State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[Buddy40]

The more Disney copies Universal, I have to ask myself why not change our vacation priorities with a stay at Universal with a day or two at WDW instead of the other way around. I really do believe, as many pp on Disboards have expressed, that with many of these and other more recent changes (elimination of DME, EMH, and Fastpass+, added resort parking fees, no nighttime parade/show, etc) that Disney has ceded discriminators to Universal and SeaWorld in favor of increased charges/guest spending. As much as I have enjoyed WDW in the past, I don't see that it will be my primary Orlando destination in the future. I expect that while WDW will continue to see decent revenue growth, it will continue to experience declining market share in terms of guest attendance. Eventually, they will reach a tipping point where they can't increase per guest spending to compensate for declining attendance. But that's probably quite a ways off. Just enough for Darth Chapek to leave the company as a takeover target. Sorry to sound bitter. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Wandering Oaken]

A system that requires advanced intricate knowledge of the tricks and loopholes that only the most experienced users have figure out is a flawed system.

It's just like how billionaires can end up paying less in taxes than your average middle class wage earner.

So you're trying to tell me that because I was able to go into a system online, choose the rides I wanted to ride 60 days beforehand, hit the select button on those rides that somehow I "Beautiful Mind" gamed the system? Wow.

 

[cakebaker]

The more Disney copies Universal, I have to ask myself why not change our vacation priorities with a stay at Universal with a day or two at WDW instead of the other way around.

That only works if you enjoy Universal more than WDW and for many people, that isn't the case. It just doesn't work to say, hmmmph! I'll just go to Universal unless that's the kind of experience you want. They are vastly different. Disney rides out these things because in the end, people love what they sell even if they don't like the cost of it. Will it work forever? Who knows, but it's working right now.

 

[Wandering Oaken]

I know how to use it but I absolutely hate it. I am hoping they do go to more of a day of system. The amount of planning and making spreadsheets is what makes me not want to go often.

We know.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

A system that requires advanced intricate knowledge of the tricks and loopholes that only the most experienced users have figure out is a flawed system.

It's just like how billionaires can end up paying less in taxes than your average middle class wage earner.

You pick your 3 60 days ahead. It wasn’t that intricate. To get extras you did it right through the app. There wasn’t a secret formula. Some liked making their FP+ in the morning so they had more time to pick up additional ones. That’s not a loophole. Neither is refreshing. We made ours for the evening or midday and never had issues getting extras.

 

[jujubiee4]

Very easy to do Universal with included Express pass on the cheap. Get an annual pass (only ~$300) and use the annual pass hotel discount. They release the rooms with discount a few months ahead, and if you get in when they release the rooms they can be in the $250-300 range. With 4 ppl per room you are getting quite a perk. Universal values their pass holders.

I think you can get more bang for your buck at Universal but that depends on when you are going.

I'm hesitant to see their system come to Disney though. It will price out so many people I know who
i enjoy meeting up with at Disney.

 

[cakebaker]

A system that requires advanced intricate knowledge of the tricks and loopholes that only the most experienced users have figure out is a flawed system.

I must've been absent on the day they taught how to exploit FP+ for unintended purposes. We've used it since it first started and I know of no loopholes, just common sense strategies. I didn't spend hours and hours learning the system. It was simple to use. . The app practically held your hand through the process. So somebody please, clue me in. What are the cheats for FP+? And no, refreshing the screen to see if anything new pops up is not a cheat and it's not a loophole. I do it with resort reservations when I can't find what I want....it's just common sense to know that maybe somewhere among tens of thousands of people, somebody might have changed their minds and their selections went back into inventory.

 

[luv2cheer92]

I must've been absent on the day they taught how to exploit FP+ for unintended purposes. We've used it since it first started and I know of no loopholes, just common sense strategies. I didn't spend hours and hours learning the system. It was simple to use. . The app practically held your hand through the process. So somebody please, clue me in. What are the cheats for FP+? And no, refreshing the screen to see if anything new pops up is not a cheat and it's not a loophole. I do it with resort reservations when I can't find what I want....it's just common sense to know that maybe somewhere among tens of thousands of people, somebody might have changed their minds and their selections went back into inventory.

There was one loophole that I will admit that I used on my first solo trip in 2015, that loophole was then closed shortly after (Same Day FPs). But after that, all my recent trips, yep just refreshing. Nothing to it.

