State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[TinkerBelle_325]

It's the other way around, a pay per FP system will take away people from the VIP tours. There have been more and more guests using the VIP tours, making it not as VIP anymore as it once was. I guess for most people a VIP guide is just a walking FP anyway. This system is ideal for people who would like to use VIP guides but think it's too expensive or only want premium access for a handful of rides.
This system will make more premium guests happy, and make the VIP tours more exclusive again.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was implemented in the US that the price of VIP tours goes up.

Yeah I’m going to call a bit of BS on this one. This board has approx 580,000 members. Many of those members are relative newbies, but for ease of argument let’s assume all are experts.

2019 attendance at MK alone was 20,000,000 visitors. The other parks had numbers in the 12,000,000 to 14,000,000 mark. Let’s assume some of those are park hoppers. Maybe 25%? So approx 40,000,000 visitors to the parks in 2019.

We Disney veterans and experts likely represent about 1-2% of the people that visit Walt Disney World in a normal year. Have I seen more people on these boards inquiring about and writing reviews of VIP tours? Sure. But I seriously doubt that there has been a sizeable increase in guests willing to drop between $3000 - $5600 on a SINGLE DAY not including food, souvenirs and park admission.

If we are the 1% of super Disney Fans. I’d argue that less than 5% of our membership shells out for VIP tours. Are there other demographics outside our membership here that use VIP tours? Absolutely. But I seriously doubt more than 1% of the entire annual visitors per year (400,000 or so people) use VIP touring.

400,000 divided by 10 (maximum group for VIP tour), divided by 365 = approx 100 VIP tours per day. Has anyone ever seen than many plaid VIP guides walking around the parks on a normal day? I sure haven't….

 

[cakebaker]

I guess Disney isn’t worried about alligators in the waters unless you are staying at a Deluxe Resort. Mold could be even scarier…
View attachment 588474

The FB page I got this from had more pics and there was mold. I can promise this, if we see mold in our cabin, they will be moving us. My daughters are highly allergic and asthmatic and it won’t be put up with. It was a FW fans page so of course the post was deleted. I guess if you don’t talk about it, it’s not there.

 

[Karin1984]

When and why did they stop doing this? We've noticed over the last couple years that we never got handed one of those cards on a lanyard any more. We also noticed last year that whatever the posted wait time was you knocked 25% off and it was very close. Why would they not want to be as accurate as possible? I would think adding a "buffer" to the estimate would cause more grumbling.

Not necessarily. Possible options: People who pass on the queue are happy because they think 'at least I am not an idiot to get in that long line', and people in the queue think 'hey! The line is much shorter than predicted, lucky us!'

 

[Karin1984]

Yeah I’m going to call a bit of BS on this one. This board has approx 580,000 members. Many of those members are relative newbies, but for ease of argument let’s assume all are experts.

2019 attendance at MK alone was 20,000,000 visitors. The other parks had numbers in the 12,000,000 to 14,000,000 mark. Let’s assume some of those are park hoppers. Maybe 25%? So approx 40,000,000 visitors to the parks in 2019.

We Disney veterans and experts likely represent about 1-2% of the people that visit Walt Disney World in a normal year. Have I seen more people on these boards inquiring about and writing reviews of VIP tours? Sure. But I seriously doubt that there has been a sizeable increase in guests willing to drop between $3000 - $5600 on a SINGLE DAY not including food, souvenirs and park admission.

If we are the 1% of super Disney Fans. I’d argue that less than 5% of our membership shells out for VIP tours. Are there other demographics outside our membership here that use VIP tours? Absolutely. But I seriously doubt more than 1% of the entire annual visitors per year (400,000 or so people) use VIP touring.

400,000 divided by 10 (maximum group for VIP tour), divided by 365 = approx 100 VIP tours per day. Has anyone ever seen than many plaid VIP guides walking around the parks on a normal day? I sure haven't….

I think I once read a report on this board from a seasoned VIP tour taker who said that there are about 80 VIP tours per day. I only don't fully remember if that was WDW or DL, I am leaning DL, but I have to pass on that one.

