me make an appointment and go. So I did what they told me to do. I guess the therapist was competent... I was diagnosed with depression. I pretty much told the therapist I needed a good lawyer more than therapy.

The other therapist (a few months later) was one I found at a local health department. I went in there trying to get my ex signed up into some therapy and ended up in therapy myself. My ex refused to go there, but I was like oh why not, people say I need therapy and insurance will pay for it here at the local health dept. This therapist seriously did whip out a manual the first time I was there. When I said "I was smarter than the therapist" in this case I really was not joking too much. This was a health dept. therapist who didn't even have a degree in psychology... it was a Masters in social work. I kid you not, after referring to the manual I was diagnosed with something like anxiety and situational depression. As I mentioned, the therapy was more about goal setting and seeing if I had done the things I needed to do. We became more friends than anything else. We would just chitchat and oftentimes I would turn it around and would be like "so how are YOU doing"? and I would offer advice and insight about things going on in her life. I continued going for so long because it was nice to have somebody to talk to about stuff. My ex kept me pretty isolated so

Maybe somebody who knew what they were doing would be more helpful.

I give up.