 

[TommyJK]

60 days out, on-site guests could book fastpasses. You get 3 per day at the same park.

Yea, that requires such intracate knowledge and really compares to the tax system as a whole. Totally see that.

Yes that in it's simplest form is how it works. But many people don't necessarily know the exact time the booking windows open, or necessarily that it's 60 days from the first day of your resort stay as opposed the 60 days from the park day, or the different ways to continually hunt and modify daily, or to continually "pound the app" (and the fact that there is an actual hashtag for it) or to the special daily time drops for those in the know.

So I stand by my assessment. It's a broken system that is to the advantage of the most studied/knowledgable and the only people who think it's fine are the ones who know how to game every element that the average person doesn't know about to get ahead, similar to the tax system.

 

[Loro]

The only problem with that is if we for a family of 4 my husband and i don't want to go just the kids.
We both have status at Hyatt Hilton and Marriott so we get suite upgrades and free breakfasts/rooms.
We fall into that niche. So we know no matter what we pay 260-300-400 for the kids to get express
pass unlimited or the room which coincidentally is usually the same costs. Ironically my husband balks
at paying that at Universal but won't blink an eye if it comes to that for Disney.

I think you can get more bang for your buck at Universal but that depends on when you are going.

I don't want to see their system come to Disney though. It will price out so many people I know who
i enjoy meeting up with at Disney.

If you're using status to stay off property and don't want to have EPs for yourself than do you. I was replying since you said it was really expensive to get the express pass hotels at Uni and I gave a workaround for that to show how it isn't.

Example trip for us: Land in morning at MCO, check-in to Uni Deluxe with AP discount for 2 nights at $300/nt., get 3 days of Express Pass included (it works for days of check-in through check-out). Then we move over to DVC or deluxe on discount for the rest of our trip which is 2x as expensive with no express pass or annual pass available currently. I get preferring Disney, we do too, but without FP+ or something else close to it Disney is charging way more for way less perks. Hence why most in the know (myself included) believe some kind of FP will be included with Deluxe stays at a minimum at WDW. They need it to justify the price.

 

[jujubiee4]

If they are heading to a more pay for play with rides are they going to lower the ticket prices
for people who don't ride anything? My grandparents are getting up there in age and last
time we were there didn't ride ANYTHING. They love to look around though and enjoy the
"ambiance". lol

 

[Karin1984]

You pick your 3 60 days ahead. It wasn’t that intricate. To get extras you did it right through the app. There wasn’t a secret formula. Some liked making their FP+ in the morning so they had more time to pick up additional ones. That’s not a loophole. Neither is refreshing. We made ours for the evening or midday and never had issues getting extras.

I do not fully agree. There were definitely 'better' choices to make. Knowing which rides sell out quickly, to make three in the morning to have extra options in the afternoon. It might not have been a loophole, but it was definitely a trick and people with knowledge of the parks and rides and were more 'in the know' definitely had some advantages over people who are on a first trip . FP+ had a learning curve.

 

[cakebaker]

But many people don't necessarily know the exact time the booking windows open, or necessarily that it's 60 days from the first day of your resort stay as opposed the 60 days from the park day, or the different ways to continually hunt and modify daily, or to continually "pound the app" (and the fact that there is an actual hashtag for it) or to the special daily time drops for those in the know.

People who don't bother to learn the basics does not a flawed system make and those that do aren't cheating, gaming or making use of loopholes. You can call it pounding the app and make it sound like some super secret hack, but it's just refreshing a screen to see if availability pops up. We never hunted and modified- it wasn't neccesary- but those again, are not hacks or loopholes. One could be blissfully unaware of any great strategies and still use the system effectively.

Seriously, because some people don't even take a few minutes to figure out when they can and should book, it's a flawed system? Those people aren't going to be effective with any system they come up with.

 

[cakebaker]

I do not fully agree. There were definitely 'better' choices to make. Knowing which rides sell out quickly, to make three in the morning to have extra options in the afternoon. It might not have been a loophole, but it was definitely a trick and people with knowledge of the parks and rides and were more 'in the know' definitely had some advantages over people who are on a first trip . FP+ had a learning curve.

Not a trick. No matter what, those who have experience with anything are going to fare better than those who don't. I guess because I know where every bathroom is in every park, I'm somehow "in the know" and gaming the system because someone else will get lost trying to find one.