*Edit* found it, it was indeed DL: https://www.disboards.com/threads/questions-about-vip-tour-entertainment.3677833/#post-59114036
40 - 80 tours per day at DL in 2018. In 2012 it was about 30 tours per day.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I think I once read a report on this board from a seasoned VIP tour taker who said that there are about 80 VIP tours per day. I only don't fully remember if that was WDW or DL, I am leaning DL, but I have to pass on that one.

Fair enough. Though DL has a lot more celebrity attendees and that could make up a good number of those tours. Even if it is 80 - 100 VIP tours per day, with a 10 guest per tour maximum. That is only 800 - 1000 guests per day….in a resort that has normal attendance of 100,000 - 150,000 guests per day.

Even if the number of tours doubled to 160 - 200, that is still only 1600 - 2000 guests. Again, a literal drop in the bucket in the view of overall attendance.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I'm not saying you're wrong because I have never and will never take a VIP tour but what kind of psychopaths pay over $400 per day per person just for fast passes?

Not to mention it’s MUCH more than $400 per person per day lol. VIP tours range from $425-$800 per hour with a 7 hour minimum. So the range is $3000-$5600. For a family of four that is $750-$1400 per person for 1 day of VIP “FastPasses” via touring.

 

[Karin1984]

Fair enough. Though DL has a lot more celebrity attendees and that could make up a good number of those tours. Even if it is 80 - 100 VIP tours per day, with a 10 guest per tour maximum. That is only 800 - 1000 guests per day….in a resort that has normal attendance of 100,000 - 150,000 guests per day.

Even if the number of tours doubled to 160 - 200, that is still only 1600 - 2000 guests. Again, a literal drop in the bucket in the view of overall attendance.

True, but it takes also at least 160-200 CMs.
The bigger that group, the harder it is on quality control. Good staff is hard to come by. Especially now.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

True, but it takes also at least 160-200 CMs.
The bigger that group, the harder it is on quality control. Good staff is hard to come by. Especially now.

I agree. I guess what I’m saying is that this board isn’t always representative of the “normal” Disney guest. The idea that VIP tours are somehow on this massive uptick, I think, is quite unlikely.

 

[anomamatt]

But I seriously doubt that there has been a sizeable increase in guests willing to drop between $3000 - $5600 on a SINGLE DAY not including food, souvenirs and park admission.

Since they restarted offering them, VIP tours are booked within minutes at 60 days out. The waitlists even fill up. This never happened pre-covid.

Signature servies (and guides alike) have said they have never seen anything like it. Of course, they are trying to get more VIP guide CMs, but that isn't an easy task.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Since they restarted offering them, VIP tours are booked within minutes at 60 days out. The waitlists even fill up. This never happened pre-covid.

Signature servies (and guides alike) have said they have never seen anything like it. Of course, they are trying to get more VIP guide CMs, but that isn't an easy task.

And as I said, if pre-Covid estimates of VIP tours at DL was 40-80 per day, and we assume on the high end that WDW is 80-100 per day, even if WDW doubled that number to 160-200 tours per day… that still only represents 1600-2000 guests per day out of 100,000-150,000. That means VIP touring represents an insanely small % of guests.

 

[cjsmom5]

What would be the best email address to use? I’m not expecting anything other than a canned response. But it would be nice if I could get my concerns (shared by many) on the radar screen of someone who might actually care, and might actually have some ability to reach the relevant decision makers.

This is where I sent mine ...
wdw,guest.communications@disneyworld.com

I simply told them I wanted to share my perspective with them regarding a paid Fast Pass system now that one had been put in place in Paris. I also noted the negative criticism regarding the uncertainty and how I felt it reflected on their brand. I expect a "form letter" response but after going once and often twice a year since 1998 I thought they should know how I felt.

 

[anomamatt]

And as I said, if pre-Covid estimates of VIP tours at DL was 40-80 per day, and we assume on the high end that WDW is 80-100 per day, even if WDW doubled that number to 160-200 tours per day… that still only represents 1600-2000 guests per day out of 100,000-150,000. That means VIP touring represents an insanely small % of guests.

Look at what I quoted.

You've said several times that you don't think demand for VIP tours has increased. It has. And rather dramatically.