 

[jujubiee4]

If you're using status to stay off property and don't want to have EPs for yourself than do you. I was replying since you said it was really expensive to get the express pass hotels at Uni and I gave a workaround for that to show how it isn't.

Example trip for us: Land in morning at MCO, check-in to Uni Deluxe with AP discount for 2 nights at $300/nt., get 3 days of Express Pass included (it works for days of check-in through check-out). Then we move over to DVC or deluxe on discount for the rest of our trip which is 2x as expensive with no express pass or annual pass available currently. I get preferring Disney, we do too, but without FP+ or something else close to it Disney is charging way more for way less perks. Hence why most in the know (myself included) believe some kind of FP will be included with Deluxe stays at a minimum at WDW. They need it to justify the price.

Thank you for this. Im going to keep a look out for AP rates. I keep checking for holiday season and no
dice yet. If that room can get knocked down to 300 I will bite.

***sorry to derail thread*** back to more ways of Disney money hemorrhaging

 

[Loro]

I do not fully agree. There were definitely 'better' choices to make. Knowing which rides sell out quickly, to make three in the morning to have extra options in the afternoon. It might not have been a loophole, but it was definitely a trick and people with knowledge of the parks and rides and were more 'in the know' definitely had some advantages over people who are on a first trip . FP+ had a learning curve.

How is that a trick? Just reading through the FP+ instructions once would tell anyone anything they would need to know to get a good amount out of it and that they can get more after the initial 3. If someone still wanted to schedule their advance FPs for the evening after reading they can get more otherwise then that's on them.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Not sure about others, but MDE and the Park Pass Reservation page are certainly acting a bit glitchy for me at the moment. No full crashes lol. But taking forever for images to load, pages to load. And my wifi is very stable and fast.

 

[monstermash23]

Yes that in it's simplest form is how it works. But many people don't necessarily know the exact time the booking windows open, or necessarily that it's 60 days from the first day of your resort stay as opposed the 60 days from the park day, or the different ways to continually hunt and modify daily, or to continually "pound the app" (and the fact that there is an actual hashtag for it) or to the special daily time drops for those in the know.

So I stand by my assessment. It's a broken system that is to the advantage of the most studied/knowledgable and the only people who think it's fine are the ones who know how to game every element that the average person doesn't know about to get ahead, similar to the tax system.

Do those same people also not know dining needs to be made far in advance?

Do they need to know that park reservations need to be made?

Do they know the limitations and nuances of Park hopping now? Or in the past?

What about rope drop procedures to gain access to popular rides with shorter times?

Lol you are on a Disney forum so I’m assuming you’ve already been down all these rabbit holes. But there are far more complicated systems that you NEED to know before even entering the park. The fastpass system, imo was relatively easy to understand in comparison. Because we are talking about a fastpass ride reservation system, where you literally pick Space Mountain 60 days out at a specific time. And then you ride it when you get there. And you are comparing that to the most complicated tax system in the world as if everyone here who understand the fastpass concept is some rocket scientist. I’ll take the compliment, but at the end of the day, this was a very ridiculous way to present your feeling about a system that CAN be complicated, but no where near as complicated as you are exxagerating it to be. But, to each their own I guess.

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

People who don't bother to learn the basics does not a flawed system make and those that do aren't cheating, gaming or making use of loopholes. You can call it pounding the app and make it sound like some super secret hack, but it's just refreshing a screen to see if availability pops up. We never hunted and modified- it wasn't neccesary- but those again, are not hacks or loopholes. One could be blissfully unaware of any great strategies and still use the system effectively.

Seriously, because some people don't even take a few minutes to figure out when they can and should book, it's a flawed system? Those people aren't going to be effective with any system they come up with.

I think that’s unfair. I’ve only been once with Fastpass+, am a computer wiz, and I tried refreshing every now and then and got nothing useful for our party. It wasn’t obvious, and what you were doing definitely falls under power user.

only reason we loved it was because we had 12 fast passes from DVC. Those were awesome.

 

[cakebaker]

Not sure about others, but MDE and the Park Pass Reservation page are certainly acting a bit glitchy for me at the moment. No full crashes lol. But taking forever for images to load, pages to load. And my wifi is very stable and fast.

Is it evil to say this is good news?