Of course 100 tours a day is a small fraction of total guests. Is anyone claiming otherwise?

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Look at what I quoted.

You've said several times that you don't think demand for VIP tours has increased. It has. And rather dramatically.

Of course 100 tours a day is a small fraction of total guests. Is anyone claiming otherwise?

Actually, what I originally disputed was the idea that Disney won’t bother with paid FastPass because of the supposed increase in VIP touring.

Which is why I have repeatedly pointed out that the population of guests that use VIP touring, even if demand has increased, is absolutely nothing compared to the population of guests that traditionally used FastPass+ and would be willing to pay for a “pay per ride” system.

 

[cjsmom5]

Since they restarted offering them, VIP tours are booked within minutes at 60 days out. The waitlists even fill up. This never happened pre-covid.

Signature servies (and guides alike) have said they have never seen anything like it. Of course, they are trying to get more VIP guide CMs, but that isn't an easy task.

I am sure it is not. We have been fortunate to have one of the VIP tour guides - due to t he person we were traveling with ... it is a pretty incredible experience ... we did all four parks in one day .... all rides we wanted to do ... etc. These days people are paying for those VIP guides - even for one day. It will be interesting to see how long the popularity lasts. That said, I see WDW moving in the direction of charging more and becoming more "exclusive" instead of trying to be affordable. I could be wrong but the bottomline is much more of a motivating factor. Time will tell how long the "demand" for this type of vacation will remain high - and where the financial line is at ... where people look for other options.

 

[anomamatt]

Actually, what I originally disputed was the idea that Disney won’t bother with paid FastPass because of the supposed increase in VIP touring.

I agree with you there.

But that said, there has been a very large increase in demand for VIP tours. They are turning people away (every single day) from paying $4K a day (or more). It'll take them a while to find enough of the right CMs, but you can bet they will increase the number of tours available.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

I agree with you there.

But that said, there has been a very large increase in demand for VIP tours. They are turning people away (every single day) from paying $4K a day. It'll take them a while to find enough of the right CMs, but you can bet they will increase the number of tours available.

And I can agree with you there. If they can hire more VIP tour guides they will absolutely offer more VIP tours. But in my opinion the VIP touring population and the “would pay for FastPass” population is like comparing apples and oranges. That’s what I’ve been getting at.

I don’t see people bailing on VIP touring if Disney comes out with paid FastPasses. Anyone that has enough disposable income to drop $4000 on a single tour isn’t going to be phased by paying for “skip the line” passes.

 

[cjsmom5]

And I can agree with you there. If they can hire more VIP tour guides they will absolutely offer more VIP tours. But in my opinion the VIP touring population and the “would pay for FastPass” population is like comparing apples and oranges. That’s what I’ve been getting at.

I don’t see people bailing on VIP touring if Disney comes out with paid FastPasses. Anyone that has enough disposable income to drop $4000 on a single tour isn’t going to be phased by paying for “skip the line” passes.

I had a friend do these during the highest rate period and it was way more than that. They scheduled 4 days but after 2 days said they had done everything., They were very comfortable paying for one for 9 hours a day. Unfortunately we do not share the ability to do that -- but would be nice!

 

[Karin1984]

I agree. I guess what I’m saying is that this board isn’t always representative of the “normal” Disney guest. The idea that VIP tours are somehow on this massive uptick, I think, is quite unlikely.

Going by that the numbers about DL are correct, 30 in 2012 per day to 80 in 2018. That is an average increase of 18% per year. Massive might be too strong, but it is definitely impressive. And I think it is higher than Disney can handle CM-wise.

I agree that this is not about the people on this board. As you said there are many more people outside this board, who are willing to pay for either FP or VIP.

 

[Jrb1979]

I do wonder if part of the reason that VIP tour sales have gone up is due to lack of FP right now.

 

[finedice]

That said, I see WDW moving in the direction of charging more and becoming more "exclusive" instead of trying to be affordable.

There some polls and other evidence out there that show demand is pretty low among those in that "exclusive" income bracket. The highest demand is among those that cannot really afford Disney. I highly doubt Disney will abandon the middle class. But they will try to push us to the brink!